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GoGoGadgetChris
Mar 18, 2010


Bad Dog

I think the plan right now is buy to stop the bleeding

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Inner Light
Jan 2, 2020





SchnorkIes posted:

I lost a lot of money during the pandemic due to emergency expenses and don't have the cash to cover the DD and appraisal gap and straight up baksheesh on top of a down payment. Afaik these days I'd need easily 200k cash to buy something that lists at 500k and I'm just nowhere close. I think the plan right now is buy a townhouse to stop the bleeding, but they aren't seeing the same appreciation.

Yeah I mean I can't afford a detached house where I am unless I lived in Suburbia, and wanted to own property, so I pulled the trigger on a condo. Might work for you. But like you said appreciation won't make you set for retirement alone.

vs Dinosaurs
Mar 14, 2009


You will never know what the market is going to do in the future, so buy a house if you want a homeowner lifestyle and are comfortable with where the mortgage puts you. This is how I justified contracting $70K over a house in this batshit market.

poll plane variant
Jan 12, 2021

evolution in action

Inner Light posted:

Yeah I mean I can't afford a detached house where I am unless I lived in Suburbia, and wanted to own property, so I pulled the trigger on a condo. Might work for you. But like you said appreciation won't make you set for retirement alone.

I think with a townhouse under my belt I could plow hundreds of thousands into reits or properties in a market where I'm closer to the ground floor. I also think I lost perspective on network/family bc I haven't seen anyone but my wife and coworkers since like September 2019 (got off a long assignment at the start of the pandemic and have been living in continuous crisis mode ever since)

It feels like everywhere is just interchangeable, no human interaction and a lovely view of the inside of blinds

I guess if the reits perform well I could use them to fund a later home purchase?

poll plane variant fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Apr 12, 2021

GEMorris
Aug 28, 2002

Glory To the Order!


Dik Hz posted:

I'm dying to hear your list of real cities, given that list of complaints.

I mean the obvious ones like NYC, Chicago, Seattle, Portland, Boston. All of them are places I could have easily moved to given my career but haven't because Raleigh used to be a good value prop and was relatively sleepy and uncrowded. Its since become far more expensive and crowded while the cultural and natural amenities haven't budged much at all.

laxbro posted:

Grass is always greener, etc. I live a few miles outside of DC and I think Raleigh is an awesome city (my wife grew up there). I would love to raise my family there - which is what I'm guessing so many other people like about it. If my job wasn't so specific to the Federal government I would move to Raleigh in a heartbeat. It's definitely on the sleepier side of things but I think that is the allure for lots of people.

My wife grew up in Woodbridge and I would *never* move to DC, that place is my kryptonite.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science



GEMorris posted:

I mean the obvious ones like NYC, Chicago, Seattle, Portland, Boston. All of them are places I could have easily moved to given my career but haven't because Raleigh used to be a good value prop and was relatively sleepy and uncrowded. Its since become far more expensive and crowded while the cultural and natural amenities haven't budged much at all.
Dude, complaining that Raleigh doesn't have geographic features and then pointing to Chicago and New York is a bit weird. I'll concede that Lake Michigan and the Hudson River are, in fact, defining geographic features. But I've never heard of them being referred to as a positive before.

Likewise complaining about "Any kind of restaurant or store culture that isn't just banal chalkboard instagram facimilies from every other place." and then pointing to Portland is

There are myriad reasons why you might not like Raleigh. But calling it "not a real city" is some weird gatekeeping way of confusing your personal preferences for universal truths.

GoGoGadgetChris
Mar 18, 2010


Bad Dog

I'll have you know Portland has traded in its chalkboards for plywood

jaffyjaffy
Sep 27, 2010


GEMorris posted:

I would *never* move to DC, that place is my kryptonite.

Hard agree. I only needed to drive there once to know that.

poll plane variant
Jan 12, 2021

evolution in action

Dik Hz posted:

There are myriad reasons why you might not like Raleigh. But calling it "not a real city" is some weird gatekeeping way of confusing your personal preferences for universal truths.

A real city is somewhere you don't need a car imo

Residency Evil
Jul 28, 2003

4/5 godo... Schumi


I remember reading somewhere that DC had the worst ratio of [time it takes to get somewhere in rush hour] / [time it takes to get somewhere with no traffic] in the country. I still have PTSD from having to drive the entirety of the beltway at 4pm on a Friday.

Although Georgetown has some gorgeous houses.

Vasudus
May 30, 2003


My house is 50 feet from two major bus lines, both of which will take me to every place I'll be possibly working for the next 20 years within 10-15 minutes door-to-door. Otherwise I just ride it a bit further to the metro.

The real killer is transitioning between VA/DC/MD. It's...tolerable if you stay inside one region. But if you have to traverse that distance rip your free time.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





SchnorkIes posted:

A real city is somewhere you don't need a car imo

I mean, you can live in the sunset/richmond district of San Francisco and you still need a car to get to the grocery store in a lot of cases, it depends on the neighborhood.

I lived in a semi historical neighborhood in east Dallas and it was walkable but I think most people would die of heat exhaustion if they tried to walk to the grocery store with more than one bag of groceries

Getting on a bus/train with two bags of groceries and a toddler is not a sustainable solution, it's barely treading water

Hutla
Jun 5, 2004

It's mechanical

A house is a place to live in, not some external arbiter of whether you're succeeding in life. All I see is you complaining that you had a bunch of assets, an emergency happened, and you had to use them. Now you can't use those assets for something else or go back in time and use them to buy a house which would have tied them all up and possibly forced you to sell when this emergency happened. It sounds like your assets did what they were supposed to do and saved you in an emergency.

Look, this year sucked for literally everyone. Everyone is sick of their own place, everyone is lonely, everyone feels isolated and is going crazy like they're in Rear Window. I haven't seen anyone in my own family in 16 months and have had a total of 4 vacation days since 2019. Owning a house is not a cure for any of those things. If this year has tipped you over into disordered anxiety, you are not alone. A teledoc therapist is better than no help at all. You can save up a new down payment, you can buy a smaller place than you had envisioned, and you can give yourself credit for surviving what could have been disaster.

laxbro
Apr 20, 2013
Relax.

Residency Evil posted:

I remember reading somewhere that DC had the worst ratio of [time it takes to get somewhere in rush hour] / [time it takes to get somewhere with no traffic] in the country.

Yes it can take an insane amount of time to drive from Arlington (or any other inner suburb) to DC. The worst part about VA -> DC is that it is bottle necked by bridges over the river. But the metro and bike trails are super convenient so only fools drive in.

edit: Misread post.

laxbro fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Apr 12, 2021

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.


GEMorris posted:

I mean the obvious ones like NYC, Chicago, Seattle, Portland, Boston. All of them are places I could have easily moved to given my career but haven't because Raleigh used to be a good value prop and was relatively sleepy and uncrowded. Its since become far more expensive and crowded while the cultural and natural amenities haven't budged much at all.

I mean, you know there are cities, and then there are Cities, right? Raleigh is not in the same league as those places. Very few cities are, it's not really a fair comparison to say that Raleigh's amenities aren't equal.

You're probably looking for more of a "fly-over state" type of big city for a better comparison. And not gonna lie, even then it doesn't really stand out in comparison, but IMO it's not as bad as you seem to want to be.

poll plane variant
Jan 12, 2021

evolution in action

DaveSauce posted:

And not gonna lie, even then it doesn't really stand out in comparison, but IMO it's not as bad as you seem to want to be.

It's just not worth living in an empty house eating ramen on the floor to live there, whereas anywhere on the west coast that's like something people beg for the chance to do

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.


SchnorkIes posted:

It's just not worth living in an empty house eating ramen on the floor to live there, whereas anywhere on the west coast that's like something people beg for the chance to do

I guess if you're hellbent on "city living" proper, then you're not wrong. But at the same time, that's really never been the case anywhere I've lived. Maybe Raleigh used to be like that, I dunno, but if it was then it was only a matter of time until it caught up. If you're looking for a single family house IN the city, there are probably only a handful of places where that's really do-able on the sort of budget you're asking.

Everywhere else, it's suburbs or bust.

GEMorris
Aug 28, 2002

Glory To the Order!


DaveSauce posted:

I mean, you know there are cities, and then there are Cities, right? Raleigh is not in the same league as those places. Very few cities are, it's not really a fair comparison to say that Raleigh's amenities aren't equal.

You're probably looking for more of a "fly-over state" type of big city for a better comparison. And not gonna lie, even then it doesn't really stand out in comparison, but IMO it's not as bad as you seem to want to be.

I've been pretty clear that Raleigh is a "value proposition" town and always has been. What stands out to me is how much worse that value-proposition has gotten as I've lived here. Costs go up but nothing is really added in return other than increased competition for the same scarce resources.

From 2000 til the mid teens this place really did seem worth it when I looked at the tradeoffs, now? Not nearly as much.

poll plane variant
Jan 12, 2021

evolution in action

GEMorris posted:

I've been pretty clear that Raleigh is a "value proposition" town and always has been. What stands out to me is how much worse that value-proposition has gotten as I've lived here. Costs go up but nothing is really added in return other than increased competition for the same scarce resources.

They've added some restaurants and bars but I feel like the investment in city type amenities has been really lacking. Needs a LOT of money in transit, parks, outdoor rec, etc beyond more road widening and kids sports megaplexes

Edit: and "leaving the house" and "seeing people" are off the table for the foreseeable lol, except to go to work in the covid mines

poll plane variant fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Apr 12, 2021

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.




The older I get, the less city living becomes worthwhile for me. I have a car, I donít go out clubbing or partying, and I donít need to be around people all the time. Still, I kinda want to at least take advantage of the city to meet people, but boy am I a fuckin shutin so maybe ~5 years into city life without much of a social network means I should just move on.

GEMorris
Aug 28, 2002

Glory To the Order!


SchnorkIes posted:

They've added some restaurants and bars but I feel like the investment in city type amenities has been really lacking. Needs a LOT of money in transit, parks, outdoor rec, etc beyond more road widening and kids sports megaplexes

Edit: and "leaving the house" and "seeing people" are off the table for the foreseeable lol, except to go to work in the covid mines

The last major thing Raleigh added was Red Hat Amphitheater, which is still only a temporary facility, as it will be demolished if/when they build the other half of the convention center.

Inner Light
Jan 2, 2020





Pollyanna posted:

The older I get, the less city living becomes worthwhile for me. I have a car, I donít go out clubbing or partying, and I donít need to be around people all the time. Still, I kinda want to at least take advantage of the city to meet people, but boy am I a fuckin shutin so maybe ~5 years into city life without much of a social network means I should just move on.

I have this thought too. Not to get E/N but I am a single dude, I think if I moved into suburbia or rural America instead of a city I would have fewer chances to meet people my age including potential significant others. That was a major reason for me continuing to stay in a city. It was without a doubt a very expensive decision.

That's assuming remote work is an option in your work life.

vs Dinosaurs
Mar 14, 2009


Inspection came back and it was positive overall, the main issue is water damage on some shingles, and lack of trim underneath a sliding door. Getting a bid to fix the subfloor rotting in that section and hope to get a credit from the sellers.

My Shark Waifuu
Dec 9, 2012





I'm curious: here in Auckland where the market is stupid hot, a lot of houses are sold by auction, but it seems like auctions aren't so popular in the US. Is there a reason for that?

I mean, as a buyer auctions suck (we avoided them when we were buying), but as a seller there's a lot of advantages (no contingencies, bidding wars).

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





A lot of houses in my market go for auction, but it's informal so that the seller's agent can manipulate it (and the buyers emotions) to the maximum extent without breaking any rules and getting the absolute maximum price

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008



Man this thread is stoking some anxiety now. Am I FOMOing into the market at the worst possible time? Why not rent longer while rent is so low?

Augh

Johnny Truant
Jul 22, 2008





Dik Hz posted:

But I've never heard of them being referred to as a positive before.

For real? Lake Michigan is a huge positive in Chicago, the lakefront is fuckin awesome!

poll plane variant
Jan 12, 2021

evolution in action

Vox Nihili posted:

Man this thread is stoking some anxiety now. Am I FOMOing into the market at the worst possible time? Why not rent longer while rent is so low?

Augh

I don't see any reason this market would ever change, this isn't a heavily leveraged retail bubble, this is people who profited handsomely from covid (white collar workers who are now full time remote, big institutional buyers, etc) putting their money into a "too big to fail" asset which cannot go down bc it's a subsidized de facto national retirement program.

Inner Light
Jan 2, 2020





Vox Nihili posted:

Man this thread is stoking some anxiety now. Am I FOMOing into the market at the worst possible time? Why not rent longer while rent is so low?

Augh

Went back and forth through the same anguish approximately one million times, before deciding to pull the trigger. Just like equities, the best time to buy is probably yesterday, unless it's gonna crash, but who knows that so just yolo.

That's assuming the generic buy vs rent calculators give you the green light and come up approx equal for a certain time period, for me that rough time period was 5 or more years.

poll plane variant
Jan 12, 2021

evolution in action

Like wages cannot, for structural reasons, be allowed to increase meaningfully, so as we get later into our careers, wages will be essentially meaningless vs. investment income all the way down to the average joe

Vasudus
May 30, 2003


I bought my house because I'm tired of renting. I want to put holes in my wall, I want hardwood floors, I want a better kitchen, and I don't want people above and below me any longer.

I'm also buying because it's for me, to live in, hopefully until I loving die.

poll plane variant
Jan 12, 2021

evolution in action

Vasudus posted:

I bought my house because I'm tired of renting. I want to put holes in my wall, I want hardwood floors, I want a better kitchen, and I don't want people above and below me any longer.

I'm also buying because it's for me, to live in, hopefully until I loving die.

It's a store of value for you to live in until you need to sell it to cover the cost of dying/nursing care/etc anyway

Edit: the price of which tracks with real estate and not wages

gwrtheyrn
Oct 21, 2010

AYYYE DEEEEE DUBBALYOO DA-NYAAAAAH!


Baneling Butts posted:

I'm curious: here in Auckland where the market is stupid hot, a lot of houses are sold by auction, but it seems like auctions aren't so popular in the US. Is there a reason for that?

I mean, as a buyer auctions suck (we avoided them when we were buying), but as a seller there's a lot of advantages (no contingencies, bidding wars).

In hot enough markets, it effectively becomes an auction except it's a semi-blind auction where the selling agent shops the highest bid around until nobody wants to go higher. Like my agent has told me multiple times that it's uncommon for the sellers to come back to you during offer review to see if you want to beat their highest offer, but it's happened actually every time and I'm pretty sure that's just bullshit.

ho fan
Oct 6, 2014



im forging on ahead buying in my quite hot but not yet insane market. Iím currently at the trying to find a good buyerís agent stage. Any red flags I should look out for/questions to ask?

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008



Man I could get a really nice, brand new, upgraded upper unit 3-bedroom condo with a private garage located right on top of actual transit for the same price as a really, really lovely 60 year-old detached house with the shittiest looking kitchen imaginable in the same general area.

But then I might miss out on some of that precious, precious appreciation!

Scarodactyl
Oct 22, 2015




We have a lot of parks and nature trails in north raleigh, it's been nice over the past year to actually use them.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





ho fan posted:

im forging on ahead buying in my quite hot but not yet insane market. I’m currently at the trying to find a good buyer’s agent stage. Any red flags I should look out for/questions to ask?

We found our agent by going to many open houses and findings
a listing agent who wasn't a complete dolt. The listing was about one standard deviation above our budget. She was doing about 100 deals a year and was able to do a lot of clever things a new agent would not have

So see what agency they work for, how long they've been in the market, and how many deals they've done in the last five years. If they're not averaging a deal a month over five years I'd probably pass on them

El Mero Mero
Oct 13, 2001



Vox Nihili posted:

Man I could get a really nice, brand new, upgraded upper unit 3-bedroom condo with a private garage located right on top of actual transit for the same price as a really, really lovely 60 year-old detached house with the shittiest looking kitchen imaginable in the same general area.

But then I might miss out on some of that precious, precious appreciation!

Seriously there are some amazing condos out there that are 100000x better than the teardown sfh stuff that sells for 2x the price.

vs Dinosaurs
Mar 14, 2009


Yeah, but you canít BBQ in your condo backyard with all your buddies in true American form.

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laxbro
Apr 20, 2013
Relax.

El Mero Mero posted:

Seriously there are some amazing condos out there that are 100000x better than the teardown sfh stuff that sells for 2x the price.

I would buy the hell out of a nice condo with concrete walls. I've lived in too many apartments with paper thin walls where you could hear your neighbor sneeze.

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