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Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



The long and the short of it is that Gunbroker has a decent interface, decent search, and attracts the largest audience by a wide margin. If you're buying on there it tends to be a TAD on the high end, price-wise, but that's mostly because the mouth-breathing hordes are also on there and tend to over pay for things. There are still good buys to be made if you know your poo poo and are patient, however.

The same slight inflation due to popularity makes it the best place to list things, period. It's going to be seen by more people than in any other venue, and it's cheap/free to list. I'd love to see something better come along, but unless it's able to generate the kind of traffic that gunbroker has it will never be a serious competitor - that's what keeps Auction Arms from pulling ahead as well.

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Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Miso Beno posted:

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=122760915

M1 Garand stock cartouche stamp WRA/RS

I find this slightly unnerving.

This has been going on for a long time.

You can buy stamps to make every cartouche used by US inspectors or the various arsenals from about 1890 through the vietnam war.

Basically you have to be able to judge the "quality" of the cartouche and tell the difference between how wood looks that was stamped 60 years ago and how it looks if it was stamped last week.

And yes, I've seen fake Garand stocks at gunshows with fake cartouches on them.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



King Carnivore posted:

It's just painful when you look on Gunbroker, find a fairly decent deal on something you want, only to discover that the rear end in a top hat on the other end doesn't want to sell to you because you committed the unspeakable crime of living in the state of California.

It's actually understandable with firearms because California makes it somewhat inconvenient for gunshops to import guns into the state, requiring a registration process, and I imagine fees, with the CA DoJ. If they don't see it as worthwhile to deal with that, fine, that's their prerogative. But for some backwoods fudd to deny me ammo, or brass or loving snakeskin because I happen to live in a state that passed an AWB before I was even old enough to vote is absolutely ridiculous.

There's this guy I know, and he can help you with that for a very reasonable fee

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



The King of Swag posted:

Could I make this decision if I had to? I have no idea, I've never had to and I pray to God I never do, but regardless if I could do it or not, I know what would be the right thing to do.

My father's a surgeon, and just based on what he's told me about decisions made by people dealing with terminally ill relatives, people on long term life support with no real chance of coming out of comas, and care for elderly relatives who have been on long term life support for years, I'll almost guarantee that the decision was made because of religious issues.

It's basically the "every life is sacred" argument. It's a god-given life and it's the responsibility of anyone who is able to to ensure that the sick person lives as long as possible. Before everyone gets all smug goon on this silly spaghetti-monster in the sky religion/superstition, a lot of this kind of Christian rationale is the philosophical basis for what became modern medical ethics.

It's a really, REALLY goddamned complicated issue and involves some really basic questions about what your personal beliefs are. My family knows my wishes on this sort of thing, and I know theirs - we've got the background through my father that we all want to be pretty clear on this and we all pretty much agree on not taking excessive measures to prolong life if there is no real hope of recovery of some kind. I'd personally rather not burden my family for decades as a vegetable. Again, this is a really, REALLY personal decision and I'm not making a judgment on anyone who chooses otherwise.

I really don't know what I'm trying to get at with this, but it's a hosed up, horrible situation to be in and while I might believe that I know how I'd behave were that my child, I'm just not going to make a moral judgment on what anyone else faced with that problem does.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



The Rat posted:

I just had to post this somewhere.

http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11628

The real funny part is that he wants $750 for it.

I love people who think they can add up the retail price they paid for all the accessories on something like that, throw in the base cost of the rifle, and call that the "value" and expect to get it.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



kuffs posted:

I see this poo poo all the time in the Craigslist Gold thread in AI http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2718513&pagenumber=68#post357105779

I guess people have a hard time understanding how the market works and just because you paid 2k for that body kit doesn't mean it's actually worth 2k.

But then again, the people in question almost universally have terrible taste.

people are loving dumb

Where you see this poo poo REALLY badly is the Arfcom EE. Yeah, you can get good deals there, but for every $20 carry handle there's 10 of them being sold for $5 less than what it costs to order one new - and you'd better be loving living at your computer to score the good deals, because a lot of those get bought up and then resold for a fast profit.

The best one was a few days ago when I was looking at stocks. Some guy had a Magpul UBR up there. He mentioned specifically that he "had it NOW" as opposed to all the places that were backordered and justified his price by pointing to what some local shop near him was selling them for. I think he wanted something like $270 for it, "virtually NIB."

The killer is that if you check off the "I'm a gunsmith without an inventory" box at Brownells you can get the same one from them for ~$230 after the discount. Yeah, it'll be a backorder, but magpul products from major online retailers like Brownells have actually been shipping after a few weeks of waiting. I just got a backordered MIAD from brownells after about 10 days on the wait list.

I mean, I guess if you need it NOW and don't mind paying an extra $40 for it, but jesus . . .

Oh yeah, when I looked at it again today it was SPF. Every minute a sucker and all that.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



HotCanadianChick posted:

Modern medical ethics came from the pre-Christian Greeks, namely Hippocrates (hence, the Hippocratic oath all doctors take). Christians didn't have poo poo to do with it, much like every other foundation of Western culture.


Without derailing this into a philosophy discussion, no, a lot of modern medical ethics don't come from Hippocrates.

If you want the philosophical and ethical roots of modern medical thought you have to look to the Christian tradition, no matter how uncomfortable that might be.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



EndofGoogle posted:

Thats hot but not 1-million hot, milsurplus butchery aside.

I know this is from a bit back, but drat that SVT/Draganov is retarded.

Not for milsurp bitchiness, but because the guy took the forward wood off leaving the gas piston exposed.

I've got one of those things. THere's a cover over the gas system for a reason. It's finnicky enough as it is and if you get sand and poo poo in there it could REALLY get to be a problem. It isn't anything that keeping a wooden cover over it won't fix 99% of the time, but leaving it exposed like that is just asking for trouble.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



gimpsuitjones posted:

Do you think he's really going to take that anywhere that he'd get sand in it?

Sand/closet lint/dirt blown on the wind at the range/whatever.

Any kind of material that can get in there will gum poo poo up pretty badly.

Unless he's shooting it in a clean room it's a bad setup. You don't have to drag something behind a truck in the desert to get poo poo caught up in exposed actions.

I've shot both my SVT and my K43 without the top handguard on while tuning the action at a covered bench at a pretty clean outdoor range and yeah, poo poo can get in there.

For something that's supposed to be a L@@K REPRODUCTION TACTICAL DRAGONOV RIFLE it's pretty retarded.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Gewehr 43 posted:

Fixed.

I fully refuse to believe that price was anything but a stupid joke that didn't translate well to the internet.

Any other option would just make my head explode.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Gewehr 43 posted:

Joke or not, I still want buttstroke the guy with his own Dragu-not abomination.

Yeah, it's a monstrosity, but at least he had the good sense not to cut anything up to do it.

Then again, I'm also the kind of guy who would have bought one of those crazy aluminum space gun drop-in stocks for my beater Garand (before I sold it) if they didn't cost north of $500.

I still can't believe he leaves that rod out in the open like that, though.

Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Mar 16, 2009

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Groda posted:

Does it have an actual gas tube?

Kinda, sorta, not really.

It's got a three part rod system. The gas goes through the gas port up into the gas bock, down a very short gas tube and exits out into a cup-shaped sheath that's fairly long. This cup sits on top of a rod segment which extends down the length of the gun and then pushes the bolt.

Pictures will explain it better:

Here is the front end of the gas system (the rod that disappears off to the right goes the length of the barrel and pushes the bolt)



Here you can see the rod removed from that cup thing.



And here you can see the cup thing taken off the gas tube and set down next to it.



The part he removed to make it look more like an SVD is a metal dust cover that was put there for a reason. All three of those parts are chugging along and moving together when firing the gun and it really doesn't take much to get debris down into the cup and between it and the gas tube. Once that happens it's going to get mashed around and mixed with fouling and turn into a nice gunk that will slow the cycling of the gun and cause all sorts of fun FTE/FTF problems.

The whole issue with the soviets not liking this rifle? Its because you had to keep those parts clean. The Germans took the time to do that and loved the gun because of it, enough so that they copied the system for the G/K43 with a few slight modifications.

But yeah, leaving that uncovered is retarded.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Groda posted:

As always, great answers!

Why do you think they didn't enclose the whole thing? The AK might not actually need its gas tube, but at least it's there to keep things more or less covered up.

I'm guessing something about cleaning. You can get away with not cleaning an AK gas tube - even if it rusts it doesn't matter. I can't see a way to do that with this design.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Groda posted:

What the hell did this guy do to the finish?

ANTIQUE - BURNSIDE - MINT? BUY AMERICAN

I'll make sure to do that. My next K98k purchase will certainly provide lots of work for our workers.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Tmavomodry posted:

Too bad most of our manufacturing equipment was boxed up and sent to China long ago, and that the average American is unwilling to do the job of operating those machines for anything less than the equivalent of about $50,000 a year.

The way my current employment prospects are looking, I kind of wish I'd taken some machining courses or something after high school. $30k a year would be a king's ransom right about now for me.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



SpiDeR posted:

Every time I look at gunbroker I remember wanting to put together a Garand for myself, but then remember I've never done that kind of work before.

Why not just buy one?

They're not that expensive for semi-auto rifles, and it's going to end up costing you about 1.5x the cost of a nice CMP gun to piece one together.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Groda posted:

What is this gun? It looks like it takes MAS 49 mags, but almost certainly doesn't.

COMPLETE RESTORATIVE RIFLE/SHOTGUN FINISHES



EDIT: On second look,


What we have here is one tactic as gently caress MAS 49.

Seeing that and then recognizing it is kind of like spotting a girl you used to have a crush on in high school in a porno. A REALLY degrading porno.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



HotCanadianChick posted:

With golden showers. And scat.

Bankrolled by goons. In Brazil.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



ChlorineTrifluoride posted:

There is "sporterized", then there is...well, this thing.



That's actually not that bad. Kind of sucks about the front sight ears, but I bet you could get a new front sight if you looked around and had a gunsmith to put it on. Besides that the metal's pristine.

The stock is pretty nice, really. Someone obviously put a lot of time and effort into carving it and did a pretty decent job of it too. It's probably a gun someone got cheap back in the 60s and worked on for a really long time. If that was an heirloom firearm and you could actually say "my grandfather did this" it would be awesome as all hell.

$200 isn't bad for an easy restoration project m1917 and with that stock looking like that I'm not sure I'd even bother getting a new one - it's just an attractive sporting gun. If someone was looking for a starter deer rifle and didn't have to have a scope, it'd be a good deal.

And this is coming from someone who abhors sporterization nearly all of the time.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Gewehr 43 posted:

Jesus.... this guy's been sniffing too much glue.


Emphasis mine. Unfortunately I can't copy the hideous, multicolored html so you'll have to check out the link to see for yourself. poo poo like that pretty much guarantees that I'll never buy anything from that company... ever. I mean, seriously... would you send $1800 to someone who presented themselves like that?

The best part is that after all that the pictures are out of focus, don't show anything important, and generally only convey that he's got SOMETHING that's kind of shaped like a 1911a1.

If it was a "found old gun in attic, want to get rid of it" auction set at $500 I might roll the dice, but christ - the photos are so bad it could be a Springfield GI and you wouldn't be able to tell, since there's no way to see a rollmark.

It's worth noting that pictures like this are half hte reason I do so much of my business with you. Somehow you've managed to master not only one point and shoot device, but a second one that lets you put up detailed graphical depictions of people, places, and things!

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



ChlorineTrifluoride posted:


Does anything actually justify the price people ask for these Sig P210s? Or are they just rare and collectable?

Rare, collectible, reputation for insane accuracy (although this may or may not be deserved when compared to more modern pistols), loving HUGE fanboy following.

I've never understood why SIG doesn't re-release the 210 in some kind of "custom target" model. They'd sell a decent number and it would finally help shut up the fanboys and depress the 210 market a bit.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



TapTheForwardAssist posted:

I was wondering the same thing. Like several products, it was canceled because "it's too expensive to make." But seriously, given that used ones go for $2000-3000 and upwards, I'd imagine SiG could sell quite a few thousand of them for $1500 with no effort.

Of course, having seen SIG's recent endeavors, I fear they'd pull some "we made some great mods for the American market! We modified the grip to make it more Glock like, and and moved the mag drop, and took the sights off so you can put the modern sight of your choice into the dovetail! Yay America!"

My guess is that it has something to do with production capacity - by retooling some line to produce those, they'd decrease production of something with a higher profit margin. Why sell 5,000 210s at $400 profit each when you can sell 10,000 226s at $600 profit each?

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



wldmn13 posted:

That stupid blue piece of poo poo has been on gb for a long time. I really, really wish they'd implement some sort of relisting fee.

A relisting fee would be lame, but they really need to implement a ceiling for the number of times that it can be relisted, maybe 10 times or something else reasonable like that.

At the very least this would force you to go in and re-make the auction after that gun no one wants failed to sell.

That alone would get rid of the vast majority of the bullshit, like the single spare parts that get relisted into perpetuity or some sap decides to actually spend $45 on a K98k firing pin, without loving it up for the average user.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Roundboy posted:

Just like ebay. Pick a max price, enter it, and get frustrated when outbid by a small amount.

Or do what everyone else does: flag the gun in your account's bookmarks, note the time it's finishing out, and bid closer to the deadline. Gunbroker has its 15 minute rule, but at the very least that cuts down on the douches who have two accounts to bid on their own stuff and drive the price up once there's some interest generated in it.

About 90% of what I buy on there I get near the end of the auction after no one else has bid on it.

If you're selling: Make sure to pay the extra $1 to get it as a "featured" auction. The unwashed masses gravitate towards those and bid like retarded chimps. This is 10x as important if it's any kind of common gun - you want yours on the top of the pile, not the bottom.

If you're buying: ignore the "featured" auctions, that's where the unwashed masses gravitate and bid like retarded chimps. Look through the un-featured auctions for the ones with the worst, vaguest, most nonsensical auction headers. These are the ones that no one sees and no one bids on. Look for oddball keywords that no one else uses. I got a great K98k that was listed as a "Kar98k" - every other person on gunbroker lists either as K98k, 98k, or K98 for that gun. In the same vein I scored big once on something listed as "Japanese rifle." Someone who wasn't an idiot would have listed it as an Arisaka, Type-99, T99, or a combination of any or all of those.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Roundboy posted:

This sounds like great advice. But unless I am reading it wrong, you both advocate and pan the 'featured auctions'.

I think I found 2 very great deals on a glock 19, but being the jaded ebayer that I am, I really am taking a pause on jumping on them.

I'm a hypocritical son of a bitch, so yes, I do both advocate and pan them.

The places you go to sell your gun for the maximum amount to inept buyers who will keep mashing "bid" until their credit card melts are not the same places you go to find undervalued gems.

I go to one when I want to sell a WASR-10 for $600.

I go to the other when I want to buy an Arisaka with an intact 'mum for $100.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH OH holy poo poo read the auction description

Don't snort glue and post auctions at the same time, kids.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Tmavomodry posted:

secret factory code?

Well, the secret factory code bit is true. This is why guns marked AC were made at Walther, guns marked BYF were made at the Mauser Oberndorf factory, CE means JP Sauer & Sohne, and so on.

The rest of it is just hilarious bullshit, minus the single fact that there was indeed a Mauser factory in Brno.

SS marked rifles weren't made in concentration camps.

There are no '41 dated single rune rifles.

That's just a few.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Gewehr 43 posted:

I wonder if this guy is one of the many stupid poo poo vendors that show up at the Michigan Antique Arms Collector's show. It's not far from his location.

One of the guys over on the Gunboards K98k forum was saying that the seller had it listed in Craig's List near him for something like $700 initially. He got into negotiations with the guy, then he just stopped responding, and came back later with some nutso $1600 figure.

It's an entertaining thread if you want to check it out.

My personal theory is that he knows nothing about milsurp at all and was unloading some heirloom rifle (either his own or one that he bought for next to nothing) and someone who knew a bit more than nothing told him what they typically sell for. Prompt him spouting "knowledgeable" sounding drivvel and pricing it like it's a mint condition all matching S-code.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Conquest7706 posted:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=129681835

Never before have I wished death upon a GB retard.

Edit: The only way I could hate that person more would be if they did the same thing to a M96.

That's a pity, those stocks are basically unavailable in the US.

From a collector standpoint it's actually way worse that he did that to a Ljungman - there's tons of m96s in the US but very of the Ljungmans, mostly due to some import law wonkiness in the 90s, as I understand it.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Conquest7706 posted:

M96s hold a special place in my heart.. I don't think I can ever love a gun more.. maybe the K-31 though.

I can't understand how he managed to shoot the stock.

This is making me sad now; other than his epic fail that Ljungman looks pretty good and assuming it hasn't been shot to hell since the last time the Swedes put a disc on it it should be in great condition.

Would it be very tough to fix something like that?

It'd be tough, not impossible.

The price he's asking is high for such a high end repair, though.

I've been looking into this stuff a lot as of late - I've got a k43 that I need to fix the wood under the buttplate so it an take an original K43 buttplate again (it was sportered for a recoil pad at some point and then repaired to take a cosmetically similar Brazillian mauser buttplate that doesn't QUITE fit on exactly the same). I've also got a G98 that I just picked up that has a previously repaired duffle cut that has come undone over time that I want to get together more securely.

There are guys out there who can repair almost anything, and I've seen some truly amazing pictures and threads on various milsurp forums about just that. From what little I know at this point, I'm guessing this would be a candidate for a fiber glass fill and repair job. That's WAY beyond my skill, though, and probably beyond most collectors. It's also unfortunate that the sliver of wood that was taken out isn't included with it, as that's going to make restoring it to an OK cosmetic look really tough.

Hard repair, but not impossible for someone with the right skill set.

As an example, take a look at this amazing repair of an utterly hosed vz24 stock over on Surplusrifle.com

Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 05:04 on May 28, 2009

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



hangedman posted:

The best part of that auction is that his starting price was $700 bucks. Now I'm no "Antiques Roadshow" motherfucker, but usually when you shoot something with a .45 caliber pistol it tends to degrade the item's value.

What a major loving idiot. If he's dumb enough to accidentally (or intentionally) shoot his guns, when it comes time to sell them he should probably realize that it'll have some effect on the price he gets at resale.

That's actually really damned cheap for a Ljungman in the US. As I mentioned earlier they got caught up in some import weirdness so there's very few of them down here, especially when compared to Canada.

Now, $700 still isn't nearly cheap enough for what that gun is. If it was down near $400 I would have jumped on it as a project, and at $500 I would have hemmed and hawed and probably ended up doing it.

For $700 starting and $750 BIN (probably near $800 after shipping) he can go gently caress himself.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Gewehr 43 posted:

This thread reminded me that I haven't checked out gunbroker in quite some time.

I remember now why I didn't.

What the hell is going on with that buttplate?

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Gewehr 43 posted:

I haven't the slightest. I really like the unit mark on the buttstock too.

Hah, jesus, I totally missed that.

That eagle also looks wonky as all hell.

That probably explains why the buttplate looks so wonky - it was probably REALLY heavily sanded, the buttplate doesn't quite fit right any more when compared to the surrounding wood, and the guy tried to re-stamp what he thought were the correct marks, probably using a K98k for reference.

To clarify for everyone else: G/K43s never got the "H" (Heer, which is German for "Army") stamp that you see on a lot of K98ks - the only stock markings were a large WaA stamp on either the left or right side, depending on manufacturer, and (sometimes) another on the bottom, in the wrist area.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



B4Ctom1 posted:

Worst Hungarian mosin sniper half fake half real rifle I have ever seen:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=132332430

Ok, I know jack poo poo about Hungarian snipers.

What are the give aways here? Restamped numbers? Repro scope or mount?

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



B4Ctom1 posted:

Some of it is som messed up it looks fake!

Compare that rifle to mine which is just a couple thousand different. Mine is more exemplary of others you will find by googling "Hungarian M/52 Mosin Sniper".

Mine:
http://www.outlawperformance.com/images/gunstuff/Hungarian_M52/

also I edited my first post above like 3 times while trying to figure out if it was fake or just ruined.

Yeah, looks like they "prettied it up" and based their finish info off of Russian post-war refurbed Mosins. That bolt in particular looks like it had the living poo poo polished out of it.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



28_days posted:

Part of me wants t believe it might be authentic due to the collaborating evidence/"proof", another part of me wants to call BS.

I'll almost guarantee it's utterly BS, with the POSSIBLE exception of the armband. I don't know all the silly poo poo you have know to authenticate fabrics and such (seriously, it gets down to 60 year old sewing machines, stitching patterns, etc) so I can't comment on that, but it at least looks right. It's either authentic or a very passable forgery.

The papers? You see crap like that crop up ALL THE GODDAMNED TIME with old guns. Forged bring-back papers are the new hotness, mostly since 95% of the people out there, including experienced collectors who can spot hosed with serials from a mile away, can't tell the difference between something done on a good laser printer and something run off in the 40s.

That stationary? Could be Hitler's personal poo poo. Could be that someone's cousin owns an embossing machine and owed them a favor. The newspaper articles would be easy enough to authenticate (just write a letter to the paper that supposedly published it with a issue number and ask if they really published that article) but that really doesn't mean poo poo - I could dig that kind of story up while researching and make up some bullshit to sell just as well. Those kinds of interest stories were really common in the mid-40s.

I would take someone who REALLY knows old papers and old inks and how they change with time to make a good call on this one. This is a huge issue for historians since tons of people forge old documents, either to make a historical/political point or to sell to collectors. Hell, sometimes those forgeries are made for political purposes back when whatever issue it deals with is contemporary and historians only figure out it's bogus decades after the fact. See: The "Hitler diaries."

Things to check for, off the top of my head: What kind of paper is it on? Compare the pulp/wood grain to examples of high end paper from the 40s. You'd probably also need to snip a small section (about 1cm^2 will do) from a corner and have it chemically analyzed - bleaching techniques have changed a lot in 60 years. Is there a watermark on the paper? Just about all really high end stationary, then and now, has a watermark and the companies usually change them every few years. On REALLY high end stuff the year of production is in there was well. How has the ink aged/changed over time? Inks do some interesting stuff over the years as they get old and react chemically with the stuff in the paper.

And that's just the bare minimum that catches the REALLY LAZY AND lovely forgers. Really good forgers will track down period stationary, period inks, and period pens and then chemically accelerate the aging process, basically just fast forwarding the chemical reactions between the inks and paper that normally happen over decades. This is a lot less difficult than you'd think - hell, I do most of my writing with a fountain pen from 1939, and that cost me all of $60 through a store that specializes in refurbishing old pens for collectors.

I'm sure embossing techniques for stationary have changed, an expert could probably look at it up close and figure out if it was done on old machinery or new machinery. There's a thread over on Gunboards right now about authenticating capture papers and they've got a bunch of print geeks talking about how, specifically, forms were printed in the 40s and how that affects the underlying paper and how you can tell the difference between that and something printed on modern machinery. I'm assuming embossers can tell in much the same way. Professional forgers of 19th century documents often get period paper from the blank front-sheets of books published back then, something that's the bane of antique book dealers.

The big thing with stuff like this is a verifiable (in the legal sense) chain of custody, or "provenance" in collector/historian parlance. If you can establish 100% that something was picked up in Germany in 1945, that it was held by this person for so many years, that they sold/gave it to someone else, and so on - all through much better documented transfers than "his mother gave it to a (unnamed) friend of hers" - then you can be almost 100% sure it's authentic. Frequently this is the only way to really authenticate some antiques that are simply too easy to fake. WW2 German helmets, for example, are often so full of fakes and "improved" examples that this is the only way to really nail them down. A helmet with good, established provenance can fetch 2-5x what one that just appeared out of no where will.

So. . . . yeah. To be worth looking into buying you'd need to get it authenticated, which is quite an expensive process. This is half of what people who deal in fine collectibles do. They educate themselves about a broad variety of issues, just enough to catch the really obvious bullshit, and then buy a whole bunch of potential hits. They then send them out to people they know who can authenticate them, a process that is expensive in and of itself, and simply expect that a certain percent of what they bought is going to turn out to be worthless bullshit. The payoff comes when they get something for relatively cheap, authenticate it, and are able to turn around and sell it on the high-end collector market for serious cash. I'm guessing authenticated Hitler stationary would probably go for $5-10k to the right collector.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Craptacular posted:

Speaking of helmets, did that German helmet you got awhile back turn out to be the real deal or not?

Haven't had time to send pictures around to the right people yet. This much I do know: it IS a real German helmet from the 1943-44 period and the paint LOOKS like it's original and the decal LOOKS like it's period as well, given how some of the paint around it has aged along with it.

I think it's real, but I want some more experienced eyes on it than mine.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



TapTheForwardAssist posted:

To tie this into MercuryBallistics 1895 FN pseudo-Mauser Afghan bringback: it's hilarious to me that Afghans are stamping random dates onto quite possibly original early rifles in an attempt to make them US-importable so they can sell the to servicemen/contractors.

Somewhere I have a pic of a Mauser we picked up in Iraq that has just completely random Latin letters stamped on it, many backwards or upside-down, in order to make it look (to an Arabic-speaker) like it was made in Europe. I'm wondering to what degree forged stuff will be its own collectible niche in the future. I've been told by Winchester collectors that a Khyber Pass Win 1895 would be worth quite a fair bit in the US just to add to a collection as a "see, even Afghan tribesmen liked these enough to make them out of railroad ties"."

When I mentioned Mercury Ballistic's gun over on a few other forums trying to get a feel for what, exactly, it was there was a pretty general "wow that's really cool and I'd pay significantly more for it" consensus from people.

The reality is that the Khyber pass stuff is coming in in very limited numbers and only from service members. Once you eliminate the people who won't ever sell them because they want a memento of Afghanistan that pool gets even smaller.

I imagine provinence will become a HUGE headache with those, but I'm assuming there's some kind of paperwork from customs or whoever it is that says that small ring Mausers with "1882" or whatever stamped on them are OK but Martini-Enfield folding block pistols aren't. Give it 30 years and a unique weapon with papers might be worth a significant chunk of change.

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Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Goddamnit G43, stop posting pictures of humped pre-1939 rifles.

If I found a good deal on an honest bolt m/m pre-39 rifle like that I'd be all over it, especially as that's a transitional one with both Weimar and Nazi inspection marks on the receiver.

Goddamnit, that's more or less exactly what I wanted

I might shoot that guy an email and see if he'll take $500 for it if I let him keep the bolt. . .

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