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PrinceofNessus
Jan 9, 2007




My favorite .22 handgun is this old Iver Johnson model 50 Sidewinder. This gun has fallen out of trees, into rivers, and you can still neuter a squirrel with it. My dad purchased it sometime in the 60's and it was the first gun I learned to shoot.

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BaronW
Apr 16, 2007

Why yes, I HAVE seen uhaul.jpg

hangedman posted:

Even my Ruger Mark II with the Volquartzen innards has been languishing in my gunsafe and will probably be sold off.

Don't keep it a secret when you do.

Loan Dusty Road
Feb 27, 2007


Can we group .17s into the thread too? I'm running a 917V seen here http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firea...Magnum/917v.asp

Anyone know of some semi-auto in .17 HMR? I want to pick up another semi-auto rifle, and I'll probably end up getting the 10/22 or savage 64 BTV if I don't find a .17 I like.


Anyways, I've got a P22 and G22. I only had issues with the G22 when I put some Remington ammo (not Thunderbolt?) through it. Love both and have had great performance barring the aforementioned.


Edit: Pistol looks nice, but not $500+ nice. The rifle is just ugly to me, which is funny since I like my G22.
http://www.excelarms.com/

And for the rich: https://www.volquartsen.com/product...i-auto-rimfire-

Loan Dusty Road fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Feb 27, 2009

Not Nipsy Russell
Oct 6, 2004

Failure is always an option.


devilsbite posted:


Hey, Not Nipsy Russell how'd that Model 60 work out for you? Is it still giving you greif?


Great! A good thorough cleaning of the action seems to have done it. It's a fun plinker.

Also, it makes no sense how insanely fun this metal stick is with two people competing:

I eats my spinach
Jan 16, 2005

'sup gordon

Hashal posted:

Anyone know of some semi-auto in .17 HMR? I want to pick up another semi-auto rifle, and I'll probably end up getting the 10/22 or savage 64 BTV if I don't find a .17 I like.

Edit: Pistol looks nice, but not $500+ nice. The rifle is just ugly to me, which is funny since I like my G22.
http://www.excelarms.com/

The problem is that .17HMR semiautos except for the Volquartsen model have been traditionally problematic, probably thanks to the tiny relatively fast projectile. The cartridge is based on .22WMR down to the powder charge, which led to several attempts to simply slap a new barrel on a .22WMR. Ruger tried it with the 10/22 Magnum but it was never released, Remington did it with the 597 magnum, and Excel Arms (listed above) did it with the MR-22/MP-22. Of the two that were released the problem is that it tends to sort of fire slightly out of battery a lot, with results ranging from "getting splattered with burning shrapnel" to "looking for the extractor in the grass to your right" to "huh my gun blew up"

My understanding is that even though it's just a necked down .22WMR, with a spring/bolt weight meant for WMR it dosen't produce enough backpressure to cycle and eject reliably since the projectile leaves the barrel so much more quickly- somewhere in the neighborhood of 500-600 fps faster than it's parent cartridge. If you shave off weight or use a lighter spring to compensate you increase the chances of an out of battery fire caused by the bolt cycling while chamber pressure is still too high. Also, it's harder to feed rounds from the mag with a lighter spring and bolt.

The volquartsen model actually comes highly reccomended from those on Rimfirecentral who own one, but that's probably because they're carefully tuned to compensate for the problems listed above and it's reflected in the price

Another option would be converting a 10/22 to .17HM2, which is the same bullet cooking along at about 2100-2200 FPS. Oh, and it sells for 3.60 a box rather than 10. EABCO sells a nice kit with an ER Shaw HM2 barrel and heavy tungsten bolt handle/magnum recoil spring assembly to help slow the bolt's reciprocal velocity and aside from that, the only thing you need is a new bolt stop to help prevent receiver/bolt battering. I forgot which one I got, but if you ask around on Rimfirecentral there are several 10/17 shooters out there who can reccomend a new one from experience.

I eats my spinach fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Feb 27, 2009

gimpsuitjones
Mar 27, 2007

What are you lookin at...

Hashal posted:

Can we group .17s into the thread too?

we have a separate .17HMR thread it has a horribly non-descriptive thread title, something about bacon, go find it

devilsbite
Apr 29, 2005

9mm


CaptainFuzychin posted:




You do realize this means we're getting married right?
Time For Love

What grip frame was that and how long did it take you to fit it to the main frame? The hammer? My metal working skills have come along nicely but I've never taken on a project of that magnitude.

Nice work!

---

Professor Awesome posted:

Great HMR Automatic deconstruction

Well put. I don't think anybody's going to figure out an HMR auto for quite a while. I'm gay for the Automag II but understand the inherent issues of running .22 Mag in an auto pistol. Neither one is a good idea. HM2 in the 10/22 is tits.

---

Gimp, had something to do with goons chasing...

Speaking of 10/22s, still using that cheap Eagle magazine release?

edit: VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV I think your bullet link on page one is broken. VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

devilsbite fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Feb 27, 2009

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



Shameless self promotion, I made the .17HMR thread a while back. Hope that helps you out!

devilsbite
Apr 29, 2005

9mm


Had to pimp one more .22lr that's on my "Oh my, what an inheritance; I must spend it" list.



Yea, it's a North American Arms 5 shot revolver pimping the 1 & 5/8" barrel*.

Pros:
- You never have to carry extra ammo!
- Simple to reload; at a bench, with good light, and patience.
- It fits in your pocket!
- It's a real gun!
- Accurate to 10-12 feet!
- Will smart like the dickens if handled stupidly.

Cons:
- Safety notches in the cylinder end playing Russian Testicle Roulette while pocketed.
- Stiff hammer is difficult to fan.
- * Does not fit in the belt buckle.

I've heard tale of a "boot grip" that would fit this model and be preferable. Can't find a link at the moment.

I want to shoot Velociters out of this thing.

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



devilsbite posted:

I think your bullet link on page one is broken.

Shut up, homo. They are not. Fixed them



Also Derringers are loving awesome and I really want to shoot one.

NosmoKing
Nov 12, 2004

I have a rifle and a frying pan and I know how to use them

DJExile posted:

Also Derringers are loving hunks of poo poo and I really don't want to shoot one.

Fixed that quote for accuracy.

lovely sights, terrible triggers, accuracy that lets you hit the ground and that's mostly due to gravity...


Oh, and in chamberings with more punch than a 32 S&W, they tend to bite back hard enough to make you bleed.

Then again, my results are with drop guns made by Davis... YMMV with "better" quality derringers.

Edit:



My contribution to the last "Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms" thread when people were starting to get way too high quality booze and photography in the thread. It's my Davis D-38 in .38 special!

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

NosmoKing fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Feb 27, 2009

devilsbite
Apr 29, 2005

9mm


NosmoKing posted:

lovely sights, terrible triggers, accuracy that lets you hit the ground and that's mostly due to gravity...


Oh, and in chamberings with more punch than a 32 S&W, they tend to bite back hard enough to make you bleed.

Then again, my results are with drop guns made by Davis... YMMV with "better" quality derringers.

I hear you my brother but I am a fool who must suffer errors in judgment first hand. I've had a weakness for derringers all my life (watched too many westerns growing up) and vow to own a two barreled .38Spl. or 9mm before I die. I will carry it whilst playing poker, preferably on a river boat.

Sorry to derail the .22lr train, just wanted to point out that I expect my gun love to be cause me pain from time to time.

I actually think this little pee shooter, with a better grip, might actually be fun to shoot at 5-10 feet, maybe over a camp fire. Gimmick gun for sure, but I still want one.

McMadCow
Jan 19, 2005

With our rifles and grenades and some help from God.

Awesome idea for a thread! With prices as they are, I'm loving .22 right now. The only centerfire rifle ammo I've been using lately has been for hunting, and I reload my own shotshells for clay shooting. That leaves .22 as my go-to plinking caliber and I love love love it.


I rag on people every time we have a .22 pistola thread but I really truly believe that spending $300 on a used Hi-Standard in good condition beats spending the same amount on a new Mk2 or Buckmark. After that, going up to the higher-end models like a Supermatic or a Victor is a huge jump in performance. Mensur should jump in here, but his Victor has the best trigger I've ever felt on a pistol. Better than his Model 41 and even better than the Les Baer Custom 1911 I fired a few weeks back.

My main plinker is my 1957-8 H-S Sport-King. This one is in very very nice shape and it shoots like a dream for a 50 y/o gun. $300


I just got this one before Christmas, and although I do shoot it, it was more for the collector's value of it:

1941 Model C in .22 short. H-S only ever made ~4700 of these, so when I found it I had to jump on it despite its worn condition. It still shoots great, though, and .22 short is a hilarious round. $200

Size comparison between the two:

The Sport-King fits my hand like it was made for me. At a time when many pistols were sorely lacking in the ergo dept, H-S really put a lot of thought into this one.


Mossy M44US:

Stupid accurate match rifle, US-Property marked. I'm learning how to shoot NRA 3-Position and this is what I use. Believe it or not, the ultra simple trigger mechanism is real easy to do a trigger job on. Mine breaks cleanly at probably 6 oz. Literally, I got it ligher than the single set trigger on my CZ550. Probably not the safest situation, but perfectly ok for a match gun. $200



AMMO:
I really like the Wolf/SK .22 subsonic match. It's scary accurate through my Mossy, and it cycles perfectly through my Sport-King. Bonus points for smelling like crazy glue when it fires. If I don't have any of that around, CCI Standard Velocity is almost as good. Older Hi-Standards were designed before high velocity ammo was available, so I try not to use it in mine. Obviously the Mossy will take anything under the sun.

.22 short ammo seems to be a little iffy on quality. Of course CCI .22short target works flawlessly through my Model C. Aguila brand with the same ME, speed, and grain will NOT. I have no idea why. It's a bummer, too, because the CCI stuff is a bit more pricey and the Aguila is stupid cheap.

I can't shoot the Aguila 60gr SubSonicSniper CB things through my Sport-King or my Mossy. They keyhole like MAD. I guess older .22 guns didn't have the twist rate to stabilize anything over 40gr. My target looks like I fired a .75 cal musket at it. They will cycle the Sport-King, though.

My Flickr Page!

presidentnixon
Sep 12, 2005

No, the other Nixon.

I saw a Heritage Rough Rider in pawnshop today for $179. It appears to be in unfired condition, and the guy said it was new. I didn't measure it, but it would have had a ~4" barrel.

Other than a loosening screw (as reported around the internet) once in a while, any opinions? I'm really thinking about going back for it today or tomorrow.

EndofGoogle
Nov 22, 2004
page 20 of 100

Black Dog Machine *might* be doing Kadet and other pistol magazines.

a savvy frood
Feb 23, 2007
Do you like Huey Lewis and the News?

I'm about to take the Ruger Mark III I bought back to the gunshop to sell and spend the money on a 22 conversion kit for my Beretta 92fs. I really like playing with the Ruger, but field stripping is too much of a pain in the rear end for me and I really prefer the Beretta. Problem is, I can't seem to find any conversion kits other than the Ciener model and I don't want to get stuck with a company with poor customer service. Any recommendations?

devilsbite
Apr 29, 2005

9mm


presidentnixon posted:

I saw a Heritage Rough Rider in pawnshop today for $179. It appears to be in unfired condition, and the guy said it was new. I didn't measure it, but it would have had a ~4" barrel.

Other than a loosening screw (as reported around the internet) once in a while, any opinions? I'm really thinking about going back for it today or tomorrow.

I just happen to have their catalog and it shows MSRP of the 4" "cowboy" sights for $169.95 w/.22mag cyl. and the 4" Adjustable model is $209.95 w/.22Mag cylinder.

$179 sounds high to me; your area might be different, but I'd pass. I think they made some .22s without the new safety, that would be a plus. The older ones have an ugly hammer, but that should be replaceable.

If you think you'd be happy with the gun offer $125 and refuse to go higher than $135 OTD. If no sale, come back the next week and re-test the waters.

I know we have a few owners around where, speak up folks!

hangedman
Dec 20, 2003

Fish out of water

devilsbite posted:

I know we have a few owners [of the Rough Rider] around where, speak up folks!

Shot one, would not recommend it too highly.

My stepdad got one for my mom (and probably sisters) to teach them how to shoot a handgun, slowly and deliberately, by paying careful attention to the operation of the gun.

It's a single-action .22 revolver, that's for sure. It's okay to blast away with, the sight picture is functional, and it even has a pretty non-intrusive safety (!) which makes it a good trainer for kids. The drat thing shoots about two inches down and two inches to the left at 10 yards, though, which is pretty annoying but I would guess is "in spec" for a gun that he bought for $130 out-the-door.

If you're going to be shooting at longer ranges, you probably would end up doing a lot better to save up for a Ruger Single Six (I see them for absurdly cheap prices at gun shows), or at the very least, one of the Rough Riders with the adjustable sights. With some diligent searching, the Single Six will only run you about $100 more, which isn't a whole lot more money for just a huge jump in quality and accuracy.

To repeat that line from some old gunwriter and military man (I forget who), "only accurate guns are interesting."

ClumsyThief
Sep 11, 2001



Been thinking about buying a .22LR rifle for awhile. I used to shoot my father's Mossbergs a lot as a kid, and I have access to a fairly nice firing range, so I figured it'd be a good way to have some fun.

Was thinking about getting a Marlin 60, since it's on the cheap end and I don't have a ton to spend. What's the major difference between the tube fed design and the magazines? Are there any significant drawbacks to the rifle compared to the other popular choices, like the 597 and the 10/22? It might end up being used for small game hunting, but the likelihood of me putting any kind of aftermarket mods into it besides a scope are slim and none, so I'd like something that's going to be relatively accurate and solid off the shelf. Basically all the rifles in the original post seem to fit that description, but the Marlin caught my eye for some reason so if anyone can offer some more specific advice about it I'd appreciate it.

Black Stormy
Apr 1, 2003



McMadCow posted:





This photo hurts me physically.

McMadCow
Jan 19, 2005

With our rifles and grenades and some help from God.

Black Stormy posted:

This photo hurts me physically.

I don't do product photography.

My Flickr Page!

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



ClumsyThief posted:

Been thinking about buying a .22LR rifle for awhile. I used to shoot my father's Mossbergs a lot as a kid, and I have access to a fairly nice firing range, so I figured it'd be a good way to have some fun.

Was thinking about getting a Marlin 60, since it's on the cheap end and I don't have a ton to spend. What's the major difference between the tube fed design and the magazines? Are there any significant drawbacks to the rifle compared to the other popular choices, like the 597 and the 10/22? It might end up being used for small game hunting, but the likelihood of me putting any kind of aftermarket mods into it besides a scope are slim and none, so I'd like something that's going to be relatively accurate and solid off the shelf. Basically all the rifles in the original post seem to fit that description, but the Marlin caught my eye for some reason so if anyone can offer some more specific advice about it I'd appreciate it.

About the only difference is that tube mags can balance a little differently. They are usually a bit higher capacity as well. The 60 is a perfectly fine gun.

gimpsuitjones
Mar 27, 2007

What are you lookin at...

Col. Townshend Whelen said that

NosmoKing
Nov 12, 2004

I have a rifle and a frying pan and I know how to use them

ClumsyThief posted:

Was thinking about getting a Marlin 60, since it's on the cheap end and I don't have a ton to spend. What's the major difference between the tube fed design and the magazines? Are there any significant drawbacks to the rifle compared to the other popular choices, like the 597 and the 10/22? It might end up being used for small game hunting, but the likelihood of me putting any kind of aftermarket mods into it besides a scope are slim and none, so I'd like something that's going to be relatively accurate and solid off the shelf. Basically all the rifles in the original post seem to fit that description, but the Marlin caught my eye for some reason so if anyone can offer some more specific advice about it I'd appreciate it.

As long as you don't want to turn into Dr. Frankenstein and play mod maniac, the Marlin 60 is a perfectly fine rifle as-is. Buy one, put a decent scope in decent mounts on it (not a $30 Burris in $10 wal-mart mounts and for GODS SAKE!! not a 3/4" $9 piece of poo poo scope/mount toy scope) and fill that tube and start going bang.

I have a friend who has one (and if you shoot, who doesn't have a friend who has one) and they are slick rifles.

incredibull
Sep 7, 2008

GENERIC

I recently bought a Sig Mosquito and despite all the warnings I received about jamming and bad trigger, I love it. I had the opportunity to shoot both a P22 and Mosquito prior to purchase, and I don't see what the big deal is with all the Mosquito hate that's out there.

My Mosquito had only several FTEs in my first few hundred rounds, which I think is great considering the fact that I couldn't get any CCI mini-mags on short notice and instead shot Winchester high-velocity. Some people hate the trigger, which breaks at the very rear end-end of the pull, but I liked it a lot, and found it helped to make better groups.

If you've been looking at the P22 for a fun .22 auto pistol, make sure to check out the Mosquito too. It looks and feels much better than the P22 imo.

MC Hawking
Apr 27, 2004

by VideoGames


Fun Shoe

ClumsyThief posted:

Been thinking about a Marlin 60.

An excellent choice. If you're not in the mood for super rice guns then the '60 is the way to go. The Micro-groove lends some pretty extreme stability of the lead, so you're looking at it being accurate. I can't really compare a 10/22 to a Marlin having never had a 10/22 but I think that if you get one you'll be happy with it. Mine is very light, even with a honkin' scope put on it.

Obsoletely Fabulous
May 6, 2008

Who are you, and why should I care?


Groda posted:

Anybody here have a Marlin 981T?

I have one and it was my very first rifle. It is a pretty nice rifle and I've no real problems with it at all. The tube can be annoying but a speed loader like the http://www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0012788222343a.shtml and you can take care of most of it at home. Mounting a scope can also be slightly annoying because of the bolt handle but that might have been more of my lack of ability than anything.

Overall, I think it was well worth the $120 or so that I paid for it NIB. 17 rounds of .22LR, bolt action, more accurate than I am at this point, and a whole lot of fun.

Militant Lesbian
Oct 3, 2002


ClumsyThief posted:

Was thinking about getting a Marlin 60, since it's on the cheap end and I don't have a ton to spend. What's the major difference between the tube fed design and the magazines? Are there any significant drawbacks to the rifle compared to the other popular choices, like the 597 and the 10/22? It might end up being used for small game hunting, but the likelihood of me putting any kind of aftermarket mods into it besides a scope are slim and none, so I'd like something that's going to be relatively accurate and solid off the shelf. Basically all the rifles in the original post seem to fit that description, but the Marlin caught my eye for some reason so if anyone can offer some more specific advice about it I'd appreciate it.

Get the model 60, they're great. I love mine, and it shoots everything I've put through it without a problem. Pretty drat accurate too, especially for a $129 rifle.

DocPsychosis
Apr 5, 2008

Welcome to the anxiety closet.

I don't think I've seen anyone mention the S&W 617, a slick .22 wheelgun. It weighs a metric ton but it's good at the range.





My .22LR collection: Ruger MkIII 22/45, lightly modded 10/22, and S&W 617. I kinda go for the black and stainless look I guess.

Chill_Bebop
Jun 20, 2007

Waffle SS

Time for more Rimfire Pics!









And to prove I'm not a fudd

NosmoKing
Nov 12, 2004

I have a rifle and a frying pan and I know how to use them

Chill_Bebop posted:

And to prove I'm not a fudd



Having and liking wood and blued steel rifles doesn't make you a Fudd. Being a dick makes you a Fudd.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Chill_Bebop posted:

Time for more Rimfire Pics!



Man, I am a sucker for full length wood stocks like that. Wish I could get one for my 10/22*


*I've tried. I can get one, but they're rare and really expensive.

Groda
Mar 17, 2005



Hair Elf

Obsoletely Fabulous posted:

I have one and it was my very first rifle. It is a pretty nice rifle and I've no real problems with it at all. The tube can be annoying but a speed loader like the http://www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0012788222343a.shtml and you can take care of most of it at home. Mounting a scope can also be slightly annoying because of the bolt handle but that might have been more of my lack of ability than anything.

Overall, I think it was well worth the $120 or so that I paid for it NIB. 17 rounds of .22LR, bolt action, more accurate than I am at this point, and a whole lot of fun.

What's the problem with the bolt handle? Did you try to get some new sights?

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



DocPsychosis posted:

I don't think I've seen anyone mention the S&W 617, a slick .22 wheelgun. It weighs a metric ton but it's good at the range.



I would buy one of those in a heartbeat, but the rare times I do see them, they're like $600 and that's just obscene.

Action Jesus
Jun 18, 2002



Sweet thread, I love shooting .22, it's so cheap and fun and a great way to get in a lot more practice as well as train new shooters.

I have 2 .22s, an old Marlin Glenfield model 80 (magazine fed bolt action), and a military (air force?) M261 conversion bolt for my AR.

I love the 261 kit, it's very accurate (within 50 yards I can use the same zero) and I haven't had any problems with it so far. It also uses magazine inserts that fit into standard AR mags so if ciener's stick mags aren't your game, these are a cool option

pics:




the upside is that Black Dog Machine makes 25(?)rd "full size" magazines for these bolts, just like they do for the ciener kits, however the downside is that original parts and the units themselves can be a little hard to come by anymore, I beleive I got mine with 2 magazine inserts for around $150ish, YMMV.

I'm really wanting a .22lr pistol and I can't decide whether I want an SAA style or a conversion kit for my 1911 (marvel marvel marvel)

Also, what did ever happen to the WASR-22s? They were here for like, 20 minutes and then completely vanished. Anyone know if we'll ever see them again, or perhaps where one could find them? Has the price risen to "retarded" levels just like every other facet of the gun market right now? They're totally cool and I'd love to have one to jack around with

Action Jesus fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Mar 1, 2009

Sturdy
Apr 24, 2008



Action Jesus posted:

Also, what did ever happen to the WASR-22s? They were here for like, 20 minutes and then completely vanished. Anyone know if we'll ever see them again, or perhaps where one could find them? Has the price risen to "retarded" levels just like every other facet of the gun market right now? They're totally cool and I'd love to have one to jack around with

we saw one at the flea market a few weeks ago. It was going for 250 I think, haven't been back to check up on that. But that's the first one I've seen around here (SC). I thought they were more prevalent too.

Danger Doug
Jul 10, 2007


I'm looking at making my 10/22 into something resembling the feel of my AR, and I'm looking for a stock that is of some quality. I'm eying the Tapco stock, but it's Tapco and it looks a little overly tactilol. I really just want a pistol grip and a stock that can be comfortably braced without shifting around. Anyone have any suggestions?

Also anyone have any suggestions for quality .22 suppressors? The YHM break-down cans look really nice but I've heard mixed opinions about YHM suppressors.

hangedman
Dec 20, 2003

Fish out of water

Chill_Bebop posted:



This is totally sweet. I didn't know they had a .22 BAR variant! Gunbrokering to determine price in 3... 2...

DocPsychosis
Apr 5, 2008

Welcome to the anxiety closet.

hangedman posted:

This is totally sweet. I didn't know they had a .22 BAR variant! Gunbrokering to determine price in 3... 2...

I didn't find any listed.

e: I do have a question about my 617 revolver. I've been thinking about having the trigger lightened somewhat; it's very smooth, but the factory settings are too conservative. I have neither the tools nor knowledge to do it myself. Is that an easy thing to have a gunsmith do, in general? What's the best way to find a talented smith? Should I be asking these in the general TFR thread?

DocPsychosis fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Mar 2, 2009

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hangedman
Dec 20, 2003

Fish out of water

DocPsychosis posted:

I didn't find any listed.

e: I do have a question about my 617 revolver. I've been thinking about having the trigger lightened somewhat; it's very smooth, but the factory settings are too conservative. I have neither the tools nor knowledge to do it myself. Is that an easy thing to have a gunsmith do, in general? What's the best way to find a talented smith? Should I be asking these in the general TFR thread?

If you haven't replaced the mainspring with a Wolff reduced power, do that. It makes a difference. You can also back the mainspring tension screw out a few quarter turns, which lightens the trigger pull a bit at the tradeoff of not smacking the cartridge rim quite as hard. So there's a little bit of a dance you can do between the two extremes of "utterly reliable at setting off rimfires but with a 16-pound pull" and "awesome trigger that always gives me light primer strikes." A few range trips with a few different kinds of ammo should let you find your sweet spot.

Example: last trip to the range, I was shooting a K-22 that I'd resprung and lightened. American Eagle was no problem both SA and DA, but DA on an old box of PMC Zappers was giving me a few light primer strikes every tenth round or so.

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