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22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010



tehinternet posted:

How the poo poo are YOU not getting phone screens with a masters and experience?

Thatís wild to me.

I don't have a masters, but I do have 9 years of experience, and I haven't even gotten a phone screen from hundreds of applications this year. I've even started applying for normal tech support stuff just to have *something*, and nothing. It's so loving bad right now.

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A Frosty Witch
Apr 21, 2005

I was just looking at it and I suddenly got this urge to get inside. No, not just an urge - more than that. It was my destiny to be here; in the box.

22 Eargesplitten posted:

I don't have a masters, but I do have 9 years of experience, and I haven't even gotten a phone screen from hundreds of applications this year. I've even started applying for normal tech support stuff just to have *something*, and nothing. It's so loving bad right now.

This was mine as well. Over a thousand applications with 20 years of experience, with the last 10 being in director/management, and only ended up with like 3 callbacks over the course of 7 months.

It's really bad out there :smith:

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


As someone with LLM / knowledge graph stuff on my resume, I get recruiters reaching out to me all the time. They all want me to take a massive pay cut or move to NYC.

tokin opposition
Apr 8, 2021

The dialectical struggle of history has always, essentially, been a question of how to apply justice to matter. Take away matter and what remains is justice.
*laughs sadly in helpdesk*

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT
Are you guys throwing resumes at jobs on Indeed or LinkedIn?

The sheer number of jobs applied for seems insanely high. I've recently been browsing around in Indeed, for what I'm looking for, I'll only see a maybe 3-5 jobs a week that I'm even mildly interested in (or is more that 50% in my bread and butter column for skillset).

Edit: also possibility that my skillset is undesired.

tokin opposition
Apr 8, 2021

The dialectical struggle of history has always, essentially, been a question of how to apply justice to matter. Take away matter and what remains is justice.
Does anyone know *why* things are so bad and when they might get better?

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

tokin opposition posted:

Does anyone know *why* things are so bad and when they might get better?

Debt is no longer free. Once interest rates come down* there will be a lot more appetite for risk in the capital markets since investments are no longer competing with a 5% federal funds rate, which makes venture capital investments and the accompany ecosystem of software that surrounds growth companies much less attractive.

Also something something manufacturing. Remember that this is still a 3.8% unemployment economy, with most wage gains going towards low income workers for lower wage jobs. The tech downturn is very much sectorial and frankly healthy given the insane valuations we were giving to companies losing money hand over fist.


*which depends on further reductions in inflation, which in turn depends either on significant spending cuts, significant supply side gains (which requires calmer geopolitics), or significant productivity gains (hence the excitement for AI which promises the latter without the former).

The Iron Rose fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Apr 15, 2024

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


The Iron Rose posted:

The tech downturn is very much sectorial and frankly healthy given the insane valuations we were giving to companies losing money hand over fist.

I just wanted to highlight this comment really fast.

The hiring slump is absolutely affecting some sectors way worse than others, specifically "tech" companies and sv startups getting the worst of it, for exactly the reasons TIR laid out.

That being said, my opinion on the best way to job search these days isn't to rely on linkedin or other job aggregators.

Look for large orgs in industries that are still up, and apply directly on their job boards. Too many aggregator listings are stale or up for show, and any company that is large enough has an internal tech org.

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002

Norris'es are back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (fox Howl)
Just have to wait out this AI bubble to pop (it will). Right now C levels still have a boner for reducing headcount with AI AnY Day NoW!

Zorak of Michigan
Jun 10, 2006

Matt Zerella posted:

Just have to wait out this AI bubble to pop (it will). Right now C levels still have a boner for reducing headcount with AI AnY Day NoW!

That, and other open jobs are getting closed so the head count can go to AO projects.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


The Iron Rose posted:

Once interest rates come down*

Having debt be free was very weird compared to basically the entirety of the 20th century. I'm not sure they will go back to being free.

TheBacon
Feb 8, 2012

#essereFerrari

Matt Zerella posted:

Just have to wait out this AI bubble to pop (it will). Right now C levels still have a boner for reducing headcount with AI AnY Day NoW!

Considering all the long term commitments for space and units, I am not sure that it even can pop sooner than 2-3 years as that is how far out most of the DC production is as well as how far out commitments for hardware purchases have gone through.

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002

Norris'es are back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (fox Howl)

TheBacon posted:

Considering all the long term commitments for space and units, I am not sure that it even can pop sooner than 2-3 years as that is how far out most of the DC production is as well as how far out commitments for hardware purchases have gone through.

Not to derail the thread but they're already dogfooding synthetic data and faking presentations. It's coming baby. And it's gonna be loving hilarious.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

KillHour posted:

Having debt be free was very weird compared to basically the entirety of the 20th century. I'm not sure they will go back to being free.

I would be shocked if we stay at 5% or higher for the rest of the decade - thereís a lot of pressure on the fed to cut rates. The US is spending a trillion dollars a year on interest payments on the debt!

I agree we arenít going back to 0% interest rates anytime soon, and even Japan is exiting its negative interest rate regime. To bring it back to this thread, I really donít think the tech world is ever going to return to the halcyon days of 2021, but I do think weíll see slow improvements and demand in the sector over the next decade.

Iím a lot more bullish on AI than most people ITT however. LLMs are very useful tools even if the AGI stuff is all completely bullshit. I think that mostly leads to productivity gains for current engineers more than it means millions of new tech jobs however. This thread isnít a good place to have that debate on the merits, so Iím just going to say that I donít think it will have a big impact on open, new jobs in the tech world - with which I think AIís detractors will agree. Unless youíre one of the very few AI scientists out there, in which case enjoy your million dollar comp package at any large BigTech firm!

The Iron Rose fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Apr 15, 2024

The March Hare
Oct 15, 2006

Je rÍve d'un
Wayne's World 3
Buglord
I don't want to barge in like a contrarian dickhead but I am confused because I keep hearing about competent-seeming people applying to thousands of jobs with abysmal hitrates and it doesn't line up with my experience or the experience of peers I speak to.

Concretely, I had no trouble at all getting interviews 9 months ago. I have about 10 years experience on my resume and would consider myself below average compared to the people I've worked with in the past. Looking at my spreadsheet, I sent out about 20 carefully-selected applications before getting my current job and saw about a 20% interview hit-rate. All interviews went through final rounds, but of those I only received offers from my current job and one other (so 50% success rate, which is lucky for me over my lifetime but small sample here as current job was an absolute perfect fit so I stopped interviewing).

Zero of my applications were sent out via Linkedin or Monster or Indeed listings or whatever. I either reached out directly to recruiters I have relationships with or to companies via smaller job boards or their websites. None of the interviews came from my personal network and all of the jobs I picked were for senior web, FT remote, paying north of 160 w/ normal benefits.

I live in NYC and keep up with friends/former coworkers in the area and everyone is reporting similar experiences back to me over the last year or so.

I'm curious to hear what people applying to thousands of jobs and hearing nothing think the difference might be between what I've seen and heard and what they are experiencing. Is it a location thing, a strategy thing, a sector thing? Maybe some combination?

tokin opposition
Apr 8, 2021

The dialectical struggle of history has always, essentially, been a question of how to apply justice to matter. Take away matter and what remains is justice.
The difference is the 9 months probably. I'm in a worse spot than average since I'm a) helpdesk and b) only have 2 years on my resume, but I got two interviews out of hundreds of applications in the past 6 months, and that's for other helpdesk jobs - which sucks, since I've been consciously skilling myself for more MDM and Entra Admin skills for a while but haven't had nary a nibble despite having a pretty good spread of skills.

Gucci Loafers
May 20, 2006

Ask yourself, do you really want to talk to pair of really nice gaudy shoes?


For what it's worth, I'm a senior level-ish Windows/Azure/VMware/Terraform/IAM Engineer that got laid off from a large firm last year and just started looking for work after taking a year off after traveling overseas. I only seriously started looking for a new gig in February and I've got a lot of ups and downs. I am getting a decent amount of interviews, passing the HR part, doing well on the Tech part but I'm getting things like they don't have the budget, hiring freeze for the quarter or we really, really, like you but we're going with other candidates please try again. My LinkedIn used to be getting hit up way, way more especially last year often but down much more now.

Part of the reason that it's difficult is I'm looking for stuff that's in the PST Timezone and I feel like this market is saturated but I'm going to keep hacking at it for a while before I move for a job.

Edit - I went back and looked at my LinkedIn. I applied for 18 positions today after crawling through openings this whole afternoon. I'm pretty confident I can do the gigs and match a majority of the requirements. I'll update this later with how that turns out.

Gucci Loafers fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Apr 16, 2024

Hotel Kpro
Feb 24, 2011

owls don't go to school
Dinosaur Gum
I moved to Colorado in summer of 2022 and immediately started looking for an IT job since I found myself back doing calibrating BS. I had just under two years of help desk experience and while I got a few interviews and one lowball offer, it still took 14 months before I got another IT gig. I probably spent 30 minutes to an hour a night looking through job postings and applying to only a handful a day. I was willing to drive up to 75 miles one way and take a bit of a paycut if it meant I wouldn't have to deal with old HP power supplies and a janky resistance lag bath setup

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DeathSandwich
Apr 24, 2008

I fucking hate puzzles.
Wichita goon posting, with my last job hunt I had a pretty good hit rate on interviews (probably 60% or so) over the course of about 6 weeks, but I was also self selecting myself to stuff I know was in my wheelhouse - Ala between helpdesk lead and associate level sysadmin stuff.

The bigger problem is that there was only about 3-4 positions that were both in that pocket and didn't require DoD clearance level - there's an air force base here and a lot of the work is military IT contractors of various stripes - from Boeing / Raytheon manufacturing to various groups that work directly on-base.

While it's cheap to live here, bear in mind that the pay scale is also super depressed too. I make 70k in my new position (which granted is depressed by both the city AND that I'm now in a non-profit) , and were I in like Denver or Chicago I could easily clear 100k.

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