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Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell


bobfather posted:

Windows 10, the operating system whose primary web browser breaks on a fresh install and has an intermittently-cooperative start menu.

Lol, M$ amirite?

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MC Fruit Stripe
Nov 26, 2002

around and around we go


If you don't want your digital device to collect information about you, I'm pretty sure I have a copy of QBASIC kicking around here somewhere.

Jeb! Repetition
Dec 24, 2012

Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.


That guy's not wrong. Does anyone have a calendar app like the kind I need or a way to make the Windows 10 calendar behave that way, btw

bobfather
Sep 20, 2001

I will analyze your nervous system for beer money

Thermopyle posted:

Lol, M$ amirite?

I would argue that the M$ moniker has never been more appropriate than now: when literally anyone can pay Microsoft to preinstall their garbage insecure password wallet right into the OS.

Jeb! Repetition
Dec 24, 2012

Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.


I'm starting to think the problem might not be with the calendar, but with the way Windows 10 does notifications, because I just opened the "action center" and a notification I missed was sitting in there. Is there a way to keep them from just getting stored in there and making sure they actually appear and make a sound?

bobfather
Sep 20, 2001

I will analyze your nervous system for beer money

MC Fruit Stripe posted:

If you don't want your digital device to collect information about you, I'm pretty sure I have a copy of QBASIC kicking around here somewhere.

Installs Windows 10 Fall Creatorís Update

Opens Edge and types Chrome download into the search bar; browser grinds to a halt and has to be force closed

Clicks the Start menu; fails to open; clicks it 5 times fast and then it opens

Clicks Internet Explorer; types Chrome download into the search bar

Navigates around the Bing advertisements for Microsoft Edge

Downloads and installs Chrome; on first run Chrome asks to be default browser; gently caress yes you say

Windows pop up: are you sure you wonít try Edge, our awesome new browser?

The aristocrats.

MC Fruit Stripe
Nov 26, 2002

around and around we go


Installs Windows 10

Installs Chrome conveniently from browser or pre-downloaded exe

Hits start

Types 'default apps' and opens it

Changes 'Web browser' to Chrome

Clicks yes on "Are you sure? Edge is super awesome" prompt

Has no idea what you are talking about

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

wakey wakey to
this bowl of tasty


Yams Fan

I like how every once in a while W10 will toss a PRETTY PLEASE TRY EDGE! on the lock screen before you hit a button for the password prompt.

They've done it for skype too.

Jeb! Repetition
Dec 24, 2012

Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.


I like how they rebranded MSN Messenger as Windows Live Messenger (so they could try and consolidate accounts and datamine more) so everyone switched to Skype, then they bought Skype so everyone switched to Discord

doctorfrog
Mar 14, 2007

Great.


I'm as much a W10 hater as anyone else, but it's not hard to use Linux for daily crap and switch to Windows 10 (or an old install of 7, even) when you want to play a video game or do work that can only be done in an MS environment. It's unfair bullshit and a hassle, but it's not hard if you care enough about it.

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

wakey wakey to
this bowl of tasty


Yams Fan

Now that WSL is badass I don't even run linux anymore.

Well, I have it on my raspberry systems. But as a workstation linux can piss off forever.

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009


xzzy posted:

Now that WSL is badass I don't even run linux anymore.

Well, I have it on my raspberry systems. But as a workstation linux can piss off forever.

Or you can go the other way: now that wine is beyond awesome (was "only" awesome a decade ago) there is not reason to run windows anymore. You can run most of your favourite windows apps from linux directly and still have a stable, relatively secure, not spying on you and wonderful to develop in operating system. For that one word or excel application that you launch once per year ... yeah, not really worth it even with a $0 windows price.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

~death to capitalism~
Every DSA is a cop




Volguus posted:

Or you can go the other way: now that wine is beyond awesome (was "only" awesome a decade ago) there is not reason to run windows anymore. You can run most of your favourite windows apps from linux directly and still have a stable, relatively secure, not spying on you and wonderful to develop in operating system. For that one word or excel application that you launch once per year ... yeah, not really worth it even with a $0 windows price.

Except you can't go that way, because WINE doesn't actually work that well. Also lol at the usual tinfoil hat "I'm being spied on!!!!" poo poo.

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009


fishmech posted:

Except you can't go that way, because WINE doesn't actually work that well. Also lol at the usual tinfoil hat "I'm being spied on!!!!" poo poo.

wine actually works VERY well. they've been hammering those windows APIs for decades now. Are there still APIs not implemented? Definitely! Are there programs that use undocumented windows APIs? Definitely. But for the vast (very vast, over 95%) majority of programs, wine works just fine.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

~death to capitalism~
Every DSA is a cop




Volguus posted:

wine actually works VERY well. they've been hammering those windows APIs for decades now. Are there still APIs not implemented? Definitely! Are there programs that use undocumented windows APIs? Definitely. But for the vast (very vast, over 95%) majority of programs, wine works just fine.

By works just fine you mean "the bugs mostly don't get in the way". It's just a flat out lie which only makes sense if you're barely using Windows programs in the first place.

That may be your use scenario, but that only works at all if you're already deep in Linuxdesktopland, unlike the other 7 billion people on earth.

Ojjeorago
Sep 21, 2008

I had a dream, too. It wasn't pleasant, though ... I dreamt I was a moron...


Gary’s Answer

Volguus posted:

Or you can go the other way: now that wine is beyond awesome (was "only" awesome a decade ago) there is not reason to run windows anymore. You can run most of your favourite windows apps from linux directly and still have a stable, relatively secure, not spying on you and wonderful to develop in operating system. For that one word or excel application that you launch once per year ... yeah, not really worth it even with a $0 windows price.

So what youíre saying is that 2018 is the year of Linux on the desktop?

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009


Ojjeorago posted:

So what youíre saying is that 2018 is the year of Linux on the desktop?

Definitely. Only 20 years too late.

fishmech posted:

By works just fine you mean "the bugs mostly don't get in the way". It's just a flat out lie which only makes sense if you're barely using Windows programs in the first place.

That may be your use scenario, but that only works at all if you're already deep in Linuxdesktopland, unlike the other 7 billion people on earth.

If you call me a liar then would be only appropriate to provide some support for it, right? Yes, most of the windows programs that I use are games, which are some of the most demanding both hardware and API-wise. Surely there must be windows programs that don't work but to say "It's just a flat out lie which only makes sense if you're barely using Windows programs in the first place." now that's a flat out lie.

Coming out and saying: but app X doesn't work is bullshit, because Y and Z and T and A and B and C all work. Actually most of them work. Check out https://appdb.winehq.org/. Very demanding games are there, working just fine.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

~death to capitalism~
Every DSA is a cop




Volguus posted:

Definitely. Only 20 years too late.


If you call me a liar then would be only appropriate to provide some support for it, right? Yes, most of the windows programs that I use are games, which are some of the most demanding both hardware and API-wise. Surely there must be windows programs that don't work but to say "It's just a flat out lie which only makes sense if you're barely using Windows programs in the first place." now that's a flat out lie.

Coming out and saying: but app X doesn't work is bullshit, because Y and Z and T and A and B and C all work. Actually most of them work. Check out https://appdb.winehq.org/. Very demanding games are there, working just fine.

You just showed me a link that shows that most software for Windows doesn't run on WINE correctly - how you think this supports the claim that you can just use WINE for all your Windows stuff, I don't know.

Out of 14,341 applications currently in the database, only 4,598 are listed as having full compatibility without bugs (and I'll note, a ton of those are software that's already cross-platform), some of which only have that if you use outdated versions of said programs which may not work as the user needs them now. Most software requires at the least workarounds to try to get all of the functionality, and usually there are things straight up broken.

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

wakey wakey to
this bowl of tasty


Yams Fan

Show me unity or lightroom or photoshop or my entire steam library working in wine and I might try it out again.

Course none of that fixes the disaster that is linux desktop environments but I can work around that *loads up wikipedia's list of window managers once again*

Factor Mystic
Mar 19, 2006

Baby's First Post-Apocalyptic Fiction

Jeb! Repetition posted:

I'm starting to think the problem might not be with the calendar, but with the way Windows 10 does notifications, because I just opened the "action center" and a notification I missed was sitting in there. Is there a way to keep them from just getting stored in there and making sure they actually appear and make a sound?

Do you have quiet hours on, by any chance?

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009


fishmech posted:

You just showed me a link that shows that most software for Windows doesn't run on WINE correctly - how you think this supports the claim that you can just use WINE for all your Windows stuff, I don't know.

Out of 14,341 applications currently in the database, only 4,598 are listed as having full compatibility without bugs (and I'll note, a ton of those are software that's already cross-platform), some of which only have that if you use outdated versions of said programs which may not work as the user needs them now. Most software requires at the least workarounds to try to get all of the functionality, and usually there are things straight up broken.

I just showed you a link that shows that most software for Windows does run correctly on WINE. No idea what the hell were you reading, but that's not what the web page is showing. But hey ... who am i to judge, do whatever you think its best.

xzzy posted:

Show me unity or lightroom or photoshop or my entire steam library working in wine and I might try it out again.

Course none of that fixes the disaster that is linux desktop environments but I can work around that *loads up wikipedia's list of window managers once again*

If you're paying the big bucks for unity, lightroom or photoshop trying to run them on any other OS than the supported one would be an extremely dumb move. Regardless on how well or poorly they are supported. And that's true for any specialized software that is essential for your business. So "Show me unity or lightroom or photoshop " request makes absolutely no sense. "my entire steam library" ... there are chances of quite a bit of it working. A fair bit of games straight up have linux versions, with more coming up every day.
But, as I told fishmech, do whatever you think its best. Nobody can force you to run anything on your own computer. If you open your mind a bit you may find alternatives that are much better. Just need to try. But you definitely don't need to.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

~death to capitalism~
Every DSA is a cop




Volguus posted:

I just showed you a link that shows that most software for Windows does run correctly on WINE.

No. It doesn't. Only applications that rate as "platinum" on the database are applications the WINE team considers to run correctly. All others on the list are running at least partially incorrectly, ranging from requiring workarounds to being completely unusable.

Look at the site itself - for the rating of Platinum there are only 4598 entries returned out of over 14,000. And then look at them deeper:
Microsoft Word turns up in a search for Platinum, but here's how the version compatibility shakes out:

The only platinum-rated versions are 32 bit Word 6.0 from 1993, Word 95, and Word 2007. You're thus left with at best 3 versions behind in Word.


Maybe in desktopLinux world, having less than a third of applications rated as ever running correctly is a good bar. In the Windows world, it isn't. WINE is not a windows replacement.

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009


fishmech posted:

No. It doesn't. Only applications that rate as "platinum" on the database are applications the WINE team considers to run correctly. All others on the list are running at least partially incorrectly, ranging from requiring workarounds to being completely unusable.

Look at the site itself - for the rating of Platinum there are only 4598 entries returned out of over 14,000. And then look at them deeper:
Microsoft Word turns up in a search for Platinum, but here's how the version compatibility shakes out:
The only platinum-rated versions are 32 bit Word 6.0 from 1993, Word 95, and Word 2007. You're thus left with at best 3 versions behind in Word.

Oh, right, stupid me, I thought you actually tried something and had trouble with. Right.
For your information, that database is only as up to date as the users make it. Popular games are usually in the top, as a fair amount of people care about them running. Office applications records aren't that often updated. However, microsoft office suite of applications does tend to be one of the best ones supported out there.
In general, a rating of gold or higher means that the application runs without any problems. Of course, as always, ymmv.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

~death to capitalism~
Every DSA is a cop




Volguus posted:

Oh, right, stupid me, I thought you actually tried something and had trouble with. Right.
For your information, that database is only as up to date as the users make it. Popular games are usually in the top, as a fair amount of people care about them running. Office applications records aren't that often updated. However, microsoft office suite of applications does tend to be one of the best ones supported out there.
In general, a rating of gold or higher means that the application runs without any problems. Of course, as always, ymmv.

Wrong, a rating of gold means that a program has problems running that is literally what it means. It's baffling that you do not understand this when the project makes clear statements on the ratings.

You cited the WINE app database as evidence that most programs work, you don't get to run back and say you don't consider it accurate. You should stop giving people bad advice and outright lies like "most Windows applications run without any problems", this is empirically not true.

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

wakey wakey to
this bowl of tasty


Yams Fan

Volguus posted:

If you're paying the big bucks for unity, lightroom or photoshop trying to run them on any other OS than the supported one would be an extremely dumb move. Regardless on how well or poorly they are supported. And that's true for any specialized software that is essential for your business. So "Show me unity or lightroom or photoshop " request makes absolutely no sense. "my entire steam library" ... there are chances of quite a bit of it working. A fair bit of games straight up have linux versions, with more coming up every day.
But, as I told fishmech, do whatever you think its best. Nobody can force you to run anything on your own computer. If you open your mind a bit you may find alternatives that are much better. Just need to try. But you definitely don't need to.



I made a comment that WSL and windows is awesome and you showed up trying to convince people to use linux+wine. Then told me to run whatever makes me happy. So why did you post?

(I've been a linux admin for 20+ years, I know what it can/can't do)

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

Ten months later the
reactor is started.


This pedantic slapfest about linux is WINE's support for Word 5.5 for DOS.

peak debt
Mar 10, 2001
b& :(

fishmech posted:

Wrong, a rating of gold means that a program has problems running that is literally what it means. It's baffling that you do not understand this when the project makes clear statements on the ratings.

You cited the WINE app database as evidence that most programs work, you don't get to run back and say you don't consider it accurate. You should stop giving people bad advice and outright lies like "most Windows applications run without any problems", this is empirically not true.

How do they define problem though. Because emulator people occasionally have weird ideas about what defines "perfect emulation".

If a typical person can use an application's most used features without having significantly more crashes than that program would have on the native platform it's good enough...

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

~death to capitalism~
Every DSA is a cop




peak debt posted:

How do they define problem though. Because emulator people occasionally have weird ideas about what defines "perfect emulation".

If a typical person can use an application's most used features without having significantly more crashes than that program would have on the native platform it's good enough...

Wine's not an emulator. Also this guy is trying to pitch it as a full replacement.

It's any issue in attempting to use the software that didn't exist on Windows. The Gold rating is that all problems encountered have workarounds. Silver is that some of them have no workarounds, leaving the program at least somewhat broken. Bronze means there are a very large amount of such issues and Garbage means the program either can't run at all, or the problems are so intense the main functionality is essentially missing.

Double Punctuation
Dec 30, 2009

Ships were made for sinking;
Whiskey made for drinking;
If we were made of cellophane
We'd all get stinking drunk much faster!


This might blow your mind, then: Windows 10 doesnít run all Windows apps perfectly, either.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

~death to capitalism~
Every DSA is a cop




Double Punctuation posted:

This might blow your mind, then: Windows 10 doesnít run all Windows apps perfectly, either.

"Since I stubbed my toe, I better chop the whole leg off and replace it with the leg off a store mannequin"

MC Fruit Stripe
Nov 26, 2002

around and around we go


I've read each of the replies every time the thread tells me there's a new post and I still don't understand who is arguing what point.

Wine can't run all Windows applications flawlessly and no one should be surprised by this. If you want to run Windows applications and not find yourself in a slap fight over how well they run, you should probably install an operating system called Microsoft Windows. More information is available here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/

doctorfrog
Mar 14, 2007

Great.


Some folks don't wanna run windows, but wanna run software that gets windows-exclusive things done, and complain about it because they think things should be better. Other folks who don't care as much act like they don't understand why they don't like it. Old as the internet, but it's not that hard to understand.
Side A: "I don't like this, and I wish it were different. I may or may not say this at every opportunity."
Side B: "Well, I don't have a problem with it, so no one should complain about it, and I'll pretend you don't have a real complaint."

e: whether that belongs in the gol danged windows software thread, though...

Alpha Mayo
Jan 15, 2007

You can't kill the Bitcoin.
The Bitcoin will live on.

I tried to kill the Bitcoin.
BUT I FAILED! As I was smite to the ground.


Does Windows put some restriction on port 80 that I don't know about?

I have Virtualbox running Linux that has port 80 being served by NGINX
In Linux I can use Links2 browser to go to localhost:80 and NGINX start page loads fine.

In Virtualbox I am using NAT (Windows 10 Host to Alpine Linux Guest), with Port Forwarding turned on (Port 80 to GUESTIP:80)

When I go to localhost:80 in Windows, nothing loads. Nor does it load if I go to GUESTIP:80 (but that is expected behavior, since my router is not aware of the 10.0.0.0 subnet and would forward it to the next gateway, my ISP).

Weird thing is, I set up an SSH server in guest Linux running on port 22, with Port Forwarding on 22, and I can Putty localhost:22 just fine on the Host.
The HTTP works if I change 80 to 8055 too

I tried running Virtualbox as Admin then starting the host. No difference.
I also tried turning the Windows firewall off. No difference.

bobfather
Sep 20, 2001

I will analyze your nervous system for beer money

Edit, never mind. Right at the end.

Try setting up IIS on the Windows machine and see if that lets you see the web server it sets up on 80.

Alpha Mayo
Jan 15, 2007

You can't kill the Bitcoin.
The Bitcoin will live on.

I tried to kill the Bitcoin.
BUT I FAILED! As I was smite to the ground.


Yeah just figured it out, using TCPView it said port 80 was being used by SYSTEM (Pid 4). Which usually means a system service. Did some Googling and turns out Windows 10 has a shitload of services that will grab port 80 and not release it. The one causing the probems for me was "World Wide Web Publishing Service" which I don't know what it is or why it is on. Stopped/disabled it and port 80 is working now.

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MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003



For some reason you had windows's webserver components installed.

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