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Lisey's Story and The Colorado Kid are the only Stephen King stories i couldn't finish. One of my favorites that isn't mentioned much here is The Long Walk. King is at his best when writing in people's heads, and that's what the majority of that relatively short novel is.
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Aug 3, 2011 16:46
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Ridonkulous posted:Just finished The Dark Tower Series. Why is it that anyone who has ever said "gently caress the haters" never really understands the dissenting opinion? The reason you liked it as opposed to the people that followed the books at the time they were written is the wait - tie in - speculation aspect of the series that you're missing by reading them in short order after the fact. So, for instance, we read Dark Tower 1-3, then got tie in books, then 4, then got like 4 or 5 tie - in books, then waited a long time and speculated based on the tie ins, then got 5 - 7 which literally said "all those tie ins and speculation that you've been working off of for over ten years are worthless, I changed my mind because I had to rush the ending because I'm scared of dying because I got hit by a truck." In between DT2 and 5, he did a huge amount of world building, tying in all of his novels together, building up a hierarchy of good vs. evil, hinting of an ultimate good vs. evil showdown of something that was even more powerful than his Eldrich galaxy eating horrors (IT) vs. the power of pure good/creation. For instance, the previous holder of the nexus of all worlds was said to be absolutely nothing as compared to Roland and his group in Black House. The Crimson King was said to be ridiculously multiversal evil, far outweighing allusions to Greek Gods/abstract beings, etc. He created this huge epic showdown... ...and then undid it because of the aforementioned reason by writing himself in the series and saying "Stephen King didn't know what he was writing about - ignore that stuff." On top of that, he undid several plot threads, etc. that were built up a great deal. They aren't horrible, but they're disliked by fans because he transparently undid tons of buildup and writing for personal issues/mood changes, which is universally considered to be lame. You're fortunate, because just reading them straight without all of the universe building he was doing around them, you're just reviewing them on their merits in a self contained series, which makes them better than if you're looking at the entire history and context around the series.
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Aug 9, 2011 19:07
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Farbtoner posted:How is this any different than people complaining about the Star Wars EU canon or that the latest Alien vs. Predator movie isn't nearly as good as the Dark Horse comics? I don't think it's fair to chastise people for taking a book series at face value whether than weighing it based on how it fits into the Stephen King Extended Universe. Because Stephen King wrote his extended universe. Black House and Insomnia and others were, and were billed as Dark Tower books that filled in part of the other stuff happening while Roland was on his quest while you waited for the next numbered book. Then he said, "whoops, didn't happen, Stephen King was wrong!" because he changed his mind because he got into an accident. EUs are generally not written by the original authors and can be overwritten at any time, which is why they're viewed as secondary canon. This isn't the case of that - he wrote books that were sold specifically as being side stories parallel to his Dark Tower story that built on the main story. Even still, if something comes out after a secondary canon story and is written worse, it's still a legitimate criticism to say it's not as good as that secondary story.
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Aug 9, 2011 22:00
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Ridonkulous posted:It is easy for you to arm chair quarterback, but I do not see any way to have ended it in a way that would make you people happy. I understand your complaints, but they are pretty much bullshit. Actually most fans don't have a problem with the ending; it's all aspects of the journey there. The biggest issue seems to be the self insertion, not just because he put himself in the book, but because of a combination of using himself as a deus ex machina AND undoing his prior world building in one swoop. The secondary thing is the lack of respect he showed the building he did to other characters like Flagg/Crimson King and rushing a bunch of deaths together at once. The ending itself, people mostly seem to like from my experience. But this combo of other stuff, combined with the buildup to, created the huge disappointment. The funny thing is that the comics and actual EU have kind of "fixed" a few things about those complaints and retroactively made them a bit better, by creating excuses for Mordred + Flagg and building the CK back up and such.
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Aug 9, 2011 22:12
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Ornamented Death posted:Weren't Black House and Hearts in Atlantis the only books published specifically as DT-tie-ins? I think everything else was kind of retroactive. Insomnia, definitely, since the bad guy was the CK, and the whole thing was about Patrick Danville. And of course, after DT3, all the stuff he wrote in stories to specifically reference or tie into the series.
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Aug 9, 2011 22:14
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The military didn't save the day. They had no effect at all outside of clean up.
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Aug 10, 2011 03:21
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Under the Dome was overall above average. The ending was weak, but it didn't override the rest of the novel to me. That and Duma Key are the only novels I've actually overall "liked" since his accident.
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Aug 17, 2011 14:47
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ZoDiAC_ posted:I wish he'd knock this off. I HATE when King does this above all other quirks. He telegraphs or outright states when someone is about to die with phrases like "and that's the last time she saw Character alive" and it wrecks all suspense. I hate that as well; I forgot what book I was reading where it drove me absolutely crazy as maybe a larger percentage of deaths were spelled out immediately.
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Sep 6, 2011 17:08
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Octy posted:Pet Sematary did it all the time. Gage's death in Pet Sematary really was written awesomely, even with the foreshadowing. I remember feeling really bad for the father when I read that in high school or whenever. The flashforward into what he COULD have been was really well done, I think. And yes, Mile 81 was absolutely terrible. Even the ending was ridiculous; what was spoiled above was correct in that it made little to no sense whatsoever.
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Sep 7, 2011 14:59
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Local Group Bus posted:If you're looking for the most boring King novel, give Rose Madder a try. At least the ones you mentioned made a certain kind of sense and the characters seemed free of plot positioning for the most part. I still like that better than Gerald's Game, and I read them back to back so it was a direct comparison.
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Sep 8, 2011 14:47
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Thats only relevant to the Dark Tower series, though.
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Sep 12, 2011 01:17
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Ridonkulous posted:It is purposeful by Stephen King and when he has a Mike Noonan have a conversation with Ralph Roberts it is okay to assume that Insomnia and Bag of Bones takes place int he same universe. What I was saying is that, what oldpainless was saying was that DT7 essentially saying "all the connections to the Dark Tower King wrote about are worthless because he didn't know what he was talking about" only had any relevance to those books' connection to the main Dark Tower series. As far as his shared universe interconnections with themselves - ie. people in Tommyknockers wandering over to Derry and seeing Pennywise and stuff, it really has no bearing on that.
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Sep 12, 2011 22:01
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ZoDiAC_ posted:What shall I re-read next for good old scary 70s/80s King? Just done with the Shining IT is his best "scary" book, in my opinion. I like the finale as well - I thought it was fitting and paced well. Just look out for one weird part of it.
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Sep 15, 2011 14:34
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ZoDiAC_ posted:
I didn't mind that - as it's something RELATIVELY common among kids (ie. every child group hears/knows about some kid that tried something like that from someone else) and didn't feel out of place, including Henry's overall reaction. Patrick was just weird anyway, so it worked. The other thing is not common at all, and is just more of a WTF moment.
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Sep 16, 2011 14:56
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I actually like Duma Key and I've hated his post-accident stuff, for the most part. I think that the prose/pacing just worked really well for me.
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Sep 19, 2011 15:32
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L-O-N posted:The time structure of It was one of the reasons I liked it so much in the first place. The back and forth seeing what led to certain actions and finding where It really was made it exciting. If the book had a straight timeline like the movie version, it wouldn't have been nearly as interesting. Same here. The climax (and much of the rest of the book) being a parallel back and forth actually kept it more interesting to me, and was one of the main reasons I liked it. It also helped with keeping IT's nature somewhat hidden until the end, which helped to keep the stakes right where they should be at all times. Because of the parallel timeline, the book kept ramping up towards its finale with the danger jumping more and more as the book went on.
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Sep 19, 2011 15:34
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Locus posted:I don't remember an explanation for it. What was it? I didn't mind the phrases in IT, so much as his newer books. For instance, his new Kindle short story has the kids talking in slang that I'm not sure any kid would use in any era, like a weird mix of 60s and 80s slang - I actually thought the books was supposed to be set in the 60's at first and he was forgetting some words weren't in use yet. Also, yeah, he tends to date his modern stuff more than his earlier stuff - he seems to be so enamored with certain bits of new technology that he includes them in his books immediately, by brand name, which dates certain things that don't really need to be dated.
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Sep 21, 2011 14:27
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I liked the first 3/4 of Under the Dome a bit; it has one of the most annoying villains and henchmen ever. I didn't like the end, but not enough for me to hate the book. I just ignore his dialogue from characters 40 and under and pretend they all time traveled from 1950.
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Sep 29, 2011 20:33
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Well Black House didn't really affect Talisman at all, and wasn't bad, so I'm not worried about a Shining sequel.
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Sep 30, 2011 13:25
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Logtar posted:Wow there's a lot of Stephen King hate in this thread. I'm going to have to say that Song of Susannah was a pretty awful book. It was slow even by King's standards, and the ending to the Dark Tower was a giant smack in the face for all the time I invested into the series. All of my stoner friends loved it though, they thought it was so deep and that Stephen King was like, some kinda genius, man. I wouldn't call it hate; this thread has basically turned into 'complain about everything you DON'T like about King,' which is generally just focusing on the negative. There's a lot I do like, but I am in here to bitch and nitpick.
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Oct 1, 2011 17:33
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Edwardian posted:I didn't care for Song of Susannah, but I did enjoy the rest of the Dark Tower series. I may be in the minority that really enjoyed Wolves of the Calla. Most people like the ending itself, it's just the last leg of the journey that's the problem.
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Oct 3, 2011 14:26
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Nobody likes Fran. That Nick thing is weird; if you don't like flaws in characters or shades of moral grey, than that's not the type of book you'd like to read. And the "underage girl" was so annoying that him hitting her in a post apocalyptic wasteland seemed pretty understandable.
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Oct 6, 2011 14:29
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jfjnpxmy posted:I agree that Frannie is godawfully unpleasant, though. And the whole Harold Lauder thing never really struck me as ringing true. Like, if you're faking being a decent dude to the extent that a sizeable percentage of the world's remaining population want you to be a government person and everyone loves you and calls you Hawk, then you'd end up being that kind of person. IN MY HUMBLE OPINION. Well a guy here hasn't gotten that far yet, so I'll spoil this, but from what I remember, Harold did kind of become a nice person, but Flagg working through...who was it...Nadine influenced him enough to do his ridiculous bomb thing. Allowed to do his own thing, he really would have been okay.
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Oct 10, 2011 15:47
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Mad Hamish posted:On the commala thing in 'Wolves of the Calla' - if you know anything about folk music and folk dance you will realize that planting crops and getting laid are always entwined in the least subtle single-entendre ever. Different mediums. That kind of ending works well in the short story, but I felt the movie's worked for the movie. Darabont did it because he didn't want any cheap sequels continuing the story at all, so he completely closed off those characters' arc.
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Oct 13, 2011 16:23
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That said, The Green Mile is so close to the movie that it's almost redundant. One of the few almost 1-1 translations of his stuff.
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Oct 17, 2011 14:29
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juliuspringle posted:I've never read the book version of Cujo so I don't know how it compares to the movie, but did anyone else find the movie boring as hell? I thought it was ok, but I saw it 12 years ago or so. It's a movie about two people trapped in a car; I expected something somewhat slow and claustrophobic.
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Oct 19, 2011 16:34
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I hated the premise when I heard it, but I'm 10% or so through the book thanks to you guys' recommendations, and it's flowing really, really well. Maybe he took a sniff of coke again before writing this or something because it reminds me of his old voice.
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Nov 10, 2011 20:14
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I feel like such a fanboy, but, 20% or so through, I have to admit that I smiled when we returned to some of the IT kids. I got happy as soon as I found out 50s Derry was a big part of the story, and am glad I wasn't spoiled.
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Nov 11, 2011 16:42
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DeseretRain posted:So I haven't read 11/22/63 yet. For all you guys who like it, can you tell me what your favorite and least favorite SK novels are? I just want some comparison, to see if your taste is the same as mine. Because I've been wary of 11/22/63 because the premise just doesn't sound interesting at all to me. It seems like Baby Boomers are really obsessed with the JFK assassination and it's just not something I care about at all. I've read every single published SK book besides Black House and that factual book about baseball, so whatever book you want to give me for comparison, I'll know what you're talking about. I like IT/Long Walk/The Stand/the second story from Hearts in Atlantis/The Mist/Talisman and his more random short stories like the falling frogs/Dark Tower 3 and 4 I hate Lisey's Story/Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon/Rose Madder/Story about the woman chained to the bed I also hate Kennedy related stuff because I generally don't care.
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Dec 2, 2011 20:04
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Local Group Bus posted:I doubt we will see an IT sequel. The whole Derry problem that IT addresses is that the town has undercurrents of something bad about it and the losers fought against IT in both time periods, the second one basically tearing down the towns historical monuments and other assorted things but in Insomnia Ralph mentions something about Derry having a darker side to it. One of the cast from Tommyknockers sees/hears/something IT in it when they go to Derry. Tommyknockers takes place after IT.
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Dec 6, 2011 20:14
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The Langoliers look so utterly stupid in the TV movie, and Balki is so over the top, that it's a fun watch, even if it's not good by any means.
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Jan 9, 2012 17:00
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We kind of talked about Desperation/The Regulators in the Bachman thread.
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Jan 19, 2012 22:50
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I am OK posted:The scene that really isn't that big of a deal in relation to King's body of work but this thread would have you believe made everybody vomit then throw their book down in disgust. Thematically it sort of makes sense although it's a pretty woeful idea and is written poorly. But the way people go on about it... I just realized, the reason why that section has probably never bothered me is because I read that book at 13 or so for the first time.
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Jan 23, 2012 15:50
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Yeah, they gradually get memories back as they returned to Derry, although they get practically all in the meeting with Mike, from what I recall. Outside of Stan, who apparently got it all immediately and killed himself.
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Jan 23, 2012 23:08
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Ozmaugh posted:Tom was great, but Nick was written poorly in the screenplay so it's not even a question of wasting Rob Lowe's talents. Flagg was awesome in the mini-series. When I first saw it, I was like "what the hell, that's nothing like I imagined him!" but in retrospect, a jean jacket wearing jolly dude is perfect for him.
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Jan 26, 2012 15:33
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I like Ralph a lot, too.
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oldpainless posted:Its been a while since I read The Stand, but I thought Flagg was explicitly described as a jeans-n-jacket kind of guy? He was, but my (and a lot of other people's) imagination took over and turned him into a kind of Christopher Walken The Prophecy type of guy as opposed to the jolly jean jacket guy by default, for whatever reason.
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Jan 27, 2012 15:43
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Victorkm posted:Oh my god. Listening to IT on audiobook because I never finished reading it. Foreshadowing the opening death is fine. The opening scene being devoted to a character dying is a horror movie convention that existed ever since Halloween, so it's fine to telegraph that. Major characters midway through the story, and huge plot points, though. That's just annoying, and I have no idea why he even does this.
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Feb 1, 2012 16:36
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Jealous Cow posted:I hated this so much you have no idea Beep beep is great because it's actually more memorable when IT turns it back around on Richie. It was an annoying friendship catchphrase that everyone remembers coming from the villain instead of the friends. Part of this is Tim Curry's delivery/the way the scene was directed, but it was still built up/timed well in the novel.
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Feb 2, 2012 06:02
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Going back in time would give you a lot more confidence, and, situation-wise, it was kind of hard for him to really fail at anything when it came to people-relationships, which also probably gave him more general confidence. If you go back in time, you're the wisest man in the world because of your additional perspective, so that would help with a lot of interpersonal relationships.
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Feb 6, 2012 16:55
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A lot of the issues of the pranks are resolved at the end, I believe, when you see how Gaunt is able to procure the exact things people wants. I think that's at the end, at least.
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Feb 8, 2012 16:42
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