Turntable/Vinyl/2-channel Stereo/Vintage thread

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Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

I have a question, I'm not sure if it's going to make sense, but here goes:

I have these Wharfedale Denton 2 speakers

Driven by a Pioneer SA-506 amp

In addition to that, I also have a passive subwoofer that is driven by an Onkyo A-8000 (because I wanted a separate volume control for it)

It always seemed natural to me to pair the Wharfedale speakers with the Pioneer amp, because they're supposedly from roughly the same era. But lately I'm wondering if the Onkyo might simply be a better amp. I have no reason to think this apart from the idea that it might be more recent tech or that Onkyo as a brand sounds more exotic and upmarket than Pioneer to me. Which may or may not be a misguided notion.

They're currently placed in a piece of furniture that makes swapping them out for a listening test a bit complicated. Googling suggests (maybe) they were all relatively popular, good value for money affairs; nothing seems to particularly scream 'high end' to me.

I'm wondering if anyone has some opinions on whether swapping the two amplifiers could be either worth my time or ill advised or whatever.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2013 13:46

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# ¿ Apr 23, 2024 11:27

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

The faceplate of the Onkyo is made of brushed metal of some kind, but I get what you're saying.

I did a comparison a few years ago between that same Pioneer and a plastic-y 1999 Technics amp and while the Technics had a more neutral sound, it didn't really... sing... the way the Pioneer did. The Pioneer had some nice musically flattering coloration that works well with the Wharfedales.

If the Pioneer is out of spec, I wouldn't know. All I can say is that it sounds good to me. And maybe I should just go with that. I'd basically have to disassemble half the rack they're in to just switch the wires and I'm really not looking forward to that.

Thanks for confirming some of my gut feelings; I was just checking whether I was missing some "Obviously x is superior to y!"-stuff. If that's not the case, I might as well stop rocking the boat of the setup I'm actually pretty happy with.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2013 23:09

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

BitterAvatar posted:

I know very little about turntables, so this seemed like the place to ask.

My girlfriend has a vintage belt-driven turntable that attaches to a pre-amp that feeds into my modern stereo receiver. She bought it about 2-3 years ago from a shop who specifically repairs old equipment so I assume it's been set up properly. When I have been playing records on it recently I am getting mono output from the right channel, despite the turntable itself having the left-right (red-white) RCA cables. I'm assuming the records I am using are stereo since they are all very recently produced.

Is the mono output due to a mono cartridge or is there something else? Is there a way to check if the vinyl itself is mono/stereo? If it is a mono cartridge is there any problem using it with a stereo vinyl?

There is also a small knob on the arm (not the counterweight) that can be twisted from 0-3 in both directions. I have no idea what this is supposed to adjust.

Playing a mono record or playing with a mono cartridge (if such a thing even exists) should still give you equal output on the two channels.

What you're most likely dealing with is a contact that's oxidized or something. Easiest to check and most likely culprit will be the contacts beween the cartridge and the arm. Post a picture if you're not sure how to remove it.

The small knob is probably the anti-skating. I don't understand it very well either; not enough to start explaining it anyway, but at least that's a term you can google.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2013 16:48

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

jonathan posted:

I agree. I figured its out of place the least here though. Thanks for the gear recommendation.

I doesn't matter all that much, but For your listening pleasure: The quick audio questions megathread! would have been the place.

The bluetooth receiver you linked has an optical out, which allows you to circumvent the cheap digital to analog convertors used in most other bluetooth receivers. If bluetooth receivers don't sound fantastic and awesome, it's mostly that these days. And even then they sound good enough unless you're the type to call, say, modern 128kbps MP3s completely unlistenable.

I mean, if you start to do A/B comparisons with a wire connection, you'll probably notice slight differences, but in general use you wouldn't be aware of all that.

But you could maybe look for an amp with an optical in; that wouldn't be a bad thing to do.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2013 13:31

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

atomicthumbs posted:

anyone?

Do you need a DIN to DIN cable or are you actually looking for the DIN to RCA (output) adapter?

I've got one of the latter and I'd be willing to measure it through and whip up a pinout diagram so you can make your own.

# ¿ Dec 18, 2013 11:19

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

EDIT Pretty embarrasing to mess up in a post like this, but I had all my DIN pin numbers reversed, due to a comment on the Russian website. :siren:

I've fixed the pictures :siren:

Good thing I doublechecked with reality. Let's hope athomicthumbs sees this edit then!

Sorry for the doublepost, but atomicthumbs might not see an edit in the previous post.

Sourced from pinout.ru and Tom Baldwin

No personal experience with this vendor, but looks allright:
180� 5 Pin Male DIN Connector
Female RCA Connector Black
Female RCA Connector Red

eddiewalker posted:

Won't work. MIDI is wired 1:1, but hifi cables are crossed over. (Connectors are wired "send" and "return" from their own perspective.)

Depending on how you look at it, MIDI cables are crossed over, connecting pin 4 to pin 5 and vice versa, while DIN audio cables connect straight, ie pin 4 to 4, 5 to 5 etc. I don't know if there are conventions about how you should look at this, but a network crossover cable is also one that mixes up pin numbers.

Anyway, MIDI cables don't use pin 1 and pin 3, so premade cables probably don't have the 5 leads required to make a DIN audio cable from them.

Flipperwaldt fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Dec 18, 2013

# ¿ Dec 18, 2013 15:56

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

atomicthumbs posted:

Thanks a lot, this is really helpful! The local electronic store sells 5-pin DIN connectors so I can wire up my own.

Now I just need to find a 4-pin DIN-to-DIN cable or connector to connect the preamp and the power amp

(or just shove some hookup wire into the relevant bits to test it)

I can't really find a lot about 4 pin DIN being used to transport stereo audio and then I got the idea that it might be 4 pin XLR perhaps. These would have the pairs of pins offset from each other a bit (ie the pins wouldn't be set up in a symmetric way). But you'd end up in propietary hell with that as well anyway.

But from what I was able to gather, on a like for like, male to male cable, chances are good it's pin 1 to pin 1, 2 to 2 and so on for either anyway, most likely.

As long as you haven't got some sort of weird situation where the preamp is supposed to be powered from that same cable or something, careful experimenting should do no harm.

# ¿ Dec 26, 2013 11:49

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

Screw loose, check wire-to-contact connection integrity, superglue. You've got nothing to lose at this point.

# ¿ Dec 31, 2013 00:21

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

Isn't there some decent Onkyo stuff out there as well? I'm very happy with mine, but I sort of lucked out, because I wouldn't know how to separate the good from the bad.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2014 21:21

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

My receiver doesn't get all that hot, but enough to make the turntable leave four circular marks on the top after a few months. Could not get those marks off without some white spirit.

I recommend checking whether the turntable's feet are rubbery and if they are, cut up some paper to lay underneath them.

# ¿ Feb 27, 2014 20:48

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

TomR posted:

My old radio has an RCA jack that I assume is for a turntable. I measured 1 or so volts AC across it though. I'm afraid to try and plug anything into it to see if I can use an external source with it. Any ideas?

Not a single indication whether it's even an input or an output? A symbol?

If it's an input, the radio needs a button for choosing between playing radio or input, right? Find something like that?

I've had portable radios with outputs to record from them to tape, though that were DIN plugs.

# ¿ May 25, 2014 00:01

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

The Aux1/Phono switch is a bit bizarre, but a separate Tape Monitor switch/button isn't that uncommon and in fact necessary when the source selection knob also decides what goes to the tape outs.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2014 18:02

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

I don't think the use of receiver in the OP specifically and intentionally implies an amp with a built in AM/FM receiver. Some people use the words interchangeably, is all I think is happening.

# ¿ Sep 22, 2014 18:09

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

The SL1210 also has an improved pitch slider. The SL1200's one would get inaccurate around the center dent after intensive use for DJ'ing.

Those tables still have slightly inflated prices because they are iconic among DJs. My dad has a nice quartz controlled, direct drive Technics turntable without pitch control, that is otherwise pretty much the same thing, with the same arm and everything and I just can't remember the model number :sigh:

# ¿ Sep 25, 2014 10:19

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

Electric Bugaloo posted:

It's more than the iconic status among DJs- although that's probably most of it. HiFi enthusiasts have been in love with the 1200 for decades.

Well, it's a more than decent turntable.

My point was going to be that something like an SL-Q202 was going to be a chunk cheaper because there weren't any DJs lusting after it, but it's moot, because I'm not seeing a single one on Ebay, never mind a black one.

It's the quartz clocked version of the SL-D202, obviating the need for any form of manual pitch control. Excellent thing and I'll hang on to it with my dear life once my father finally lets go of it. He's wavering.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2014 00:13

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

Oh god

# ¿ Apr 12, 2015 16:50

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

Ugh, finally decided I can't just let a Technics SL-Q202 sit there for �50 and apparently today is a national holiday here so the store is closed :choco:

# ¿ May 14, 2015 16:30

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

I have Yamaha's msp 5 studios, which supposedly are the successors to the smaller versions of the supposed spiritual successors of the ns10s. That's about as close as I get.

I like them very much and would recommend the poo poo out of them at their price point.

# ¿ May 14, 2015 17:22

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

NihilismNow posted:

Wow the feast of the Ascension is a national holiday somewhere else?

Belgium duh. Is it one in the Netherlands?

# ¿ May 14, 2015 17:59

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

Electric Bugaloo posted:

I know this isn't recording gear chat, but would you happen to know what the relative differences between the MSP and HS series are?

Not personally, but I just came across this, which would seem to give an idea of how Yamaha themselves see it.

e: in part, at least

# ¿ May 14, 2015 21:24

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

evobatman posted:

At least that seems to be working fine, even though I hardly even know what it's supposed to be used for.

It's basically hardware buttons/knobs/faders to control software buttons/knobs/faders on screen. Typically you'd use this with a digital audio workstation (Cubase, Ableton Live,...) to control the software mixer, software synthesizers and effects in a more hands on fashion. Using it for dj'ing with Traktor and software like that is also an option. It will work with anything that can receive midi signals. There are non-audio applications as well. This model is a couple of years old but far from obsolete. If you have no use for it, it'll be worth selling it on.

# ¿ May 21, 2015 19:45

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

firebad57 posted:

b.) Is this practical? I.e. Is it a terrible mistake to try to use the same bookshelf speakers as stereo speakers for a hi-fi and as monitors for a home recording setup? I'm not TOO terribly concerned about the BEST POSSIBLE MONITORS for recording, just something usable.

I would go the other way round and buy affordable studio monitors and use them for hi-fi as well. Mixing on speakers tuned for a pleasing sound is an excercise in futility.

It depends a bit on how tight your budget really is. There are some studio monitors out there with a price comparable to the Pioneers, but I couldn't tell you how good or bad they are. But you could read up on those. If you can stretch up to, say, $300, you're going to find stuff that is leaps and bounds better for home recording. Like, decent enough.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2015 22:40

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

firebad57 posted:

Any thoughts on whether listening to vinyl on studio monitors would negatively impact the experience?

I listened to everything on the same bookshelf speakers for twenty years. After switching over to studio monitors, the major difference I notice is that there are records that suddenly lack bass. Simply because it was never in the record. Where the bookshelf speakers were made to add a bit of flab to whatever came through them, the monitors show me what's there.

Whether you think something like that is a negative impact depends on your expectations. I like it. Other than that, it won't be a lot different.

When mixing though. If everything comes out as roughly having the same amount of bass added by the speakers, you're going to have no idea what's happening on that front in the actual mix. You're not going to add bass where it's needed, sending out tinny mixes, or just not notice other problems in that frequency band. And that's maybe not even the only frequency band that might be -intentionally- colored in some way on bookshelf speakers.

I really don't know if all this is as true in the price bracket you are looking into (ie if the monitors at that price are actually really a lot more accurate), but as a general principle it is fair.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2015 23:58

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

surivdaoreht posted:

The thing I'm most confused by is; how the gently caress am I getting some sound from both speakers if I only have one selected.

The buttons are for switching between two pairs of speakers, not for either left or right (what would be the point of that?).

# ¿ Mar 1, 2016 01:29

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

surivdaoreht posted:

Does that mean if I attempt to turn on the second pair and they aren't hooked up, the first set will turn off? opens the circuit I guess?

Doesn't open the circuit, since they would be in parallel, not series. Typically, anyway. I don't know for your amp specifically, but my amp (and any other I've owned) allows me to depress both buttons with one pair of speakers connected and that has no consequences. If a second pair of speakers was connected, having them both playing at the same time would do things to the impedance, maybe it's a built in protection against unintended consequences to switch off both, idk. Although I'd expect it just not to allow you to have both buttons depressed at the same time if that were really the issue. So, no idea why that would happen for you.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2016 02:21

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

BigFactory posted:

It looks like it's on a rickety tower of trash!

It's on top of another turntable, hth.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2016 21:24

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

odiv posted:

Wouldn't there be a bit of a latency from the Bluetooth?

Yes. Worst case between a quarter and half a second. And good luck finding actual numbers before you buy.

# ¿ May 23, 2016 19:04

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

I've had two mid-eighties CD players and never noticed anything of the kind. I guess that's anecdotal as gently caress, apart from the fact that they certainly weren't incapable of making good DACs early on. It sounds pretty implausable to me that a DAC of that era would be so bad you'd actually notice, but :shrug:

# ¿ Jan 19, 2017 15:59

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

BANME.sh posted:

how tracks at the end of a CD would sound different than those at the beginning.

I'm not sure that was necessarily intentionally implied in what they said.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2017 16:35

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

Qwijib0 posted:

In most of the receivers that old that I've seen, the tuning indicator is attached to the knob by a wound string/pulley system. If that's loose the indicator wouldn't move.

I'm thinking they mean the indicator to the right of the signal quality indicator as opposed to the actual tuning dial above it.

# ¿ Feb 5, 2017 08:44

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

The sound will also arrive at the bluetooth speakers a very noticable couple of hundred of milliseconds later than at the regularly connected speakers and on the tape out the sound won't respond to the amplifier's volume control.

As a BT receiver, fair enough.

# ¿ Jun 6, 2017 14:56

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

wa27 posted:

I don't think you'd want one volume control for all rooms anyway. Bluetooth speakers have their own volume controls.

If the point is to play music to multiple rooms simultaneously, I'd disagree that a global control of sorts is superfluous.

Anyway, it might not be a universal downside, but it's another aspect/feature of the vintage 70s amp that simply gets bypassed, to the point that it's no more than a generic input selection box.

# ¿ Jun 6, 2017 16:23

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

It's not nuts to want a wireless multi-room setup. It's just bluetooth, it's implementation and the devices available that tend to make this an impractical shitshow, where reality divorces starkly from fantasy. Some theoretical other protocol might be more suited to one-to-many connections and scale better, but no one bothered to turn one in a broadly supported standard.

Market has decided it's pretty niche anyway, and ditches analog sources and even centralized playback entirely in things like the Chromecast Audio. In principle, all you could want in a multi-room music setup as long as you can let go of the vinyls and can find whatever music you want to play on the supported streaming apps, pretty much.

# ¿ Jun 6, 2017 18:18

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

Rec level master is a gain control. If anything is going to do double duty as headphone output level control, it would be that. Not saying it will.

# ¿ Nov 2, 2017 19:43

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

c0burn posted:

I have an auditechnica LP 60 which has a phono pre amp. How bad an idea is it just to connect to powered speakers rather than an amp to unpowered speakers?

There's nothing that makes that a bad idea, unless you wanted to use the amp as a hub to connect other devices. That would be the only added value.

# ¿ Nov 28, 2017 14:41

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

Jeza posted:

I would assume it's EQ -> Range -> Reverb just using common sense. You equalise to get the sound you want, modulate the range, then apply the reverb to the outcome.

I'd definitely put the dynamics expander before the equalizer. If you put the equalizer first, whatever you dial in on it will dramatically change what the expander does.

# ¿ Jun 9, 2018 13:21

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

Technics also made some quartz clocked direct drive turntables without the pitch slider.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2018 00:20

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

Tepid water and dishwashing liquid and a clean microfiber cloth. Just be careful to keep the labels dry.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2018 13:13

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

BigFactory posted:

None of those 90s mini systems are going to have a phono in. You should be looking for a 70s or 80s receiver.

They're trying to make it work with a suitcase type turntable with built-in speakers, where a headphone out is the best output available, so that's not really a consideration.

Edit: I'd go with a pair of budget studio monitors, but who knows about availability and pricing there, never mind maybe the desire for radio/cd.

Flipperwaldt fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Dec 30, 2018

# ¿ Dec 30, 2018 19:22

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# ¿ Apr 23, 2024 11:27

Flipperwaldt: Nov 11, 2011; Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?

DoctorGonzo posted:

I will conect the turntable to the Panasonic trough the rca

Yeah, that's obviously right, I'm sorry, I should have googled the model beforehand. Still no need for a dedicated phono in, the rca out is labeled line out.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2018 19:44

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