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briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Micromancer posted:

Recommendations received at recent carry class were show your permit with ID every time you are asked, whether you are carrying or not. Your TN permit number is your DL, so when your name is run, it comes back with both. By not identifying yourself as licensed, it implies to the local LEOs that you are hiding something rather than not actually being armed or deciding on discretion.
What exactly are you avoiding by trying to remain armed through an encounter with law enforcement?

Illegal Clown posted:

Yep, hands on the wheel at 10 and 2. Give the officer the required papers including the CCW card. Don't say anything about having a gun unless he asks where it is. Don't move your hands or say you're going to do anything with the gun unless told to. If the officer says to leave it there then leave it, if he says to remove it then do that, if he wants to remove it then let him. Drawing the gun without being told to is just inviting yourself to get shot. That cop wants to go home safely just like everyone else.

A combination of these two is what I was told at my TN permit class; the instructor was a TN highway patrolman. We were told it was professional courtesy to inform the officer simply because, and he was speaking from his own personal experience, that they tend to draw on the first sight of a gun. He also hinted that if you didn't, and it later came out that you had a gun on you, then the cops were a bit more suspicious in the sense of "what else is this person not telling me?"

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briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

JEEVES420 posted:

Take this with a grain of salt.

I have been pulled over for speeding and was given a ticket, he even thanked me for handling the stop so professionally.

I also had a Dallas officer draw his gun and point it at me while screaming "Where is the gun; Where is it!" when I handed him my IDs.

Also in Texas when the officer runs your drivers license it tells them you have a CHL. So even though you don't have to provide your CHL if you are not carrying it is good practice to do so anyways.

Reading this reminded me that I did get pulled over once after I had my CCW permit. I wasn't carrying at the time, so the conversation went something like this:

"Need to see your license, sir."
"Alright" *pulls out license, CCW permit is visible behind it*
"Anything else I need to know about?"
"No, sir."

And that was that.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Lord Commissar posted:

Some in-state CCWs don't exempt you from NICS either. New Hampshire.

TN

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

The rundown of TN's CCW in bars stuff goes like this (I've underlined the most relevant sections, but for clarity I've quoted entire sections):

TN Code Annotated posted:

39-17-1321. Possession of handgun while under influence — Penalty. —
(a) Notwithstanding whether a person has a permit issued pursuant to § 39-17-1315 or § 39-17-1351, it is an offense for a person to possess a handgun while under the influence of alcohol or any controlled substance.

Don't drink and carry your gun.

Specifically regulating guns in bars, the relevant section is here, but it's not been updated on Michie yet. Currently it says this:

TN Code Annotated posted:

39-17-1305. Possession of firearm where alcoholic beverages are served. —

(a) It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm within the confines of a building open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages, as defined in § 57-3-101(a)(1)(A), or beer, as defined in § 57-6-102(1), are served for on premises consumption.

(b) A violation of this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(c) The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to a person who is:
(1) In the actual discharge of official duties as a law enforcement officer, or is employed in the army, air force, navy, coast guard or marine service of the United States or any member of the Tennessee national guard in the line of duty and pursuant to military regulations, or is in the actual discharge of duties as a correctional officer employed by a penal institution; or
(2) On the person's own premises or premises under the person's control or who is the employee or agent of the owner of the premises with responsibility for protecting persons or property.



According to this pdf, the above section will be amended to read the following:

(It's already in effect, just for some reason Michie hasn't updated)

quote:

SECTION 1. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-17-1305(c)[The section I quoted above], is amended
by adding the following language as a new, appropriately designated subdivision:
(3)
(A) Authorized to carry a firearm under § 39-17-1351 who is not
consuming beer, wine or any alcoholic beverage, and is within the
confines of a restaurant that is open to the public and serves alcoholic
beverages, wine or beer.

(B) As used in this subdivision (c)(3), “restaurant” means any
public place kept, used, maintained, advertised and held out to the public
as a place where meals are served and where meals are actually and
regularly served, such place being provided with adequate and sanitary
kitchen and dining room equipment, having employed therein a sufficient
number and kind of employees to prepare, cook and serve suitable food
for its guests. At least one (1) meal per day shall be served at least five
(5) days a week, with the exception of holidays, vacations and periods of
redecorating, and the serving of such meals shall be the principal
business conducted.


Thus, what you typically conceive of as a restaurant is where you can carry. It's pretty cut and dry and it's a decent definition of a restaurant.


Now, keep in mind that lots of places have put up signs banning guns on the premises, and from what I can tell it's just about anything goes as far as signs are concerns. Most of what I've seen is the universal "gun with a red circle and slash through it" type sign. Unlike other states that require specific sorts of signs, anything goes in TN. All signs count:

TN Code Annotated posted:

39-17-1359. Prohibition at certain meetings — Posting notice. —

(a) An individual, corporation, business entity or local, state or federal government entity or agent thereof is authorized to prohibit the possession of weapons by any person otherwise authorized by §§ 39-17-1351 — 39-17-1360, at meetings conducted by, or on property owned, operated, or managed or under the control of the individual, corporation, business entity or government entity. Notice of the prohibition shall be posted. Posted notices shall be displayed in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the building, portion of the building or buildings where weapon possession is prohibited. If the possession of weapons is also prohibited on the premises of the property as well as within the confines of a building located on the property, the notice shall be posted at all entrances to the premises that are primarily used by persons entering the property. The notice shall be in English but a notice may also be posted in any language used by patrons, customers or persons who frequent the place where weapon possession is prohibited. In addition to the sign, notice may also include the international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle. The sign shall be of a size that is plainly visible to the average person entering the building, premises or property and shall contain language substantially similar to the following:

PURSUANT TO § 39-17-1359, THE OWNER/OPERATOR OF THIS PROPERTY HAS BANNED WEAPONS ON THIS PROPERTY, OR WITHIN THIS BUILDING OR THIS PORTION OF THIS BUILDING. FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THIS PROHIBITION IS PUNISHABLE AS A CRIMINAL ACT UNDER STATE LAW AND MAY SUBJECT THE VIOLATOR TO A FINE OF NOT MORE THAN FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($500).


So as long as it's plainly visible, it counts.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

What is a good way to keep a gun in a vehicle? I've seen metal boxes roughly the size of a book that lock and attach via a steel cable, but if they're able to get into the car, then they likely could cut the steel cable.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Count Sacula posted:

So tell me TFR, what would you do?

http://www.foxlabs.com/pepperspray.shtml

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Sturdy posted:

What's the general consensus on a CZ-82 as a carry gun? From what I understand they're very reliable. Are there any issues with the safety?

Wasn't there a guy that carried one and it discharged and he very nearly blew his nuts off?

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Helter Skelter posted:

Re: signs, it depends on the state.

In TN, any sign goes.

The legislation passed to allow carrying in restaurants also has a provision that allows restaurants to restrict the carrying of concealed weapons in their establishments. This provision basically says that any sign, from the "official" one outlined in the law itself, to one that is worded similarly, to even a simple circle-and-slash over a pic of a gun will work, and is legally binding provided the sign is in an obvious spot (on the door, etc).

Penalty is being charged with a criminal act and a $500 max fine.
Sign stuff

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Micromancer posted:

I re-read this since you linked it I figured it had changed. No where in that link does it say post what you want, and it works. Signs have to be in English. Signs have to contain "language substantially similar to the following [huge gently caress off disclaimer]" meaning a simple gun no-circle isn't enough. It does mention signs may also include them, but by saying also it implies (or at least I infer) that it can not stand alone as the sign itself.

Am I wrong? Am I just dense and reading this wrong? I'd much rather prove again I'm retarded than break the law so by all means I'm down to get schooled.

I was going from memory and was wrong about the circle and slash part. It simply says that it has to be "substantially similar" to the example given within the law. It would really depend on whoever interprets it as to what substantially similar means.

So yeah, I was off the mark some; but then again I posted the law as a CYA move in case I was wrong.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Micromancer posted:

I'm not calling you out or anything - I carry everywhere here and would really like to not actually be breaking the law. I'm quite interested in C'ing my A, and as such was just making sure I wasn't off base was all

Although, when I say everywhere I mean Autozone, Wal-Mart, Fast Food Resturant X. The only mildly questionable places are Pizza Hut and Raphaels both of which serve beer. Far as I know last July we were allowed to carry there and I don't drink like ever not even at home so it's really not a problem.

I also found out the bank I use isn't FDIC insured, they use some other thing and when I asked them right after I got my permit if it was cool to carry there they said eh, try and keep it concealed but yeah feel free.

I do not run into places that have signage of any kind let alone non-compliant / strict letter of the law kinds.

You got lucky, then. I can't really carry in restaurants here.

Here's how the law breaks down:

39-17-1305: 3A says that you can carry while in a restaurant that serves alcohol as long as you yourself are not drinking. It also gives the definition of what a restaurant is; basically what you'd typically think of as a restaurant.

The thing is, though, is that 39-17-1359, the sign stuff, gives business owners and the like the ability to post a sign prohibiting permit holders from carrying on their property. Immediately after the "carry in bars omg" bill was passed, every restaurant and bar put up a "no guns" sign, which effectively means I can't carry in restaurants now.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Roundboy posted:

all businesses are private, and as such can ask you to leave. I think PA does allow you to carry in bars or places where they serve alcohol.

Here in TN, it's a Class A misdemeanor ($2500 fine or 1yr jail). It's more than being asked to leave



Fog Tripper posted:

TBCO, I rarely even notice signs in PA.

Micromancer posted:

The only building I have come in contact with this year that had any kind of No Guns sign was Harton Hospital. The sign was also completely non-compliant, as it was pretty much just the No Circle. I didn't bother leaving it in the car.

Small town TN is pretty chill. I bet if I went anywhere with a decent population, there would be far more instances but I live in a really relaxed town an hour and a halfs drive from 3 major cities but with not poo poo in the town itself.

They're everywhere around here... I kind of had half an idea to go around to all the restaurants near me and take pics of the signs. I've not seen a place without one

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Maybe my grip safety is out of spec, but it requires little effort at all to press. I don't get all the fuss about it, honestly. And if my hands were hosed, I don't see myself being able to pull a DA trigger on a revolver any more than operate a gun with a grip safety.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Cyrano4747 posted:

My father-in-law's 1942 vintage 1911 has a grip safety that goes in with little to no effort. Basically if you put your hand on the grip, it's in. If you don't have your hand on the grip, it's out. *shrug* Maybe it's old and worn out, though.

Maybe. I don't really know. When/if I replace mine, I'll compare the two.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

poopgiggle posted:

OK so found a sweet deal on a J-frame. Moving right along to the next issue:

Pocket holsters. Tell me some good ones. I know lots of people like the DeSantis Nemesis, but I've read reviews saying that they were a little bulky. People on this and other forums also seem to like the Galco Pocket Protector, and quite a few people on the defensivecarry.com forums have a hard-on for Mika pocket holsters.

I carried in a DeSantis Nemesis, and I liked it. I don't see how it could be construed as bulky. It's basically a thin layer of material over the gun itself, with a tacky outside to stick to your pocket. There's a little extra material to bring it to a square shape so it breaks up the image a little.

Honestly, if anything is bulky, it's the gun itself. I don't see how adding just over 1/8" of material to the gun takes it from not bulky to bulky.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

infrared35 posted:

What if your net connection is down, then what? THEN WHAT?!

Then the terrorists have already won.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

J-frame pocket carry is my preferred method of carrying. With a desantis nemesis, a j-frame concealed nicely for me. The holster broke up the guns profile. It looks like a bunch of keys or something. It's really unnoticeable.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

I'm debating either a Glock 19 or a CZ75, and I'm leaning toward the CZ because I found a really pretty good deal on one online/locally. What are my holster options for a CZ75 IWB holster?

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Micromancer posted:

In 12 days, youll get the chance to shoot my G23 so hold off until then and you'll be able to see if the grip angle of the 19 agrees with you.

Haha, I am. I don't have the money for either of them... yet. I am enticed because of their layaway plan...

PS: I'm pretty sure the grip angle agrees with me. We'll have to see, though.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Thought about asking the holster review thread, but I guess that should be mainly for reviewing holster and not asking things like this:
What's a good IWB/OWB holster for a Ruger SP101 with a 2" barrel? I'd prefer leather over kydex. I'm just looking for an alternative to pocket carrying. Not that PC'ing is bad, I prefer it, but it's always fun to change it up I guess.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

In my situation where I'm more concerned with encountering animals, would it be a bad idea to load up with 38spl or 357 WCs as opposed to JHP? I was thinking of making my first shot a WC with the rest being JHPs, but if WCs are decently effective against people, then I might load my entire cylinder with them. Animals are a greater concern than people along empty stretches of interstate in my area.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

thermobollocks posted:

What kind of animals?

I'm concerned about running across a feral animal of some sort, like a dog, when I stop to change a tire or something. Nothing big, really.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Well someone's touchy about their no-name pistol.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Scarecrow411 posted:

Easy, but time consuming.

Keep in mind that you're dealing with small amounts of time. Semi auto cleaning can be boiled down to 'lock slide, run boresnake through.' revolvers can't do that, obviously. It's not like one takes a minute and the other takes an hour.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

JohnMosesBrowning posted:

like my grandpa always told me "Revolvers for fun, semi-auto for a business gun"

Grandpa's dumb. Sorry.

In other words, unless your grandfather was someone notable, like Elmer Keith, then that logic is a lovely appeal to an illegitimate authority and means diddly.

briefcasefullof fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Mar 2, 2011

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

DJExile posted:

I've heard fine things about the Comp-Tac 2 O Clock holster.

Oh man, finally an IWB holster for my SP101. Wish I could find a leather one, though.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Locus posted:

P3AT.

Get it... like... P-.380??



:w-hat:

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Carried for the first time in a long time today SP101 in a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster. I'm digging it pretty well, though a belt holster is in the works for sure. Who makes a good speedloader holster? Speedstrips are nifty, but have a couple good speedloaders on my belt would be nicer.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]


I'm glad he didn't get too seriously injured, but that was pretty dumb of him. He knew the crease had been forming. If I noticed a crease or fold developing near the area that covers the trigger of my gun, then I'd get about replacing that holster asap.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

DJExile posted:

Safeties are always easy to fail or work loose. At the end of the day, 99.9999999999% of guns don't "just go off" as long as something isn't inside the trigger. This guy was a moron for recognizing his holster had a massive problem and assuming he'd be OK until he could find a new one.

Seriously. I'd feel worse for him if it happened on the way to Cabela's or something to get a new holster. But he ignored it and got shot.

I asked in the holster thread, but I'll ask here: Simply Rugged Sourdough Pancake holsters - yay or nay? Someone here had one but damned if I remember who. Thinking of getting one for my SP101 with IWB clips and the basketweave pattern.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

TheChaplain posted:

I think it's oddly ingenious. I also think it's going to have a certain psychological impact on anyone who sees you deploy it. "Holy gently caress this guy is crazy."

I never want any sort of 'tacticlol' stuff, but, oddly enough, I want that pack. I think it's neat as hell, honestly. I wouldn't actually use the pack, but it'd be neat to toy around with.

E: Not $300 neat, though. http://www.aresarmor.com/install/ecom-prodshow/RADPACK.html

briefcasefullof fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Apr 16, 2011

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Who makes a decent speedloader holster?

I'm thinking about ordering one of these for my SP101: http://www.simplyrugged.com/silver-dollar-pancake/
Good, bad? They're cheaper than Galco and Comp-Tac's offerings, and custom leather is always a good thing. Anyone own one?

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

What in particular makes the aholster better? (I hope that doesn't sound dickish, I'm genuinely curious)

I've carried my sp101 in one for a while now and love it, though the sp101 is bigger and looks more like a gun in my pocket due to its size. I'm only considering swapping to IWB so I can use my pocket for useful things, like keys.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Custom leather is A Good Thing (tm). I've been thinking about getting one of Simply Rugged's holsters for my SP101. I thought someone here had one but I guess not. They look well made and when I get mine I'll post pics, etc of it.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

My SP101 is really too big to pocket carry, so I'm going to move it to IWB. But, I feel like if I do that I should probably upgrade to something with a higher capacity. What would you do - use the revolver IWB or change to a semiauto (for me, a Glock 19)?

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Black Stormy posted:

Your SP101 will probably be easier to conceal. I could actually conceal an SP101 in a Galco OWB under a loose t-shirt. My Glock pretty much has to be IWB.

I suppose so, but I feel like I'd rather have the gun be IWB anyway just to keep it as close as possible. I'm a , too, so my shirts aren't really long enough.

Any other opinions, oh great internet? I have a lengthy pro/con list of the two.

Ruger SP101 - .357 Magnum Revolver:
+ I have lots of reloadable brass for it
- $30 for 100 rounds (100rds being the minimum I want to shoot in a range session)
- No time to reload = no time to shoot = buying ammo = higher range cost, or no range trip
+ I want a "beater" gun to shoot and put a lot of wear on
+Keeping means not putting wear on my S&W revolvers that I inherited from my grandad
- Reloading lower power loads anyway would keep wear to a minimum - besides, guns were meant to be shot
- I only shoot 38spl - would a dedicated 38spl gun[ie, one of my S&Ws] suffice for fun time at the range?
- I already have a beater gun to put wear on and reload for, my Redhawk
+ It's a revolver
- Bobbed hammer
+++ Mostly carry in my truck. It's true.
My range time for just this gun would be ~$45 at a local indoor range

Glock 19, 9mm semi-auto pistol:
- No desire to reload 9mm now
+ $20 for 100 rounds
+ My range time for just this gun would be ~$32 at a local indoor range.
+ "Buy and shoot" - No time to reload? Just buy a box and shoot it. Only thing cheaper is 22lr
- Higher range costs in the long run
- Who would trade? Trading would probably cost me money.
+ More accessories, lots of cheap accessories (It's very very common gun in a super common round)
+ If I am going to move up to carrying my gun on my belt instead of in my pocket, I might as well increase my magazine capacity
- I'd have to buy a holster for it
- If I got bored with my 1911, why wouldn't I get bored with this one?
- Ammo isn't as cheap as 22lr
- I haven't shot one in forever. It feels nice in my hands, but how does it feel to shoot? How well do I shoot with it?

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

rifles posted:

Bobbed hammers are a good thing for CCW. The hammers can do lots of fun stuff, including snagging on a draw, and the most fun sounding, jamming up into your ribs and side when you bend over for something. With a short barrel revolver, you have a lot of options for IWB. An SP101 would be pretty much perfect for IWB appendix carry.

Woops. I should explain that one. I know why bobbed hammers are a good thing. I bobbed mine myself, and while I did a fine job of it and didn't do any other bubba'ing to the gun, a potential buyer might see it as a red flag. Or may not want a bobbed hammer.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Shedman posted:

Both are good choices.
Only pro I would add is many more holster options out there for the Glock.

I keep waffling on it. I'll just wait a while and buy a Glock and have both.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

infrared35 posted:

I just picked up a BLACKHAWK! IWB for my J-frame Smith. It's pretty nice.

Gimme details. Good? Do they make one for a SP101? Cheap enough that I could try IWB carry before investing custom leather?

E: gently caress. Never mind. Not cheaper than other options, and not for a SP101 :|

briefcasefullof fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Jun 12, 2011

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Good luck with that. I hope what happened here doesn't happen to you.

TN passed restaurant carry, so we can now carry in restaurants and such, which is great. Except the law also allows restaurants to post 'no guns' signs - anything goes as long as it's "easily seen" - and ban guns from their restaurant. So all the restaurants put up signs after it was passed and we're back to square one.

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briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Micromancer posted:

It also depends on your area I think as well, as I've not seen a sign in a 30 mile radius. In fact, the only sign on any building I've seen that wasn't straight up some kind of govt office or something was the hospital.

It has to. All the restaurants in Memphis have them, national chain or otherwise.

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