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In a few days i am picking up my new puppy. It is a Purebreed Maremma Sheepdog. I have had lots of dogs in the past and raised quite a few puppies so i know about how to look after dogs and what is needed. This dog will be the biggest i have ever owned though. I have always wanted one of these kinds of dogs and i think it will fit into my lifestyle ok. I live in the city but i have a very large yard and a dog park 1 block from my house. I also go for 2, 1 hour jogs/fast walks per day. I have young children but the pup i am getting comes from a breeder with young kids too. My kids are 2 and 8weeks and the breeders are 2 and 3. I know these dogs can be quite independent and strong willed. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this type of dog in an urban setting and how did they cope? I have already talked to the breeder and got lots of advice on the breed but i think i need more. All the advice they gave me is from their experience on farms. I have also read so much information on the net as i could get my hands on.
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Mar 4, 2009 05:29
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A Maremma? Really? How much research have you done? Funny, I just found this:quote:This is not a breed for beginners. Have you had lots of dogs or did your parents have lots of dogs that you lived with? wikipedia posted:However, the dogs may display hostility towards outsiders and they are not suitable companion dogs for urban areas due to their large size and need for open space. SachielDVangel fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Mar 4, 2009 |
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Mar 4, 2009 06:19
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SachielDVangel posted:A Maremma? Really? How much research have you done? Funny, I just found this: I have done lots of research. Maremmas are usually not good for urban areas because they have huge energy requirements. I do 2 hours of jogging a day plus i take my kids to the park/dogpark everyday as well, so that is not an issue. We also have a huge block with good fences. The farm i am getting my pup from don't sell their pups to anyone and i had to show that i knew what i am doing. They also need to be socialized from an early age or they can become aggressive. Also my dad used to be a staffy breeder. This was when i was in high school and i used to help train pups with him. In recent years i have had a kelpie/blue heeler which needed lots of exercise.
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Mar 4, 2009 06:39
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I am quite shocked that a breeder is giving you a Maremma in an urban setting. That is a terrible setting for this of dog. I do not have personal training experience with this dog, but have worked and competed with them in herding trials. They are a serious work dog and not a family dog except in rare cases. Do you have any experience with herding breeds? I would consider this dog an advance work herding breed. I have included an excerpt from the Maremma Dog Club of America website because I do not think you are familiar with it if you are bringing this dog into a household setting...quote:The Maremma Sheepdog Club of America does NOT recommend the Maremma as a pet. The Maremma actually never considers itself a 'pet'. It is a working dog, with 2000 years of genetic background of livestock guardianship behind it, and it needs a job to keep it occupied. If it is to be in the house with a family, it must be temperament-tested and heavily socialized from the time it is a small puppy. A puppy should be outgoing and friendly with everyone, but its rowdy behavior needs controlling; after all, a 10 month old puppy may weigh 100 pounds! It must also get used to meeting strangers. By the time it is two years old, it will be less outgoing with strangers, and may even decide it doesn't want ANY stranger to touch it, its master, or its property. To limit this future possessiveness, you must get your dog used to being handled by many friendly strangers when it is very young, and KEEP AT IT. But even then, you must personally introduce your dog to all new strangers who enter its territory (your home and property), and you may have to be present each time that they return. quote:Litters are usually not large and few litters are registered with MSCA each year. We recommend against purchasing puppies from unregistered litters, as they may be mixtures of unknown instincts that make their behavior unpredictable. We do recommend that prospective buyers check on all registrations and pedigrees in advance. quote:If you are a person who lives in cramped quarters, has young children, or has neighbors who would object to a barking dog, don't buy a Maremma. I am wondering what your reasoning is for getting such a independent outdoor working dog. It is not going to make a cuddly take me to the dog park pet. I hope you go to https://www.maremmaclub.com and really listen to what they say. As far as I can tell you are not in a good position at all for this dog. I have only known people with a working farm who have had them.
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Mar 4, 2009 06:59
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Also:quote:The Maremma-Abruzzese is the Italian version of the sheep-guarding dog. These dogs still live with the flocks in Italy; bitches are bred by the strongest males and may whelp their litters under a bush or in a simple cavity they dig in the ground. Independent, intelligent, and like other guardian breeds, in need of socialization and firm handling, the Maremma is a devoted family guard as well. However, he may be too rough for play with young children. How old were your kids again? I heard they were sharper than many of the LGD's. What attracts you to the breed? What are you looking for in a dog? You're basically buying a loaded gun with 4 legs and a brain that hates everyone but (hopefully not) you and doesn't really care too much about your opinion on the matter. SachielDVangel fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Mar 4, 2009 |
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Mar 4, 2009 07:02
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The puppy has been socialized and temperament tested and is from a registered breeder in australia. I don't want this dog as a cute fluffy family pet and my kids would never be alone with it. I am getting it for protection and showing. We have been robbed in the past year and we don't live in a very good area. I love working with big dogs and in the future i may use it for work. I have my canine security license. I also had a kelpie x blue-heeler in the past and they are herding dogs. The breed attracts me for their independence, size, domineer, energy levels and their guarding abilities. The size will not be an issue as i am 6'2 and my husband is 6'6.
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Mar 4, 2009 07:10
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These dogs are listed as being unsuitable for protection/bite work, I would not use one in any kind of future security work and then bring home to the kids. Their over developed sense of protection and tendency for bodily action makes them unpredictable in this arena. They also have no recall from bite work (means will not let go or stop on your command). I would not allow your children to poke, tease, touch toys or food, or lay on these dogs. The breed website recommends strongly against it. Domineer is usually not something I consider a plus in a dog I plan on working with or living with. Also, a 6'2 or 6'6 person is usually no match for a aggravated dog that can weigh around 100 lbs. Dogs per pound are made of a lot more muscle than you are. I am not trying to be an rear end about this, just hopping you are very aware of what you are getting into. This is a dog like no dog you have worked with. The do not work in tandem with you like a GSD or a blue-heeler would. The do their own thing, cause that is what they were breed to do.
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Mar 4, 2009 07:22
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Frogzilla posted:These dogs are listed as being unsuitable for protection/bite work, I would not use one in any kind of future security work and then bring home to the kids. Their over developed sense of protection and tendency for bodily action makes them unpredictable in this arena. They also have no recall from bite work (means will not let go or stop on your command). If i used it for work i would be using it as a leashed patrolling dog, not as a protection/ bite dog. I personally don't like working with bite dogs. It is my preference. Also i don't plan to have my kids alone with the dog, i wouldn't let my kid alone with any dog until the dog was at least 5 years in my possession and i knew its personality inside out. I have worked with training danes before so i know what to expect muscle-wise. Overall i think this is the best dog for what it is wanted for. Also i didn't post to ask if this is the right dog for me, i made this thread for a piece of advice. Has anyone here lived with one of these dogs in an urban environment? I know it is done as i have found some information on it, how do you cope?
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Mar 4, 2009 07:47
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You're in way over your head and this is a really bad idea :/.
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Mar 4, 2009 07:54
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Lioness has a rescue Pyr; that's about as close as you're going to get.
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Mar 4, 2009 08:29
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Why would you get a dog your kids can't really play with? Do you have a family dog already?  Having a family dog growing up is something that really enriches a kid's life, and having a dog they can't even be alone with doesn't sound super fun.Why didn't you consider dogs like rottweilers or German shepards? They can serve as guards, show dogs and family companions, and would be a heck of a lot easier to manage. I realize it's too late though, and you're already getting the dog. I know you're not asking for breed advice, but it seems a little hard to believe you've really thought this through when you've picked a breed that seems really unsuitable for your lifestyle. You're picking the dog you want, rather than the dog you need.
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Mar 4, 2009 08:47
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A livestock guardian breed is nothing like a herding breed or a staffy, I can tell you that right now. I mean, do what you want, but these dogs are pretty serious and intense. Whoever said this will not be a fluffy "dog park pal" type of dog is spot on. My Great Pyrenees is a rescue, but as far as I can tell his issues are fairly typical in the breed when raised by an average owner - that's what his previous owners were. They didn't abuse, neglect or mistreat him, they just didn't have the time or knowledge to handle a very large, very independent, very dominant dog. He is male dog aggressive, barks at everything under the sun (the rescue got him debarked - he's a prototypical livestock guardian temperament but has awful hips and back so can't be an effective working dog), doesn't really "play" like a normal dog (his playing involves mouthing, smacking with his paws and tackling - not exactly good for a young kid), and must be slowly and painstakingly introduced to visitors to the house and then acts like a giant demanding jackass to them even after they've been here awhile. He will demand attention from visitors to the point of being pushy (pawing insistently and mouthing), body block them when they try to go anywhere in the house that we haven't "approved" of them being, growl when one gets too close to one of us, and he even arbitrarily decided that the area beside the couch was off-limits to guests, and lunges at people who put things there and then reach down for them later.  I wouldn't be terribly concerned about a LGD attacking your own family, as the dog will likely bond with and become protective of them, but what are you going to do when your kids inevitably have friends coming in and out of the house all the time? This isn't really a breed for that sort of lifestyle. So I guess if you are asking how they do in that environment, an urban, busy environment with a lot of activity - my answer is "poorly." We have a small-ish duplex with a medium sized yard, in a small community that I wouldn't describe as "urban" and we rarely have visitors here. Sam is still a little much to take sometimes. And Pyrs generally make better pets than Maremmas. Sekhmet fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Mar 4, 2009 |
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Mar 4, 2009 08:59
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I recently babysitted for a family who have an approximately 18 week old Maremma Sheepdog. They also have a 2-year old girl. The dog was gorgeous, lovely to look at. She picked up 'sit' with a little bit of help just while I was there for a few hours. The information you're getting about "very independent" wasn't as applicable with this pup; she was very keen to be inside with us and very friendly to myself and my partner when we arrived. Unfortunately, the family doesn't seem like it's the best situation for her. They don't seem to be doing much training with her, (though I understand that this will be different in the OP's household). She was very dominant and headstrong. There were a few barks and some posturing when I told her to go to her bed, (she kind of gets the command even though it wasn't trained formally), but she went eventually. The main issue is the relationship between her and their little girl. The girl loves the dog, is constantly asking to go and play with her etc. But the dog is very rough. Her playing was similar to what Lioness was describing, with lots of mouthing and huge gorgeous puppy paws clobbering. This obviously didn't work well with the toddler. The girl still loved the dog, but she's had to have doctor's visits and stitches for several play bites because she's simply too small to interact with a big puppy that plays in that way. (The pup was almost waist height, probably the size of your average lab, but skinny.) That's my experience with the breed, and everything I've read in this thread seemed to be pretty correct. I think you'd be getting yourself into trouble with young kids and a pup like that in the house. For the record, I live in Australia and the mother from this family flew over east to pick up the puppy. I'm not sure who the breeder was but I'm sure there can't be that many in Australia. 6-Ethyl Bearcat fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Mar 4, 2009 |
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Mar 4, 2009 12:39
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fishy fishy posted:Also i didn't post to ask if this is the right dog for me, i made this thread for a piece of advice.  You're getting advice. Just because it isn't what you wanted to hear doesn't mean it isn't advice.
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Mar 4, 2009 13:25
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fishy fishy posted:My kids are 2 and 8weeks You have a baby and your getting puppy? But not just any puppy a Maremma Sheepdog. I truly hope I'm wrong but your situation sounds awful for this breed. I'd also be interested to know what breeder let this kind of dog go to a home with small children because that is a huge risk as others have pointed out.All in all my ADVICE is to back out and lose whatever money you put down and research a better breed for your situation. Also two one hour jogs/fast walks for a breed like this...you're kidding right? My GSD would drive me crazy if I did that and you're getting a breed that is going to be 100 times more intense than any GSD.
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Mar 4, 2009 14:25
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fishy fishy I'm not trying to be a bitch, but I know you mentioned in the pregnancy thread that your son is possibly autistic and has very dangerous allergies. Along with an 8 week old preemie, it seems like your plate would be too full for ANY puppy, let alone one as difficult as this.
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Mar 4, 2009 15:21
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^^^^ WOW. This puts the icing on the cake. If you care about your family at all you will not get a dog. You are not in a good situation for a dog. Do not get one. Losing whatever deposit you put down is a very, very small price to pay for the peace of your household. Babies + puppies are always bad news, but you have a premature baby, an autistic toddler, and are buying a working dog? Seriously, what went wrong in your head to think this could be a good idea on any level??  DenialTwist posted:You have a baby and your getting puppy? But not just any puppy a Maremma Sheepdog. I truly hope I'm wrong but your situation sounds awful for this breed. If you decide to just ignore what everyone is saying here, you are being foolish and selfish. Think of what's best for your family and this poor dog. What's best for your family is having enough time to care for two very small children, and not putting them at risk. What's best for the dog is to live on a farm. This is a terrible idea. You haven't really answered why the heck you feel you need this breed anyway. Can you tell us? Don't be like a lot of people are and close/abandon the thread thinking you can ignore the voice of reason because you know better and it'll all work out because you're the exception to every rule. What do those crazy dog people know, anyway? Don't be that person. maso fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Mar 4, 2009 |
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Mar 4, 2009 15:27
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Yoga posted:fishy fishy I'm not trying to be a bitch, but I know you mentioned in the pregnancy thread that your son is possibly autistic and has very dangerous allergies. Along with an 8 week old preemie, it seems like your plate would be too full for ANY puppy, let alone one as difficult as this. Jesus  .Also, one of the clearest indicators from this thread that you really don't know what you're buying into with this breed is when you say quote:I also had a kelpie x blue-heeler in the past and they are herding dogs. Um, despite the 'sheepdog' in the name, Maremmas are first and foremost LIVESTOCK GUARDIAN DOGS. Totally. loving. Different to herding breeds . You honestly don't seem to have researched this very much at all - have you even read a book on the breed? .
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Mar 4, 2009 15:33
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Fishy fishy, I am not trying to insult you. People are repeating themselves because you are putting your kids and this possible dog in a very very bad situation. Someone in IRC has yo friended on Facebook, and sees you saying this:quote:Fishy fishy "we might be getting a puppy" and less than 8 hours later: quote:Fishy fishy "we are getting a marimma puppy!!!! YAY!!!!! I love rare dogs."  And now this: quote:"Maremmas grow to be about 40kgs- 45kgs. They don't jump or bark and are known for protecting their owners fiercely. If the name doesn't ring a bell, they are the dogs that guard the penguins on phillip island." ...Don't jump or bark? I only bring this into the thread because I really truly do hope you decide not to get this dog, and You need as many people telling you that in as many ways as possible. You are in way over your head. Way over. Not only that, but what's with the rare dogs bullcrap? Seriously? Are you getting this dog just because nobody else will have one? Ask yourself this honestly. This is a terrible, terrible reason to get any dog.
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Mar 4, 2009 15:44
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Getting puppy with an INFANT is stupidity. Getting a puppy with an INFANT and a toddler that is potentially autistic is simply moronic. But it's ok because OMG CUTE PUPPY!!!!!!!!!! Seriously? It's nice that you've supposedly done research about this breed of dog. But several of your comments here and in other threads leave me to believe otherwise. Hopefully you'll actually heed some of the advice here rather than ignoring it because it's not what you want to hear. Christ you also have 2 cats. bamzilla fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Mar 4, 2009 |
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Mar 4, 2009 15:53
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Apron posted:Christ you also have 2 cats.
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Mar 4, 2009 16:07
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LGDs =! Staffies. I have had both. The former was a Pyr, which is a softer breed than a Maremma. I would have never in a million years had him in an urban setting, with two very young children. Maremmas are not "rare," and they suck poo poo as protection breeds for families because they take it TOO SERIOUSLY and will seriously hurt someone. They are nothing like staffies or herders, not in the remotest sense. Breeder sounds like a lovely breeder, and you are making a horrible decision. Please listen to people who have more experience with this kind of thing than you do and don't make this completely terrible and retarded mistake.
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Mar 4, 2009 17:24
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Before this thread turns into a Russian silver fox type thing (which is probably next on your list of RARE pets). I just wanted to add that you must be daft if you think that you will have ANY time to raise a dog of this caliber. I honestly think that MAYBE in a few years you family could be right for a different breed of dog ,but right now please please consider your children these dogs form strong bonds and guard their charges fiercely having an autistic child that WILL mess with this dog in the 1/16th of a second your not watching them is dangerous not for your dog but for your child! Or what if you need someone to baby-sit (your mother let's say) and the dog is guarding the children and bites your mom then what? Or worse yet if you have a birthday party or your children have friends over and the dog bites another child. This is so insane I don't even know what to tell you... please please please reconsider this contact the Maremma Sheepdog Club of America and talk to them about this they will be more than happy to give you personal accounts and what it takes to own these dogs. (I'll give you a hint farm and sheep are probably the first two requirements) I just want to bold this THESE DOGS ARE NOT MEANT TO BE PETS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES THEY ARE MEANT TO BE WORKING ANIMALS
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Mar 4, 2009 17:27
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Just to continue pounding this in, Maremma Sheepdogs are hardcore LGD. Probably one of the most hardcore. They use them for things like guarding penguin populations BECAUSE of this. Again: They are not good as pets. When you read something that says that they make okay companion dogs, they mean "if you also have a farm and stuff for the dog to do".
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Mar 4, 2009 17:28
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oh please, pet island and your working dogs 
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Mar 4, 2009 17:32
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fishy fishy posted:I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this type of dog in an urban setting and how did they cope? fishy fishy posted:Has anyone here lived with one of these dogs in an urban environment? Superconductor posted:I would have never in a million years had him in an urban setting, "6-Ethyl Bearcat posted:I think you'd be getting yourself into trouble with young kids and a pup like that in the house. Lioness posted:This isn't really a breed for that sort of lifestyle. So I guess if you are asking how they do in that environment, an urban, busy environment with a lot of activity - my answer is "poorly." Frogzilla posted:I am quite shocked that a breeder is giving you a Maremma in an urban setting. That is a terrible setting for this of dog. am I missing something You'd be better off with a pet rock imo. I feel bad for this puppy, it's only going to end in confusion and frustration for him/her. Just get a lab for christ's sake.
CompactFanny fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Mar 4, 2009 |
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Mar 4, 2009 17:37
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A tiger is rare and aggressive but you don't want one of those in your house or around your kids either.
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Mar 4, 2009 17:47
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I cannot even fathom having a baby, a toddler (especially one who is potentially autistic), and a puppy... Let alone a difficult breed of dog that is really not suited as a pet. What is your motivation in getting this breed rather than getting something like a GSD or rottie? A GSD would be protective, would go running with you, would probably be easier to train, and would also be family friendly. Is your only motivation that you want a "rare" dog? (Hint this is not a rare dog, just a bad choice as a pet.) Because honestly it sounds like you're choosing a dog as a fashion accessory or something, not because it would in any way fit with your family. Do you honestly want your kids to grow up with a dog they're not allowed to play with? Remember, they're going to form all of their opinions of pets based on this early interaction. Do you want them to have a miserable time with this dog? Because that's what it sounds like you're setting them up for. Wouldn't you rather them bond with a great family pet, and learn to share your lifelong love of dogs?
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Mar 4, 2009 17:50
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Calling troll; no one is that retarded.
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Mar 4, 2009 17:50
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Disclaimer: I am one of those people that think every kid should grow up with a dog. (Although my parents had their cocker spaniel for a year before I was born). Also, I am biased towards spaniels. If you want a dog to protect your house from being robbed or burglarized, I am pretty sure any dog will do. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression of the general consensus of research is that the presence of a dog, any dog of any size, exponentially decreases the chances of getting your home broken into. That said, there are also dogs that make good watch dogs (because they bark at everything) without being good guard dogs. Personally, I think if you are dead-set on getting a 'rare' dog, you should get a clumber spaniel. I haven't met one personally but all I have read says they have awesome personalities and are great family dogs (and good for urban settings because of low exercise requirements). edit: vvv I agree that It's probably a terrible idea to get a dog at this point, but it might be easier to convince the OP to go with a dog that might be more suitable to their lifestyle in the future than to forgo getting a dog altogether. I guess it really depends on how stubborn she is. I just wanted to provide alternative options in case she is dead-set on getting a dog. Also, what I meant by 'rare' was 'not a mainstream family pet' like a lab or GSD. jrr fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Mar 4, 2009 |
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Mar 4, 2009 17:59
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jrr posted:Personally, I think if you are dead-set on getting a 'rare' dog, you should get a clumber spaniel. I haven't met one personally but all I have read says they have awesome personalities and are great family dogs (and good for urban settings because of low exercise requirements). A clumber spaniel might be a good choice, but not now and not a puppy. And They're not all that rare. Plus if someone is dead set on getting a "rare" dog they need to completely re-think why the hell they want that dog in the first place. It just isn't right.
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Mar 4, 2009 18:05
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sucks to ur assmar posted:Plus if someone is dead set on getting a "rare" dog they need to completely re-think why the hell they want that dog in the first place. It just isn't right. I've never even heard of a maremma sheepdog, but if everything in this thread is accurate about their behavior then it's very obvious WHY no one sees them as pets. OP do you just want the maremma because it's rare and to hell with whether or not it's appropriate, or did you really think that this was appropriate for your family but were misinformed as to the extent of their "guarding my space" attitude?
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Mar 4, 2009 18:10
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Hook, line, and sinker. No way is this real. A freakin goofy lab would be fine for her, but not a freakin working dog. They're a dime a dozen, but they are fantastic family dogs. Go rescue a 2-5 year old lab instead. Or maybe I dont know poo poo about dogs. Actually, I dont, but my advice is still better than "ooooh rare doggie puppy woooooo!"
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Mar 4, 2009 18:17
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Spermy Smurf posted:A freakin goofy lab would be fine for her,
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Mar 4, 2009 18:21
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I don't know, it just seems so obscure for a troll. I mean a more efficient way to troll PI would be to post threads like "Is my vet overcharging me for this declaw" or "Recommend me a good labradoodle breeder."
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Mar 4, 2009 18:25
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Seriously OP, wait until your kids are slightly older and your situation is less hectic, and then get a nice calm older dog to chill with your kids. Getting a maremma to guard your small urban house is like attaching a flamethrower to your locker at the gym to make sure no one steals your keys.
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Mar 4, 2009 18:25
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The cats are going to be all the extra work you can handle, with feeding and litterbox cleaning. Besides, kids are freaking expensive. Can you afford MORE pet expenses than you already have, an expensive breeder dog, and possibly hospital bills for when your kids or their friends or someone else gets attacked? Where are you getting this dog from, anyway? I haven't heard any names.
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Mar 4, 2009 18:27
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6-Ethyl Bearcat posted:The dog was gorgeous, lovely to look at. She picked up 'sit' with a little bit of help just while I was there for a few hours. The information you're getting about "very independent" wasn't as applicable with this pup; she was very keen to be inside with us and very friendly to myself and my partner when we arrived. That dog's 18 weeks old. The protective instinct/drive will show up. In fact if it doesn't, the dog is not very well bred most likely. The Maremma Club of America states that it intensifies with age, too.
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Mar 4, 2009 18:32
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Buying a Maremma: The passive-aggressive way to tell your SO you REALLY didn't want kids.
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Mar 4, 2009 18:49
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Lioness posted:That dog's 18 weeks old. The protective instinct/drive will show up. In fact if it doesn't, the dog is not very well bred most likely. The Maremma Club of America states that it intensifies with age, too. Ahh, right. That doesn't surprise me.  OP, why do you think that this is a good idea? The poor thing would be cooped up all the time while you take care of your children. You wouldn't be able to take it to the dog park, or anywhere social with the family really, because they're so protective. I understand a love of dogs, I really do, but in this case your family's gotta come first. 6-Ethyl Bearcat fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Mar 5, 2009 |
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Mar 5, 2009 00:36
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