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Zorblack
Oct 8, 2008

And with strange aeons, even death may eat a burrito with goons.

Lipstick Apathy

After slightly derailing a different thread, I decided to start this one. ITT we can post features we want in a CCW gun, talk about our CCW guns and why we picked them, and also address issues such as holsters and safety concerns. In short : if you have any questions about CCW guns, informative stories about CCW, safety questions or safety tips, or just want to brag about how you stuffed a 7.5" barrel down the front of your pants without profiling, this is an excellent place for it.

To start :
I have been thinking about what gun I would like to purchase for baby's first ccw my all day personal protection type gun. Some things I would really like (after listening to some points in another thread) : a gun that can be carried in condition 2 (live round, hammer down) with a DA trigger, a grip safety, low price, rugged reliability. I am but a poor college lad, so I am not adverse to milsurp and used guns, or older guns. Just because it's old doesn't mean it can't still protect right? 9mm is my preferred ammo type because it's inexpensive and available (meaning lots of practice won't bankrupt me), but if anyone would like to toss some ideas in similar ammo types I'm open to suggestion.

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Ophidian
Jan 12, 2005

Woo WOO, Look a Parrot...
LOOK AT IT!


Best CCW gun: G19
Best CCW IWB Holster: Comptac Minotaur (MTAC)

Thread over.

Fat Ogre
Dec 31, 2007

Guns don't kill people.

I do.


Have any of you guys used a Crossbreed holster?

EDIT: Looks like Comp-tac and crossbreed are essentially the same thing.

Fat Ogre fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Jan 7, 2009

kuffs
Mar 29, 2007

Projectile Dysfunction


Came here to post this:

Ophidian posted:

Best CCW gun: G19
Best CCW IWB Holster: Comptac Minotaur (MTAC)

Thread over.

...decided I'd try to answer Zorblack's question.


Zorblack posted:

To start :
I have been thinking about what gun I would like to purchase for baby's first ccw my all day personal protection type gun. Some things I would really like (after listening to some points in another thread) : a gun that can be carried in condition 2 (live round, hammer down) with a DA trigger, a grip safety, low price, rugged reliability. I am but a poor college lad, so I am not adverse to milsurp and used guns, or older guns. Just because it's old doesn't mean it can't still protect right? 9mm is my preferred ammo type because it's inexpensive and available (meaning lots of practice won't bankrupt me), but if anyone would like to toss some ideas in similar ammo types I'm open to suggestion.

Have you had the possible carry options explained to you? I don't know of any guns that match your critera, and some of it sounds really nancy-ish.

Why do you need a grip safety? Why condition 2?

And the last part, your post sounds like DAO, but do you really mean DA/SA as well?

Gray Stormy
Dec 19, 2006



As far as ammo goes, I carry Hornaday TAP and couldnt be happier with it.

Im sure there are several different opinions on ammo though.

CoolBlue
Jul 23, 2007
Bags of cereal are awesome

Ophidian posted:

Best CCW gun: G19
Best CCW IWB Holster: Comptac Minotaur (MTAC)

Thread over.

I know this is the most popular choice for CCW in TFR, but surely some people don't like Glocks, or would like something besides 9mm.

Helter Skelter
Feb 10, 2004

BEARD OF HAVOC



Zorblack posted:

with a DA trigger, a grip safety
Pick one. The only guns I know of that are both DA and have a grip safety are the LDA options from Para-Ordinance, and those are neither low-priced nor particularly well-regarded in general.

Find a local range that rents guns and shoot a bunch of stuff there. Figure out what you're actually comfortable with, not what you think looks good on paper. Make a purchase decision based on that.

Then go buy a used Glock 19 or save up for a Sig.

Edit:

CoolBlue posted:

I know this is the most popular choice for CCW in TFR, but surely some people don't like Glocks, or would like something besides 9mm.
Acceptable alternate choices include: Glock 23, Sig P229/P239, and the compact CZ-75 variants.

Also Hi-Powers, 1911s, and J-frame revolvers, because sometimes you just gotta go with the classics.

Helter Skelter fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Jan 7, 2009

Fat Ogre
Dec 31, 2007

Guns don't kill people.

I do.


CoolBlue posted:

I know this is the most popular choice for CCW in TFR, but surely some people don't like Glocks, or would like something besides 9mm.

I like my .45 ACP XD

My main gripe against Glocks, besides the grip angle, is that they just have the trigger safety so if anything gets into your trigger guard area when holstering or drawing the gun it could go off. Sure this isn't a big concern but I've heard of enough instances where this happened that I'm not comfortable carrying a Glock for that reason.

But grip angle and single safety aside they are loving awesome guns.

Though it seems like every time I hear about an AD it is some guy and a Glock, not sure if it is because the owners are stupid (popular gun means more stupid people own them), or it is easy to AD with a Glock.

Veen
Oct 26, 2003

Just the tip!


Ultimately, it's not the owners being stupider, it's just that the Glock lends itself to making it easier for idiots to ND. Some dumbass gets his hands on a Beretta and he'll probably safety it. When he lets his finger slip in the trigger guard on holstering, he'll go "whuups! Guess there's a reason they put dem safeties on, huh?" and nothing more will come of it. With a Glock... well... there's a reason the term "Glock Leg" (and the much more dreaded "Glock Cock") came about.

Of course this can ALL be entirely avoided by simply NOT STICKING YOUR FINGER ON THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOU SHOOT!

kuffs
Mar 29, 2007

Projectile Dysfunction


Fat Ogre posted:

I like my .45 ACP XD

My main gripe against Glocks, besides the grip angle, is that they just have the trigger safety so if anything gets into your trigger guard area when holstering or drawing the gun it could go off. Sure this isn't a big concern but I've heard of enough instances where this happened that I'm not comfortable carrying a Glock for that reason.

So you're not gripping your XD when you draw/holster?

Ophidian
Jan 12, 2005

Woo WOO, Look a Parrot...
LOOK AT IT!


Fat Ogre posted:

I like my .45 ACP XD

My main gripe against Glocks, besides the grip angle, is that they just have the trigger safety so if anything gets into your trigger guard area when holstering or drawing the gun it could go off. Sure this isn't a big concern but I've heard of enough instances where this happened that I'm not comfortable carrying a Glock for that reason.

But grip angle and single safety aside they are loving awesome guns.

Though it seems like every time I hear about an AD it is some guy and a Glock, not sure if it is because the owners are stupid (popular gun means more stupid people own them), or it is easy to AD with a Glock.

There is no such thing as an AD unless the gun is malfunctioning (something that glocks aren't really known for). As long as you aren't a loving retard or using your gun while you are high/drunk you should never "accidentally" discharge your firearm, glock or other.

More along the lines of this topic, I am currently using either Winchester Ranger 127gr +p+ 9mm in my g19 or Golden Saber 124gr +p. The only reason I change up my ammo is because they both look really similar and i keep two mags of each in my gun safe, so its whatever I reach for before I walk out the door.

Ophidian fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Jan 7, 2009

skitzed
Oct 8, 2004
I don't know what I'm doing.

Zorblack posted:

...a gun that can be carried in condition 2 (live round, hammer down) with a DA trigger, a grip safety...

By grip safety, do you mean a frame mounted safety, or do you actually mean a grip safety?

CoolBlue
Jul 23, 2007
Bags of cereal are awesome

Just for reference, I wasn't hating on Glocks. A 19 will probably be on my list of guns to purchase this year. Right now I carry a 21 in an MTAC.

Acer
Dec 20, 2004
Inter arma silent leges.

I have a 5" 1911 I want to occasionally carry, but I don't know where to start as far as holsters. The only thing I know is that I want it to be IWB, and of course it needs to be able to conceal something as big as that on someone my size (5'11" / 180).

Help me TFR?

CoolBlue
Jul 23, 2007
Bags of cereal are awesome

Acer posted:

I have a 5" 1911 I want to occasionally carry, but I don't know where to start as far as holsters. The only thing I know is that I want it to be IWB, and of course it needs to be able to conceal something as big as that on someone my size (5'11" / 180).

Help me TFR?

MTAC. I carry my Glock 21 in it without printing. It's amazingly comfortable, you'll forget its there. I am a bit bigger than you (6'5", 240lbs), but you'll be hard pressed to find somewhere here that'll talk poo poo on the MTAC.

EDIT: For those of you that have gun mounted lights for a CCW, what holster do you use?

CoolBlue fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Jan 7, 2009

Ophidian
Jan 12, 2005

Woo WOO, Look a Parrot...
LOOK AT IT!


Acer posted:

I have a 5" 1911 I want to occasionally carry, but I don't know where to start as far as holsters. The only thing I know is that I want it to be IWB, and of course it needs to be able to conceal something as big as that on someone my size (5'11" / 180).

Help me TFR?

Ctac/Mtac. I cant say enough good things about these IWB holsters. They are the most comfortable IWB holsters I have ever used (I tried a ton of holsters before I decided to go through with dropping the 80 bucks or so on the MTAC).

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

I've got a 229 Elite that I can throw some slim Hogue grips on i/o the fat wood grips. I'm 6'3" and about 215. Does this sound like something I can likely conceal in the Texas summer?

Somebody should make a height/weight/concealable? webapp for questions like these. I don't want to spend $85 on an MTAC w/ body for a 229 without knowing for sure.

Obviously I don't carry it yet, but I use Speer Gold Dot +P for HD in 9mm.

CoolBlue
Jul 23, 2007
Bags of cereal are awesome

AR posted:

I've got a 229 Elite that I can throw some slim Hogue grips on i/o the fat wood grips. I'm 6'3" and about 215. Does this sound like something I can likely conceal in the Texas summer?

Somebody should make a height/weight/concealable? webapp for questions like these. I don't want to spend $85 on an MTAC w/ body for a 229 without knowing for sure.

Obviously I don't carry it yet, but I use Speer Gold Dot +P for HD in 9mm.

What do you wear in the Texas summer? Obviously a T shirt of some sort, but do you tuck them in? How long are they?

ArmaliteSpade
Apr 4, 2008

Ask, and ye shall receive.


AR posted:

I've got a 229 Elite that I can throw some slim Hogue grips on i/o the fat wood grips. I'm 6'3" and about 215. Does this sound like something I can likely conceal in the Texas summer?

Somebody should make a height/weight/concealable? webapp for questions like these. I don't want to spend $85 on an MTAC w/ body for a 229 without knowing for sure.

Obviously I don't carry it yet, but I use Speer Gold Dot +P for HD in 9mm.

I'm 6'1" and 165 lbs. I can CCW a Beretta 92FS under a polo shirt with a CTAC. You should be fine.

ETA: As long as you don't dress weird I suppose.

Ophidian
Jan 12, 2005

Woo WOO, Look a Parrot...
LOOK AT IT!


AR posted:

I've got a 229 Elite that I can throw some slim Hogue grips on i/o the fat wood grips. I'm 6'3" and about 215. Does this sound like something I can likely conceal in the Texas summer?

Somebody should make a height/weight/concealable? webapp for questions like these. I don't want to spend $85 on an MTAC w/ body for a 229 without knowing for sure.

Obviously I don't carry it yet, but I use Speer Gold Dot +P for HD in 9mm.

I am 5'9 and 140 lbs. I can conceal my G19 with a longer T shirt with no problem (I usually wear a medium T shirt, but when carrying I just rock a Large so my piece has less chance of making an appearance in front of the crowd. Also, a thin, patterned button down makes for a good carry shirt (if its not tucked in). Something to think about.

Ferrett
Sep 6, 2000



I have an HK45c that I'd love to CCW if Comp-Tac would get around to making an MTAC for it, since that's what I use for my Sig and my G26. Anyone know of any other decent carry rig for a 45c?

Zorblack
Oct 8, 2008

And with strange aeons, even death may eat a burrito with goons.

Lipstick Apathy

kuffs posted:

Have you had the possible carry options explained to you? I don't know of any guns that match your critera, and some of it sounds really nancy-ish.

Why do you need a grip safety? Why condition 2?

And the last part, your post sounds like DAO, but do you really mean DA/SA as well?

I really haven't had the carry options explained to me, I just looked through the TFR Wiki and saw the different "Conditions of readiness" and condition 2 looked like the best blend of safety and readiness to fire. Also, I mean DA/SA, and what do you mean by "nancy-ish"? (not being defensive, just asking if you think I'm being overly cautious and what things I need to get straight in my mind)

skitzed posted:

By grip safety, do you mean a frame mounted safety, or do you actually mean a grip safety?
I mean the type of safety usually on the back of the grip that does not allow the gun to fire unless the gun is being gripped. If it is too much to want both a grip safety and a dual action trigger, I think I would feel most comfortable with a DA/SA trigger with a decocker (once the hammer is safely down, is there a difference in guns that have a decocker and those that can just have the hammer thumbed down?). I think there's a place called freedom armory nearby that rents guns and has an indoor range, so if I get a good laundry list I'll go there one weekend and go hog wild.

kwantam
Mar 25, 2008

-=kwantam


A few things have been hit so far, but one of the usual suspects that no one has mentioned (and then some others in semi brain dump style).

Get a good gun belt.

IWB or SOB are going to be the easiest to conceal. Pancakes and shoulders generally will require you to be wearing a jacket or sweatshirt.

I just ordered an MTAC and I'm looking forward to it. Right now I have a cheap SOB slide but a good holster is essential for carry, especially in states like TX where even accidentally revealing that you're carrying is a crime.

Regarding ammo, a somewhat outdated but not altogether unreasonable read on ammo types in different calibers: Ammunition for the Self Defense Firearm

My bedside gun is loaded with .45ACP 230gr Federal Hydra-Shoks. From the many ammo tests I've seen, the "standard" Hydra-Shok is an okay-but-not-great round. Federal HSTs are among the best, along with Speer Gold Dots. I haven't personally messed around with Winchester Black Talons or their more recent derivatives, but they also get excellent reviews.

In 9mm, I like Speer Gold Dot 115gr +P, Cor-Bon 115gr +P, Federal HST 124gr +P. The +P rounds will generally perform better when shooting through barriers, since they have higher initial velocity and as a result are still moving fast enough on impact with the BG to expand appropriately. +P rounds may be more likely to over penetrate and/or come apart, though, so also consider the Gold Dot 115 standard velocity, as well as the Federal HST 124gr standard velocity. By the way, the Cor-Bon 115gr +P rounds pack more punch than some +P+ rounds. 1350fps/466ft# from a 9mm is pretty impressive.

147gr 9mm rounds perform rather well these days, contrary to what the Chuck Hawks article I linked above states. I still don't use them for defense, though---because I can't practice with similar bullets easily. (No, I also don't currently practice with +P loads that mimic the rounds I carry, but at some point I'd like to start handloading FMJs to closely match my defense loads, and for now I've found that at distances that matter the 115gr FMJs are "close enough.")

Never use hand loads for home defense or CCW. No, it has nothing to do with your lack of skill in loading. If/when you shoot someone with your handloads, the prosecutor may well decide that you loaded up some extra special armor piercing cop killing angel raping bullets because you're a lunatic. IMO the best round to use is the one that the cops in your area use, because (1) they generally use good ammo, and (2) "yes sir, I use the same ammunition as peace officers for my self defense."

ETA: As I've said elsewhere, H&K P7s are an expensive but IMO awesome CCW option.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

CoolBlue posted:

What do you wear in the Texas summer? Obviously a T shirt of some sort, but do you tuck them in? How long are they?

Wife beaters and kilts. Or a t-shirt or polo and cargo shorts. No vintage stuff anymore so not really fitted shirts, not that I would try to conceal anything under something that tight anyway.

Zorblack posted:

If it is too much to want both a grip safety and a dual action trigger, I think I would feel most comfortable with a DA/SA trigger with a decocker (once the hammer is safely down, is there a difference in guns that have a decocker and those that can just have the hammer thumbed down?). I think there's a place called freedom armory nearby that rents guns and has an indoor range, so if I get a good laundry list I'll go there one weekend and go hog wild.

It's not necessarily that you're asking too much but that there are few guns with that particular combo of safety measures (XD...?). No there is no difference in hammers, but IIRC it's not good to thumb down a hammer on either. See what points naturally in your hand and what fits you well, as this will be more important than the types of safety measures and both qualities could be mutually exclusive.

AR fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Jan 8, 2009

king of the bongo
Apr 26, 2008

If you're brown, GET DOWN!


kwantam posted:

Get a good gun belt.

I was talking to Kinyo about this and didn't believe him until he showed me. He carries his mtac with regular belt/pants and doesn't feel the need to get a specific gun belt. Anyone else feel the same way about the mtac?

Militant Lesbian
Oct 3, 2002


Zorblack posted:

I really haven't had the carry options explained to me, I just looked through the TFR Wiki and saw the different "Conditions of readiness" and condition 2 looked like the best blend of safety and readiness to fire.

It looks good because you're new and don't know any better. Every instructor and trainer on the planet will tell you to carry condition one (only exceptions are for guns that have no manual safety or are only equipped with a decocker)


quote:

I mean the type of safety usually on the back of the grip that does not allow the gun to fire unless the gun is being gripped.

Grip safeties are pretty much limited to M1911 pattern pistols, which are generally all single-action only (carry them cocked-and-locked, don't be a retard). Don't obesss over them, they're not really important, which is why manufacturers don't bother incorporating them into any other designs.*




king of the bongo posted:

I was talking to Kinyo about this and didn't believe him until he showed me. He carries his mtac with regular belt/pants and doesn't feel the need to get a specific gun belt. Anyone else feel the same way about the mtac?

I use a heavy $20 belt I got from Target.

*to the regulars who are going to feel the need to amend this, yes I know there are a few bizarro guns and also P7s and Para-ords, but you needent be pedantic dicks when you're trying to educate a new guy. Just keep it simple.

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



king of the bongo posted:

I was talking to Kinyo about this and didn't believe him until he showed me. He carries his mtac with regular belt/pants and doesn't feel the need to get a specific gun belt. Anyone else feel the same way about the mtac?

Until you've carried both ways, you don't know what you're missing. Trust me. The gun/holster will move around a lot less and be more secure in a purpose-built gun belt. Dress belts aren't designed to carry a load, gun belts are. This isn't to say that a gun belt will have to be some ugly nylon POS, there's plenty of people who make stylish gun belts.

Ferrett
Sep 6, 2000



If anyone wants a really awesome gunbelt, I highly recommend The Beltman. http://www.thebeltman.net/

I got the recommendation from here and I'm extremely happy with both of mine.

kwantam
Mar 25, 2008

-=kwantam


Perhaps some people in this thread would care to chime in on where they got their CHL/CCW/CCP/(whatever your state calls it) training, for the sake of those who are just getting started.

I did mine with Ross Bransford, http://www.chl-texas.com

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

kwantam posted:

Perhaps some people in this thread would care to chime in on where they got their CHL/CCW/CCP/(whatever your state calls it) training, for the sake of those who are just getting started.

I did mine with Ross Bransford, http://www.chl-texas.com

ARC goon? I'm a member, but I'm taking my class this month up in DFW w/ Mr. Gilreath -- http://www.chltx.com/

kwantam
Mar 25, 2008

-=kwantam


AR posted:

ARC goon?

No, but I was thinking of joining at some point. Lately I've been shooting at Red's because I got a shiny new membership from a v.v. generous benefactor.

CoolBlue
Jul 23, 2007
Bags of cereal are awesome

I took my class at Advanced Shooting near Cincinnati, OH. HIGHLY recommended if anyone in the tri-state area is looking.

MrTuffPaws
Feb 7, 2005



Fat Ogre posted:

Have any of you guys used a Crossbreed holster?

EDIT: Looks like Comp-tac and crossbreed are essentially the same thing.

I have and Crossbreed IWB for my MilPro PT-145. Great holster and untra comfy. The only thing that I can complain about is that the retention is less than stellar when the holster is out of your pants, but with it place and your belt tight, that isn't a problem.

Southbound 35
Nov 12, 2006
No deep meaning here.

Can someone recommend an alternative to thebeltman? A friend of mine has one of their belts and while it is indeed really stiff, both the leather and buckle look like poo poo in every possible way.

MrTuffPaws
Feb 7, 2005



As for what gun and holster to get, get a pocket, a snub, and one of these:

kuffs
Mar 29, 2007

Projectile Dysfunction


Zorblack posted:

I really haven't had the carry options explained to me, I just looked through the TFR Wiki and saw the different "Conditions of readiness" and condition 2 looked like the best blend of safety and readiness to fire. Also, I mean DA/SA, and what do you mean by "nancy-ish"? (not being defensive, just asking if you think I'm being overly cautious and what things I need to get straight in my mind)

I couldn't really find a better term than 'nancy-ish' at the time. I really meant something more along the lines of "You are really gung-ho on safeties, I don't believe that more safeties really means a 'safer' gun." Not really trying to put you on the defensive, just a poor choice of words .

I really think you should explore a few different styles of gun and see what you like. The safety system isn't really as important because the real safety is a proper holster and your trigger finger.

That being said, a lot of people don't like condition 2 because that means the first trigger pull (DA) is longer and more difficult than subsequent (SA) pulls. It's hard to train around that.

kuffs
Mar 29, 2007

Projectile Dysfunction


Southbound 35 posted:

Can someone recommend an alternative to thebeltman? A friend of mine has one of their belts and while it is indeed really stiff, both the leather and buckle look like poo poo in every possible way.

He should have sent it back, I hear the guy that runs it is really easy to work with.

I got mine a week ago and it is amazing looking, top-notch work.

lilspooky
Mar 21, 2006


kwantam posted:

ETA: As I've said elsewhere, H&K P7s are an expensive but IMO awesome CCW option.

Just picked up an M8. Can you recommend a good holster for it?

Discount_Bees
Aug 1, 2007

How do I get out of this chickenshit outfit?


Is there a preferred holster for the ppk/s?

And the crimson trace shouldn't make a difference in the fit of the holster should it?

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Easychair Bootson
May 7, 2004

Where's the last guy?
Ultimo hombre.
Last man standing.
Must've been one.


Southbound 35 posted:

Can someone recommend an alternative to thebeltman? A friend of mine has one of their belts and while it is indeed really stiff, both the leather and buckle look like poo poo in every possible way.
https://www.mitchrosen.com although I think those buckles are ugly as hell too. You can replace the buckle on a Beltman belt.

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