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Nevets posted:We are running some cat5 in an underground pvc conduit between two buildings at my work. I ordered some burial rated FTP cable to put in it and some ethernet surge suppressors for good measure. Should I ground both ends of the run or just 1? You should only ground one end, if the two buildings are not grounded separately, running a cat-5 and grounding both ends could cause what's called a "ground loop" where your cat-5 could carry a significant amount of current, with deleterious effects (i.e. melting), even if it doesn't melt it could cause undesirable interference. DaveSauce posted:10AWG won't carry 50A. Regarding ampacity of NEMA outlets, the ampacity on the outlet does not matter except for the max current the outlet can handle, as long as the wiring is fused appropriately for its AWG and the load doesn't exceed that amount, it's fine, my 240V welder uses 12A at 240V and a 6-50, my EVSE also draws 24A from a 6-50 #10 and a 30A breaker is fine for this, and permissible by code. tater_salad posted:Wiring question. What is the 3-prong "no-ground" method, it does bot sound safe. H110Hawk posted:You can adapt a 14-50 to 6-50 with a little pigtail looking cable. I put in a 14-50 on the assumption that having a neutral is more flexible than not having one. I cut the 14-50 off my EVSE so I could plug it into the same outlet as my welder, I was operating off the assumption that the neutral was unused, since almost all EVSE's come with a 6-50 and a 14-50, my assumption was correct.
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Aug 19, 2020 08:15
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Yeah, if no one else is seeing it it could be the connection at the weather head I guess, it's weird that it's not lowering with specific loads, i.e. every time the AC comes on the voltage kicks down. I kinda suspect that it is happening to your neighbors, and they're just not noticing. E: if voltage is lower with all your breakers off, it is almost certainly transformer or upstream distribution level, you could have the worst, most corroded meter stabs and weather head connections, and they'll read 240V with 0 load on them. Elviscat fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Aug 25, 2020 |
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Aug 25, 2020 01:46
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I can believe it, after I discovered the ground fault to 23kV that was shocking my customer through her faucet. Or the Chlorine generating plant that was working occasionally when the cupric oxide was at a high enough concentration to conduct current. I just think Occam dictates OP is on a hosed up Service and their neighbors are dumb.
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Aug 25, 2020 05:56
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bEatmstrJ posted:It's less exciting than you want to believe. You need a dedicated circuit for the motor for that dust collector, if you're going with a dedicated circuit I'd wire if with a 240V 15A 14ga line, that's the easiest way. You need a 10ga, 30 amp circuit if you want to go with 120V, I don't see an upside to doing it this way. Also gently caress that Electrician, he should have his license revoked.
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Aug 26, 2020 01:25
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It's grody, but using conduit as mechanical protection for NM is perfectly acceptable (334.15 (B)), I've done it when we were just doing someones garage and didn't want to break out the 'ol THHN rack. I don't recommend fishing 2x 12-2NM/B and 1x 10-2 NM/B through a 1/2" conduit though, also you don't meet wire fill requirements if you do, and you have an excellent chance of damaging a cable. You could do 3x #12 THHN (one white, two colored) and 3x #10 THHN (one each white, black, and green/bare) and (barely) meet wire fill. Best way would be to run a new conduit to your dust collector, or fish NM around to a wall outlet. And yeah, dunno what kinda jank rear end electrician runs 14 gauge for a shop, then fuses it at 20A, was he actually licensed?
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Aug 27, 2020 04:09
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That's.... fine, it's not what a professional would do but w/e. Note: the conduit must be grounded by the ground wire on the #10, so make sure that ties in to a metal box or something somewhere. E: lol, didn't notice the irony of it being much better than the professional who installed the original when I posted that Does either conduit have bends? If so have fun getting those cables around them. Elviscat fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Aug 27, 2020 |
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Aug 27, 2020 05:25
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EMT, or if you're feeling fancy, Rigid. Seriously it all sucks, genuine metal wiremould holds up and is paintable at least. I think conduit looks better, I know most people don't agree with me.
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Aug 28, 2020 03:19
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That's schedule 40 PVC conduit, that'd work just fine, it likes to sag though, so if you use it on a ceiling strap the heck out of it, it is super easy to work with, and provides surprisingly good mechanical protection.
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Aug 28, 2020 03:26
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That's a pretty nice solution. It's going to confuse whoever buys your house soooooo bad tho.
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Aug 29, 2020 05:47
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bEatmstrJ posted:Ok, this helps. I guess my concern was putting a 90 degree bend in the EMT that goes into the ceiling would be a bit of a challenge. I'm guessing I have to use a 90 degree fitting with a little stub of EMT through the drywall, then terminate the EMT with an EMT to NM transition (or go straight into the other junction box if possible). The easiest way is to mount a junction box on the end of the EMT, with an NM clamp coming out the back, so where you have box "a" but with no box "b" just make a sufficiently large hole for the clamp so you can tighten it in the attic. This approach leaves you with less conduit bending and fittings, and less 90s is better when fishing NM through conduit. You can also transition to THHN in this box if you want to feel fancy. An LB with an NM clamp will also work good, it would look worse and have less room imo. E: You can use a pull elbow for the 90⁰ in the EMT, as long as the cover is accessible, I would go with an LR or an LL, since the short elbows they make for EMT are going to SUCK to bend NM through. Elviscat fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Sep 2, 2020 |
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Sep 2, 2020 01:00
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Why don't you run the subpanel from that exterior breaker panel? I'd come out the bottom of that, run along the side of the house, down into the ground, then back up the post. I'd go THHN/THWN in PVC conduit for a good mix of damage protection and ease of use, make sure you have a pulling body (LB etc) for every 360⁰ of conduit bend. For your panel over the joist, I think you're SOL on anything besides drilling holes on an angle, you can drill big holes if you want.
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Sep 2, 2020 20:19
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skylined! posted:Ya I guess I wasn't clear, I'll be running the subpanel from the exterior panel - these are two separate issues, one for wiring the carport, one for rewiring the rest of the house. Just wondering how much length of wire, if any, I can run inside the crawl space to the subpanel, or do I need to plan on trenching right under the panel and dig to where it will pick up in the carport. You can run all the way out to that corner in the crawlspace if you want, if you do that probably the easiest way would be to use SE cable, then sleeve it in PVC from below grade on the corner of the house, then all the way up that post, then transition back to just SE cable when you hit the carport rafters. I'd run PVC on the exterior of the wall so I could go with THHN, but that would be uglier. Best way to find the edges of your wall is pull the quarter round up carefully, then take a long, very thin drillbit and drill some holes under where it was in the floor, this will mark both sides of the wall to make drilling easier.
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Sep 2, 2020 22:12
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That's fine, that microair controller is really cool, I didn't know you could get a (presumably IGBT based? ) soft starter in that small and affordable a package. Your load calculations look fine, your genset should have some margin for inrush current too.
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Sep 3, 2020 03:57
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Ugh, sorry about that, type SE was banned as a wiring method in my jurisdiction, so I'm not as familiar with it as I should be. That type URD cable is not listed by the NEC, which means only utilities can use it. Type USE cable has to be sleeved in PVC anywhere it's not buried. I think your best option is to just use PVC the whole way and pull individual conductors through it.
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Sep 4, 2020 00:08
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Yeah, that or THWN (all THHN I know of is dual rated as this) which bizarrely doesn't show up on their website.
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Sep 4, 2020 02:45
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TBF to him, it is probably fine. E: from a "not burning your house down" perspective, not from a code perspective. I've never gotten called an idiot by a CEO before, how much Coke does being a CEO of a wire company get you anyways? E2: doing some research, a lot of URD is dual rated as USE, ir has individual conductors rated as XHHW, the former makes it good for direct burial (but it can't be used inside the shell of a structure) the second makes it fine for use inside conduit, interesting! I looked on the links you provided and couldn't find any dual ratings. Elviscat fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Sep 4, 2020 |
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Sep 4, 2020 03:45
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H110Hawk posted:That looks neat. The irony of needing a power outlet for the thing that lives in your panel cracks me up. If I had an outlet close by I would buy this in a heartbeat. You should be able to add a receptacle near your panel quite easily...
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Sep 7, 2020 05:14
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Ensure you have proper space for an additional circuit breaker, if you do not have additional space, make sure you can convert an existing single breaker to a half-time. Once that's done, add the breaker, also add additional strain relief to the bottom of your panel in the form.of... Oh, you're joking aren't you?
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Sep 7, 2020 06:02
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STR posted:I've worked in a live panel and have insulated tools, but not PPE, and uh, it's 6 inches from the meter. If you're comfortable working in a live panel I'd just go for it TBH, you don't spend a lot of time near the bus bars, except to plug the breaker on.
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Sep 8, 2020 22:53
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The meter box has a tamper seal from the city. So I guess double lugging the 50 amp AC breaker it is, then! (kidding.. though it should have a 20 amp breaker going by the AC's data panel).
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:They're handy because you can strip a little more off the ends, use a motor powered stripper/twister, then gorilla hand luke one of those on it and be done in like 15 seconds. That thing is a joke right? Do not use that thing. shame on an IGA posted:I don't understand why you would want to run a star topology like that? There's no benefit unless you go all the way with it, run pack to the panel and have each outlet on a seperate circuit and even then, multiplying the expense of breakers and GFCI sixfold only gains you the option to run a toaster on each outlet simultaneously I've done it before where access to the walls is difficult, it's usually better to do several small boxes for wire fill and amount of wire reasons. A job my buddy was the General on, they had a relative who was licensed, who did that for EVERY CIRCUIT, big blue wirenuts abounding. He was also smoking meth in the crawlspace and I got called in because their dishwasher was shocking them, because the hot and ground were tied together (!)
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Sep 11, 2020 18:07
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Pancakes are pretty marginal for fan installs, you should use a proper fan-rated box if you can. You can splice wires in a single gang box. I would put a switch in the wall above the receptacle you're getting power from, I don't like the idea of a remote ir the breaker being the only means of operating the fan, plus it gives you another hand-hole in the drywall for fishing wires. Is it an attic above the fan? If it's not, do you know the joists run the right way for fishing wire through them? If it is an attic, as there a circuit up there you can pull power from instead? If so it would be trivially easy to put a switch in near the door. Is there overhead lighting in the room already? If so that would be preferable to tying into the outlet, you should be able to take the existing single-gang switch box out, fish wires from the attic, and replace it with a double-gang with no wall repairs (if it's under an atticl Finally, make sure the outlet's on a 15 amp circuit and already wired with 14ga.
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Sep 11, 2020 20:06
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Not really applicable, but I HATE that, it's the cheapest laziest construction, at least throw a boob light in each room!
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Sep 11, 2020 21:49
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El Mero Mero posted:so that's a current mystery. I thought that's what the hardware was supposed to solve?  That's seriously cool though, thanks for the trip report.
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Sep 12, 2020 07:27
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:No. Agreed. You can use a hand-hole though if it's easier, it's a little.plastic liner with a cover that gives you access to the junction box, if you do it right it can be right at grade so it's unobtrusive and you can mow over it etc. Something like this Come up from your trench depth to a rated box under the lid
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Sep 12, 2020 19:08
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Houston Rockets posted:Hoping someone can help advise me here, definitely in the "depression" stage of project grief and trying to avoid shelling out the >$1K an electrician quoted me to put it behind me. Have done plenty of interior electrical previously but this type of install is new to me. 1) sounds like you're ready to do it, if you're an avid woodworker it makes a ton of sense to have a subpanel in the garage. 2) it's more that this type of NM cable is not rated for outdoors. I don't like to tell people anything other than to strictly, 100% follow the NEC online.... but is anything bad going to happen if you have 3' of romex sleeves outside? No. Also, you want to avoid as many splices as possible with a feeder. You can run up through the wall to the back of the panel, or put a JB in the crawlspace if it really worries you that much. 3) if you're surface mounting the panel anyway, I'd just use an LB with a nipple and bushing through the wall near the floor, fire caulked, then run an EMT sleeve up the wall, this is probably the easiest route anyways. 4) as said above, you seem familiar with it anyways, just go for it, and if you have questions along the way, ask. If you put a surface mount subpanel in your garage it'll be really easy to do EMT and THHN for everything, which gives you a ton of flexibility in your future.
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Sep 13, 2020 00:50
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Take a picture.
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Sep 13, 2020 02:19
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That is a spooky rear end closet. Utility room in a basement? That's deffo your water main bond though, you can see the clamp for it right under your water meter, should be able to just stick it back in. Nice catch by your wife there. E: when was your house built? There's a few weird things going on there, like why is that wire 3 feet longer than it needs to be? How'd it get disconnected? E2: just to be clear, it is supposed to be retained by the screw in the clamp near the concrete where your water main enters, that clamp looks to be a little hosed, and if you want you may want to replace it with a nice brass one, since it looks like it's suffered some corrosion. Like this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Blackburn-Bronze-Ground-Clamp-1-2-1-in-J-B1-25/202907605 Elviscat fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Sep 13, 2020 |
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Sep 13, 2020 02:33
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tater_salad posted:This all got fixed today. The 20a breaker they was feeding a 14ga wire got 12 ga wire that went to the fridge and freezer. Congrats on the way lower chance of burning your house down!
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Sep 14, 2020 03:16
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Skinnymansbeerbelly posted:No, it's enclosed. Tentatively I'm thinking Dow 737 neutral cure silicone sealant, because it's data sheet does not warn against any plastic reactivity. The listed product for this type of thing is cat poo poo (duct sealant) but a silicone sealant that doesn't produce (butyl?) Acid when curing should be fine too.
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Sep 15, 2020 21:09
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skylined! posted:Thanks for all this but I’m more stuck on the wire topology. Physical access isn’t a problem - my house is plaster and lathe with no fire breaks and I can mostly follow the old runs for pre drilled holes to run through. Stop overthinking it, just run power from box to box, if it makes it easier put a junction box above/below each switch.
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Sep 16, 2020 16:22
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You just loosen the strain relief and connections in the base that clips into the track, pull wire to length, cut and tighten everything back down in those right?
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Sep 19, 2020 19:32
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Here's a badly drawn diagram of what you need. 1x14/2 from attic/power source 1x14/2 from switch to F/L/H 1x14/3 from switch to F/L/H. Tie all grounds in each jbox, ground the box if metal (omitted from diagram for clarity) Alternately you can tie all neutrals together in attic jbox, but the NEC prohibition against reidentifying neutrals make that redundant. Hope my bad drafting skills/handwriting are legible.
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Sep 20, 2020 05:47
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So it's probably a switch leg, neutral is reading hot with the NCV because something is plugged in to one of the outlets, so the neutral is at 120v potential (return from whatevers plugged in" That's not okay and a safety hazard, you should be able to find the box that switch leg goes to and change the switch leg from hot to neutral. E: On closer reading, it sounds like it's not a switch leg, what's hooked up to the other side of the switch? Can we get a picture? Elviscat fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 04:04
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Yeah, it's just hard to imagine without seeing. Have you tried continuity testing the wires to verify where they go? Or opened up the two outlets? It should be black:load side of switch Neutral:other neutrals in box. Unless it's a switch leg. You can try replicating a normal switch by trying wires together with nuts to see what they do, and if your smart switch is being fucky.
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Sep 22, 2020 05:31
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No, that's a good idea, you want a "chase nipple" or "close nipple" to connect your pull box to the knockout on the panel (if the box is metallic)
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Sep 25, 2020 06:51
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Yeah, insulation under the screw is gonna cause a poor electrical connection, could lead to a high resistance connection and the outlet burning up. If you don't want to mess with the wire much more you can carefully strip the excess with a razor.
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Sep 28, 2020 15:06
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I like to reverse the twist of the strands before looping, it helps the screw draw them in. But really just get outlets that use a screw and a plate to tighten the wires.
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Oct 2, 2020 18:34
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FogHelmut posted:Yeah that's a good idea, but the ones I got are "weather resistant" and don't have that. Is it necessary to be weather resistant if they're already going in an outdoor box? No, regular outlets are fine in an outdoor box, I'm curious what makes an outlet weather resistant though. They are GFI protected, right? Ferrule posted:What? Lol.
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Oct 3, 2020 18:10
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Elysium posted:Ok cool, so nothing is actually wired “wrong”, it’s just that half the plug is literally not connected. Why does the one wire connect white and black? Is that just a switch thing? Yeah, it's what's called a "switch leg" it sends power to the switch and back, not cool anymore, but perfectly acceptable when that outlet was installed, although even then they should have "re-identified" the white as a "hot connector" you can wrap some red or black tape around it to avoid confusing people in the future. Totally bizarre they'd remove the tab on the outlet, but not wire it.
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Oct 9, 2020 22:23
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Wait a sec, I know you said "ignore the orange wire" but why is there an orange wire (cable) coming out of your junction box?
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Oct 9, 2020 22:24
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