Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
Liesmith
Jan 29, 2006

by Y Kant Ozma Post

KuangMkV posted:

For some reason I thought you had a real down on The Once and Future King.

no its amazing. i wrote my dissertation on it. Sure, there are huge flaws in it and I'm happy to talk about them but I love it and want to kiss it on the lips

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

KuangMkV
Jan 25, 2003

Liesmith posted:

no its amazing. i wrote my dissertation on it. Sure, there are huge flaws in it and I'm happy to talk about them but I love it and want to kiss it on the lips

Oh, okay good. :) I love the poo poo out of that book and was bummed thinking that the only legit authority on Arthurian legend I know thought it sucked!

crime fighting hog
Jun 29, 2006

I only pray, Heaven knows when to lift you out

Liesmith posted:

no its amazing. i wrote my dissertation on it. Sure, there are huge flaws in it and I'm happy to talk about them but I love it and want to kiss it on the lips

Pass the port

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

Mikan posted:

Fighters have Daily and Encounter powers with a relatively flimsy in-universe justification for how these moves are so taxing that you can only do them once per day / per encounter. Wizards have Dailies and Encounters because that's how magic works. See the difference?

A fighter exhausting his mental and physical reserves, reducing his options in combat: flimsy justification, reeking of "game design"

A wizard only being able to "hold" so many spells of each quantum "level" in his brain between periods of rest: ~Verisimilitude!~

Darwinism
Jan 6, 2008


Bane Guard is nothing compared to how lovely Frank can be when he actually tries.


Holy poo poo EM you have a lot of pages of 'narding

Rasamune
Jan 19, 2011

MORT
MORT
MORT
The problem I have with making something compketely new, like they did with 4e it is ends up being a very different game to me. i went back to D&D because of the things that made D&D for me over the years, but take away enough of those and I am no longer an automatic customer butnhave to be sold on the new edition (and if the play and mechaics dont appeal to me, i wont make the switch). Right now I have plenty of games I enjoy that arn't D&D and the only thing that will bring me back after 4E is a supported edition that plays much more like pre-4E D&D.

J. Philliam Graves
Dec 26, 2008

FactsAreUseless posted:

And no matter what, sticking out like a sore thumb will get you teased, whether it be gender, ethnicity, or otherwise.

There's no girl problem.

Nothing needs to be fixed.
We have always been at war with Yu-Gi-Oh.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth

Mikan posted:

As a member of so many hobbies that reward mastery of trivial skills (:cool:) the RPG industry is the worst

It's mainly because in RPGs more than, say, video games, connections carry a lot of clout for some reason. Mainly this is because most gamers imagine every publisher is just a garage industry where everyone involved is writing everything and poo poo. So, to a lot of dumb nerds, if you say, I dunno, Jim the Dude Who Writes For The Company That Writes That Game I Like is a shitbag, than you also are saying That Game I Like was written by shitbags all around, and thus, is for shitbags, and I'm no shitbag!

Rasamune
Jan 19, 2011

MORT
MORT
MORT
No. D&D has gotten too far away from what it once was and needs to return. I should be able to pull Keep on the Borderlands off the shelf and run it in a game of D&D with minimal conversion, not scrap everything but names and start over.

I don't mind improvements and refinements to the game, but I don't want a new game like 4E tried to do. Even 3E pushed the envelope too far sometimes.

All a "new" game edition will do is further fracture the existing game base. We don't need that, what we need is a unification.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Liesmith posted:

no its amazing. i wrote my dissertation on it. Sure, there are huge flaws in it and I'm happy to talk about them but I love it and want to kiss it on the lips

So how bad is Jack Whyte's Camulod series ?

Mikan
Sep 5, 2007

by Radium

but so many rpg fans are shitbags
The most depressing thing about grognards.txt is that it's not difficult to find things to post here. They are the norm in the RPG community.
The common response to grognards.txt isn't "look at how awful all of these things are", it's "look at all those posters being intolerant of other opinions, what a bunch of trolls". Like we're the monsters for calling out this poo poo

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

Darwinism posted:

Holy poo poo EM you have a lot of pages of 'narding

I need attention. :(

PeterWeller
Apr 21, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Doc Hawkins posted:

You're a literature guy, so I guess you don't hear people compare computer programming to wizardry dozens of times a year on average? Here's the opening words of Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, one of the grandest oldest grand old books in the field, grog-thesis highlighted:

Computer programming isn't wizardry. Rhetoric is wizardry. And that still didn't stop Antony from nailing Cicero's hands to the Senate door.

Guilty Spork
Feb 26, 2011

Thunder rolled. It rolled a six.
From a swiftly-closed RPG.net thread:

quote:

My Personal 4E Epihpany

So obviously I’m late to the party. I’ve really just started getting into 4E heavily, running a campaign for some friends. The more I play, the more something unidentifiable has been bugging me and I think I’ve put my finger on it. I’ve read similar comments in the past so my thoughts are by no means unique, but I never paid much attention to them. But now it’s like a switch has been flipped and all of those similar comments have rose to the surface at once. Now I get it.

So I’m sure many of you have already come to this realization and many probably disagree:

I can now see first-hand why 4E is so polarizing and also, why it has failed. It’s not really D&D. It feels much more like a miniatures board game based on D&D, with some RPG elements. Like an advanced version of Descent for those of you familiar with that game.

4E is an interesting and fun game – good in its own right. But the ultimate self-realization for me is that it doesn’t scratch the D&D itch. I don’t “feel” like I’m in a D&D campaign right now… yet I’m currently running one for my friends?

Mikan
Sep 5, 2007

by Radium

That's exactly the kind of rule I'd love to see back. I shouldn't need to sort through a pile of cards with the specific ability to go into lawnmower mode on such characters and it shouldn't be limited to X number of times per encounter or per day or whatever. Just return to the tried and tested, "take Level number of attacks every round against 1HD or less creatures" and leave it at that. I'll come up with my own description on how my character goes about it. At the same time, let me get back extra attacks against higher level creatures too. For all I care, you could probably grant the Fighter Level number of attacks every round against everyone and it would work nicely aesthetically. I just don't want to go to that kind of roll fest with the d20 mechanic, so it needs to function differently.

Chaltab
Feb 16, 2011

So shocked someone got me an avatar!

Rasamune posted:

All a "new" game edition will do is further fracture the existing game base. We don't need that, what we need is a unification.
There can be no unification. What fans of 4E want and what grogs want are so fundamentally different (as much as two versions of D&D can be fundamentally different) that some halfway milquetoast game that 'appeals to everyone' is only going to appeal to people who don't really have much of a preference for 3.X or 4E to begin with.

Even if 5E doesn't suck, the hardcore 4E fans and the hardcore Pathfinder fans aren't going to embrace it when they have two games that give them what they want already.

Rasamune
Jan 19, 2011

MORT
MORT
MORT

Guilty Spork posted:

From a swiftly-closed RPG.net thread:

Ah ha ha ha ha ha

"Guys, I finally figured it out! I figured out why I don't like 4th edition! Ready?

"Seriously, I don't wanna blow your minds or anything, so brace yourselves. Are you ready?

"Here goes:

"4E = WOW LOLOLOL NOT D&D BABBY'S FIRST RPG DESCENT VIDEO GAME HA$BRO"

fosborb
Dec 15, 2006



Chronic Good Poster

Rasamune posted:

Ah ha ha ha ha ha

"Guys, I finally figured it out! I figured out why I don't like 4th edition! Ready?

"Seriously, I don't wanna blow your minds or anything, so brace yourselves. Are you ready?

"Here goes:

"4E = WOW LOLOLOL NOT D&D BABBY'S FIRST RPG DESCENT VIDEO GAME HA$BRO"

I hope this troll lasts forever. There's just something so pure about it. I want to be in an old person silo, Power Rangers on Nick at Nite, and that douche Aiden from across the hall yells at me (because I can't hear) FOUREE IS FOR WOW BABBYS.

Rasamune
Jan 19, 2011

MORT
MORT
MORT
:siren: :tinfoil: OH poo poo THEY'RE ONTO US :tinfoil: :siren:

quote:

Actually, having checked to see that this is in fact part of a troll thread shitstorm by the Something Awful dumbasses, I think TheFlatline is right. This is a troll thread.

The OP is just saying stupid poo poo to offend us so that the Something Awful types can circle jerk each other some more. I predict that we're about to be invaded by a bunch more dumbasses that I'm going to have to put on ignore. Last year there was an invasion of trolls from there, I'm guessing it's just time.

-Frank

Mikan
Sep 5, 2007

by Radium

Rasamune posted:

:siren: :tinfoil: OH poo poo THEY'RE ONTO US :tinfoil: :siren:

Mikan posted:

The common response to grognards.txt isn't "look at how awful all of these things are", it's "look at all those posters being intolerant of other opinions, what a bunch of trolls". Like we're the monsters for calling out this poo poo

:ironicat:

Hey Frank if you're reading this you are a bad game designer. Trolled.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

Rasamune posted:

:siren: :tinfoil: OH poo poo THEY'RE ONTO US :tinfoil: :siren:

Frank:

Pointing out that you're a loving idiot who knows nothing about game design isn't trolling.

It's a provable statement of fact.

Fidel Cuckstro
Jul 2, 2007

Yo Frank what's it like knowing that Greg Stolze is more famous than you even inside the tiny world of TTRPGs?

terminal chillness
Oct 16, 2008

This baby is off the charts

quote:

the Something Awful types can circle jerk each other some more.

:ironicat:

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

poo poo, I'm gonna get called out again, aren't I?

Mikan
Sep 5, 2007

by Radium

Evil Mastermind from grognards.txt

Come out and play.

I'm "a loving idiot" to you?

Come over to the gaming den. We will have a Magical Tea Party.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Please tell me he actually said that.

Ettin
Oct 2, 2010

quote:

While I like to see people insulting Frank and calling him stupid... those something awful guys there are so drat loving moronic and so clearly wrong... they just pick any quote and call it stupid and anger inducing... for no relevant reason, they don't need one, just you know, they hate Frank or something.

They are so dumb about calling things dumb they discredit ever calling anything dumb that Frank or anyone says. As someone who likes to call stupid things stupid this offends me, because when you say stupid things to call something sensible stupid it undermines those of us with the ability to tell the loving difference. Someone you dislike, someone who even has said stupid things in the past, is not automatically saying stupid things now and not understanding that makes you loving stupid. Even shadzar, in a manner similar to monkeys on typewriters, may, one day, in an imagined future, say something moderately decipherable as sanity.

But all in all gently caress it, compared to 5 shadzar "what is a thingz?" threads in one week...

Just to be clear, I am quoting this guy because he is apparently defending "to pattern match die you have to check every single die against every other die individually!"

Frank doesn't get quoted for no reason, he gets quoted because he is a manchild who knows nothing of game design.

Rasamune
Jan 19, 2011

MORT
MORT
MORT

Dr Pepper posted:

Please tell me he actually said that.

Oh, if only

PSI-5
Aug 21, 2007

The servolator is fried.
Those whole thread is so meta I can't tell who's quoting whom. I'm now so confused I'm starting to think that half the guys sperging here are actually closet grogs.

Still, it's a good laff, innit?

Mikan
Sep 5, 2007

by Radium

quote:

Early fantasy roleplaying was built off fantasy fiction, which was in turn written back in the 20s and 30s and stuff when racism was socially acceptable and racialism was a thing that wouldn't get you shanked. Fantasy genetics were applied after the fact and gave us such fun and excitement as half-elves, half-orcs, half-dwarfs, dwelfs, half-dragons, half-demons, etc., and if you get into all the sub-races and poo poo you could be half-moon-elf or half-drow or half-svirfneblin. If, Ghost forbid, your ancestors were weird, there are even ways you could count as quarter-elf or half-half-orc and half-half-elf in some supplements. At the bottom of the genetic pile, representing the ultimate horrors of miscegenation, are the mongrelmen.

Well, consider this: what about a game where all the PCs (and most of the NPCs) are mongrelmen? Because our understanding of genetics is more advanced now, and we know that human "races" are pretty much bullshit, that a species represents a spectrum of individuals with a similar genetic code, and that passing genes between species is possible in many ways. So in a fantasy world where you have humans that will gently caress anything, and are in any way capable of producing viable offspring with some other (closely related) species, there will be no "pure" anything - if that term even had any real meaning - and every player would select the character's inherited traits from an available pool.

What happens, then, when the imaginary category of fantasy "race" disappears? PCs will have to chose which fantasy culture and possibly ethnicity they belong to instead, based on things like where they grew up, what language they speak, what pantheon they light fires to, that sort of thing. No more dwarfs, just minerclan hammerbearers that can g'rock their k'kok correctly.

quote:

Yes, this happens, because in D&D, "Elf" is a country (the home village). You get to play as a guy from there.

Here, I'll create another Race:

Roman - Romans are a fierce and warlike humanoid race. They look like humans, but have wavy or curly hair, from a usually dark color.

+2 Constitution, -2 Wisdom. Romans are a sturdy, stout race, but while as smart as humans, they'd rather borrow another race's pantheon other than worship their own; and aren't known by being perceptive.
Medium: As Medium creatures, romans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Roman base land speed is 30 feet.
Normal vision: Romans can see in the dark as well as humans (that's it, not very well).
Urbane: Rome, their city, holds more than 1 million people, a mind boggling number for most other races. Romans have a +2 racial bonus on Gather Information and urban Survival checks.
Cosmopolitan Learning: Growing up in an imperial center in contact with all races, romans are exposed to a wide lot of arcane and strange knowledge. Romans pick two any skills from the skill list and treat them as class skills. They also get two free skill ranks per level (x4 at first level, as normal).
Weapon Familiarity: Romans begin play knowing how to use the short sword, the short spear and the large shield.
+1 racial bonus on attack rolls against barbarians.
Automatic Languages: Common and Latin. Bonus Languages: Greek, Egyptian, Celtic, Scythian and Goblin.
Favored Class: Fighter. A multiclass roman's fighter class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing

quote:

this is just stupid.

Elf wizard player: HAHA i beat you because my wizard is already better being an elf than a human.

this is the kind of crap thinking that needs to be done away with.

thus why i said in my race thread, to have humans ONLY in core 5e to let people get used to playing the game, rather than competing with the other players to try to win against them.

ANY difference from one race to another will give an "advantage" in a specific class to those that think the game is a competition between players.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003

La morte non ha sesso
I like it when somebody on another forum thinks grognards.txt was something somebody concocted yesterday, specifically to troll them.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

How much more proof can I give that Trollman is a loving idiot? I've dissected his stupid-associated rules so many times.

Mikan
Sep 5, 2007

by Radium

PSI-5 posted:

Those whole thread is so meta I can't tell who's quoting whom. I'm now so confused I'm starting to think that half the guys sperging here are actually closet grogs.

Still, it's a good laff, innit?

:ironicat:

Boy, have I got some bad news for you

terminal chillness
Oct 16, 2008

This baby is off the charts

Ettin posted:

Just to be clear, I am quoting this guy because he is apparently defending "to pattern match die you have to check every single die against every other die individually!"

Frank doesn't get quoted for no reason, he gets quoted because he is a manchild who knows nothing of game design.

Yes, it is we who are the idiots. You got us again TGD! You got us again.

Mikan
Sep 5, 2007

by Radium

Ettin posted:

Just to be clear, I am quoting this guy because he is apparently defending "to pattern match die you have to check every single die against every other die individually!"

Frank doesn't get quoted for no reason, he gets quoted because he is a manchild who knows nothing of game design.

That guy wrote the word stupid so many times it's lost all meaning
except in regards to Frank Trollman, who is stupid and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near game design

Mikan
Sep 5, 2007

by Radium

Dr Nick posted:

Yes, it is we who are the idiots. You got us again TGD! You got us again.

I keep telling you guys they're the cooler TGD. gaming den for life, eat poo poo trad games discussion

FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011

Halloween Jack posted:

I like it when somebody on another forum thinks grognards.txt was something somebody concocted yesterday, specifically to troll them.
We have always been at war with RPG.net.

terminal chillness
Oct 16, 2008

This baby is off the charts
poo poo, someone buy Frank an account so he can come in here and defend himself.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Evil Mastermind posted:

How much more proof can I give that Trollman is a loving idiot? I've dissected his stupid-associated rules so many times.

You can't because he's not interested in discussing or learning about whatever RPG he's talking about. If he was when people corrected him he'd listen.

No, he's interested in Being Right Because He's Frank Trollman.

Dr Nick posted:

poo poo, someone buy Frank an account so he can come in here and defend himself.

All that would happen is that he'd get banned in a week and somebody would lose some money.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Ettin
Oct 2, 2010

quote:

Wow, it's like we're being trolled into violating one of our few rules here. I'll resist tho and just set the ignore beam to stun.

To Kemper, I'm assuming you came here in good faith, hopefully some of the analysis, if not the insults will take seed and be helpful to your endeavors.
To the douchebags on something awful, well, I don't really have any hope that you can read your way out of this sentence let alone understand basic math, so gently caress off.

You know I feel kind of bad for making GBS threads on Kemper's thread since he's not a grognards.txt poster, but :allears:.