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Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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as long as we're talking jogging/sumemr carry, what good options are there for a small pocket gun that is *not* in .380 and also not heinously expensive? i was looking at revolvers because they can get pretty small and still shoot .38spl +p.

i currently carry a g19 in an MTAC, which i summer carry by just wearing untucked collar shirts. its working so far, but it hasn't gotten nearly that hot yet...

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Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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DJExile posted:

Most tiny 9mms are of the G26, PPS, or Kahr variety, but I doubt any of them would be small enough to pocket carry.

Your best bet is a good k-frame or Ruger LCR.

yeah, I am not convinced that g26 or a Kahr would be a significant improvement over the g19 for summer carry, though the slimness of the PPS intrigues me.

time to start lookin for a snubby.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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HotCanadianChick posted:


I *think* he's fired mine at least once before at one of the PNW meets. I think he did.

i dont quite remember TBH. but next time we do a shoot i'll make sure to do so.

im in the uncomfortable position of really wanting a summer gun but being unsure of how to pay for it. might sell my AK to do so, so i want to make sure i get the right one and not end up with something that sucks and also be minus my sweet commie bullet hose.

DJExile posted:

Seriously, give this a try. It's a fantastic combination that hides under drat near anything.

as it is my g19 conceals in relatively tight t-shirts with minimal effort but if the pps is a better deal size-wise than a wheelgun i would be worth saving up for it. i already have plenty of 9mm JHP.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Itchy Itchiford posted:

About the only thing I haven't personally tried is a snubby. If you spend the money (read: a LOT) you can get one of the tiny Kahrs and pocket carry. If you want something bigger than .380 and like commie guns you can still find the Polish P64s for under $200 if you look. I pocket carried one for about a year or so and the only downside is the weight. It felt only a little larger than the P32 I carried and was easily concealed in jeans.



Loaded with some Hornady 9x18 it was very manageable and quite accurate for such a small pistol.

Terribly tiny picture with a P32:



I shouldn't have sold mine, but it funded my first AR.

I was looking at cz 82s for basically the same reason.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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STAT1C_X posted:

^I moved from Benton to Multnomah, but actually lived out near Clackamas for a while and really enjoyed the PSTC. Great facility and great dudes that worked there, but I couldn't afford their fees + the cost of the ammo they made you buy

they had reasonable-ish prices for "buy it here" range stuff but the fees are pretty over the top. we took reedies there for along time but we are re-thinking it as our relationship with them has deteriorated somewhat.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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just get a glock 19 in an mtac already. im skinnier than you and carried to a bar to watch the world cup today - sat on a bar stool all day and didnt print. just wore a collared shirt with a long-ish tail.

if you area dead married to T-shirts that probably wont conceal your waistline, look into an LCR or j-frame S&W in .38spl. the ruger LCP is pretty cool too but i personally am not a giant fan of .380 so i have yet to jump on that bandwagon.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Mr. 47 posted:

Yeah, and I love it when I ask for impressions about a firearm, and everyone wants to tell me about holsters.

carrying is 75% about the belt and holster, 25% about the gun.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Mr. 47 posted:

I'm shopping for a pistol that fits my lifestyle, not the other way 'round.

then buy a ladysmith

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Mr. 47 posted:

I'm shopping for a pistol that fits my lifestyle, not the other way 'round.

seriously though nobody's "lifestyle" is magically adapted to carrying a gun unless you already have a job that involves doing just that. it is not a whole lot of effort to buy a decent belt and a decent holster. i have not changed the way i dress at all and i still can conceal a glock 19 with my mtac/belt, and my belt is poo poo.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Mr. 47 posted:


So... for concealed carry, given that I'm most likely to carry on my ankle, what is everyone's impression of the Ruger LCP over the LCR or other "pocket pistols?"

the LCP is small, snappy, has absolutely usesless iron sights and is chambered in .380. and FWIW you WILL notice an ankle holster more than a decent belt holster no matter what is in either.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Cyrano4747 posted:

it's worth noting that iron sights are pretty pointless on a carry gun anyways. I consider them somewhere after the color of the grips in my hierarchy of "poo poo I look for in a carry weapon."

Seriously, most carry guns could have them ground completely off and it wouldn't be detrimental to the use of the gun in an actual self-defense situation.

i mean, statistics would back you up, but gently caress that. i like aiming and also not hitting things i dont want to hit. not having sights makes that hard.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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lifenomad posted:

If your primary objectives are, no 9mm, ankle/pocket carry, small yet reliable, the LCP is pretty much the only player in town.

if he doesnt like 9mm there is absolutely no reason that he would like .380.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Schigolch posted:

He doesn't like 9mm because it OVER penetrates in his opinion, you were not paying attention. Which means .380 or .38 special are what he is looking for.

any defensively useful cartridge will by nature overpenetrate.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Captain Log posted:

If I ever have to shoot a whale with hollowpoints I'm going to assume that my day has gone pretty badly.

or fuckin AWESOMELY

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Count Sacula posted:

Crosspost from the newbie question thread, this is where I meant to post it. Irony++

So I'm in the market for a CCW setup and I'm torn. I'm set on 9mm so I'm torn between the Glock 26 and the Walther PPS, but also checking out the Ruger SR9c and Taurus PT709 Slim, despite their lack of TFR-approval.

I'm a fairly big guy (6'3" 200lbs) but I live in FL and have to dress somewhat professionally from time to time so I really want a compact. I'd like to keep it at or around $5-600, and I have to get a holster too.

I got some positive feedback on the PPS in the general questions thread but that was before I went out and fingerbanged all these. Any others I should consider?

glock 19. you shouldn't bother with the 26. i am 5'10 and 145lbs (on a good day) and i carry a glock 19 all the time, no issues, in an MTAC.

and frankly, teh PPS was not significantly small enough to tempt me as an alternative gun for carry. it's only .14" thiner than the 19 and you have half the mag capacity for a gun that goes for 1-200 dollasr more. get a used g19 for 400-450, an mtac for 80, spend the rest of mags, magpouches, and ammo.

from the searching i did, the only gun that would be smaller enough than the g19 for me to consider purchasing it as a 'deep carry' gun would be an LCP or something of that size. anything else was well enough within the dimensions of the 19 to make it not really seem like a worthwhile purchase.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Count Sacula posted:


Kommie: I really want a smaller gun, especially the grip. I think the chances of me printing because of the larger grip are far greater than the chances of me getting in a gun battle where I need more than 8-9 rounds.

fair enough. look at the PPS then, the g26 is still standard glock thickness which will get you into more trouble with printing. though, again, i am skinny as gently caress and i never/rarely print with my g19/mtac combo.

i really do like the PPS, and you are right about mag capacity, i just couldnt justify splashing out for it myself when i already owned the 19.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Count Sacula posted:

Every good TFR post starts with a sexually ambiguous question.

I don't really want to get a P7 just due to the cost. From what I've seen they start around 7-800 then I need to accessorize. I'd probably choose the P239 over it anyway.

So is the consensus that I should choose the PPS over the G26? I was surprised only one Glock fanboy showed up to the party. If anyone has a line on where I can grab one of these cheap that would rule. I've been scoping out GB every few days but I'm trying to shortsell my house so I'd rather pay cash...

if you are really concerned with printing then yes, PPS over g26. i am a massive glock fanboy (hence why i told you to get the g19) but if size is really that much of an issue then the PPS is the way to go.

i've seen them go used for 500 or so, but i doubt you'll get them much lower than that without some serious looking.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Captain von Trapp posted:

It's worth emphasizing this for new CCW holders: no one notices printing. People are oblivious, and even mediocre concealment will breeze right by just about everyone. Now you wouldn't want to conceal with skin-tight UnderArmour or something equivalent, but really it's pretty difficult to get anyone to recognize that you're carrying.

yeah, i am lucky in that i am a pretty oblivious person so sometimes i just forget that i am armed, but after about 3 weeks of tugging on my shirt tails and wearing excessively baggy clothing i realized nobody expects other people to be strapped up. makes carrying pretty easy really.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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GunForumMeme posted:

I was in a bar once sitting on a stool at a table and had a bouncer full on bump into the butt of my pistol as he was speed walking past me. I don't think he knew what he hit as he kept right on a going and nothing happened.

Note: P226 in a MTAC.

Fake Edit: No, I was not drinking.

the only time ive gotten 'made' was by a girl who already knew i carried and tried to slap my butt but missed and got my glock instead. we had a good laugh about it.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Mr. 47 posted:

Back in the early seventies, my Dad worked as a goon for a shady loan agency in Hattiesburg, Mississippi. Often times, he would bring his friend Dwight along as his backup.

My Dad and Dwight were trying to track a particular guy down and stopped by one of the guy's friends houses who was good for info. My dad and the snitch went in the back room of the little two room house, while Dwight stayed up front with a couple of the snitch's friends. Dwight described to me how one of the friends was really gregarious, laughing, telling jokes, and slapping Dwight on the back in a friendly way a couple of times. Then once under the arm, and then, while making a point, the funny guy tapped Dwight on the chest directly on the .38 he was carrying in his inside jacket pocket. The funny guy tapped the .38 again a few moments later, and then didn't touch him again.

Dwight and my Dad still talks about how it was the smoothest frisk they ever saw, and how stunned Dwight was when he realized that he was being frisked without even knowing.

whoa creepy.


whenever i am carrying i make a deliberate point of not letting people i don't know get within a certain physical distance of me, no matter how friendly they are. thanks for reminding me why.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Count Sacula posted:

Talk me out of this, CCW goons:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=175579481

It seems to combine all the features I want with a price that will allow me to splurge on a good belt and holster...

tl;dr Ruger SR9c yes/no?

no, ruger autos suck, and more specifically the triggers on the SR9 suck. also you are giving bill ruger money and he is a bitch, even in death!!

these are far superior carry pistols for cheaper than that.

http://www.summitgunbroker.com/K_snubs.html

otherwise I say hold out for a glock 26 or 19. i think we may have talked about why you don't want to carry a compact glock.... if we havent/ i could still convince you to carry something larger than a subcompact -

http://www.summitgunbroker.com/Glock_23.html

i hate .40 but i would rather you get a glock 23 than a ruger. and they're super loving cheap too, get the one with the holster wear because it doesnt matter anyway.

it's also worth mentioning if you get a glock/XD/other non lovely striker fired semi auto you will have a far easier time finding a good holster for it.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Count Sacula posted:

Yeah I think you're right, I just require girlish hand-holding in this process.

thats OK, it is understandable. a carry piece is a decent investment of money and it is a firearm that you literally are trusting your life to.

i suggest glocks because 1. they rule 2. they have a huge aftermarket 3. they are pretty much impossible to gently caress up and 4. you can buy a stock glock compact and they are already perfect carry guns, except maybe for the exception of their sights.

that is not to say there are not other perfectly great carry pistols out there but glocks are simply, all things considered, the least likely to suck in all of the important aspects of carrying a concealed pistol.

that said, make sure you enjoy shooting it! i highly recommend you rent whatever carry pistol you intend to purchase and put a few boxes of ammo through it before you buy it. that way you will know exactly how well you like it. there are other great carry pistols that you might be more apt to like for reasons of wrist geometry or simply personal preference. practicing with your carry pistol is *extremely* important, so make sure you enjoy doing so or else you will be setting yourself up for failure. or, well, at least disappointment, i guess.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Dead Nerve posted:

I've shot 5 different pistols that I'm interested in, all in 9mm.

H&K USPc
Glock 19
S&W M&Pc
Walther PPS
Sig 239

This is my first pistol and I want it to be something I can practice with a lot and carry but wont beat me up too much at the range. I really liked the Glock, H&K and Sig. I just cant justify the price of the H&K and Sig when the Glock shoots nearly as good.

SO I've made up my mind but now do I get the reliable/proven g19 Gen 3 or wait for the unproven Gen 4. If I wait for the gen 4 I'm very tempted to buy a Ruger Mark III or Browning Buckmark to work on marksmanship until I can get my hands on the Gen4.

So TFR is it worth my time to wait for the g19 Gen4 or just drop the money on the gen3 right now?


I would just get a used gen3. save yourself the money and the wait. gen4s are sweet, dont get me wrong, but nothing about them strikes me as being worth the extra money and time.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Count Sacula posted:

Alright so it looks like I'm picking up a slightly used Glock 26 tomorrow ($525 out the door for 2 mags and a paddle holster), is the MTAC what I want to order?

Yes. If i can still convince you to somehow get the g19 i will do my damndest but the MTAC is the holster you want regardless.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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kuffs posted:

Buy the slide version in case you change your mind someday

or he could buy the 19 kydex so that he can still holster the 26 and also fit a 19 without bumping the muzzle up and out.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Count Sacula posted:

So no downside to wearing the slide version as long as I am IWB?

umm not particularly, i mean, i own the 19 version so i am not sure. i suppose i can envision a scenario in which the front sight post gets caught in fabric or something, but somebody with the slide version can correct me. I think, though, that the 19 version will also fit the 26 but leave more space at the muzzle, which might be the more sensible one to get, if that is the case.

if i was home in portland i'd take a better look but i wont be back until weds. night.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Count Sacula posted:

Picked this bad boy up this week, ordering MTAC probably tonight. Thanks for all the help, CCW goons...





you have chosen most wisely my son. go forth and do good in the name of Gaston Glock. also pinky extensions rule.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Uncle Caveman posted:

I do have a G19, and despite the TFR groupthink "it's-not-that-much-smaller" viewpoint, the G26 w/ extensions is still more easily concealed. I carry at 3:00 w/ a forward cant; the shape of the backstrap is what is most likely to print when leaning forward. For the past two years (up until a few months ago), I ran a small restaurant and absolutely did not want to risk printing in front of customers.

what kind of restaurant? this is a relevant question. i really like food.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Count Sacula posted:

I'm in love with my new 26. It shoots straight and true and is tiny as gently caress. I may actually attempt to use my new MTAC(slide version for max penetration) as a fleshlight when it gets here.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Mr. 47 posted:

I'm not as concerned about printing, but about my CCW poking out when I lean the wrong way. I like a lot of IWBs, but the pistol still sticks out a bit. I think a pocket holster is the only way to go for me, even though I hate losing the pocket space.

depending on the holster/the angle you wear it at, you can sometimes get it flush with your body.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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is now the appropriate time to discuss the ballistics of .380 for CCW? Because I've always been kind of on the fence about it.

i mean, i carry a 9mm, so I am not exactly in the 9MM EUROPELLET group, but something about .380 always left me feeling a little undergunned. i dont really have a ton of hard facts to back this up, which is why im curious to hear people's opinions on the matter.

a pocket carry pistol would make my life way, way easier, in certain respects, especially, like Cyrano, given my lifestyle/professional aspirations.

also it'd be nice to hear people who pocket carry different .380s and what they think about their respective models.

i've fired my friends LCP a few times and i found it to be not all that bad for a carry-only pistol. that said i fee llike i'd be more inclined to blow the money on an LCR over an LCP just based on caliber alone...

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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does anybody prefer anything else in .380 to the LCP for pocket carry?

i was looking at the Taurus 709 Slim 9mms.... i know its a taurus but i figure it cant be any worse than a kel-tec pF9

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Here in Oregon the only time i see no-weapons signs is at OHSU, where I work. it's also probably the only time I listen to said signs.

I asked a public safety officer @ OHSU about carrying to work, and after thanking me for my candor and expressing approval for my desire to carry to work, he said that the worst they would be legally capable of doing to me would be escorting me off campus. As a CHL holder, carrying in a posted no-gun zone can at worst amount to my expulsion and perhaps a trespassing charge if the owner was that much of an rear end in a top hat.

I still don't carry at work for professional reasons, but otherwise I don't think I'd pay any attention to private store policy. its unlikely i would get made anyway.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Another curious question I have -

When did you decide to apply for your CHLs? What do you carry, and why?

I know this sounds like a silly ARFcom poll thread but I am always curious as to how people arrive at the decision to arm themselves in public and how they choose to do it. I am kind of a behavioral science nerd I think but psych was too boring for me.

I also recently stumbled upon this youtube video -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqS6OFuUXe8

about the Chris Newsome and Shannon Christian murders. They were pretty grisly and awful and, about 12 minutes in, the parents describe how everyone they know applied for CHLs afterwards. Some people, I suppose, it takes that sort of thing to make people decide to arm themselves, so I was wondering what the catalyst was for other people who decided to carry.


I'll start -

I started loading my shotgun at night when there were 2 shootings in a 3 week span a few blocks from my apt. building at the time. Both killed individuals who were otherwise safe and asleep in their homes. I also invested in a TLR and a railed mount for it because I figured if I was serious about it, I may as well do it right.

This ended up naturally progressing into applying for my CHL. It took me about 6-7 months, principally because I couldn't justify the expense, but after my my friend was solicited for sex/threatened at a bus stop, I wrote a check to the multnomah county sheriff's office and, well, now I carry a glock 19. why I carry that particular gun is mostly because I shoot well with it, it's light, and 9mm is cheap. so there you go.

Kommienzuspadt fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Sep 4, 2010

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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infrared35 posted:

Before Michigan invoked shall-issue, way back when I was working in gun sales, I applied for a CCW on the grounds that I was regularly transporting over $10,000 in guns, ammo, and accessories (not to mention a a couple thousand in cash or so) and it made a tempting target for robbery. The county prosecutor where I lived was extremely anti-gun, and when I went before the gun board to defend my application, he simply asked, "Have you ever been robbed before?" To which I answered "No." He said, "Then there's no reason for you to have a CCW." All his doctor and lawyer buddies could have CCWs, of course.

Still before shall-issue, I started my present job but for several years wasn't technically allowed to carry off duty under my regular authority because nobody had signed off on my off-duty carry training. Different county, pro-gun prosecutor, and I had a CCW.

Then, after shall-issue came into play, I kept it up mostly to make it easier to buy guns because a Michigan CPL lets you skip the most annoying parts of purchasing a handgun in this state.

tl;dr version: No real watershed moment, just wanted one for a long time and finally got one.

Have you always simply been a big proponent of self defense? I suppose I am mostly curious as to what point people decide to actively defend themselves with a firearm. Not that there's anything wrong with what you said, I am just principally curious because I know it wasn't something that I had always thought of, even though I've always been into firearms and the idea had crossed my mind before. It simply took me a little extra push before I actively began to provide myself the ammunition/gear/training/card that I needed to do so.

iyaayas01 posted:


I don't say that to sound like some macho tough guy, because I understand that a) the chances of that ever happening again are slim to none (thankfully) and b) if it does happen I'm not going to wade in guns blazing because I have a substantial legal (and moral) obligation to ensure deadly force is justified, but I'd rather have that option than not have it, both for myself and any situation I happen to come across.

Also perfectly legit and I feel the same way.

Yesterday there was a fire outside my house here in SE Portland and of my housemates, I was the one that called 911 (instead of assuming somebody else was going to do it) and ran towards the fire to make sure everyone was OK. It was just some bushes that had caught ablaze in a rather impressive way, but I didn't really think about how stupid it was to run towards a fire until I had already done so (in a pair of shorts and my undershirt). I think it's probably the catholic upbringing...

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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cornface posted:

My wife and I both had people in other lanes hit our targets at 7 yards. I don't understand how that is even possible unless you are just closing your eyes and hoping for the best.

i guess if you literally ignored the sights, put the gun out in one hand towards the tagret and just let your hand muscles spasm a bit, that would probably do it.

honestly I would not be upset if they made some very basic shooting proficiency standards a requirement for all states CHL classes.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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i bought a factory-2nd MTAC belt and its awesome. really good value i think for 50 bucks.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Boner Wad posted:

How do you like the Comp-Tac one? I've heard good things about those belts.

i got one of the factory 2nds, its the best. i ordered it a little short but its awesome and, like most factory seconds in the shooting industry, i cant really figure out why it got rejected. not gonna look a gift horse too hard in the mouth though.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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infrared35 posted:

Just some food for thought. Everyone's experience is different, but if you carry a small (though adequate) gun for its convenience and you actually find yourself in a situation where you KNOW you might have to use it on somebody within the next ten seconds, you might find yourself wishing you had brought a bigger gun.

that is why I carry pretty much exclusively my glock 19.

i've considered other guns, from .38/ .380 pocket guns to slimmer 9mms, but frankly if i am already going to be carrying around a gun I may as well do it right.

it only really gets hard in teh summer when there is a chance that sweat or humidity might cause my shirt to cling to me.

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Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Kodo Zoku posted:

A friend of mine, who I am reasonably responsible for convincing her to get her CCW, recently did so. She was talking about the class she took with me, and mentioned that her instructor told her to carry her spare magazine in a jacket pocket on her draw side. That way, when she has to sweep the jacket away to draw, there's a weight in the pocket to make the jacket go WHOOOOSH all slo-mo like a badass. Or at least that's what I heard.

Has this instructor watched too much John Woo, or is there some validity to this? It sounds really dumb to me- carrying your space mag on your draw side, and also the whole sweeping the jacket away thing. It seems like wasted motion to me, when you could just be going straight for the pistol.

Keep your mag in a magpouch but it is still a good idea ot keep something in your jacket pocket.

Not necessarily because it helps weight your jacket so you can brush it back (though despite everyone's noisy protest, it does) but because it also keeps your jacket down and over your pistol and less likely to blow straight back if you walk into a gust of wind. I usually put my cell phone or keys or something in that pocket.

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