Plumbing: i will hide my sins with silicone sealant

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grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Lovecrusher posted:

So, my question is, should I take the fact that this tailpeice is so hard to find as an indicator that I'm heading towards a world of hurt and clogged drains? Is plumbing the drain into the bathroom ill advisable? The sewage mainline is close so I could alternately plumb into there, but I'm not too excited to have the possibility of a clog blowing poo poo back up to the dishwasher and all over my dishes.

Advice?

Code requires 1 1/2" drain for a dishwasher. It would fail inspection, and due to the amount of mascerated food and crap that comes out of a dishwasher, would be prone to clogging. How accessible are the pipes, can you upsize the sink drain to 1 1/2" pipe?

# ¿ May 22, 2009 18:31

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 01:09

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

benitocereno posted:

I don't know anything about the freezing point with PEX, do they make insulated tubing if that's an issue?

Yes, you can insulate PEX the same way you would insulate copper. PEX is not as vulnerable to breaking when pipes freeze as copper, as it will stretch without breaking. Repeated freeze/thaw cycles can still damage it, so don't go routing it through uninsulated walls in Minnesota, but you don't have to worry about it like you would copper pipes.

PEX really is great stuff; I think it gets a bad rap just because it's so simple, so cheap and so reliable that anybody can do it. It's almost too easy... It's lead to entirely new approaches to plumbing- PEX houses often don't have networks like copper houses do, but instead use a manifold near the water heater with runs directly from there to each fixture. (It's about the same price to run 5 individual unbroken 1/2" lines to a bathroom than it is to run 3/4" hot/cold and split them out in the walls.) The worst part was that it required a $100+ crimp tool to crimp the copper sleeves onto the fittings (and you need 3 different sizes...), but new fittings now have made it less of an issue for small DIY jobs. Those shark-bite fittings are pricey, but they're great if you don't have access to a crimp tool, or if the space is simply too tight to use a crimp tool, like it often is under sinks.

grover fucked around with this message at 18:56 on May 26, 2009

# ¿ May 26, 2009 18:42

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Rd Rash 1000cc posted:

The problem with insulating a cold line in a cold space.Is you're more likely to keep the heat out instead of keep it in. This is why i'd suggest insulation the joist and not the pipe itself.

I concur with this 100%. Pipe insulation is better than nothing, but better still is moving the house insulation so that the pipe is inside the insulated boundary and heated as opposed to outside and exposed to freezing temperatures. This can entail removing insulation between the pipe and interior wall, and adding new insulation between the pipe and exterior wall/crawlspace/etc. There are other issues with energy codes, vapor barrier, etc, that also have to be considered, but it's generally pretty straightforward.

grover fucked around with this message at 18:57 on May 26, 2009

# ¿ May 26, 2009 18:50

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

I think he meant the water supply, not the DWV.

ZentraediElite posted:

The upstairs toilet in my dad's house whines/whistles when you flush it. Is this something to worry about? About 15 years ago the toilet broke in the night and did a bunch of damage to the floor/ceiling of the room below it. I'd hate for this to happen again.

Is the sound coming from the wall or from the tank? It's probably just harmonic resonance in a valve or fitting and nothing to worry about.

# ¿ May 26, 2009 22:10

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Antifreeze? Heh, don't they just, you know, drain the water out so it can't freeze? Not rocket science. Just run the water until it stops burping air bubbles.

# ¿ May 28, 2009 03:41

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Have you tried PB Blaster or WD40?

Lucid Smog posted:

Also, does the same prime and then cement rule apply to drain lines? I'm going to be adding an auger access to some 1.5" drain pipe in my basement soon.

Yes, it's exactly the same. Purple primer, plus the appropriate cement.

As to the yellow one-step cement... it's for CPVC only, and whether or not it's legal depends on the local code. I don't see anything in IBC that would prohibit it. If local codes specifically require a pre-application of primer, it may be a "letter of the law" thing.

# ¿ May 28, 2009 14:30

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Rd Rash 1000cc posted:

Anyone guess whats wrong with the dishwasher going into the disposal in this picture?

It needs to go to an air gap first

...which is conveniently provided by the inlet being above the garbage dispsal grinder. This is normal and legal, there's nothing wrong with it.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2009 02:28

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Rd Rash 1000cc posted:

No it's not. Show me the code where it says its legal. Its connected and since its so far down near the trap if the sewer backs up it will most likely back up into the dish washer.

What are you talking about? The air gap has nothing to do with sewers backing up. In fact, unless you're in a flood zone, there's no provision whatsoever against sewage back-ups in a home; P-traps don't do anything for that, either. Air gaps are required for washing machines and certain other appliances to vent properly and prevent the P-trap from siphoning out. That's it. Disposal or tailpiece, both provide this air gap.

Oh, the code that says this is legal is IRC P2717.3, btw. Says so quite explicitly. The hose should be supported so that some part of is is fastened to the bottom of the counter is the only thing not quite right; otherwise, the line can fill up with crap from the sink and clog.

grover fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Jun 12, 2009

# ¿ Jun 12, 2009 02:56

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Rd Rash 1000cc posted:

I follow the UPC. The Air gap will help prevent if the sewer backs up from going into the dish washer because one its a the rim of the sink (highest part of the ficture). Just because you're not in a flood level doesn't mean a sewer cant back up. If someone flushes something stupid and it clogs a drain line, it could back up into the lowest fixture. Now usually that's the shower would be the lowest but if the kitchen sink is for some reason it will back up there. It will go into your DW and gently caress it up.

An air-gap or anti-backflow device is required in the supply line of a dishwasher, is that what you're talking about? That's entirely different from the requirements for a drain line, though. And DWV systems are certainly not designed for elegant failures when clogged- if they were, then there would be anti-backflow fittings all throughout the DWV to force the overflow out the roof or somewhere. They ONLY use them for buildings in flood plains, though. For us normal houses, if there's a clog, the poo poo comes out the lowest hole, regardless. Usually a shower or a floor drain.

Please quote UPC, I'm interested in what it says; I have a feeling you're reading it wrong and then IPC/IRC and UPC are saying the same thing in slightly different ways.

(Ignore the highlighting, that was from another project I did a couple years ago.)

My copy of IPC 09 is at work; I only have IRC 06 handy right now.

grover fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Jun 12, 2009

# ¿ Jun 12, 2009 03:18

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

OK, I apologize, UPC does require it. IPC and IRC, however, do not. I've never seen an air gap on the drain line of a dishwasher, but I've always lived in IBC states- all they do is loop it up under the counter.

Who uses UPC as opposed to IBC? I thought US was 100% IBC now.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2009 13:05

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

dyne posted:

QUESTION: How do I replace a shut off valve (or plug up the pipe) under the kitchen sink when there's still a small amount of water flowing through it? A temporary fix would be fine just so I can turn the hot water back on and shower

Can you shut off water to your house, either by a main valve or at the water meter?

# ¿ Jul 20, 2009 00:10

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

dyne posted:

Click here for the full 1024x768 image.
I believe this is the main valve, right next to the meter. There are no other valves prior to the water heater besides the one right before the heater (which is also corroded and leaks). That pipe plunges into the concrete basement floor.

FYI, it looks like there are two valves here- one is obvious, the other is the little handleless gate valve just on the other side of the meter that you have to use a wrench or street key to turn. As Rd Rash suggested, try them both.

# ¿ Jul 20, 2009 10:51

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

dyne posted:

After the meter, the pipe is wrapped in plastic over some sort of thin insulation, just by squeezing it I can't feel anything other than pipe.

As far as my leaking kitchen pipe is concerned, I found a push-on shut off valve at Lowes that's working well. I'm going to have to replace the pipe eventually because the valve is now only like 4" off the floor

I thought I saw it in the photo, but it may have just been a wrinkle in the plastic. The city should always have a way of shutting off water to your house, though, you just have to find it. In my area, it's easily accessible to homeowners to open/shut the valve ourselves if we want to.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2009 10:46

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Audio Rules posted:

Hello plumbing wizzards out there. We are having a recurring problem with a clogged trap in the bathroom sink. I've found these alternative no-clog traps that promise to solve the problem.

But I'm still sceptical.

Anyone experience with one of those? Do they work or do they stink?

The problem in my bathroom sink has never been the trap, but the plunger/stopper. I have to take it out every 6 months or so and clean it, because it just gets so gnarled in hair and toothpaste and whatever other poo poo's there (not sure what else it could be besides toothpaste, mouthwash or water, not much else goes in that sink.)

Hmmm... Of course, I don't really need to ever stop up the sink, maybe I aught to just remove it completely.

# ¿ Jul 28, 2009 23:13

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Rd Rash 1000cc posted:

6 months isnt bad. I would suggest stop washing hair down the drain, and honestly how much tooth paste do you brush with that makes it so think it clogs poo poo.

Not a whole lot. Nor do I wash hair down the sink, I honestly don't even know how the hair gets in there, it's not like I shed much, there's never any hair on my comb, but it obviously does get there somehow, because I pull it out when I clean it. I can only imagine tiny bits twice a day add up over time.

:iiam:

# ¿ Jul 29, 2009 02:59

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Saltin posted:

That's just it, I am having an issue. From time to time, when I open the dishwaser, I notice it is full of water. This water isnt water left over from the dishwasher not draining properly. It isnt water from a leaking water supply.

The water is coming from somewhere else. The only place it could be coming from is basically up the green line and into the dishwasher. This means water from the sink draining is somehow getting into the dishwasher!

How much water is it? Your dishwasher may be siphoning out the p-trap when it's done draining. Probably why nobody ever does it that way.

kid sinister posted:

Are you on the bottom floor? It sounds like you have a clog in the drain stack for your column of apartments in your building and the poo poo flowing out of your sink is from the apartment above. Capping it would only cause the stack to fill up and eventually cause the same problem in your upstairs neighbor's apartment, possibly leaking down into your kitchen, again...

Talk with your landlord again. If the drain clogged while you were away on vacation, then it most likely wasn't your fault and it's his responsibility to repair it, not to mention fix it before it becomes a health risk to you or the other tenants.

Also, some leases specifically restrict the tenant from making repairs himself or even hire a repairman, they must use the landlord's contractor. You'll need to check your lease agreement to verify this.

Yeah, this isn't your problem, it's your landlord's, possibly an upstairs neighbor's. You can't have caused it because you weren't home. Your neighbor upstairs probably never reported it because his sink drains fine- right into your kitchen.

grover fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Aug 24, 2009

# ¿ Aug 24, 2009 22:42

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Red PEX is supposed to be for hot water, and blue for cold, that's why they make it in different colors! Now you've gone and confused everyone :P

I found my wife's garden shears to cut PEX even better than expensive special-made cutters.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2009 01:26

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Rd Rash 1000cc posted:

Oops i had my pex backwards on the A and C.

I love their wording. Its freeze resistant not freeze proof. Anything will freeze just give it time. The way a pipe breaks is when two different places freeze and connect. When one spot freezes the water has a place to expand outward. Once it reaches a point where it cant. It will expand outward and bust pipes.

PEX will stretch and expand instead of burst, though. Do you recall offhand how many times PEX can typically freeze/thaw before cracking?

# ¿ Sep 5, 2009 14:02

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

TraderStav posted:

What other information can I provide?

Thanks!

1) Is the washer and sink in your basement?

2) Where is the smell coming from, and is the P-trap the smell is coming from getting siphoned dry after you do a load of laundry?

# ¿ Sep 28, 2009 00:06

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

The p-trap is an ingenious invention that uses a small bit of standing water to block the sewer stink from seeping out every sink and drain in your house. The ones in your sink are easy to see, but floor drains, showers, etc, all use them too. They work in tandem with vent pipes and stacks- if a vent is clogged and you dump a lot of water in the pipe at once (like when a washer drains), the p-traps can get siphoned out, and the stink will escape. I suspect this is what's happening to you. If you can verify, we can try to help point you in the right direction

# ¿ Sep 28, 2009 00:12

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Drain line must slope down, vent line must slope up. One line can *maybe* be both if it's short enough, otherwise you'll need separate drain and vent pipes. Hot and cold water lines are fine regardless of routing. It's legal to have them running exposed outside your wall/behind your dishwasher, but not aesthetically very nice. You may run into issues with the size of the pipes of the inspector does the math (you can only put so many sinks/appliances on a single drain line or water supply) but they probably won't care if you do everything else right.

grover fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Oct 29, 2009

# ¿ Oct 28, 2009 10:50

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Whattup, Pappy?

Rd Rash 1000cc posted:

I should have graded those lines correctly in my drawing.

1/4 per foot is standard to grade a drain in Washington. Is it the same with you grover?

We are allowed to run 4inch at 1/8 inch per foot if Authority having Jurisdiction approves it.

We're IPC/IRC here in VA, so it's probably all the same. (I've got the full IBC set on CD at work, but just a well worn IRC 2006 at home.) IPC says 1/4" per foot for 2.5" and smaller, 1/8" for 3" and larger. AHJ here doesn't enforce this strictly, so long as best effort is made to get as close as possible given real-life constraints, like joist height, etc. Vents can be dead horizontal, AFAIK, they just can't reverse slope.

Speaking of which, found the table I was looking for. (IRC P3105.1) At 1/4" per foot slope, you can have 5' of horizontal 1.25" pipe between the bar sink's p-trap and the drain/vent connection. If using 1.5" pipe, it can go 6'.

grover fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Oct 29, 2009

# ¿ Oct 29, 2009 00:51

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Rd Rash 1000cc posted:

whats the smallest pipe you use to vent a single fixture?

1 1/2abs is pretty much the norm for just a lav. We usually bring a 2 inch drain to it for over kill.

Depends on the fixture size, but minimum is 1/2 the size of the drain, and no less than 1.25". A bar sink would be minimums all around, I'd think. To be honest, I don't often get into the details like this at work unless there's a problem somewhere, so I don't really have a "usually".

# ¿ Oct 30, 2009 00:55

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Yeah, that's BS. I'm not going to say it's not done, but it's certainly illegal in all 50 states and there seems to be 0 reason to do it that way.

# ¿ Oct 30, 2009 02:22

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Rd Rash 1000cc posted:

I'm not sure if you already posted it but what type of plumbing do you do grover? Are you commerical, resi, or service. And union or non union?

Truth be told, I'm an engineer :science:

I'm a licensed PE, and fairly well versed in many areas, including plumbing and HVAC. Professionally, I do mostly electrical work; I'm flattered that you think well enough of me in this thread to assume I'm a plumber, though!

grover fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Oct 30, 2009

# ¿ Oct 30, 2009 02:57

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

As a stop-gap, you could adjust the temp of your water heater hotter. Just be mindful of scalding! Less hot water for a given temp shower will stretch the tank a little longer. You can also get valves that go on your shower head to reduce the flow. I did both of these until we upsized our tank, and it can really help. Even a relative trickle makes for a nice long comfortable shower.

Edit: Scald temperature chart showing the number of seconds it takes to get a 2nd degree burn at different water temperatures (EG, don't ever set it above 135F, and even that's getting pretty dangerous, especially for kids):

grover fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Nov 21, 2009

# ¿ Nov 20, 2009 20:15

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

100 HOGS AGREE posted:

So the chrome piece coming out of the wall, does that just screw in back there and will I be able to put it back later?

Yep, sure does.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2009 20:37

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

How long does your hot water last, though? Most of those tanks only allow for 15-20 minutes at the most, and two heads will probably cut that about in half.

# ¿ Dec 20, 2009 20:18

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

"[panic posted:

"]
I have toilet in the master bathroom that has been giving me a ton of trouble. Specifically, it smells like sewer gas is leaking up, and every time you walk in the bathroom after the door has been closed for a few hours, you get blasted in the nostrils with an unpleasant smell.

Of course, the first thing I did was replace the wax ring, but the problem was not fixed. At that point, I had a plumber come in for $75 just to check everything out. He pulled the toilet up again, looked over the flange and didn't see any cracks, then installed yet another new wax ring and left. The smell was gone for a day or so, but then it came back as badly as before.

At this point I'm just lost. I'm thinking there must be some sort of hairline crack somewhere that I haven't seen. I'm ready to just go buy a new toilet altogether, but is there anything else I should check before I bite the bullet?

Sounds like a dry P-trap. The P-trap's entire purpose is to form a water dam between your nose and stinky sewer gas. There should be a couple of inches of water in the toilet. There should also be water in the P-traps of your shower, sink and floor drain (if any). Any one of these could be the culprit- the smell is all the same, they all go to the same place.

There are a couple causes; one is if a sink/whatever isn't used often enough, the water can evaporate. This is easy to fix- just pour some water into it every once in a while.

Another cause is clogged vent lines. If vent lines clog, the P-trap can be siphoned dry. Symptom of this are bubbling whenever you use a lot of water (there should never be any bubbles coming back up), or the toilet draining almost completely dry after flushing. In this case, you've got to snake the vents to clear the clog.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2010 15:01

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

slap me silly posted:

Hah, just what I need to hear now that we've established I have a cast iron sewer pipe and it's loving freezing in these parts.

It the pipe is at the proper depth, it shouldn't freeze. Certainly shouldn't break the pipe, even if it's shallow, because the only way it could do that is for the entire pipe to fill completely full with water and freeze, and have the hydraulic pressure burst the pipe, and even then, iron pipes are incredibly strong. I think the freeze/thaw thing is bullshit. Probably the house settling or the pipe rusting through or destroyed at an elbow with a power snake, or a combination of the three. I'm interested to see what comes of this.

Methylethylaldehyde posted:

gently caress freezing ground. The cast iron sewer pipe loving up and broke under the house because of freeze/thaw pressures. I just paid $180 to get the fucker snaked out after a tidal wave of poo poo colored water flooded into my garage after taking a shower and doing a load of wash.

Good loving thing I'm renting, to repair it was estimated at north of $15000.

Just wait until they discover something you did caused the failure, and your landlord bills you for it!

Regardless, $15k seems ridiculous. Digging up and patching concrete isn't nearly that expensive! The real problem is finding exactly where the pipe is leaking; someone with the right equipment should be able to find it pretty easily, though. I don't see this costing more than 2 grand, tops. Probably cheaper than that.

grover fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Feb 12, 2010

# ¿ Feb 12, 2010 18:03

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Methylethylaldehyde posted:

Gotta dig a trench to the street 8-12 feet down. That's a big loving backhoe, and a huge metric fuckload of dirt that needs a place to go.
$255 to send a camera down and determine exactly where the break is, then it all comes down to how much of a pain in the as getting to the break will be to repair it.

On the plus side, the plumber is licensed and bonded, and nothing we have done could have caused it!

Is it REALLY that deep? Usually, the laterals are fairly shallow (1-3') and only dive deep near the street. Even if it is 8-12', that's still not $15k, that's a few hours of backhoe work; shouldn't cost more than a couple hundred bucks for moving the dirt.

Also, most certainly NOT freezing if it's that deep.

# ¿ Feb 13, 2010 06:17

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Methylethylaldehyde posted:

Alaska, pipes have to be down that far when they leave the house, otherwise you end up with pipes that break because of the temperature differential between the frozen ground outside and the warmer soil under your house. As per the plumber who just did one last week, they're usually 8-12 feet down depending on the house's location and what kind of soil is present.

Oh! You didn't mention that

# ¿ Feb 13, 2010 06:26

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

dwoloz posted:

I'm in contract to buy a 1920 San Francisco Bay Area home with copper plumbing

Id like to get a full inspection done: Would you guys recommend going with a general inspector who does everything or hire individual tradespeople (ie plumber for plumbing)

Building inspectors pitch themselves as jacks-of-all-trades and might know some about some of the trades, but they can't hold a candle to actual experts. Of course, typical joe plumber or joe electrician doesn't necessarily know the code either. If you can get a referral for a knowledgeable electrician and plumber, I'd highly recommend you get pros in electrical and plumbing check out your house. Same goes for structural/seismic, pests, etc. Even lead paint and asbestos.

Or, you can just pay for the general home inspection and see how comfortable you are with his/her report and go from there. If they indicate problems in certain areas, you can have a pro come in and look at them closer, give price quotes, etc.

# ¿ Feb 15, 2010 18:15

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

mr.belowaverage posted:

For what it's worth, my home inspector was a P.Eng and didn't spot the following, in one bathroom alone:

Please tell me he was electrical or environmental, and not a plumbing P.Eng...

# ¿ Feb 18, 2010 23:23

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

That sounds very likely- no other reason you'd put in a mixing valve in this situation, especially considering the size of your tank and cost of the mixing valve.

Tanks lose surprisingly little energy through the insulation, so unless you need to heat the water overnight with cheap electricity, you might as well remove the valve and eliminate that point of failure. You can go hotter than 120F, but I wouldn't go above 135F, the scalding risk is too high. You can always test and adjust to your liking, too.

grover fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Feb 28, 2010

# ¿ Feb 28, 2010 19:02

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Rd Rash 1000cc posted:

Dietcokefiend i suggest opening a window when you are around the glue next time.

Building model airplanes in a poorly ventilated room is a surprisingly pleasurable experience!

Is it the same way with plumbing?

# ¿ Mar 21, 2010 11:44

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Hank Killinger posted:

Toilet plumbing question: This weekend, I heard drain burping coming from my apartment bathroom so I went in to see what was up. The burping had stopped before I reached the bathroom, however I heard a faint fizzing noise; so I played a little game of find the sound. I eventually pinpointed the sound to a panel on the base of the toilet bowl which covers a bolt (that I assume holds the toilet to the floor). White bubbles, which looked kind of like soap suds, were enveloping the panel.

Do the bubbles mean the wax ring between the toilet and the floor is failing? Is it something I need to bother the property maintenance about or is it just some other tenant playing chemistry volcano with their toilet?

Wax rings aren't intended to be an airtight pressure seal. Does your toilet ever burp or bubble when your neighbor flushes or your neighbor's washing machine drains? And evidence of this in your shower drain? Might be a partial clog in the pipe allowing water to back up, and your toilet seal is the lowest point.

grover fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Mar 23, 2010

# ¿ Mar 23, 2010 14:07

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Papercut posted:

What should I do? This is the only toilet in the house, and I'd like to go to the bathroom again today.

Use a jumbo wax ring if you find the standard is too small. They're like $1 a piece; just buy them both and throw away the one you don't use. Seriously, this isn't a problem. Make sure to shim your toilet when you reinstall it- it shouldn't be wobbling, and could crack it if you don't. Lack of shims was probably the main problem in the first place.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2010 23:23

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Here's a good article: http://www.energysavers.gov/your_home/water_heating/index.cfm/mytopic=13040

It's a pretty simple concept. Gray water is always warmer than your water source, especially in the case of showers. Waste (or drain water) heat reclamation systems pass the warm drain water through a heat exchanger that's hooked up to a water source. The system can either be connected before the cold and hot water split off (which supposedly provides maximum efficiency), or you can place it right before the hot water heater if you like your cold water to be as cold as possible.

I haven't done the calculations, but I'm pretty sure you'd waste more energy manufacturing and installing the pipe to do this than you'd get back in a lifetime of use.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2010 01:26

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 01:09

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

It's a passive system, basically one pipe wrapped around another. The drain water is always hotter than the incoming water. One example, the GFX exchanger, retails for around $500 or so. Here's what they look like:

So, for example, when your washing machine is draining that hot gray water through the PVC pipe, it will be heating all the water flowing into your hot water heater... which... oh wait, I guess it wouldn't, because the hot water heater filled when the tub filled, not when it drained.

So, I guess a better example would be when your dishwasher is draining... er... nevermind.

It *would* work when you're taking a shower, though! That design looks horribly inefficient, though. Water falling through there will spend so little time, virtually no heat will be transferred. I can guarantee you spend more money (and energy) making/installing that than you'll get in a lifetime of showers. Not to mention you'd have to separately plumb your gray water and toilets, which costs more money/energy, too. As in most plumbing "free energy!" schemes, you're better off just taking shorter showers. If you really want to save energy, put a "Navy shower" fast cut-off valve on your shower head. And yeah, you might actually see energy pack back on your $2 valve investment and 5 minutes it would take to install

grover fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Apr 4, 2010

# ¿ Apr 4, 2010 16:48

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Hobbies, Crafts, & Houses > Plumbing: i will hide my sins with silicone sealant

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