HKR posted:

Yeah, those are definitely dark side actions, but they're stupid, lazily written dark side actions. Most of the points the guy makes are dumb or completely wrong, but his basic principle remains true.

FirstCongoWar posted:

Martial Controller: Samurai
Kill Bill vol 1; the fight-scene agains the Crazy 88.
That is what the martial controller should look like.

With the Ki power source presumed dead, the other power sources are now able to swoop in and snatch up all of its flavor.
Part of the problem with designing martial controllers was trying to figure out a distinctive flavor for it. With oriental sources to draw from now, we have that distinctive flavor.

The Samurai wields a daisho (a long sword in the main hand and a shorter sword in the off-hand) and spins around rapidly slicing dudes in half while yelling crazy warcries.

Maybe the Samurai could have a splash of defender as a secondary role. Perhaps with powers that mark, but with no 'Combat Challenge' analogous feature, so that the Samurai's marks are only a -2 penalty to attacks.

Ideas:

Quickdraw as a bonus feat.

A power that lets you tilt your blades to reflect light like mirrors, blinding enemies in the light.

An attack that lets you swing your swords with enough force that the air pressure is enough to damage enemies beyond your melee reach.

You yell 'Hiya!!!' and all the enemies are paralyzed with fear.

An attack that kicks up sand and dust as you swing your blades and blinds enemies.


What do you think?

IMJack posted:

1: If I ever hear another player say "I hit him" during melee combat I'm going to scream, take all of their karma, and shove it in a dark uncomfortable place. "Hit him" doesn't tell me anything. Be creative, for Gods sakes.

2: The same goes for "I shoot him".

3: Just once I'd like to hear a character running through the sewers say: "You, know what? I'm really getting tired of the smell of poo poo...."

5: It would be nice, just once, to meet a Street Samurai who has a collection of antiquated Buddy Holly 45s. (For you kids who have never seen a 45, they look kinda like CDs only they're black and a bit bigger and don't require the use of a laser in order to listen to them.)

9: A decker who is a master of computers, but still writes poetry on an antique typewriter, is destined to receive large amounts of roleplaying karma.

10: Same goes for a troll mercenary who likes to play an acoustic guitar.

11: Self imposed vulnerabilities are the most reliable way to make your character more human. Without such vulnerabilities your character is simply a living robot portraying the disposable qualities of such an entity.

13: If your character gets shot in the arm stop you should, for a split second, look at your own arm, visualize the bullet hole, visualize the blood, and imagine the pain before you decide to pull your own gun instead of ducking for cover.

14: When your shaman clutches his or her talisman while casting a spell think of the talisman's history, think for the energy flowing from it, think of why this energy is flowing, and make sure you understand how this power is manifesting in reality.

16: To a rigger his vehicle is as alive as he is. The two are one. For this reason a rigger's vehicle never gets damaged, it gets hurt.

18: The GM can come up for an excuse for everything. Never forget that.

20: Never act: EXPERIENCE.

Kemper Boyd posted:

How many ET video games do you see today, and what happened to those made for the Atari?

"4th edition D&D" is the "Atari 2600 ET" of the RPG world.

opaopa13 posted:

What the hell IS this? At first I thought it was your standard, "WotC cares about making money, ergo 4e sucks", but actually it looks like his argument is, "A word can't refer to two different things -- thus, now that 'D&D' refers to a franchise, it can no longer refer to a game." Is he really claiming you can't discuss D&D anymore? What?

Bieeardo posted:

It's a stupid gently caress-you monster. It always has been. Getting the full value of your kit back is simply analogous to taking an extended rest and recharging everything else.

brennon posted:

Sounds like the baby 4tard got his panties in a twist . Surprise, MMO child can't deal with actual combat where your gear is arbitrarily destroyed or levels drained. Don't be butthurt because 4e is literally a MMORPG with spawn points, not everyone can enjoy the depth of gameplay My Group routinely experiences. Continue your flailing though, I feed off of this.

Amish Ninja posted:

Ok, so I drug out the books today v1, 2, 3 and 3.5 and started looking what way to direct my new campaign. I then said ok, borrowed a set of 4 and was like hmmm. Then downloaded the beta char. builder from wizards. Ok, when the drat char sheet reads like a fricking manual, its too much work.

I'm going back to AD&D 1st, adding in Arduin rules and a few others I've picked up. I wan't a fast fun game not an accounting job!

Yes, the DC's in 3.5 are cool and make life fun but, add this, add that add this feat, this power etc etc etc. How about, did you roll high enough after pluses to hit an AC 5?

Amish Ninja posted:

The only way his post isn't completely retarded is if he was comparing 1st Edition to 4th.

RagnarokAngel posted:

http://mxyzplk.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/why-complain-about-4e-stop-the-edition-wars/

It's great because he opens up trying to look rational and impartial then basically gets paranoid and calls 4e hitler again.

Fuego Fish posted:

Holy. Christ. This literally reads like an MMO guide.

"DUDE YOU'RE A TANK SO TAKE THE HITS"

"DEFEND YOUR TEAMMATES BECAUSE THAT'S YOUR ROLE"

"TIEFLINGS MAKE BAD FIGHTERS BECAUSE THEY'RE SMART. ROLL DWARF OR DRAENEI FOR THE BEST STATS"

"YOU'RE A loving GUARDIAN, DO YOU HEAR ME? PLAY YOUR ROLE OR GET THE gently caress OUT"

"CARRY A JAVELIN BECAUSE YOU CAN'T USE A BOW LOL"

"MARK YOUR ENEMIES AND THEN HIT 'TAUNT'"

Bieeardo posted:

I wonder if he's referring to the codification of skill challenges. It's still a ridiculous claim, but I'm still looking for a basis to it somewhere.

Kemper Boyd posted:

DeclaredYuppie posted:

I don't even know if this is a parody anymore.

Drop the bomb, exterminate the brutes.

The General posted:

Fake edit: what of my unironic grognard beliefs?

The General posted:

Liking 3.x qualifies as grognard now? Jesus I'm old.

The General posted:

I'm not sure I want to bring children into this world of sissy gaming, don't get me started with this new age indi gaming poo poo either. Let's all work together to make a story! gently caress no. It's DM vs. Player, the smart and resourceful live to see their name level, the rest are forgotten like the idiots they were.

FirstCongoWar posted:

When preparing a spell (or preparing a spell slot, which spontaneous casters must do), you must take 1 hour per level of the spell. At the end, the DM makes a hidden DC 10*spell level check, where any D20 roll equal to or less than the level of the spell is an automatic failure. The skill for the check is Knowledge Nature for nature casters (Druids, Rangers, etc), Knowledge Religeon for divine casters (Clerics, Paladins, etc), and Spellcraft for arcane casters (Wizards, Bards, etc). When you try to cast the spell, if you've succeeded on the check it goes off normally. If you fail, the spell fails and you take a backlash effect, randomly chosen depending on the school of the spell you tried to cast (so failed necromancy spells do things like cause permanent wisdom decreases and negative energy damage, failed conjurations summon powerful things that attack you or teleport you into physical objects, etc). The save DC against backlash effects, if there's a save at all, is 5*spell level. Every time you cast a spell there's a chance of dying. As such, spellcasters are HEAVILY nerfed, and not expected to be played. When creating magic items, the spells required must be cast every day... so bad idea!

FirstCongoWar posted:

All players heal rapidly when out of sight and no one's after them (fast healing equal to your HD, only when I as the DM decide you're between encounters).

laldabaoth posted:

In oMage, my rogue Progenitor barrabi created a bioengineered virus templated off of rabies, that started by destroying the brain's capacity to experience joy or pleasure of any kind. Then it progressed by destroying the brain's capacity to regulate pain or misery. Finally, it slowed down the metabolism, retarding and then shutting down everything but the central nervous system.

Extremely virulent, airborne, with a week's incubation period and then a slow and incurable onset. By the end of it, the victim is curled up, sobbing and wretching, and utterly incapable of feeling anything but the most horrible feelings of self-loathing, desperation, panic, helplessness and raw anguish imaginable. And with your body rotting around you, the disease tweaks your metabolism sufficiently to keep your mind alive and conscious in that state for a good six to eight weeks (more if you have a healthy amount of fat reserves).

I arranged with some Pentex associates to slip dormant virus doses into all of GlaxoSmithKline's anti-depressant medications, so that the "first wave" of victims would be people with known bipolar and general depressive symptoms.

Then our Verbena barrabi worked in a bit of sympathetic Mind/Correspondence/Spirit magic to offer everyone infected a way out: if they were willing to invite in a Bane, then the virus couldn't kill them, and as long as they inflicted deliberate, sadistic torture on another being, every bit of anguish suffered by the other being would be lessened slightly from their own symptoms, based on the level of intimacy between you and your victim. Torturing a stranger might shave off an equivalent 1% of your own misery; torturing your co-worker might shave off 5%; torturing your own son or daughter might shave off as much as 50%.

And then we just sat back and let nature take its course.

Eggplant Ronin posted:

Same here. I have never had anyone pull anything really gross in any game I've either ran or played in. It's just strange how these people manage to find one another.

quote:

I am hard pressed to think of an example in recent literature where a beloved story series so richly woven with coherancy was abused so badly. In last night's conversation, my friend stated repeatedly how there could be no sense to it, and suggested these decisions were made without the best interests of the players in mind.

quote:

It was all a dream? Try a recurring nightmare. I'm not sure I'm going to be able to prevent myself from looking at the new Realms novels whenever I'm browsing for books in the fantasy section of the bookstore. Kinda like a toothache you keep poking even though it hurts and you know you shouldn't.

quote:

But no, instead they took a flamethrower to the place we know and love...this, more than -any- other reason (even more than it not feeling like real D&D anymore) is why I'm not interested in 4e. They ruined the place we loved, relieved themselves on the ashes, and poured them over our heads while laughing maniacally. I hope like hell WotC's market share burns as badly as they burned FR...I hope (even though I know it's fruitless) that by this time next year, WotC will no longer -have- a market share.

Etherwind posted:

Age isn't really a factor. I know plenty of older gamers who are perfectly nice people to hang out with and befriend.

Being a total grognard makes you a douche regardless of your age. These people are total grognards. It's one thing to say "I don't like this for x reasons," and another thing to post that stuff.

Kerison posted:

Christopher Perkins is in charge of the RPG department at WotC, iirc. (He's changed positions a few times over the years, but he's under Slavicsek and over the grunts.) He's quite likable in person.

Seftir posted:

This is it. Why can't the whiners just realize, ya know, that it's all bullshit and they can do whatever they want?

shotgunbadger posted:

Also what he did that's so evil is basically killed/banished the mary sue characters, actually advanced the world in a meaningful way, and left it open for players to finally be heroes without being overshadowed by NPCs.

This, of course, is horrible because

quote:

*Puts on sage hat*

In the days of the Crown Wars (and before), there were still multiple elven races. One of them was the Ilythiiri . These were the dark elves. They were native to the south and concentrated in two kingdoms. When we got through the 4th Crown War (IIRC), the mandate of Corellon and the High Magic of several elven races forced the Ilythiiri underground as retaliation for war crimes even more heinous than those of the sun elves of Aryvandaar (butchered that one too). In addition, the dark elves went from dusky skin to black. Old elven history. Now, there's one detail I neglected: not all drow became dark elves at the end of the Lady Penitent series. Only those drow that worshipped Eilistraee or were descended from the dark elven population of Miyeritar were transformed. The rest remain the black-skinned scheming evil that we all know and love. So all this time, the term "dark elf" has been used but is only correct based on a technicality.

*puts away sage hat*

quote:

There might be some precedent for the distinction in medieval Norse paganism, from which elves or álfar come. Snorri Sturluson, who wrote the Prose Edda in early 13th century Iceland (after it had become Christian) distinguished between ljósálfar (light elves) and dřkkálfar (dark elves). Earlier sources make reference to svartálfar, or black elves, with no apparent connection to Snorri's dřkkálfar, but with connection to the dvergar, or dwarves, which also come from Norse paganism. (Some of you will notice that not only does "dwarf" come from Old Norse "dvergar" but so does "duergar.") There is some suggestion that the dvergar were female fertility spirits, associated with Fejya, and that álfar were their male counterparts, associated with Frey. This isn't entirely clear, however, because some sources refer to dísir as female fertility spirits associated with Frejya instead. (Note that it's no coincidence that Tolkien named his one female dwarf "Dis.") In some sources the álfar appear to the the spirits of the dead, living in burial mounds (much like Tolkien's barrow wights, albeit not always viewed as evil).

The English word "drow" actually comes from Scottish, a softened version of the Scottish word "trow" (the word having experienced what linguists call consonantal shift--a shift form a hard consonant to a related softer consonant) which comes from the Old Norse word "troll." Although Gary Gygax (whose first posthumous birthday comes in 5 days) created a sharp distinction among dwarves, elves and trolls, the lines were much blurrier in Norse paganism.

shotgunbadger posted:

So then what you mean is we need to give the man a drat medal and make the release date of the FR Campaign Guide 'National Hug Chris Perkins Day'?

opaopa13 posted:

What the heck are you doing?? Don't you know that WotC has banned all knowledge of pre-4e sourcebooks? You'll get us all killed!

Kemper Boyd posted:

I think that RPGs reached their height before AD&D 1st Ed came out and have been spiraling deeper into the Well of Ultimate Suckitude ever since.

I think "more complete rules to avoid GM arbitrariness" is a code phrase for "lovely social skills".

I think the day D&D became aimed at 14 year olds instead of adult wargamers was the death of it.

shotgunbadger posted:

This really has nothing to do with grognards and is more of a reminder that racists suck I guess, so thanks?

RagnarokAngel posted:

"I go way back with dungeons and dragons"

Ah the classic line to justify anything you say about 4e no matter how retarded.

Edit: yikes. I'll never get the paranoia with being told what to do. The bit where he drones on about the tiers is bizzare. Grognards complain about how 4e fails to cover certain scenerios but then bitches about this? The book merely suggests a certain type of adventure at those levels you're not required...

Why does he keep using "The 8,000 Pound Gorilla sitting in the corner of the room"? Does he think he's clever for combining 2 phrases?

The skill challenges bit is good. "The game is MAKING me use these!"

He calls the game overcomplicated too? What the gently caress?

Edit: And a Pathfinder plug to finish it off? Perfect.

plarp posted:

The complaint that classes excel at different things is mind-boggling. When have fighters not been pigeonholed into hitting things, or rogues into sneaking around backstabbing people?

quote:

...if you play a wizard, your job now is no longer really to level the playing field with fireball after fireball; it's to command the playing field, to help your warriors out to do something, to help your thieves to sneak around to strike and run, to help your rangers shoot their arrows better. If you play a warrior, your job is to run in and hit things...That is, they said, "You know, the fighters get really hosed because the wizards have all these different opportunities and the fighter does, "I attack.""

brennon posted:

fail at math? nah i rolled 10 times i saved 9 times i am pretty sure thats correct math though, its typical online behavior.

LGD posted:

Ok, but that doesn't make it grognardy. We're talking about extremely nerdy hobbies here, demonstrating some system mastery hardly makes you a self-important and cheeto-stained mouthbreather. Well played druids with awful physical stats (except constitution after the wildshape errata) are just vastly better than even the most optimized of fighters. If this offends your sensibilities you should probably be complaining about the system, rather than the people who are willing to point this out.

(Also: Due to the animal companion, the Druid with godawful stats probably isn't even contributing that much less to the party in terms of melee fighting prowess for the first 5 levels.)

Joudas posted:

Ok, but that doesn't make it grognardy. We're talking about extremely nerdy hobbies here, demonstrating some system mastery hardly makes you a self-important and cheeto-stained mouthbreather. Well played druids with awful physical stats (except constitution after the wildshape errata) are just vastly better than even the most optimized of fighters. If this offends your sensibilities you should probably be complaining about the system, rather than the people who are willing to point this out.

(Also: Due to the animal companion, the Druid with godawful stats probably isn't even contributing that much less to the party in terms of melee fighting prowess for the first 5 levels.)


Edit: poo poo, beaten.

quote:

but the orginailty of D&D was it’s complexity sure there where thousands and rules and things to keep in mind but i read them manuals over and over again and i would only adopt what worked and kept the game flow but having so many options gave me alot inspiration to try out and revamp my own games and sure you can do that with the new editions but only buy praticing and learning them rules till they where embded in your head could a dm be a true god

Red_Mage posted:

So as a Hypothetical exercise, lets pretend we are the ones who are objectively wrong, using nothing but fallacies and shoddy house rules to support 4e. What exactly would they do to fix 4e. So far the only complaint I've seen that can be "fixed" is "I can't play my horrible combination of 17 classes." And WotC seems to be trying to help with that, what with the new Paragon Paths, Dual Classing, and Multiclass feat classes.

What more do they want that 4e can't give them?