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BitBasher
Jun 6, 2004

You've got to know the rules before you can break 'em. Otherwise, it's no fun.

Since this seems thread appropriate, does anyone know of a good IWB magazine carrier?

Don Hume apparently makes a double magazine tuckable carrier, but does anyone know if it's any good? I really think a single magazine tuckable carrier would be sufficient.

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ArmaliteSpade
Apr 4, 2008

Ask, and ye shall receive.


/\/\ Bitbasher, if you order a "backwards" mag holster from comp-tac it can be used as IWB. But it isn't designed for it and doesn't feel all that great. I'd like to find a better single mag holder too, as my 92FS mags OWB stick out a bit.

Imk posted:

RE everyone who asked, I see how purse carrying's a lovely idea. I rarely wear skirts or dresses or anything- usually jeans and some sort of blouse or something that goes halfway down my thighs, so IWB would probably be my best bet.

Just be aware that you're going to have to haul all that fabric up to draw.

Sturdy posted:

what would be the best option for a concealment holster for a Sig P225/P6?

Comp-tac CTAC will work, but they don't make a MTAC for it sadly.

drzrma
Dec 29, 2008


CoolBlue posted:

I understand your reasoning for wanting the gun on your person. Honestly, if you carried it IWB at 4 o'clock the gun would probably take most of the beating, assuming you aren't going fast enough to burn through your belt and the gun rips off. I think I'd rather have it on my rear end then under my shoulder.

I already shattered my femur skiing once, I worry more about breaking my pelvis or something if I fall on it. Given that my, so far, fairly limited experience with falling off my bikes has left me with with bruises everywhere but where a shoulder holster would live, I figured that might be a good place to put a gun. That and my two piece leathers don't have anywhere to put a belt, and don't really have room for IWB despite me being a skinny bastard.

I guess we're back to the idea that falling sucks, and should be avoided. We'll see how the 5.11 belt and MTAC work out, failing that, I'll see what else works out.

About the permit, even though WA is shall issue, there was either some real delay in the system somewhere, or the sheriff's office here sat on it for a couple weeks. They had it ready when I went in person, and were perfectly nice about it, so things may just be a bit gummed up at the moment. Always worth asking though.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.




Why Concealed Carry magazines?

Even if you have a tiny 7 round mag in the gun...if you fire off all 7 rounds and are still engaged...you're doing something wrong, that's a police shootout, not a self defense situation.

lilspooky
Mar 21, 2006


^^^ My understanding is that it's in case of problems with the first magazine / feeding, you can just drop that one and put the new one in. *shrug*

BitBasher posted:

Since this seems thread appropriate, does anyone know of a good IWB magazine carrier?

Don Hume apparently makes a double magazine tuckable carrier, but does anyone know if it's any good? I really think a single magazine tuckable carrier would be sufficient.

I don't know how good Crossbreed is, but I came across this the other night.

http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/magholders.html

charliebravo77
Jun 11, 2003



lilspooky posted:

^^^ My understanding is that it's in case of problems with the first magazine / feeding, you can just drop that one and put the new one in. *shrug*
That and 'have and not need' rather than 'need and not have.'

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.




Buy a reliable handgun or a revolver if yer that paranoid about failures.

I just don't think anyone will ever convince me that I'll be defending myself by firing my entire mag dry and having to jump behind cover to reload.

Hell to be honest if you can't do it with the first two taps, you're probably hosed or its a job for the police.

Militant Lesbian
Oct 3, 2002


Elendil004 posted:

Why Concealed Carry magazines?

Even if you have a tiny 7 round mag in the gun...if you fire off all 7 rounds and are still engaged...you're doing something wrong, that's a police shootout, not a self defense situation.

The most common point-of-failure with a semi-auto is the magazine. If for some reason, the one in the gun decides not to work and you can't drop it and put in a spare, your carry gun becomes a nice heavy weight to throw at your assailant.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.




HotCanadianChick posted:

The most common point-of-failure with a semi-auto is the magazine. If for some reason, the one in the gun decides not to work and you can't drop it and put in a spare, your carry gun becomes a nice heavy weight to throw at your assailant.

How many of you practice drills to drop the empty mag, reload and get into a position to fire regularly enough that you could do it under pressure?

Most likely you're standing there with a worthless gun fiddling around with it.

Don't get me wrong, carry what you want but I just think its silly.

(if you carry 1 in the chamber you're at least getting 1 shot off and that shot is the one that should count )

Dalrain
Nov 13, 2008

Experience joy,
Experience waffle,
Today.


Hey, I'll just chime in with my CCW training in the Akron area of Ohio. I used Walton and Associates ( http://www.carryingsafe.com/ ), specifically Mark Walton. He taught a good course, and was generally great at answering questions anyone had.

Also, lots of guns to look at on the class day, and even pick up after the learning portion was done. Pretty cool.

Militant Lesbian
Oct 3, 2002


Elendil004 posted:

How many of you practice drills to drop the empty mag, reload and get into a position to fire regularly enough that you could do it under pressure?

the answer to this should be "anyone who carries, ever", because if you don't, then you probably shouldn't bother carrying because without practice, you're probably more of a danger to innocents and bystanders than an attacker

kwantam
Mar 25, 2008

-=kwantam


Elendil004 posted:

How many of you practice drills to drop the empty mag, reload and get into a position to fire regularly enough that you could do it under pressure?

I always load up several mags at the range, which allows me to practice quick reload-and-fire. Another good drill is loading snap caps in the mag so you have to practice clearing a dud round. One last possibility is to load up empty brass into your mag, which will most likely jam your gun; this lets you practice clearing jams.

That said, I'm with you generally on the spare mag question. I wouldn't even think about carry a gun I hadn't put >1000 jam-free rounds through (ideally all of the carry type, but that gets $$$$ fast). By this logic, I could carry the P226 and one of my P7s (haven't fired the other one enough yet, and my Kimber FTLs every few hundred rounds). If I were still worried about it, I'd get a Ruger SP101, load it with .38 Spl +P, and not worry any more. I understand that it's a "level of comfort" thing, and I wouldn't criticize someone else for deciding to carry extra mags, but personally 9 rounds and a knife (for retention at the very least) are enough for me.

Here's one for y'all: do you carry +1? Specifically, do you chamber a round then top off the mag?

kwantam fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Jan 9, 2009

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.




I dont carry +1 just because some towns in my state limit you to 10 rds, thats also why I have to think bout where im going before loading up a 12rd or a 10rd mag.

Nill
Aug 24, 2003



kwantam posted:

Here's one for y'all: do you carry +1? Specifically, do you chamber a round then top off the mag?
If you're going to carry with the chamber loaded then you might as well carry with a full mag too.

As for carrying extra magazines? My general feeling is that for single stacks it might be prudent, for 16~18 round double-stacks it's a little much.

If you can't depend on your carry gun working on the first mag then it's time to get a different gun. If nothing can assuage your paranoia then that next gun should be a revolver.
Carry a spare mag, but remember if you need to reload for any other reason than a magazine failure then you're quickly leaving the realm of justifiable self-defense.

ArmaliteSpade
Apr 4, 2008

Ask, and ye shall receive.


kwantam posted:

Here's one for y'all: do you carry +1? Specifically, do you chamber a round then top off the mag?

No, but that's just laziness.

CoolBlue
Jul 23, 2007
Bags of cereal are awesome

ArmaliteSpade posted:

No, but that's just laziness.

Question about this...is it acceptable to lock the slide back, drop one in, then rack it and toss in a full mag? Or, should you always load up a mag, chamber one with it, then top it off?

kwantam
Mar 25, 2008

-=kwantam


CoolBlue posted:

Question about this...is it acceptable to lock the slide back, drop one in, then rack it and toss in a full mag? Or, should you always load up a mag, chamber one with it, then top it off?

Depends on your gun. If you do this on a 1911 you will eventually break the extractor (mostly true of internal extractor designs; externals may be betterdifferent about this). Safe answer is no.

Independence
Jul 11, 2006



CoolBlue posted:

Question about this...is it acceptable to lock the slide back, drop one in, then rack it and toss in a full mag? Or, should you always load up a mag, chamber one with it, then top it off?

You shouldn't go in through the out-hole, it doesn't work that way.

CoolBlue
Jul 23, 2007
Bags of cereal are awesome

Independence posted:

You shouldn't go in through the out-hole, it doesn't work that way.

Well I'm glad I assume that it was bad, although it would be easier.

drzrma
Dec 29, 2008


While I've heard that glocks don't care, I've always chambered a round from the magazine in any firearm I've used. Even did it before I learned about it being a potential issue, so I don't know where I picked it up.

So much of this is muscle memory, better to have good habits than questionable ones. Carry +1, finger always off the trigger until ready to fire. Loaded weapons will be stored in specific places, unloaded weapons will be stored elsewhere.

Defense weapons will be ready to go should they be required, and while everything is verified unloaded before transport, everything that is supposed to be unloaded already is. Snap caps will be separate from unloaded non carry mags will be separate from loaded carry mags. Am I anal?

Helter Skelter
Feb 10, 2004

BEARD OF HAVOC



Perhaps, but it's not like that's a bad thing at all in this case.

BitBasher
Jun 6, 2004

You've got to know the rules before you can break 'em. Otherwise, it's no fun.

Elendil004 posted:

Why Concealed Carry magazines?

Even if you have a tiny 7 round mag in the gun...if you fire off all 7 rounds and are still engaged...you're doing something wrong, that's a police shootout, not a self defense situation.

My carry gun is not tiny, I carry a USP40c. Compared to the weight of the gun, the weight of an extra mag is pretty incidental. There's no compelling reason not to carry a spare magazine in my opinion.

Also, I work for the police. I know how fast they respond to things, and that's one of the reasons I like to carry.

Elendil004 posted:

How many of you practice drills to drop the empty mag, reload and get into a position to fire regularly enough that you could do it under pressure?

Like said above, but this bears repeating: Everyone that carries a gun should do this. It's the responsible method of behavior for someone carrying a lethal instrument with them concealed on their person.

Everyone that carries should be practice drawing, shooting, clearing jams, reloading, failure drills, and reholstering often. In order for the gun to be any good, these actions need to be performed outside the realm of conscious thought. I think that anyone that carries concealed should neglect basic skills. gently caress, just stand up in front of a table while watch House or 24 and run through those basic motions while dry firing and not looking down at your gun.

Elendil004 posted:

Don't get me wrong, carry what you want but I just think its silly.

And I won't argue that your opinion is wrong, I just don't happen to agree with it. I honestly never thought about carrying a spare mag until the trainers at work recommended it strongly. Their own logic was basically that if you're going to carry, don't do it half rear end.

kwantam posted:

Here's one for y'all: do you carry +1? Specifically, do you chamber a round then top off the mag?

Yes I do, because I'm not lazy.

mrbill
Oct 14, 2002



Diver Dick posted:

I took mine around the same time, and I'm still waiting on my permit. I wrote my state representatives and about four days later I got a call from DPS. They apologized profusely for the delay, told me they had personally called Trooper So-and-so in Harris County and promised to overnight my permit as soon as it is complete.

That's what I had to do, too. Emailed my state rep on a Thursday. Got a call from someone in their office on the following Monday, and a call from DPS on Tuesday saying "its here in my hands, going out today". They actually mailed it that Friday, and I got it in the mail the next Monday (right before Christmas).

166 days from receipt of application by DPS to when they mailed the license.

drzrma
Dec 29, 2008


Lessons learned by getting my CPL:

Research past first. Despite a single fuckup in the past, which kept me from firearms for three years, learn the rules, find the county you screwed up in. The county you hosed up in should have records available, find them and make sure you have no warrants. If they don't, and you think things may not be completely resolved, pay a lawyer to inquire. In most cases, information will not be given over the phone, and the local police are more than happy to have you come in to discuss it, and be arrested. I was lucky and got it sorted out when I was there, I was just ignorant of the laws and frightened.

If you've had a run in with the law, a lawyer is good. Once you're sure, wait a reasonable amount of time, then bug people. Do it politely, but be insistent.

Then, don't be cheap bastard and buy a drat gun belt before you expect to carry. Still kicking myself for that. Prior proper preparation, etc.

walrusman
Aug 4, 2006



When I carry my Sig P226, which isn't very often because I only have a lovely holster for it and it's a big gun for the way I usually dress, I always carry it with a round in the chamber, a full mag in the gun, and another full mag in my pocket. That's 25 rounds of 185gr Golden Sabers. Is that more firepower than I'll ever need? Absolutely. But I like the mag in my weak-side pocket to balance the weight slightly, and as long as I have the mag I may as well carry it, right?

I used to just drop a round in the chamber and slam it shut, but I have since converted to the school of feeding from the mag and then topping it off. Why? Several reasons.

TFR gave me several compelling reasons why manually chambering a round is a bad idea, when I asked this question so long ago.

1) Doing it this way means you have to snap the extractor over the rim, which takes more force than feeding from the mag, which ideally slides the round up the bolt face. This might result in more frequent failures to go fully into battery; if you failed to notice you weren't in battery before holstering your gun for a long day of fighting crime, man, you'd be screwed.

2) Because you have to snap the extractor over the rim of the chambered round, you are wearing out your extractor by forcing it to move in a way that it was not designed for.

3) By snapping the steel extractor over the rim of the brass case under heavy spring tension, you are wearing material off of the rim of the cartridge. Too much of this, and the extractor can no longer get a good grip on the cartridge. This means you'll fire one shot, get a case stuck in the chamber, feed a new round, jam the gun, cause serious setback to the next round, and probably get shot while you're loving around trying to clear the jam. Apparently it has happened a non-trivial number of times, especially to police who were never trained why this was the wrong way to load a gun +1. This is likely because police officers load and unload their weapons a lot, leading to increased wear on the rim of one specific cartridge.

For these reasons, I never +1 my gun this way. I always, always, always insert the mag, rack the slide, decock the gun, drop the mag, top it off, and put it back in.




I took the class the ended up counting toward my OR CHL from Gary Crane at Marksmanship Consultants in Ridgefield, WA. My brother and I got a 4-hour class as a Christmas present from our aunt, and this guy is great. He trains for Portland PD and holds a ton of world records. He showed us targets that he'd shot to win various international competitions...we're talking three-inch groups at fifty loving yards with a snub-nose revolver, holy poo poo. The class we had wasn't anything specifically about CCW, but he did give plausible answers to the few questions I asked him. There was lots of shooting involved, using his extensive collection, and my marksmanship definitely improved from having him as a teacher. A++ would receive course as gift again.

Illegal Clown
Feb 18, 2004



Nill posted:

If you're going to carry with the chamber loaded then you might as well carry with a full mag too.

As for carrying extra magazines? My general feeling is that for single stacks it might be prudent, for 16~18 round double-stacks it's a little much.

If you can't depend on your carry gun working on the first mag then it's time to get a different gun. If nothing can assuage your paranoia then that next gun should be a revolver.
Carry a spare mag, but remember if you need to reload for any other reason than a magazine failure then you're quickly leaving the realm of justifiable self-defense.

My take on it has been that I am conflicted with two sides of my personality. My paranoid side is always worried that I'm going to get into a a huge firefight with someone so I need lots of ammo. My rational side knows that stupid and that in a situation like that I would only need a couple shots. In any real serious situation I would run away. I would only need one extra mag at most and not cram mags into every pocket and duct tape them to my chest. I compromised by getting an 18 round flush fit magazine for my 92FS and carry +1. I also have another with a +2 follower that I carry in my pocket. That way my paranoid side is happy with the 39 rounds by only having one extra mag. With my CZ-82 I usually carry two extra 12 round mags. They're small enough so it's not like they're heavy or take up much space.

I know it's lame but it's more a psychological thing than anything else. I feel a bit more secure having a little more ammo just in case even though I will never need any of it.


kwantam posted:

Depends on your gun. If you do this on a 1911 you will eventually break the extractor (mostly true of internal extractor designs; externals may be betterdifferent about this). Safe answer is no.

Yeah, the gun wasn't exactly designed for that, but feeding from the mag. I've put one in the chamber before and slowly closed the slide. I seem to remember reading my Beretta manual, or somewhere, that it could be used to fire single shots if the magazine malfunctioned. That seemed a bit silly to me.

kwantam
Mar 25, 2008

-=kwantam


walrusman posted:

I always carry it with a round in the chamber, a full mag in the gun, and another full mag in my pocket. That's 25 rounds of 185gr Golden Sabers.

You could get 18 + 1 with one of the Mec-Gars available at Midway. I've got one and they're high quality mags (Meg-Gar manufactures the factory mags for SIG).

ETA: regarding "N rounds is a police shoot-out, not self defense," in Texas it is permissible to use your carry weapon to assist peace officers. I wouldn't personally recommend doing this, but it is within the realm of possibility that you might somehow legally involve yourself in a police shootout (on the side of the police, obviously).

kwantam fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Jan 9, 2009

walrusman
Aug 4, 2006



kwantam posted:

You could get 18 + 1 with one of the Mec-Gars available at Midway. I've got one and they're high quality mags (Meg-Gar manufactures the factory mags for SIG).

Fo-tay.

Helter Skelter
Feb 10, 2004

BEARD OF HAVOC



kwantam posted:

You could get 18 + 1 with one of the Mec-Gars available at Midway.
I have Mec-Gar 15rd mags for my P228, they're quality. I'm kinda tempted to grab a couple of the 18rd P226 mags for general loving around. Having 34rds of 124gr +P HST on tap (15+1 in the gun, 18 spare) would also be kinda funny, even if the chances of me ever needing even a tenth of that is incredibly unlikely.

kwantam
Mar 25, 2008

-=kwantam


walrusman posted:

Fo-tay.

D'oh my bad

On the upside, Wal-Marts around here have basically NOTHING but .40 S&W on the shelves, at least for handguns. Maybe one or two boxes of .38 Spl. The 9mm and .45 are being snatched up at an alarming rate.

skitzed
Oct 8, 2004
I don't know what I'm doing.

Who makes better belts, Comp-Tac or The Belt Man?

Any other really good options out there?

Dalrain
Nov 13, 2008

Experience joy,
Experience waffle,
Today.


skitzed posted:

Any other really good options out there?

Wilderness Tactical's Instructor Belt ordered extra-stiff is supposed to be pretty good according to my CCW instructor. ( http://store.thewilderness.com/index.php?cPath=43 )

Helter Skelter
Feb 10, 2004

BEARD OF HAVOC



skitzed posted:

Who makes better belts, Comp-Tac or The Belt Man?

Any other really good options out there?
I can't speak for Comp-Tac's belts, but I love my Belt Man belt. It's comfortable and it's plenty strong enough to hold whatever you want to hang off of it. In addition, it actually looks like a normal belt, unlike some of the alternatives (such as the Wilderness Instructor Belt or Liger Gun Belt), so you can wear it with slacks and such and not look like a dork. I've had mine for about a year now, wearing it daily, and it still looks almost new.

The optional velcro lining is also nice if you have a holster with velcro clips that can take advantage of it, namely the Comp-Tac CTAC and MTAC (though I think there are also a few other makers out there offering them these days).

Fat Ogre
Dec 31, 2007

Guns don't kill people.

I do.


Dalrain posted:

Wilderness Tactical's Instructor Belt ordered extra-stiff is supposed to be pretty good according to my CCW instructor. ( http://store.thewilderness.com/index.php?cPath=43 )

I know where I'm getting my next belt from now. Thanks

Schigolch
Apr 30, 2008

Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the Lamb, make thee?


I carry a PCR in a blade-tech UCH on the same belt I have used for years. Nice thing is the belt is leather stitched onto canvas webbing so it is much stiffer than either by itself would be. I'll get a beltman gun belt sooner or later, and would also like a leather IWB to see if I like it better than this UCH. The UCH works ok and has great retention but I am not crazy about how it sits against me. (Perhaps one from K&D, anyone heard anything about them?)

PPD6576
Dec 21, 2008


Fat Ogre posted:

I know where I'm getting my next belt from now. Thanks

I have two of their belts. I like the version with the extra rows of stitching. It stiffens up the belt a bit and makes for an easier draw. You cant go wrong with The Wilderness. I have several of their bags and they're built like tanks. They guarantee everything they sell and their customer service is great. I'd recommend the Giles Bag too. My wife calls it my "man purse" and it sits next to me on the passenger seat wherever I go. I keep an extra mag, Surefire, Swiss Tool, first aid kit, OC spray, cuffs, etc. in there. I've had mine for 13 years. It's invaluable.

JEEVES420
Feb 16, 2005

The world is a mess... and I just need to rule it

I carry a USPc .40 in an in waistband Galico holster at 8 o'clock. 12 in the mag and 1 in the chamber, condition 1. I keep a spare magazine in the Truck.

I keep wanting to buy a MTAC but I keep thinking of things to spend the money on.

Fog Tripper
Mar 3, 2008

by Smythe


Ophidian posted:

Best CCW gun: G19
Best CCW IWB Holster: Comptac Minotaur (MTAC)

Thread over.

Best CCW gun: The Sig 239 I personally own
Best CCW IWB Holster: Comptac Minotaur (MTAC)

Fog Tripper
Mar 3, 2008

by Smythe


ArmaliteSpade posted:


Comp-tac CTAC will work, but they don't make a MTAC for it sadly.

Wouldn't a MTAC for a 229 fit a 225?
(I have a spare P229 kydex shell for a MTAC if anyone is in the market)

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DJ_Ferret
May 1, 2006

The living pipe cleaner

My carry rig is as follows:
CZ 75 SP-01 with the Mec-Gar 16rd mags +1
Blade Tech Ultimate Concealment holster at a 45 degree forward cant
Galco something-or-other instructor belt.

I'm thinking of shopping around for a smaller gun for summer carry, and picking up a Minotaur. I was thinking G19 or CZ P01.

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