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So this has been a fun afternoon. I wanna punch the motherfucker that not only installed a shallow ceiling box (not their fault with the stud but still) but also used really long slotted screws for the mounting bracket. The ugly generic poo poo I replaced: 
devmd01 fucked around with this message at 00:16 on May 24, 2020 |
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May 24, 2020 00:12
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Sanity check: I was looking at my main service panel to see if there were any open spaces, and counted 320 amps worth of breakers. They’re all 220 though. This is fine, right?
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May 24, 2020 01:42
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wallaka posted:Sanity check: I was looking at my main service panel to see if there were any open spaces, and counted 320 amps worth of breakers. They’re all 220 though. This is fine, right? They probably aren't all 240v (double pole), because only certain appliances use that in a house. Maybe they are tandems? In any case, you can't just add up the breaker handles to estimate the load. There's a specific load calc an electrician (or you, maybe) can perform to determine what your main service should be: https://zenfixit.com/free-electrical-load-calculator/form-00.pdf?sfvrsn=1ca8e453_16 As a very rough rule of thumb: if you have a 200A service, you're almost certainly good to go. If you have natural gas and use it for heating/cooking/water heaters, you can usually get by with 100A, though more is always better. Look at the main breaker. What does it say? List you major electric appliances (stove? dryer? water heater? electric car? AC? elec baseboard heat?) and house sq/ft and a good guess can be made.
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May 24, 2020 02:32
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I hate post lights and I hate troubleshooting post lights.
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May 24, 2020 14:21
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B-Nasty posted:They probably aren't all 240v (double pole), because only certain appliances use that in a house. Maybe they are tandems? A/C, dryer, stove, water heater, and a breaker going to the secondary breaker panel inside the house. They should all be 240v as far as I can tell. It’s a 2200 square foot split level house.
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May 25, 2020 17:44
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Are there any rules I should be aware of as I plan my front porch extension as regards meter clearances and access? Here’s what I’m looking at right now: I want to take the porch here and extend it along this part of the house. That means the deck would be right over the meter, though. Still plenty accessible, nothing will be blocking access from the ground there, but I wasn’t sure if I need to account for clearance above the meter as well. Of course I’ll talk to the county inspector and we’ll have to get cleared permits and all, but I’m just trying to do some planning ahead of all that. If that’s strictly not allowed, would code generally allow for just extending the service entrance up to be above the deck? I’m imagining a fairly low impact alteration of putting a (somewhat smaller?) box where the meter is and extending the service wires from there up about 6’ in conduit to a new meter location above the deck. But I’m not sure if that’s allowed, either.
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May 26, 2020 18:13
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I think you would have to move the meter above the deck and ensure 30 inches of clearance around the box?
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May 26, 2020 18:38
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Blindeye posted:I think you would have to move the meter above the deck and ensure 30 inches of clearance around the box? On all sides? Weird, it certainly doesn't have 30" to that chimney bump out there. e: Oh, I think this is it: 1) 3’ clearance in front of the meter (out from the wall) 2) 30” wide working space in front of meter (so 30” total, not 30” on each side, could be as little as 15” on both sides or presumably something weird like 30” on one side and 0” on the other?) 3) 6’ headroom clearance or the meter height itself, whichever is higher. That all sound about right? That last one is probably what will get me. e again: Shoot, I think I mis-read it, it's actually 6'6", I'm sunk. Looks like I'll have to move the meter if I want to go through with this, oof. Sounds like service wires CAN be spliced, though, so I'm assuming we can just use splice where the meter was and run some conduit to a new box. Sounding more expensive by the moment, though. Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 21:05 on May 26, 2020 |
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May 26, 2020 18:44
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At least as you've described it I think you're right, that headroom part is going to be your sticking point. The way I'd interpret those requirements would be to imagine you have a box, 6' x 3' x 2.5' with one of the 2.5' faces against the wall where the meter is. Nothing can be blocking that box. Could you maybe step up that section of the deck to provide the required headroom? Make it maybe a built in table or something? The first "brilliant idea" that came to my mind was to have the deck surface be able to hinge up and out of the way in that area, but even if that would be technically legit (I'm guessing probably not) any plan involving being "technically compliant" with code is probably a bad idea.
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May 26, 2020 21:00
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I think I have two options, but they are both just alternate locations for the meter. Either above the deck, or further around the side of the house there, still below deck, but the grade's on a pretty good slope so it gets sufficiently low enough before long. Like, a horizontal run of conduit from a box where the meter is now, running off to the right around that bump out. I easily have 6'6" over there. I dunno, I'll mark a line for where I want the band joist for the deck, and I'll wander around looking for sufficient clearance. but worst-case scenario, I just run it straight up above the deck. Well, worst-case scenario, I can't do anything about it and the whole project is stillborn.
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May 26, 2020 21:08
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I'm thinking something like this might be my best bet: Replace the existing meter with an appropriate junction box, splice the service to run out through conduit to the face of the bump out, where I'll move the meter and the grade easily accommodates the 6' 6" requirement, and lets me put it a touch lower so it won't collide with the band joist for the porch extension. Then from the meter back through the conduit to the box that's replacing the existing meter, splice into the house supply there. I don't actually know if that's allowed, though, to have wires from both sides of the meter in the same conduit, so maybe there'd have to be two runs of conduit there. That's okay, it'll all be under the deck and won't be visible. I'd leave those details up to the electricians, anyhow. I don't wanna mess with splicing service wire or pulling meters or whatever. e: Obviously the stupid excede antenna won't be there, that's just waiting to be removed. Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 23:16 on May 26, 2020 |
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May 26, 2020 23:12
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Yeah this is all conjecture until you talk to your POCO. They may or may not allow you to have an unmetered junction box. I've seen it but it's non-standard and not something you'd want to have tucked under a porch. Depending on where your underground service is run, it may make more sense for your POCO to dig the wire back and move it over and/or splice it to move over to the new meter base location. Depending on how the underground service is run there, it may be necessary anyway to allow you to run new posts/piers for the porch extension.
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May 26, 2020 23:19
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Well, I know for sure the service doesn’t go near where I need new piers, I’ve had this area marked enough times in the past. But still, as you said, it’s all conjecture at this stage. Still, that’s part of forming the plan. Long story short, though, if I want to do this porch, I need to move the box, one way or another, and that was the big question today. Bummer though. :/
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May 27, 2020 01:21
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Yeah I completely get wanting to form a plan but it depends on what your POCO is willing to do, and potentially what your local inspector is happy with, which your electrician can advise on. I'm certainly not saying that it can't be done.
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May 27, 2020 01:57
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I will say I really hope the solution doesn’t involved digging as was suggested might be the answer. That spot is pretty congested and my job depends on nobody making a whoopsie-daisy with a shovel on my connection. Although I guess I could do with a surprise vacation. 
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May 27, 2020 02:06
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If it makes you feel any better, the Telco/cable lines are generally barely under the dirt so my first order of business would be to uncover and peel them up and out of the work area. It's a lot easier dealing with lines that come out of the ground and you can work them back. But maybe they'll be fine with a splice box or other related solution. (I have been forced to splice wire in conduit for utility reasons but it's obviously not advisable)
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May 27, 2020 02:27
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Yeah, I’ve discovered myself just how shallow the telco lines are here. I did this by severing my neighbor’s connection, and then confirming my fears when their high school aged kid came out of the house and started poking and prodding at the demarc as if that’d make it go. I asked if he was disconnected and yep. I tried to own up, called several of the provider’s numbers, and none of them indicated any interest in the issue. Yay centurylink. So I just got in there and patched it myself, probably saved the neighbor’s a week of downtime and a myself a hefty bill. The patch has held up apparently without issue for about three years now. I was pretty anal about the repair, though. And then I also have a couple equally shallow data lines connecting an outbuilding that I’ve added to the mess. That effort is unrelated to the previous outage I hit the neighbors with though, ha.
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May 27, 2020 02:51
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Uhhhh.... what? Is this common? Am I just dumb because I have a beginner's understanding of things? Box powers an overhead bathroom light and the bathroom vanity light.  Specifically, i guess I'm wondering why things are pigtailed the way they are. All the neutrals are pigtailled up? FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 03:20 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 03:16
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It looks to me like the bottom left wire is the source of power. Once the switch is on, the electricity will flow through the black wire pigtail and out to the different lights and fan. Then it comes back through the neutral wires in the pigtail, and back out through the single neutral wire in the same bundle as the first black wire that connects to the switch.
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May 27, 2020 04:28
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FilthyImp posted:Uhhhh.... what? Is this common? Am I just dumb because I have a beginner's understanding of things? Box powers more than that. With 4 runs of NM into that box, one is the source hot, 1 goes to the overhead light, 1 to the vanity light and the last one goes somewhere else. Top right and bottom left NM runs go to lights. One of the other two is the source hot. Neutrals are all attached together because house wiring is switched on the hot wires. That way, the least amount of wire is still energized when the switch is off. However, you got a bigger problem. You have backstabs. They kind of like to start fires. The good news is that it's cheap and easy to fix. For every switch and outlet in your home, turn the power off. Insert a narrow flathead screwdriver into the slot beside the backstab hole. That will release the spring and you'll be able to pull the cable wire out. Bend the wire into a hook and screw it down to the screw there. Edit: if you haven't figured it out, you need to check every switch and outlet in your house for backstabs. The good news is that you might be able to skip that hook bending step on your switches at least. Do you see those holes on the back sides of the screw terminals? Put the wires in there and tighten the screws down. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 05:08 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 05:05
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FilthyImp posted:
The only thing wrong is that it looks like the grounds aren't tied together. The backstab connections to the switches are legal if it's #14 wire, but not something I trust. The neutrals all together is correct as you want them connected all the time and the hots are made through the switch. SpartanIvy posted:It looks to me like the bottom left wire is the source of power. Once the switch is on, the electricity will flow through the black wire pigtail and out to the different lights and fan. Then it comes back through the neutral wires in the pigtail, and back out through the single neutral wire in the same bundle as the first black wire that connects to the switch. I think it's a trick of the picture. From what I can tell there's 4 nm cables. A power, a feed (to another switch or bath outlet), and two lights. The power, feed, and two pigtails feeding the switches are in the center.
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May 27, 2020 05:07
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SpartanIvy posted:Once the switch is on, the electricity will flow through the black wire pigtail and out to the different lights and fan. kid sinister posted:However, you got a bigger problem. You have backstabs. They kind of like to start fires. The good news is that it's cheap and easy to fix. I've been slowly redoing the outlets in the house and replacing those dumb things. Guess I should start looking at all the switches while I'm at it. Ahhhhhhh. Thanks for the replies guys, really helped make sense of things. I tried to install a new bath fan today and the good news is the led wall switch lights up. Bad news is the fan doesn't respond. This thing kicked my rear end so I'm calling it a day. FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 06:36 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 06:33
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kid sinister posted:However, you got a bigger problem. You have backstabs. They kind of like to start fires. I don't disagree with you, and I've told people the same thing. Multiple times I've seen them with scorch marks. However, I'm wondering...do we have any sort of evidence on this other than anecdotes? It'd be nice to be able to tell people this with some more confidence.
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May 27, 2020 07:08
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kid sinister posted:Insert a narrow flathead screwdriver into the slot beside the backstab hole. That will release the spring and you'll be able to pull the cable wire out. Bend the wire into a hook and screw it down to the screw there. Just be ready sometimes that isn't so easy and the outlet breaks. So buy a box of outlets ahead of time. Backstabs suck.
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May 27, 2020 13:28
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I fixed my girlfriends backstabbed outlets in her house and it took a whole lot of cursing to get those wires out. I had to cut the wires off on one outlet.
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May 27, 2020 15:01
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My SOP is to insert a small screwdriver into the release tab slot, and if that doesn't immediately release the conductor, I twist the screwdriver and break the whole side off the receptacle.
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May 27, 2020 15:04
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Does anyone make a GCFI socket with USB output on it? I can find sockets with either but not both. There's a GCFI plug near my kitchen sink and we routinely have a USB converter plugged into it with a little speaker output. Thought it might be nice to just directly plug USB into a socket but not sure if that combination exists. I assume I'm not seeing one because it might be inherently unsafe? Not sure.
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May 27, 2020 15:10
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That Works posted:Does anyone make a GCFI socket with USB output on it? I can find sockets with either but not both. There's a GCFI plug near my kitchen sink and we routinely have a USB converter plugged into it with a little speaker output. Thought it might be nice to just directly plug USB into a socket but not sure if that combination exists. I assume I'm not seeing one because it might be inherently unsafe? Not sure. It's because USB outlets take up internal space you don't have on a GFCI outlet. Secondly, they're all garbage unless things have changed recently.
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May 27, 2020 15:22
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angryrobots posted:My SOP is to insert a small screwdriver into the release tab slot, and if that doesn't immediately release the conductor, I twist the screwdriver and break the whole side off the receptacle. I have a small, tiny-flat-blade stubby screwdriver I keep in my tool box specifically for undoing backstabs. It's the perfect size where I can insert it into the slot and push on it with my thumb as I use the rest of my fingers to grab and yank the wire out. The clear flathead from the classic Craftsman set: https://www.amazon.com/Craftsman-17-Piece-Screwdriver-Set-31794/dp/B00JAWM6FQ Hasn't failed me yet.
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May 27, 2020 16:38
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I’ve also found it helps when they’re stubborn to push the wire into the backstab while also pressing the release tab instead of just yanking on it, frees it up better sometimes.
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May 27, 2020 18:28
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Only tangentially related but how the hell are push-in splices not banned yet? The other day while undoing decades of PO fuckery in my house I showed my fiance how bad they were by just grabbing one and gently pulling the wire out.
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May 27, 2020 18:43
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corgski posted:Only tangentially related but how the hell are push-in splices not banned yet? The other day while undoing decades of PO fuckery in my house I showed my fiance how bad they were by just grabbing one and gently pulling the wire out. Depends on the ones you are using. I recently repaired several outlets in my house by pig tailing them using these: https://www.amazon.com/Gardner-Bender-19-PC3-PushGard-Connectors/dp/B00CXK0ZBO?th=1 There simply was not enough room for wire nuts because the asshats who wired my house left only 1 inch of wire inside the box. I tried pulling the wire out of one of these with a pair of pliers just to test them. The body of the connector broke apart before the wire pulled out of the clips inside.
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May 27, 2020 19:23
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You will take my Wago 221's from my cold dead hands
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May 27, 2020 20:04
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stevewm posted:Depends on the ones you are using. You should have used wagos. stevewm posted:I tried pulling the wire out of one of these with a pair of pliers just to test them. The body of the connector broke apart before the wire pulled out of the clips inside. This is not the failure mode of spring clips/back stabs. The problem is that the wire expands when it's on/hot. Repeated cycling degrade the springiness of the spring steel, so it eventually fatigues enough to get hotter. Which causes faster metal fatigue, which makes is happen even faster up until it's hot enough to let the smoke out, or loose enough to start arcing.
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May 27, 2020 20:07
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I'm also a member of the Wago Gang. The things are life savers.
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May 27, 2020 20:08
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Lever nuts > push nuts.
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May 27, 2020 22:13
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kid sinister posted:Lever nuts > push nuts. What about deez nuts
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May 27, 2020 23:03
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Bad Munki posted:What about deez nuts This junction box has a bad case of ligma.
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May 28, 2020 03:49
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Bad Munki posted:What about deez nuts Ask OP's mom.
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May 28, 2020 06:45
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| # ? Apr 24, 2024 00:11 |
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Bad Munki posted:What about deez nuts
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May 28, 2020 15:41
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