Turntable/Vinyl/2-channel Stereo/Vintage thread

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Inspect Your Gadgets > Turntable/Vinyl/2-channel Stereo/Vintage thread

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

TooLShack posted:

Finished a stand for my favorite gear, this is my second flex stand and this time I should have painted it but was too lazy.

Is that a pioneer sa-7800 second up on the right. Looks like mine. gorgeous, great sounding amp.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2014 16:30

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# ¿ Apr 16, 2024 21:07

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

Just upgraded from my old 70's integrated:

To some 90s (I think) separates:

I think I hosed up my epi 400 towers with the new amp, sadly. I had something wrong and a terrible howl came from the speakers, after which all the treble was gone. Got my 70's Polk monitor 7a's hooked up now and they still sound fantastic but it looks like a have a pandemic speaker repair project on my hands with the Epi towers :sweatdrop:

large hands fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Apr 5, 2020

# ¿ Apr 5, 2020 22:59

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

polyester concept posted:

Love me some 70s aesthetic but it’s hard to go wrong with Sony ES

Is the volume knob motorized?

Yeah, we're sad to lose the cool silverface amp with the blue *fluorscan* meter and huge knobs and levers in the livingroom where it felt like a cool piece of furniture but I'll keep it for a backup/den stereo.

The preamp cost twice what the power amp did and weighs almost as much lol. It is indeed a motorized volume knob, wife freaked when it moved itself when she turned up the volume with the remote.

The polks have been in the garage for years and I was going to give them away, but hearing them again I think I'm gonna get some teak veneer and a refoam kit and hang onto them:

large hands fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Apr 6, 2020

# ¿ Apr 6, 2020 01:08

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

GnarlyCharlie4u posted:

Ugh I've lusted over an ES stack for quite some time. I can't ever find decent deals on ebay and they're nonexistent on craigslist. Excellent find.

Thanks, the n55 power amps seem like a good deal to me. 110w into 8ohms, bridgeable to 300w for a dual amp setup and go for around 200usd. I paid around twice that for the pre but it's a very nice one, I believe there are cheaper ES preamps out there.

# ¿ Apr 6, 2020 15:46

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

GnarlyCharlie4u posted:

Yeah but you got A REMOTE!

Turn up the volume? Oh, you must mean adjust the attenuator :smug:

# ¿ Apr 6, 2020 17:18

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

polyester concept posted:

Does increasing the attenuator reduce the volume then?

It actually does, in a way...

# ¿ Apr 6, 2020 17:44

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

Cojawfee posted:

So that attenuates the sound by that number of decibels or it sets it to be that many decibels?

Infinity=no sound, 0=maximum volume

# ¿ Apr 6, 2020 19:02

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

Local hi-fi shop is delivering so I replaced the busted om5e on the turntable.

Just going to listen to this album on repeat until this poo poo blows over.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2020 01:46

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

Ok Comboomer posted:

I feel like an Ortofon Blue is a good endgame cart for most people

Like, you’ll be plenty happy with an AT95e but a 2M Blue is an acceptable amount of flossing.

It’s being content with glenfidditch and then deciding at the last moment, “no you know what, I’m getting that bottle of blue label because I’m worth it”

Im really, really happy with it (and the phono stage in the new preamp). I figure when I upgrade from my pro-ject essential to a carbon or something I'll keep this cartridge.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2020 02:33

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

polyester concept posted:

Growing up in the 90s and into the 2000s, I had only seen Sony equipment that belonged in that latter category. I assumed they were just another crappy consumer brand, and it wasn’t until I got into hifi stuff much, much later that I realized they made some really good stuff.

I remember them being department store stereos, stuff I'd look down on while saving up for NAD gear, but from what I've read the ES stuff from that era is more like Denon or something?

# ¿ Apr 7, 2020 03:20

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

If any electronics guys in here are able to give me some guidance it would be a huge help. I opened up one of the Epi towers that I think I damaged while hooking up the new power amp the other day. Basically the speakers now sound like there's a blanket over them, no treble, muffled vocals

looks like the previous owner replaced the caps and resistors when he put new posts on.

I have access to a multimeter, and a tiny amp I could test individual drivers with but I have no idea what I should be looking for.

Just to be clear there are 8 drivers per speaker, 2 pointing in each direction:

large hands fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Apr 7, 2020

# ¿ Apr 7, 2020 18:43

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

Good haul from one of the local shops that is doing online shopping and pickup:

I'm such a sucker for 80s production and tango in the night is certainly a display of that.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2020 00:42

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

First few that caught my eye:

not expensive or rare I think but I was super happy to get this set of Island UK original Roxy Music albums

early first pressing of Before and After Science with the art prints (really need to get them framed)

my favourite Sun kil moon album in white

# ¿ Apr 15, 2020 19:41

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

KozmoNaut posted:

Not really super rare nor valuable, but my UK Bronze Records first press Ace of Spades. Mostly because it's probably my favorite album ever, and I paid less than $5 for it, from a bargain bin because the cover is really ratty and worn. The LP itself is in excellent condition.

Nice! I'd love to have that

# ¿ Apr 15, 2020 19:58

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

heresies, Bose 901, Polk monitor 7 or 10 series are all nice vintage speakers that double as end tables

# ¿ Apr 30, 2020 00:50

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

I don't know anything about modern Bose stuff except that it seems like a bit of a scam but a buddy has a pair of old 901s and they're beautiful and (I think) sound amazing.

They're definitely unusual, I know they use the special equalizer thing, I'd forgotten about using the tape loop. I guess the equalizer has something to do with them just using what look like mid drivers.

What's the "Bose sound", I've heard that term before

# ¿ Apr 30, 2020 14:31

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

EL BROMANCE posted:

No highs, no lows

I'll have to have a proper listen next time I can hang out with him.

# ¿ Apr 30, 2020 14:59

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

Very interesting read, thanks. I've always judged my system and speakers on how it sounds flat ("tone defeat" on my old NAD amps "source direct" on the current Sony preamp) I figured if I needed to adjust the bass or treble then the speakers or room weren't up to snuff.

I've been playing a programming puzzle game recently where you build different embedded systems and program them with a made-up form of assembly. One of the puzzles early on is an "harmonic maximizer" that does basically that, this page from the manual subtly makes fun of the audio companies selling such things:

large hands fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Apr 30, 2020

# ¿ Apr 30, 2020 20:30

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

I would definitely give a pair of Martin Logan electrostatics a listen at that price range.

# ¿ May 17, 2020 18:56

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

Being a Canadian I'm required to recommend a Bryston 4B power amplifier

# ¿ May 17, 2020 20:51

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

Chumbawumba4ever97 posted:

I thought expensive needles were a scam until I got a VM540ML and all of the simbilance from the yelling of loud "S" sounds on all my early 90s rap records completely disappeared.

That sounds more like an issue with your previous cartridge/stylus than something you need to spend hundreds to fix. Not that I have a problem with expensive cartridges, but stuff like that shouldn't be an issue on a decent inexpensive one.

# ¿ Jun 9, 2020 22:15

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

Weird, never noticed anything like that on the om5e that came with my turntable

# ¿ Jun 9, 2020 22:29

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

Just got a $1200 tax return and saw these guys... https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van/ele/d/highlands-rare-bw-speakers/7138609806.html

That's Canadian, so like $950 usd. Tell me I'm an idiot and shouldn't buy them.

# ¿ Jun 9, 2020 22:45

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

They just look beautiful and I'm assuming sound great. Appearance is a big factor, if they're going in our livingroom they better be nice hardwood or my wife won't be happy. Are there attractive modern speakers with that aesthetic for less than $2000?

# ¿ Jun 9, 2020 23:26

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

I haven't, I always just looked for classic used stuff assuming that new stuff that looked as nice would be out of my price range. I'll check some of those out.

e: I think I probably assumed that they were like amplifiers, in that you can get a pair of speakers like those b&ws I linked that used to cost $5000 new for $1000 today, and they'll sound much the same as a pair of speakers that cost $5000 new today. I guess speaker tech has evolved more than I thought

large hands fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Jun 9, 2020

# ¿ Jun 9, 2020 23:37

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

Exactly the kind of input i was looking for, thanks guys. Think I'm looking for floor standers both for furniture reasons and I've found most bookshelf speakers to be a little anemic in the bass range.

Anything smaller than the Polk monitor 7s I've used in the past on stands would probably be out. Currently using a pair of energy 5.1e towers I've had since I was a teenager but I find the mid range lacking, don't like the chuffy ported sound and they're ugly as sin.

These guys are a few blocks from me, hopefully they open the physical store soon and I can go listen to some of that monitor audio stuff

https://www.soundhounds.com/collections/floorstanding-speakers

# ¿ Jun 10, 2020 00:53

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

Hey electronics guys, maybe you can point me in the right direction, the other night my amp blew the tweeters on my towers while nothing was playing.

During the day we'd heard a couple of loud zap sounds coming through the speakers. I should have unplugged them then but foolishly didn't. Later that night my wife heard a louder zap and the next morning the tweeters were out.

The amp is the Sony ES power/pre combo I posted about buying a few pages back. The speakers were my old set of Energy 5.1e's. The pre was plugged into our turntable which was off and PC which was on and the input for the PC was selected on the pre. Pre was plugged into a Costco power bar and the power amp plugged into the outlet on the preamp.

Luckily I don't really care about the speakers but I need to figure out what happened before I plug in a new pair, obviously.

# ¿ Jul 4, 2020 15:09

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

I have a multimeter and will watch that video and see if I can narrow it down before I take it to the local hifi shop. Thanks!

# ¿ Jul 4, 2020 18:53

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

It's this pair:

Not in protection, except for the normal 5 second startup

# ¿ Jul 4, 2020 23:13

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

Turgid, thanks so much! I'll go through it step by step as soon as i have time and let you know what i find.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2020 16:44

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

Hey Turgid, thanks again for your help, finally got time to crack open the TA-N55ES:

Discernibly Turgid posted:

TA-N55ES stuff

Still powers up and doesn’t go into protection.

Do you know if it still produces any sound through your now-messed-up speakers? Have you confirmed it’s only the tweeters that went out?

If the amp has any DC offset beyond 100-200mV, the protection engages because of excessive DC, and even if it could stay on with more, that wouldn’t have any effect on your tweeters, as the crossover has a cap blocking DC.

If the thing was making noises throughout the day and eventually ate your tweeters (while still turning on in the condition above), you’re looking at a high-frequency oscillation (higher than what you can hear and what the tweeter can safely reproduce, especially with the kind of runaway that can ensue.)

I’ve got 4 of those in different conditions (I don’t know why the guy had four to sell, but he gave me a nice price (around $75/ amp IIRC) while I was picking up some other stuff, so I’ve got the service manual.

Once we know the casualties we will have an idea of where to look (faulty STK, individual styrene caps.) The description of the failure (intermittent hellsounds followed by loudest hellsound, failed tweeter (quite possibly singular) but still turning on and appearing normal, it leans toward a styrene pF value cap giving out, starting to short intermittently, and then giving up altogether, which would leave it open and that circuit element free to oscillate. Best place to look is C310,311,360, and C361 (if it’s a single tweeter, this is a great place to start) which are 33pF and span the B-C on the driver transistors.) Other likely culprit would be a failed STK (again, if it’s a single dead tweeter), as a failure of any of the transistors outside there would prevent the bias from being set.

To check:

Remove the bottom service panel before turning it on. This gives you easier access to the STK pins if memory serves. Also, before checking the following you’ll want to disconnect speakers and set the selector to “OFF.”

1- turn it on and give it 1-2 minutes before checking the binding posts (with no input, volume set to max, and the speaker selector set to A+B (so it doesn’t master which set of posts you check) for any kind of DC offset (or, better yet, high-frequency action if you’re also wielding a scope) as proof of life for both channels. Something other than “0.00mV” and probably below 100mV or so.

2- bias adjust (page 5 of the service manual) - does it end up where it needs to be, is it 0mV, or does it start climbing after being on with no input for an extended period? Check both channels every 15 minutes or so for about 2 hours and answer the above for both channels.

3 - while it’s warming up, check pins 5,6,10, and 11 of the STK for the requisite +/- 1.2V.

Report back.

If you end up having a bad STK I’m happy to send you a spare (I gutted one of the amps so I could use the transformer and “Gibraltar” platform for a non-amp DIY project I’m currently prototyping.)

Was not expecting a red velvet platform for the caps lol:

Audio test with a variable test tone shows both speakers affected, only the tweeters, they are completely dead, 6" drivers work fine.

1. after a couple minutes warmup, both channels show @5mV DC

2. adjusted left channel to 7.6, right channel to 7.1(those are some fiddly adjustments!) at noon.

12:30pm l= 7.6 r = 7.5
1:00pm l = 7.7 r = 7.1
1:30pm l = 7.8 r = 7.2
2:00pm l = 7.6 r = 7.2

So no real change there.

3.stk pins: d305 = 1.5V
d306 = 0.9mV
d310 = 2.5 mV
d311 = 2.3 mV

These are what I'm looking for, right:

When testing the pins I'm just holding the black probe on the metal case to ground, is this correct? I noticed the values tended to start high then settle down to the numbers above.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2020 22:01

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

Discernibly Turgid posted:

I wish I knew how to do the summary quotation (�So and so said words�), so apologies in advance.

Bias holding steady is encouraging.

Do you have a scope you can connect to the outputs of the amp with no input and the volume knob in the front turned all of the way down? It would be useful to know if there�s an ongoing oscillation making its way to the outputs.

Moving on.

The caps that may be suspect have part numbers starting with �C,� not �D.� Those diodes aren�t a helpful place for a voltage measurement, but we will get this right and, as the parent of a toddler, I am a patient man. That, and I love doing audio, so this is therapeutic.

The STK is a silver and black, large-ish, upright IC that is located on the opposite side of the heat sink from the power supply. That chip contains all of the normal input circuitry you would expect to find in an amp, but with uniform temp coefficients and easier board layout (although it has some drawbacks AND the assholes who opted to connect the two boards in the way they did should be subject to harsh punishment and engineering sounds for kids� toys.)

STK is located in the lower right of this screen cap.

Look at step 3 in the original reply and I�ve listed the pins you want to measure.

The reason we are looking for +/-1.2V at those spots is because, at those points in the circuit, that is the voltage required to keep the driver transistors (the final stage before the output transistors) in an �ON� state (since it�s a Darlington transistor, it takes two diode drops� worth of voltage to be able to enter the �ON� state, provided, of course, the rest of it is biased up correctly.)

If one (or more) of those four pins isn�t reading +/-1.2V, then something on the STK�s side of the amp is wrong, because the devices inside are t all coming in as they should. This could mean a bad STK and/or a failed component in its immediate neighborhood (those are the �C� devices we will check out for trouble as well.)

The capacitors I�ve already mentioned (half of them pictured below) are near the driver transistors. Be focused, perform each measurement with care, and it�s easy. Each of those should have +/-1.2V on one side and the corresponding +/-56V on the other side. Styrene caps overwhelmingly fail outright and either short out or fail open (like a fuse.) Failing open is almost always the end result with one of those, so the voltages will remain unaffected in that case.

If the first four (from step 3) seem fine, check C309 and 359 while you�re there (because electrolytic caps are usually first to go and these two are uniquely I�ll-suited for the task they�ve been given. Failing open would be another way for an oscillation to get rolling, but the idea is that the first four you checked are where they are to prevent the drivers from both doing it themselves or passing it along if someone else is doing it,) move on to checking the ones near the STK itself (pictured below.) They�re less likely culprits, it if the first ones seem fine, these are next.

Do you have anything for measuring/analyzing capacitors? If most of the above fail open, the oscillation is the only way you�ll �see� it without removing the caps under investigation from the circuit (desolder and lift one leg to test each, power off, of course.) You will see leakage in the form of voltages being dragged down/up significantly at the site of one of them, but then you wouldn�t be able to bias the unit or get it out of protection mode. It would be great to just have a meter, but if nothing else you would at least want to see if, for a given cap, does it measure as either an (essentially or completely) open circuit or short circuit.

Too much at once? Step-by-step preferred? I�m drinking on the back porch of an isolated rental unit, staring at the sky and enjoying the quiet, but mainly drinking. I can definitely compose something more linear and less jumpy. Also, if it would be more helpful and you can wait another two week, I can give you my email and help walk you through it at a pace that works for you.

Let me know and I can produce a more solid plan and give you concrete, part-by-part procedure.

Best of luck and good job so far!

Thanks again, for your help and patience, I'm definitely new to this but excited to learn. We have a 3 year old and a 3 week old so i get your toddler induced patience comment lol. I do not have an oscilloscope but can rig a basic capacitance meter from an arduino (have done this to check speaker crossover caps before). i'll reopen the amp and check out the correct pins and report back

# ¿ Jul 13, 2020 03:37

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

Discernibly Turgid posted:

As the 4th of 6 kids and parent to 1, I cannot fathom how anybody intentionally has more than 1 kid. You�ve earned even more patience from me, man. How close are you to the DC area? Your boldness deserves something (that isn�t another kid) and I could hook you up with a pretty badass, old school HP aviation scope with a bunch of cool digital functions. It�s too massive to ship and it just isn�t worth selling for the going price, as the amount of gold in it far exceeds the same price in value.

While I greatly appeciate the offer, I'm on the west coast of canada so i suspect shipping would be prohibitive. Unless there is a way to make an oscilloscope with an arduino or raspberry pi i will try what i can with what i have

# ¿ Jul 13, 2020 03:53

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

Looks good, now move those speakers about ten feet wider apart

e: I like the look of that new Yamaha stuff, looks like they took a few pages from NADs stylebook

# ¿ Jul 24, 2020 00:52

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

Listen to some well mastered music and see what sounds best, but a good starting point would be as far apart as you can get them, centered on your listening position, canted in towards you a little (15° maybe) and a couple feet away from the back wall.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2020 01:00

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

It's seriously crazy how much difference positioning and room acoustics can make. It sounds like bs but when you get it right the speakers disappear and the music comes from the whole side of the room.

Personally I would have one where the lamp is to the left of the door and another where the plant is and go from there.

e: yeah closer to the wall should be ok with front firing ports

# ¿ Jul 24, 2020 01:05

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

BigFactory posted:

Just do whatever sounds good to you

This goes for positioning too, really

actionjackson posted:

Another thing I'm noticing is a definite volume difference between vinyl tracks.

This is normal, look up "the loudness wars"

# ¿ Jul 24, 2020 01:52

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

Houses of the Holy #1 summer/driving record

# ¿ Jul 25, 2020 03:17

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

Ok Turgid, got a little bit of time today and hooked a little ADC up to a raspberry Pi to make a super basic scope. I'll try going through some of your suggestions for my ES power amp with it tomorrow...

# ¿ Aug 1, 2020 03:13

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# ¿ Apr 16, 2024 21:07

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

Hey Turgid, the oscilloscope I tried to Jerry rig was an exercise in frustration so I bought a $30 scope from Amazon, here's the output with nothing plugged in:

STK pins 5,6,10,11 all read @1.1V (other pins are around 50V, but I assume that's normal.

I'll check the caps you mentioned with a multimeter next, although now I have a scope, would that be a better way to see something if they failed open?

If people are annoyed by my ongoing attempts to fix my stupid power amp here, im happy to take it to PMs

e: since I know nothing about oscilloscopes, the photo above was with the probe set to 10x. 1x result:

large hands fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Aug 8, 2020

# ¿ Aug 8, 2020 18:41

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