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AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

I've got a 229 Elite that I can throw some slim Hogue grips on i/o the fat wood grips. I'm 6'3" and about 215. Does this sound like something I can likely conceal in the Texas summer?

Somebody should make a height/weight/concealable? webapp for questions like these. I don't want to spend $85 on an MTAC w/ body for a 229 without knowing for sure.

Obviously I don't carry it yet, but I use Speer Gold Dot +P for HD in 9mm.

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AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

CoolBlue posted:

What do you wear in the Texas summer? Obviously a T shirt of some sort, but do you tuck them in? How long are they?

Wife beaters and kilts. Or a t-shirt or polo and cargo shorts. No vintage stuff anymore so not really fitted shirts, not that I would try to conceal anything under something that tight anyway.

Zorblack posted:

If it is too much to want both a grip safety and a dual action trigger, I think I would feel most comfortable with a DA/SA trigger with a decocker (once the hammer is safely down, is there a difference in guns that have a decocker and those that can just have the hammer thumbed down?). I think there's a place called freedom armory nearby that rents guns and has an indoor range, so if I get a good laundry list I'll go there one weekend and go hog wild.

It's not necessarily that you're asking too much but that there are few guns with that particular combo of safety measures (XD...?). No there is no difference in hammers, but IIRC it's not good to thumb down a hammer on either. See what points naturally in your hand and what fits you well, as this will be more important than the types of safety measures and both qualities could be mutually exclusive.

AR fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Jan 8, 2009

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

kwantam posted:

Perhaps some people in this thread would care to chime in on where they got their CHL/CCW/CCP/(whatever your state calls it) training, for the sake of those who are just getting started.

I did mine with Ross Bransford, http://www.chl-texas.com

ARC goon? I'm a member, but I'm taking my class this month up in DFW w/ Mr. Gilreath -- http://www.chltx.com/

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

kwantam posted:

No, but I was thinking of joining at some point. Lately I've been shooting at Red's because I got a shiny new membership from a v.v. generous benefactor.

I don't want to take this thread too far off topic, but you have e-mail disabled in your profile. Drop me a line. I almost got the Red's membership but for the price, ARC just made sense (although I'd gladly do a year at Red's for free). I miss the powered-targets, but I've also shot a lot more than paper at ARC :D

Back on topic, ARC is a local club that has a range (austinrifleclub.org) -- they teach some great supplementary CHL classes. Not classes for the license that is, but training after-the-fact.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

Sturdy posted:

I know this questions has been asked 10000000000000 times, but I have to ask it again

what would be the best option for a concealment holster for a Sig P225/P6?

As long as we're talking 'best' I've never seen that question asked without MTAC being the general consensus. As for a 225-specific holster though, I'm not sure.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

Fog Tripper posted:

Wouldn't a MTAC for a 229 fit a 225?
(I have a spare P229 kydex shell for a MTAC if anyone is in the market)

If it's for the 229 w/ rail, I am in the market. reed dot adam at gmail dot com

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

porkface posted:

It almost never fucks up holster fit unless you've found some crazy plastic holster for the PPK/S.

Drop me a PM if you run into troubles.

I have a CT question for you as well -- I got that Kimber Carry model and the batteries died within the first week of ownership. It could have been a display gun (most are), but I was also wondering if when the manual states '4 hours of use in the ON position', does this mean the switch is on, or the switch is on and the button depressed with the laser illuminating?

If it's just the switch, it could have been me leaving the switch on and not noticing that killed the batts. Otherwise, some gun shop may have just had too much fun playing with this pistol before it sold...

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

porkface posted:

4 hours constant on, up to 5 years shelf life. I've have one on my desk that I play with all day long and have had for nearly 3 years without changing the batteries. Leaving the master-switch on does not affect battery life, so it is recommended that you leave it on all the time.

Often what happens is that the hard cases many of those guns come in will activate the laser and drain the batteries before they ever get to you.

PM me your address and I'll send you some new batteries. If it happens again then we'll take a look at your laser and see what's up.

Thanks again for the follow up on this over IM. For everyone else -- chances are good I just got a heavily played-with gun, or some bum batteries. I'm trying a second set and if they die early CT will check out my grips, otherwise it just confirms theory #1.

The activator for these grips is also in the finger groove, so it's pretty difficult to unintentionally kill the battery.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

kwantam posted:

A minor nit: they have to derive 51% of their revenue from the "sale or servicing of alcoholic beverages to be consumed on the premises." You will sometimes see liquor stores and gas stations put up 51% signs, and it's actually illegal for them to do so---there's a number on the 51% sign to call on people posting them fraudulently.

The rest is very correct---even one drink can get you in SERIOUS trouble because there is no lower BAC limit. If a cop sees you take a sip of a drink while carrying he could make the case that you were breaking the law.

Agree. The good thing is that if he can tell you're carrying anyway, you're already in trouble. However, should you have to pull your piece and you're in the wrong place or doing the wrong thing... you might actually be better off just letting yourself get robbed/shot :D

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

Craptacular posted:

Not really. All current law does is legally prevent you from using their parking lot if your car has a handgun in it. Don't use their parking lot and you can carry back and forth from work all you want. It's what I do.

I'm not commenting on their legitimacy because I haven't read anything on my own, but my workplace (TX) has rules on the books against bringing weapons in the building, even though our parent office is located down the street from NRA HQ...

While I believe they've been on paper for a long time, it probably didn't help that a few years ago a coworker brought in a new pistol to show off to everyone:
1) muzzle sweeping everyone he showed it to
2) bringing in two identical mags, one empty, one loaded - and while explaining that he could tell the difference, was surprised to find the loaded mag in the weapon
3) pointing it (not even just sweeping) at a new, liberal female coworker

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

porkface posted:

That is epic.

It should be noted that this was when we were mostly managed by some small town Texas guys, so on Fridays during deer or turkey season you might find a bow in somebody's cube, or very rarely a shotgun case... but yes, this was fairly ridiculous even for their standards.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

Count Sacula posted:

There are all sorts of attacks on seniors down here, especially from robots. (old lame SNL ref.)

You realize that old lame SNL reference is one of the roots of SA culture right? The pusher robots? Ring any bells?

I would think that even as a contractor you represent the company in those situations -- and that customer complaints would probably shorten the length of your tenure with the company. So, conceal very well, or carry your seat around with you at all times to be safe.

Fake edit: you definitely have a contract that tells you this.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

Yeah, I've definitely played that one over a few times in my head. Really, I'd hate to lose either of mine, but no more than I'd hate to be in that situation. Neither is an heirloom or collector's piece, so I suppose that in far hindsight in that hypothetical situation I still wouldn't care.

As far as court costs, doesn't the NRA support members financially in those situations? Another org? Am I full of crap?

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

kirisu posted:

I had a question about what to do in a situation that hopefully won't ever happen again. I do not have a CCW yet but if the situation ever came up after I get it (soon, hopefully) how should it be handled?

I was walking out of the store last night and walked right into two cops with their guns drawn and pointed at me, yelling freeze. Apparently the 7-11 cashier had accidentally set off the alarm right before I walked in.

What would you tell the cops if they asked you if you had a weapon or were patting your down?

They will teach you this in your class.

(Texas) -- You would probably say "CHL" asap - this lets them know in most cases you're a good guy and you're armed. They should ask for your ID first, at which time you are required by law to present them with your DL AND CHL. They will then ask you where you are carrying, you tell them 'yes', tell them where, and then ask them if they would like to get it or if you would. In Texas there is a lot of professional courtesy between cops and CHL holders so they should not panic, and you should ask how they'd like you do to it ('do you want me to clear it?', etc).

In Texas they are allowed to disarm you but they cannot keep your CHL permit or weapon unless they're arresting you for something else. They must return it before they leave.

I just took my class last Saturday, and they tell you if you are pulled over to turn on your cabin light (if at night), roll down the window, hands at 10-2. The cop knows you're a CHL holder when he runs your plate, so be courteous since he knows you are most likely armed.

I was very surprised to learn about some of the laws that protect CHLs in Texas. In keeping with your story, if the police were to use "anything above the minimum force required to disarm" you, you are legally allowed to draw your weapon and defend yourself. Now, while legally protected, I can't imagine anyone living long enough to go to the grand jury for this one, but it's very interesting to know that the legislature put it on the books.

kirisu posted:

That is pretty much what I figured, I just couldn't figure out how to say "I'm legally carrying a firearm." without it sounding bad. I'm just going to say, I now know why people freak out when they get swept (not that I've done it). I just about poo poo my pants, even from 10' away those barrels look huge.

One of the gentleman in my class talked about how he watched a person shoot a man in the head right in front of him. The shooter then turned the gun on this guy for a few seconds but chose to flee rather than shoot him, too. He and everyone else who had been in a similar situation all commented that the barrel looked like a giant black train tunnel when pointed at them. I hope I never find out for myself.

AR fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Jan 26, 2009

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

JEEVES420 posted:

This is incorrect. My friend who is a Fort Worth officer told me that it does not come up when they run the plate. It does come up when they run your license so you should always give him your CHL with your ID, carrying or not.


kirisu in that situation I would not suggest mentioning you have a CHL/gun until they ask. Just keep your hands in the sight and do exactly what they tell you. I can just imagine an officer hearing CHL or GUN and firing.

I'll have to check this out again, as the Instructor made a point of mentioning it and said it was confirmed by man of the cops who have taken the course as well - we were in South Arlington, so I assume those would be DPD/FWPD officers.

As far as announcing CHL you're not legally required to, but if the cop thinks you just robbed a 7-11 and then finds out after taking your IDs that you've been standing there armed, they might not be happy. I guess they probably won't be happy either way. Poor cops.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

GroovinPickle posted:

There is no middle ground: you must either carry a full tactical arsenal (minimum of 3 guns and 50 total rounds) plus first aid kit plus a fire extinguisher, or you should carry nothing more than a single key and a $5 bill.

When I took my CHL class the instructor wore a 4" 1911 on his hip OWB, a revolver in his pocket and another on his ankle. Former Marine Gunnery Sgt.

Recently I was wondering if I could carry my full-size 1911, so I e-mailed him about it. His reply "I carry a 4" on my hip, a 3" in my pocket and a 5" in the small of my back. Find a place to put it and stick it there." That 3" is a 1911, not the aforementioned revolver. That's 5 guns.

I e-mailed back to see what holster he used for the 5" in the SOB. His reply, "Holster?"

I could probably start an entire thread about this guy - he's awesome. When describing the 51% signs and how the bar inside a Chili's for example can't legally post one, and about how the allowed BAC in Texas while carrying is 0.0, he gave these two gems:

- "I never drank much but I've given it up completely now. I'd much rather have a gun than a beer."
- "Sometimes I go to Chili's pull up a seat at the bar, order a coke and a hamburger and just wait for somebody to start acting up."

One more.

He talked about how if you do have to pull your weapon you should yell "CHL" so the other good guys don't shoot you. He added, "Plus, I'd be pissed if I realized there was something going on and I didn't get to shoot. If you yell 'CHL' as you're emptying your mag into the guy, that gives me a chance to run over and empty my mag, too."

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

Elendil004 posted:

Yeah you could write a thread about how he shouldn't be instructing people on safe and proper gun use.

Oh good, you read what I wrote. He laid out the law straightforwardly, but it's not as entertaining as the ... entertaining ... bits.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

lokigoesrawr posted:

This is awesome. You should make that thread.

I may have blown all my material prematurely. The only anecdotes that come to mind right now both regard the legality of 51% and 30.06 signs.

He suggested that if you ever see a 51% sign in a liquor store, to do what he does when he finds one:
1. Ask for the manager.
2. When the manager shows up, ask him to make you a margarita.
3. When he says that's illegal, tell him you're calling the TABC and having his liquor license revoked unless he removes the sign immediately. Apparently the TABC will do just that if they find it, but who knows when they'd find the time to bother.

As for 30.06, he explained how the letters have to be 1" tall and the text must appear verbatim in both English and Spanish. It's the law.

He said that a good friend of his runs a printing company and that they get a lot of non-specific requests for 30.06 signs. All of this friend's employees know they'll be immediately fired if any of the letters on the 30.06 signs they make are bigger than 3/4". That one's actually pretty cool, not really crazy.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

kwantam posted:

Hospitals in Austin and San Antonio have valid 30.06 postings at their doors. I used to work in a building with a proper 30.06 sign, but the company moved to a building without one. Of course, since no carry is company policy, it really doesn't matter for me that they haven't posted a sign.

Yeah, this is hit an miss so far. I haven't seen a real 30.06, and I know my wife's hospital doesn't have one, but I've heard all the others do. In Ft. Worth there's apparently a hospital with 20-foot tall white letters above the main entrance of its building that basically describe what they'll do to you if you carry a weapon in their hospital. Of course... it's not even slightly legal.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

king of the bongo posted:

texasccw.jpg


Where/what do you carry the Springfield in? Getting more and more used to the idea carrying my Custom Carry II over the Sig.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

I might be wrong, but I don't think the holster matters as much for body type as it does for style of dress.

I use Speer Gold Dot +P for 9mm defense ammo. 45 is Winchester SXT.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

Helter Skelter posted:

The MTAC works for skinny bastards and fat fucks alike. I carry my P228 in one, and I'm about the same build.

As for ammo, I'm partial to Federal HST. I'm currently packing the 124gr+P load. A 50rd box usually runs around $20 when you can find it in stock. If I needed something I could grab off the shelf locally, it'd probably be Speer Gold Dots.

I think I paid $22 for 20 Gold dots... a local DPS Sergeant buddy told me to buy Speer and +P, otherwise I didn't really have a reason for purchasing anything. Just FYI, he also mentioned that you should save the box that your defense ammo came in along with your receipt. In the chance that you do end up using your weapon in self-defense, it saves a lot of time at court.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

My CHL instructor was a huge proponent of .45 ACP > all for defense/ccw purposes. I don't know the source, but he showed some police dash-cam video of two officers attempting to catch and restrain a slowly-fleeing subject who had an unknown pistol-shaped item in his hand.

We watched the vid with audio off, and it looks like they draw down on him, chase him across a parking lot while trying to get a grip on him -- he spins a few times to escape, and eventually falls on his butt and stays seated.

With audio on, you can hear them shooting him a total of 27 times in the back/chest from 6 feet or closer. He died shortly after, but for the majority of the 30-second video he's walking briskly and not stumbling at all. They said that he was not on any drugs (most assume PCP or something was involved). Not sure what the cops were using, but it was chambered in 9mm.

Now, assuming the details were correct, no matter which caliber I go with that makes me want the best JHPs money can buy...

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

porkface posted:

Given a 19% or so hit ratio for cops that makes sense.

Yeah, the convenient store in the background was rubble by the time he fell down... but the point stands.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

They didn't even tell us the passing score for the TX CHL. Our test included single shots and "double taps" from 7, 10, 15 and 25 yards, marking all hits in the 8 ring or better. In this case a double tap was exactly the same as a single shot only the shooter stressed out because they thought they were doing something different (some of us actually did two quick shots).

Scoring is -1 for a hit in the 7 ring, -2 for a hit basically off target. If you missed the target completely it did not count against you because they didn't count the total holes in the target - shots fired. Out of 250 points, 6 of the 8 of us that took the class together scored 250. The other two were 245+.

One woman we did not know scored a 210 or something, and she passed. I've heard that passing is somewhere around 175, which means you shot outside the silhouette 36 times out of 50? Hopefully I'm wrong on that because I do not want that person carrying near me.

I'd assume VA is very similar.

Edit: If you go to the range ever, you'll pass. Brand new shooters can pass. You don't get a 'better' license no matter how you pass -- perfect is the same as one over passing.

AR fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Mar 12, 2009

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

Basher - do most of the casinos have no-carry signs or is there a state law against carrying in a casino? I love Vegas, and I'd honestly have to look again but I believe NV has CCW reciprocity with Texas. I'll be looking to go back sometime soon and would absolutely carry if I were able.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

Nafix posted:

In Texas we are REQUIRED to present any peace officer (or magistrate) with our drivers license and CHL permit when he/she asks us to display identification. Failing to do so can result in the suspension of the permit and being charged with a Class B misdemeanor (Texas Government Code Section 411.205).

If you don't have a weapon on you, you're not require to notify. Seeing as how "asking for your license" is asking you to identify, yeah, show them during a traffic stop.

Edited: for accuracy

So, I'm still waiting on my license in the mail, but my instructor, cop buddies, and CHL buddies all suggested ALWAYS showing your CHL to the officer especially in a traffic stop. Cop buddies say it's professional courtesy to let CHL holders off, buddies say they've gotten out of a few tickets each...


Strange about that Austin CHL class and their shooting portion. I took the class in January and the format was what I described. Maybe it's up to the instructor now?

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

I would never disrespect someone doing that job, and to an extent risking their life every day... but it would be very difficult for me to not same something stupid to that trooper. I would have definitely snapped if while she was fumbling with it to re-holster it she'd gotten anywhere near the trigger, or swept me.

Why in the world would she empty the mag? Is this some brand new narcotic-finding practice? Do people really fill a snap cap with coke and put it at the bottom of their magazine? Was she looking for some cop-killer rounds?

Texas has a law that I'm repeating for the second time in this thread, that gives the CHL holder the right to draw his weapon and defend himself if an officer uses anything above the absolute minimal force to disarm him. I think that law should be extended to give the CHL holder the right to smack the officer upside the head for mishandling a firearm.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

Well, it was partially glossed-over to set up the comment that followed. I agree there is no chance you'd win an popularity contests if you happened to survive the encounter, but just thinking about the conversation the lawmakers had to have about including this law is awesome. I've never heard a story about TX cops being overly paranoid, but some states don't protect their CHLs very well, and those states are often the ones with the cops that flip out when they find out you're licensed.

It's like you showing somebody your hunting license and them drawing down and yelling about "where's the rifle? where's the rifle?!?!"

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

That... is... amazing. What a douchebag. Where in Dallas were you?

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

We were instructed just to remain polite and compliant, ask him if he wants you to retrieve the weapon or if he would like to - if he would like you to unload it, or if he would like to, etc.

Crazy CHL Instructor's version was "Alright officer, which gun do you want first? When you run out of hands would you like me to start placing them on your vehicle?"

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

All the conceal-ability stuff depends on body size and wardrobe just as much as the gun.

In order to get my fully-loaded Glock 30 to drop out of my MTAC I have to shake it 5-6 times upside-down. I have not tightened the retention at all, but you can do that. It does not move a millimeter when it's right side up.

The MTAC is great and all, but I don't agree with the "don't need a (beltman) gun belt" comment above. It's not going to hang/flop like a center-mounted holster and full steel weapon, but my MTAC + Glock 30 still has some sag when I wear jeans. The stiff-for-an-average-leather-belt I wear sags enough to make everything above the waistband print more. With a stiffer gun belt it doesn't budge at all, holding everything very tightly and evenly to my side.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

Yeah, unless you're crazed enough to get shot for it, politely ask the officer what he would like you to do at each step. Do you want me to remove the weapon or would you like to do that? Would you like me to step out of the car first? If he wants you to disarm and hand him the weapon, ask him 'May I make the weapon safe?'

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

At or around 3 o'clock my MTAC was an eyesore under a slightly loose-fitting polo shirt. Rolling it back around somewhere between 4 and 5 (haven't perfected this yet) makes it disappear. Also I think you have to take the "I am printing this much" factor and divide by 100 to get the real unsuspecting public printing degree.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

QuarkMartial posted:

A combination of these two is what I was told at my TN permit class; the instructor was a TN highway patrolman. We were told it was professional courtesy to inform the officer simply because, and he was speaking from his own personal experience, that they tend to draw on the first sight of a gun. He also hinted that if you didn't, and it later came out that you had a gun on you, then the cops were a bit more suspicious in the sense of "what else is this person not telling me?"

I will put a little Texas spin on this. There were police officers in our CHL class (getting their licenses as well), and our instructor had a lot of experience with the department. They all said that you're very likely to get a verbal warning over a ticket in Texas if you show your CHL. "Professional courtesy." A friend has been pulled over 4 times between Oklahoma City and Austin since he got his license and he has been let off with a warning every time. He is not a hot girl, and he does not cry, but he does always show his CHL.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

JEEVES420 posted:

I also had a Dallas officer draw his gun and point it at me while screaming "Where is the gun; Where is it!" when I handed him my IDs.

Yeah I remember that one. Hopefully the exception and not the rule. Didn't he get laughed out by his more senior buddies?

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

HotCanadianChick posted:

Police Officers don't need a CHL. At all. Ever.

There's a Federal law that gives all cops, even honorably retired ones, nationwide concealed carry rights. Even in places that don't otherwise allow people to carry, like Chicago.

Look up HR-218.

There has to be another reason other than the fact that they don't know HR-218 that would encourage these cops to take the class and what not -- quite a bit of Garland and Dallas PD has gotten licensed through this instructor. I don't mean to be argumentative here, because if there's another reason I don't know what it is. That's odd though.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

I'm 6'3". Banana Republic sells Tall version of all of their men's clothes online only. Those are the only ones I buy that are meant to be more than undershirts. However, t-shirts are too thin for me to conceal with.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

DJExile posted:

I got the confirmations on my order for an MTAC for my PPS. Have they been on a 10-day backup for a while now?

Or longer. When I purchased around 2 months ago it was 14-days. I got my e-mail confirmation of shipping after around 9 days.

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AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

Fog Tripper posted:

I keep thinking of ordering a Milt Sparks, but am afraid that in 20-40 weeks of waiting for it to be produced, I won't like the cant. Would be cool if I could tell them "this is how my MTAC is set up: make it at that angle/depth. Thanks!"

In 20-40 weeks all of our guns could be banned and then you wouldn't have anything to put in your holster... :tinfoil:

I can't carry my benchmade in my back pocket when I'm wearing the MTAC (4-5 o'clock) for the same reason, but it's not that big of deal. I just use my Glock to open boxes if they need a little opening.

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