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daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari
An interesting article anyone who is considering buying a home should read.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/23/business/economy/23glut.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

quote:

EL MIRAGE, Ariz. — The nation’s biggest banks and mortgage lenders have steadily amassed real estate empires, acquiring a glut of foreclosed homes that threatens to deepen the housing slump and create a further drag on the economic recovery.

All told, they own more than 872,000 homes as a result of the groundswell in foreclosures, almost twice as many as when the financial crisis began in 2007, according to RealtyTrac, a real estate data provider. In addition, they are in the process of foreclosing on an additional one million homes and are poised to take possession of several million more in the years ahead.

Five years after the housing market started teetering, economists now worry that the rise in lender-owned homes could create another vicious circle, in which the growing inventory of distressed property further depresses home values and leads to even more distressed sales. With the spring home-selling season under way, real estate prices have been declining across the country in recent months.

“It remains a heavy weight on the banking system,” said Mark Zandi, the chief economist of Moody’s Analytics. “Housing prices are falling, and they are going to fall some more."


I'm not saying don't buy. If you do buy a house, you probably will probably owe more than it's worth for a long time. One guy I work with just wrote a check for $9,000 to sell his house after owning it for 3 years.

It's a tough market, and the 'oversupply' of houses may continue to push prices down.

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daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

Anti-Hero posted:

How many of you guys pay your mortgages throughout the month rather than one big check at the beginning? I was thinking of enrolling in that just to avoid potential cash flow issues.

This is a sign that you are living paycheck to paycheck and can't afford on the margin for a mortgage.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

Bastard Tetris posted:

What do you guys keep your "crap my house broke" emergency funds in anyways? I've been using an MMA and want to kick myself in the dick every time I get 6 bucks in interest every month from my lovely bank that is just buying T-bills at 0% with it anyways.

MMA. I don't want to kick myself more when the market crashes, I lose my job, and half my emergency fund is gone.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari
Folks need to be real careful with ARMs. There are many people who bought a house with no intention to live in it past 5 years. The value of their properties dropped to the point where they owe more than it's worth, and cannot refinance.

When rates go up, housing prices will go down even more and they will be stuck.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari
Saw this on the NYT in an editorial. I really don't see how housing prices are going to recover anytime soon.


quote:

38 percent of homeowners with second mortgages are underwater. They borrowed against the value of their homes, and they now owe more than their houses are worth. The total number of underwater homeowners in America, with first and second mortgages, is a stunning 22.7 percent. In Nevada alone, 63 percent of all mortgaged properties are worth less than the owners paid; in Arizona 50 percent, Florida 46 percent, Michigan 36 percent and California 31 percent.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari
So you did the inspection before you bought the house, the inspector told you about the bad wiring, and you bought the house anyway?

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

TraderStav posted:

The SEV/taxable value is typically 1/2 the actual value. So you double it to get their idea of the market value of your home.

Not where I live.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

TraderStav posted:

I may have been mentally replacing assessment with appraised... I assumed that was a report from his Appraiser.

I absolutely agree that a tax assessment holds ZERO weight in these matters...

What would likely happen if the appraisal came back, the seller would refuse to sell at that price and relist.

My friend from college, who is an excellent Realter, says that Tax Assessment plays an important psychological factor for a buyer in a down market: Agents and Buyers tend to shun houses listed for more than their Tax Assessment.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

TraderStav posted:

That's interesting, when I was shopping, the only thing I cared about that number for was my tax obligation. I operate under the assumption that they know gently caress-all in relation to true market value.

Think of it as an easy way to filter out Listings that are overpriced in a down market. When looking at a block of listings in a given price range, it's easy to toss out the one where the asking price is 180k and the tax assessment is 120k.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

IratelyBlank posted:

How much, generally, do repairs and upgrades add to the value of a home? Repairs being things like new ACs, new plumbing, walls, flooring, landscaping, fencing, etc. I bought my quad for around $190,000 and had a $40,000 loan on top of that in order to make repairs, but all told I probably spent closer to $70,000 on repairs including cash out of my pocket.

In order to get rid of my PMI, I assume I need to pay my loan down to 80% of the $190,000($152,000) rather than the $230,000 total? If I were to reappraise, I seriously doubt that my upgrades would add $100k+ in value to the building, but it would be nice to know where I stand.

I'm not losing a ton of money or anything, even at 75% occupancy I am at a mostly positive cash flow, but I have had big maintenance costs come up. I had to replace 4 ACs this year so I don't anticipate having to do that for many more years, but I am sure other things will come up.

I don't think there is a fixed ratio. You can completely repair a shack on the ocean in Maine and it's not going to do anything to the value of your shack. It was worth a million before, and it's still worth a million because of it's location.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari
Flood Insurance is only provide by the Government via The National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP).

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

Shipon posted:

Yes, they were lying.

We can't tell you not to do it since he's family and that's usually why people cosign. Frankly though, if you want to pay him back, you should just give him an outright gift of cash instead of risking your own credit. Either that, or more logically, talk him out of purchasing. If he can't even qualify for the mortgage payments on his income, how's he going to take care of property taxes? Maintenance? Utilities?

You can't get around it: He can't get a bank loan because he can't afford it. I would stick with the "I can't cosign because I won't be able to buy my own house"

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

Molybdenum posted:

We found a nice, well maintained house built in 1910. Asking price was 160, we offered 125 and they accepted. Had our inspections done and because of the presence of knob and tube wiring, State Farm won't insure the house. We're looking at insuring it through the current insurer of the house but we're worried they may have been grandfathered in (owned by the same family since the 1950s). we already asked the sellers to replace the KnT in the basement and attic, but replacing all of it might be a stretch, since the lathe/plaster would probably need repairs/replacement as well.

If it still has knob and tube, then by definition it's not well maintained. You are looking at a money pit.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari
Applied for a 15 year refinance at 3.125% 10 days ago, then I went on vacation. I come back, and everything is approved and the appraisal is done. Only sad part is that I see some 15 year rates at 3%, but I'm only borrowing 110k so it's probably not worth it to look around more.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

gtkor posted:

honestly the difference between 3.125 and 3 percent when you factor in shopping and closing costs over 15 years is probably not going to be enough to really worry about.

I honestly feel like people make a ton of silly decisions in the best interest rate market that we have ever had. You should literally be trying to bite someones hand off for 3.125, it is still an amazing mortgage.

Yes, you are right.

In the end, my scheduled payment will be $1250 a month, taxes and insurance included. If anyone who tells you New Hampshire doesn't have taxes, $470 of my 1250 is Property taxes alone.

Still, the monthly payments are less then my son pays for rent on a townhouse.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

uwaeve posted:

The house we have a signed offer to purchase for needs a roof within a year or two and the basement is radioactive.

Radon sucks.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

Lord Of Texas posted:


-----------------------------
If we complete the sale, we've been weighing a 15-year mortgage vs 30-year mortgage (while paying it as if it was a 15-year). The interest rate savings on a 15-year mortgage is obviously nice, but we're thinking the ability to "lay off the gas" on a 30-year would be nice if one of us became unemployed for an extended period of time, expensive medical bills, etc. The PITI on a 15-year (or paying a 30 like a 15) would be around 16-18% of our monthly income depending on how insurance shakes out. Anyone have any advice on which route to take?


What are the two interest rates that you are comparing?

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

Lord Of Texas posted:

3.75% for 30 years, 3.15% for 15 years. Haven't been quoted an official rate yet, but searching bankrate.com those seemed like good estimates. Our credit was pulled 3-4 months ago when we got our pre-approval, and it was excellent (I believe mine was 760 and hers was 810).

We'll re-do the math once we get official quotes of course.

Half a percentage point is probably worth it to do the 15, but that's only a decision you can make based on your personal circumstances.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

sheri posted:

What? Seriously? We use 300-400 kwh a month. How can you use that much?

I'm getting on grow light for :catdrugs:

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari
I closed on my 3.125 15 year refinance yesterday. The total interest over the life of the loan is only 28,000~. I'm almost thinking that it's not worth paying more than the minimum at these low rates.

766 is the payment for 15 years. If I pay 1068 I pay pay if off in 10, but I only save 10,000 in interest. It's almost a case where paying if off early isn't as huge as it could be.

daslog fucked around with this message at 11:56 on Aug 15, 2012

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

greasyhands posted:

At 3.125%, assuming 2% inflation and the mortgage interest write-off coming off the 35% bracket, you are effectively paying 0% interest. There is no financial reason to pay extra on a mortgage in the 3% range. Just wanting a paid off house is understandable though and an ok thing to do if that's what you want. I pay $200 extra towards my 3.3% 15yr just because.


I don't get the write off because it's such a small amount of interest that the standard deduction wins.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari
My opinion is that you should go for the 15 year mortgage.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

Konrad posted:

Thank you for the input.

At this point I think we're strongly leaning toward the 15 year, mostly because we have no plans to move. Any concerns about the slightly higher payments mostly stem from my wife not qualifying for paid maternity leave, but that's a fairly short term situation that we can compensate for with a few sacrifices.

We first considered refinancing about a year ago. Before that it was a matter of low equity and a couple foreclosures in the area possibly affecting our property value. We just recently inherited some money that we can use for refinancing, so that helps as well.

If you need to convince your wife, it's as simple as saying "The difference between the two payments is 190 bucks a month. If that small an amount breaks us then we would have been screwed regardless."

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari
Why would you want to pay your mortgage via western union?

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

Spamtron7000 posted:

Sometimes I pay a fee to make an online payment with USBank. Probably what that is (?)

My guess was going to be that you had the mortgage company setup an automatic withdrawal from your checking account and they are charging you a convenience fee for the service.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

KGBAgent185 posted:

So my wife and I are stuck in our condo and want to find a way to move on. We're underwater and are looking for advice on how best to proceed. We bought this place back in 2007, just before the crash by like 3 months.

For some specifics:
Our original principle balance was 186k.
Original price was 196k.
Our interest rate is a ridiculous 7%.
Estimated value of our place at this point is only about 130k.

We have never missed a payment or been late. We are also backed by Freddie Mac.

We looked into harp 2.o with bank of America, twice, and was denied without reason (when pressed the rep just said that the computer says it was denied without a reason). With a month of that, our servicer rights were sold off to a debt collector (Ocwen). Every other bank we have attempted to use harp to refinance has said that they are only supporting the loans they already service.

We're in good shape financially I guess as we make approx 90k a year, and I have an 804 rating, my wife has 746, but that is due to the fact that more stuff is in my name.

Ever since we were sold to this debt collector that apparently cannot refinance through harp since they aren't a bank, I've had wicked anxiety about our finances. We are paying the bills but we both just want to move on with our lives, buy a real house with a yard and not have to worry about the dogs barking and downstairs neighbors.

Hell even posting this is giving me anxiety issues, so we're just looking for any help and guidance we can get.

I took at a look at the Ocwen website, and they just seem to be another Mortgage servicer, so I don't think that really matters.

Is your question really "Should I walk away from my mortgage?"

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

Cage posted:

Im 27 and just got a job with NY state at a college earning $27,000 a year. I have 3k in my checking account, 0 debt and each month Im only paying for car insurance and my cell phone. Im looking at houses between 50k-60k but this is of course after a few years of saving up money. My question is how much money should I have saved up before I start seriously looking? Im not looking to buy one in the next few months, I figured 1.5-2 years of saving minimum. Im also sure about wanting to stay in the same city.

Am I right in assuming that it would 100% always be worth it to pay as much as you can comfortably afford for the down payment?

$27,000 a year. You don't make enough to be able to maintain a house.

What do you think you are going to do when something goes wrong and you need $7,000 for a repair? That's over 25% of your annual income.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

Cage posted:

Well, yeah. A roof is also something that doesn't just suddenly go bad though.

So lets say it didn't, and he's got 5 years to a new roof. He still can't save the money up.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari
Am I the only guy who's first reaction was "you want to play the casinostock market win your down payment?"

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

Hella Nervous posted:

Ouch. Bought our house over the summer, moved in late August (just in time for a big ole hurricane, excellent!). We knew there'd be some big fixes coming in, but I just got a proposal for replacing the vinyl siding (poorly installed, leaking under the windows and elsewhere) with Hardi siding, install insulation in the walls and attics, replace a rotting back door, and paint. $24,550 for all labor and materials, on a 1200 square foot house. Do never buy?

To be fair, this will involve some permits with the historical commission, but man. I want to get another quote on this but contractors around here are so busy most don't even return calls.

That seems high to me.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

I Love You! posted:

Re: Repeated furniture buying questions:

Don't buy thing for house until actually own house
Don't buy thing for house until actually own house
(repeat x100)

I always tell people (first time buyers) not to buy things until they have written two monthly mortgage checks.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

Arkane posted:

Must be fun sleeping on the floor/air mattress for 3 months?

Most people own a bed before they buy a house. I supposed the homeless occasionally buy a condo, but it's pretty rare.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari
To be candid, I would question if you are ready financially to buy a house. Floating 6 grand in credit card debt gives the impression of financial mismanagement.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari
I have a brother in law who is a builder. Back during the peak, he decided to build a speculation house which he sunk about a million dollars building, and listed it for 1.7 million. It’s a really nice house, and he used lots of amazing new materials when he built in. The problem with the house is the location; it’s 5 miles from the large lake in New Hampshire on a3/4 acre lot that’s too close to the neighbors. The tax assessment is at 1.05 million. I know that tax assessment doesn’t reflect the market, but few appraisers are going to exceed the tax assessed value. He had it on the market for 2 years before and they had a handful of showings, but almost no activity beyond that. The house was even featured on a TV show. Still nothing.

So here is what I’m wondering: How does a Real Estate agent tell their customer that their house isn’t going to sell at the price point they want to list it at? Is there some mentality among builders that is they keep adding stuff to it,, then it will sell eventually?

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari
I use propane for heat, the dryer, hot water, and the stove. On Monday, the tank was empty. This made me mad because we are on auto delivery. So I call the propane company.

"We show you should have 125 gallons based on your usage. We will send a truck out right away and fill your tank, pressure test your system, and light your pilot lights."

So the guy comes, and he's really cool. Then he informs me "your system is not holding pressure. That's bad. I need to call in Service."

Service comes out. "I've tested the regulators. It's a leak in your underground line. You own the line, not us" OK, fine. I start digging up 45 feet of buried line looking for connections while he drives back to his shop to get a temp tank for me."

I did like a madman, leaving a 2 foot deep trench. Turns out I have multiple leaks.

Service guy says "Wow that's a lot of digging. It's too many leaks to repair. You need a new plastic line. It's 4 bucks a foot, and we have to pull a permit to do it. And the fire department has to inspect it too.

:awesomelon:


My wife calls my cell. I give her the bad news. Her reply,

"Why don't you just have them put in a new tank that is below ground and not ugly?"

:bang:

So I call a contractor I know. $700 bucks to dig the hole, $200 to backfill it with sand.


the TLDR version:

My propane line broke, 400 dollars of propane went up in invisible smoke, and I'm paying $1500 to fix it. Home ownershop!

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

PDP-1 posted:

Tomorrow is D-Day for putting in an offer on the place I've been checking out for the last month. The owner wants $225k but everything I've seen (comparable homes nearby, current tax assessment, advice from an uncle who has done appraisal work in the past) suggests that $190k is a more realistic price.

It's been on the market for about four months despite being in a very desirable neighborhood and they've dropped the price by $10k once already so hopefully reality has sunk in a bit and they'll entertain the lower offer. I'm fairly certain I'll be the first offer they've gotten in that time and since I've done all my prep/research already I can also give them a pretty easy no-hassle sale if they just want to get out of the place.

Option B is that they get angry over being confronted with the fact that they aren't going to get their full 2006 buying price out of the thing and they tell me to go to hell. That's fine too, my apartment is comfortable and month-to-month so I'm in no rush.


e: I also lived in Dane Co. for 16 years, the poster above me is only correct between November and March of each year.

Do you have a real estate agent? If you have a good one, hopefully they can place your lowball offer in such a way that it doesn't insult the seller. It's just business, but sellers can take it very personally when you tell them that their pride and joy isn't worth what they think it is.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

QuarkJets posted:

Yeah, there's definitely a bubble in my area

It's never a sure thing.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari
Wow, this thread just turned into a useless debate about the politics of the real estate industry.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

powderific posted:

Our 1920 house has knob and tube and we got insurance through Geico. They didn't care about it at all. Amica wouldn't insure us since we don't plan on changing it, but they did say that if we switched it out in 30-60 days they could cover it (and I think they're a much better provider than Geico if you're going to change things anyway.)

You are braver than I am. I wouldn't even consider living in a house with knob and tube.

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daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari
I'm just jaded from owning a house built in 1963. Which is also known as the time before building codes were enforced.

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