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Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this


VoodooXT posted:

China balls are good sources of soft lighting. Really good for people's faces.

Ah, so it's pretty much exactly what I thought it would be. I remember a lot of references to them when I was studying Eyes Wide Shut, which makes sense; this was the same film that used boards of Christmas lights as ambient lighting.

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Carefree Koala
Apr 5, 2006


SwedeRacer posted:

I think ASC had an article in the magazine about two/three months ago covering a feature shot on the 5DMKII. It looked gorgeous, but the moral of the story was that even though it wasn't a professional cinematographer who shot the movie it was still a photographer with a great eye. The camera isn't a short cut to greatness - you still need to know what you're doing.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

http://www.vincentlaforet.com/

It was a short called Reverie, made by Vincent Laforet right before the 5DMk2 came out. Laforet's forte I would say is arial photography of Manhattan. I think the short, as far as the cinematography, really doesn't add anything that a slideshow of still photographs set to music wouldn't do. But it does look drat snazzy. He's got a behind the scenes video somewhere which is really worth checking out (notice that even on a Canon 14mm 2.8, there is no handheld.)

SwedeRacer posted:

I have an Ex-1, its pretty good, though the backfocus on it doesn't work right if you use the onboard ND, so everythings out of focus. Its a pain in the rear end, but still worlds better then the HVX.

Mine back focuses to such a small degree that I fortunately don't have to bother with it. I probably wouldn't be brave enough to try it, but there is this possible solution to the problem: http://provideocoalition.com/index....sing_explained/

Magic Hate Ball posted:

Ah, so it's pretty much exactly what I thought it would be.

That's it. I also second china balls. Big time expensive movie lights can be more powerful or make it easier to control spill, but the quality of light from a six dollar china ball from Pier One is as good a quality of light as you are going to get for people's faces. And to paraphrase Roger Deakins, 80% of feature lighting is lighting for portraits.

I also agree that really learning cinematography is not something that can be done through books well at all. Being on set watching a good cinematographer, and when it's appropriate talking to them about where and why they are putting the lights and shadows where they are is invaluable. And then balance that with your own shooting where you are faced with your own situations and have to come up with your own solutions.

Rogetz
Jan 11, 2003
Alcohol and Nicotine every morning

While I agree that nothing beats practice, I do think that it's a good idea to learn what you need to be practicing. If you just hand a camera to somebody who has never used one before and tell them to make a movie it will look like garbage unless that person studies movies obsessively or is some kind of genius.

I really wish my high school video teacher taught us how to actually make good use of our lighting kits and went beyond the basic explanations of close-ups, mediums, and wides before setting us loose. Though in retrospect he doesn't seem like he did too much creative lighting work himself.

Slim Pickens
Jan 12, 2007



Grimey Drawer

^^^ Same at my high school. The video class teacher was the math teacher for that school and didn't really know a lot of technical stuff. He was more concerned with running the school news every morning, then assigning us to make a commercial or some other straight-forward project like that. I didn't really learn anything about lighting or other techniques until college.

pr0digal
Sep 12, 2008

Alan Rickman Overdrive

We never had light kits in high school =/ which kind of sucks because that is where I am lacking. At college we start out with Omni kits in intro and in Intermediate we use Arri 650 kits.

I really need to take a lighting class

The Affair
Jun 26, 2005

I hate snakes, Jock. I hate 'em!



dorkasaurus_rex posted:

\Admittedly, it's far from a pro camera, you can't really manually change settings or anything while shooting, it's very small so it's not steady at all, etc etc, but I think it's got a certain look to it that's quite cool.

Have you tried it with the most recent firmware that allows for manual exposure control while shooting?

That paired with the firmware hack that Tramm guy came up with seems like a lot of exciting things are coming up.

http://gizmodo.com/5299924/magic-la...is-av-potential

Rogetz
Jan 11, 2003
Alcohol and Nicotine every morning

Good resource for DVX100 users: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=101419

I just got my 100B in the mail today. First real camera and I'm just so excited about it, can't wait to start playing around with different camera settings and lights.

dorkasaurus_rex
Jun 10, 2005

gawrsh do you think any women will be there


The Affair posted:

Have you tried it with the most recent firmware that allows for manual exposure control while shooting?

That paired with the firmware hack that Tramm guy came up with seems like a lot of exciting things are coming up.

http://gizmodo.com/5299924/magic-la...is-av-potential

I don't have one, but I've toyed with it extensively, and welp, it's looking like I might have to plop down the $2,700 to buy it, because that looks amazing.

Steadiman
Jan 31, 2006

Hey...what kind of party is this? there's no booze and only one hooker!

silly sevens

First time I've spotted this thread, great idea and I'll try to contribute as much as I can. I'm currently DP-ing my second big feature and we're shooting it all on the RED, just got back from 10 days location work in Spain. We're on a grueling schedule but I'll do my best to add to the thread on any topic from motivated camera movement to gear specific (and Steadicam, ofcourse). If anyone has any RED specific questions I feel I'm pretty qualified to answer those too.

To give you an idea of the package we're shooting with, we're working with both 16gb flash cards and solid state drives. I have a lens package of primes from 16mm to 85mm (combination of Ultraprimes and Superspeeds). On occasion we also use an Angenieux zoom (25 to 250) and this sunday we'll be trying the new RED 25-85 zoom lens on a second unit rig. I tested the new anamorphic lenses but they came in too late to change the choice of format we made but I think my next feature will be anamorphic now, they're really neat and relatively light.

We have a huge grip and lighting package available and will be shooting with a Cascade crane this sunday, terribly exciting. It's kind of neat to have those kind of toys made available to you on your command, I'm not that used to being the big guy on set yet. Ofcourse there's a Steadicam/Segway available on set everyday though we haven't used it that much.

Slim Pickens
Jan 12, 2007



Grimey Drawer

Went and got most of the parts for one of these today. parts cost me only about $30, but I haven't gotten a tripod head for it yet.

SwedeRacer
Aug 2, 2004


Magic Hate Ball posted:

Ah, so it's pretty much exactly what I thought it would be. I remember a lot of references to them when I was studying Eyes Wide Shut, which makes sense; this was the same film that used boards of Christmas lights as ambient lighting.
The other thing to keep in mind when using china balls is to always have some black wrap handy. As pretty as they are the light spills everywhere. Throwing black wrap over the side you aren't using helps dramatically. I've also used black sweat shirts etc for the same effect. Hell, on some super small shoots I have had people hold desk lamps close to an actor and position their body (they were dressed in black) to flag as much light as possible off the back wall. Actually came out looking pretty good for a 30 second fix to a big problem.

The moral anyway is that you can use pretty much anything to get a good effect, especially if you're working in close ups. If you're on a super low budget save the real lights for the background (in fact, ALWAYS light the background and set first) and pull a china ball up close. Most low budget movies are shot fairly long lensed anyway to compensate for the lack of production design, so this ends up working. That said, lighting people in a master shot with just a china ball can occasionally be really tricky so I don't recommend that unless you have to other choice

Carefree Koala
Apr 5, 2006


Steadiman posted:

First time I've spotted this thread, great idea and I'll try to contribute as much as I can. I'm currently DP-ing my second big feature and we're shooting it all on the RED, just got back from 10 days location work in Spain. We're on a grueling schedule but I'll do my best to add to the thread on any topic from motivated camera movement to gear specific (and Steadicam, ofcourse). If anyone has any RED specific questions I feel I'm pretty qualified to answer those too.

Glad to see you here, Steadiman. That thread you had in GBS a while back of various on set anecdotes was one of the most entertaining things I've ever read on the forums. Good to hear you're finding some steady work as a DP.

How much of a chance did you get to play around with anamorphics on the Red? I've heard of some some cursory testing done by people at rental houses, but I haven't had a chance to talk to anyone who did more than throw on a few lenses and shoot some charts.

And someday the world deserves an all Steadicam/Segway movie. It just needs the right script, of course.

Steadiman
Jan 31, 2006

Hey...what kind of party is this? there's no booze and only one hooker!

silly sevens

Carefree Koala posted:


How much of a chance did you get to play around with anamorphics on the Red? I've heard of some some cursory testing done by people at rental houses, but I haven't had a chance to talk to anyone who did more than throw on a few lenses and shoot some charts.

And someday the world deserves an all Steadicam/Segway movie. It just needs the right script, of course.
Unfortunately I didn't get much of a chance to do more than a quick test as I was prepping my shooting kit. The owner of the rental house was just so excited to have the lenses in that he had to show me. I tried some face tests and did a bunch of screwing around with flares and lights in the lens to see how it handled it (really nicely by the way).

Once I wrap this production and have some more time, I intend to do an actual shooting test with the lenses and I might use them for a music video I'm shooting next month. I should know more then and be able to show some test footage.

Walnut Crunch
Feb 26, 2003



Jumping in to bring some P2 love. It's a great recording medium and with the E-class cards the price drops significantly.

I have to say I hate HDV. I got us to run away from that as fast as possible. Long GOP and heavy compression made shooting high contrast or high detail a nightmare. The breakup really bugged me. Really you've got to figure HDV is on its way out.

The P2 cards are bombproof, and there's nothing like having a rack of cards in your camera and being able to shoot all day. Especially when you are outside, and you've got your camera wrapped in rain gear.

I know people mess around with the EX1 and strapped on card readers and non-SxS cards. If they had something like that for P2 cameras I still wouldn't go near them. Too much risk.

Also some love for the HPX-500. It makes gorgeous pictures. We've had our footage at a bunch of different events and they can't believe that the look we show is straight out of camera without processing. And as far as the whole pixel shift debate goes...meh. There is something about the Panasonic image that is so pleasing. 1080p, projected on 24 foot screen, straight out of camera...just amazing.

Almost got our hands on a 3000 for an extended demo in the field, unfortunately the insurance for 85k kind of sunk us from taking the risk.

Soon our trusty 500 is off to the Arctic.

Here's some footage we threw together, again straight from the camera, no processing.

http://vimeo.com/2507639


Also Steadiman, have you ever worked with stabilizers on boats? We recently went out with some kenyon labs gyros, and they took the edge off for a pretty low price. Wondering if you've had any success with other equipment.


Also this steadicam guy is a golden god....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrTuW1O2eSg

Walnut Crunch fucked around with this message at Jun 27, 2009 around 21:32

Slim Pickens
Jan 12, 2007



Grimey Drawer

Walnut Crunch posted:

Also this steadicam guy is a golden god....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrTuW1O2eSg

Holy fuuuck, that guy is awesome. I wish you could see more of what it looked like, you can kinda see the shot on the monitor on the bottom right.

Walnut Crunch
Feb 26, 2003



Slim Pickens posted:

Holy fuuuck, that guy is awesome. I wish you could see more of what it looked like, you can kinda see the shot on the monitor on the bottom right.

Warning you have to actually suffer through Eurovision music to see the shot...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FoLR-So1no

You can minimize the suffering by going to 2:41 in the clip. They use a bit of zoom in post to smooth the transition, but geez.

Walnut Crunch fucked around with this message at Jun 28, 2009 around 16:04

flyer
Jan 22, 2005

One Wheeled Bandit

I'm a RED data manager, working towards being a full-on DIT, though coming more from the computer side of things it's an interesting journey.

Our gear package is coming in over the next few days for a TV show that's being shot, a few RED bodies, likely a set of Cooke S4s, and I got to play with the Angie Optimo 24-290 two days ago - I'm glad I'm not often in the position to have to deal with that sucker when we're losing the light. It weighs like 13kg.

Walnut Crunch posted:

Jumping in to bring some P2 love.

I worked on a feature with two HVX3000s recently, they are nice cameras and can make some amazing images, however they are perhaps more built for ENG than they are for theatrical film work. A full RED kit is probably the same price as a full HVX3000 kit after you get batteries and lenses and pay me and sort out post etc, but I think the RED makes nicer images, as well as the raw format video as opposed to having to set up your matrix beforehand and being tied to whatever mistakes or successes you had while filming. I guess it's not so bad as all that but once you have the flexibility it's hard to let it go easily.


Also that steadicam is amazing. I love watching his 1st AC chasing after him with the FF remote in hand too, haha. That looks like fun.

If anyone has any questions about RED post or what it's like erasing your negatives every day (after I back them up of course) feel free to fire away.

Walnut Crunch
Feb 26, 2003



Yeah if anyone has questions on:
P2 workflow
Final Cut Server
Panasonic HPX-500
AVCHD and the canon hf11 (our underwater camera)
Various delivery formats (we shoot 1080p, yet every producer asks us for a DVD of raw footage or uncompressed, both of which I'm sure will make their editors cry)

The Affair
Jun 26, 2005

I hate snakes, Jock. I hate 'em!



I can probably do the Canon XL2, most Final Cut Pro questions, and lots of basic-to-intermediate After Effects CS3 questions.

Do we want to do the demoreel/portfolio page exchange thing?

pr0digal
Sep 12, 2008

Alan Rickman Overdrive

Well this thread has gone far over my level of expertise, but i'll stick around to see what I can learn. I can offer up help on the DVX-100A 24P, the HVX-200 and limited on the VX2000. As far as editing goes, I've been working with Final Cut Pro for about 4-5 years now. I'm only an upcoming junior in college, but I'd be happy to answer any questions.

*edit* and the Bolex Rex I guess, haven't used the thing for a while.

Also, as far as the whole HDV vs DVCPRO HD thing goes. I've shot on both P2 cards (on the HVX-200) and tape based HD (on the XH-A1) and I think that for as far as me and my fellow classmates are concerned (that is: college students without a whole ton of money) that HDV is the way to go for us buying personal cameras to do personal work on. P2 cards are not cheap, especially for a college student like myself. While yes, the time spent in capturing HDV is a massive pain in the rear end, it will save me some money and produce comparable results. Obviously, I can't speak for high end productions, but if given the chance I would probably buy an XH-A1.

However, if this was a perfect world I would go for a RED camera

pr0digal fucked around with this message at Jun 29, 2009 around 03:16

SwedeRacer
Aug 2, 2004


I personally hate HDV so I'll stick with the EX1. HDV can be a bitch and a half in post, while the EX1 is pretty much the easiest thing in the world.

As far as cost goes: Protip: Don't by Sony's SxS card. There are these MxM duders who hold the same type of memory cards in all your nikon/canon still cameras and fit in the SxS slot. I don't have my camera with me and I'm terrible about remembering exact card names and stuff, but the adapters cost about 50-100 bucks and the memory cards about the same. You need to use type 6 cards though and you cant shoot highspeed on them, but thats not really an issue because you can just use the 8gb SxS the camera comes with for that. Still, its 1/4 of Sonys price.

Slim Pickens
Jan 12, 2007



Grimey Drawer

anybody have experience using a Firestore with a Canon camcorder, like the XH-A1? I'm wondering if using has the same workflow as P2 or something comparable and I'm assuming it still records in HDV format.

I'd love a panasonic, but I didn't really feel like throwing down nearly 10 grand on a field I'm still a little unfamiliar with.

Walnut Crunch
Feb 26, 2003



I don't get the love for HDV. I really, really hate it. It just cannot handle detail or movement without getting mushy. Granted I haven't seen Canon HDV, but still it's 4:2:0, long gop, HDV. Blech.

The difference between HDV and DVCPRO HD is quite noticeable. At least Sony Z1 style HDV.

And as far as the roll your own memory for EX1's. It just seems to be too big of a risk. If you don't really care if you glitch, I guess it is a great way to save some bucks, but man, I would never take a chance that my recording media was any less then the most dependable.

Steadiman
Jan 31, 2006

Hey...what kind of party is this? there's no booze and only one hooker!

silly sevens

Walnut Crunch posted:


Also Steadiman, have you ever worked with stabilizers on boats? We recently went out with some kenyon labs gyros, and they took the edge off for a pretty low price. Wondering if you've had any success with other equipment.


Also this steadicam guy is a golden god....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrTuW1O2eSg
I have worked with gyros and they are very handy on boats. I'm assuming you used the K6 gyros. They are officially made for photography but we found out many years ago that they are perfect for Steadicam in the wind and even hand held can be helped tremendously by them. They're not superpowerful but you don't really need that anyway or else you wouldn't be able to pan/tilt. The only downsides are the power drain and the noise so any gyro shots are generally MOS.

An even cheaper way to create a similar effect is to use something we call Antlers. Technically it's an inertial stabilizer but in reality it's just a long metal rod with small weights(between 2 and 5 lbs) on both ends. It's actually pretty easy to create your own (official manufactured ones cost $1000!), just make sure that the mounting point is exactly on the center of gravity. You then mount it on top or bottom of the camera so it sticks out on the sides. The result of this is that it stabilizes the roll axis (which is the most distracting effect of handheld) because it extends the center of gravity and makes the whole camera more inert and resistant to wind. Downside is that it makes the camera considerably heavier and also you have to be aware that there is stuff sticking out, it's very easy to knock people out with it. It's not quite as powerful as gyros but much easier to use.

Another simple and quick method to make a camera more stable is to just add some weight on top, above where you hold it (so you hold the camera in the middle between the weights and the camera). This also extends the center of gravity more outward to where you can touch it. The further out the CG is, the more stable the camera will be (the whole principle behind Steadicam is extending the CG to where you can touch it). This is more of an improvised Doggicam and works great for running shots.

The Segway/Handsfree shot is great. You can achieve some awesome effects by stepping on or off it. I've just done a shot where I step off a crane and on the Handsfree to continue the shot through woods and then end up at a house where I step off again to continue the shot inside. Really neat stuff and a great way to create those awesome "impossible shots" that directors love so much!

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this


Steadiman posted:

An even cheaper way to create a similar effect is to use something we call Antlers...

Isn't this basically what the original Steadicam was, except back to front instead of side to side?

Slim Pickens
Jan 12, 2007



Grimey Drawer

I got okay'ed to record my Ranger company doing a jump tomorrow! I'm pretty stoked about it. I have one guy jumping with a ContourHD on his ruck looking up so you can see the airplane falling away and watch the chute deploy, and I'll be able to tape three different jumps in one day from inside the plane with an XH-A1. I'll have to wait for S-5 to clear the footage before I can post it or anything, but that shouldn't be a problem considering nothing major's changed about jumping for the past 40 years.

The Affair
Jun 26, 2005

I hate snakes, Jock. I hate 'em!



A guy named Slim Pickens talking about jumping from an airplane is oddly appropriate. I hope you'll go up (and down) with a cowboy hat.

Slim Pickens
Jan 12, 2007



Grimey Drawer

Unfortunately I gotta wear a helmet the whole time.

Slim Pickens fucked around with this message at Jul 3, 2009 around 21:44

Slim Pickens
Jan 12, 2007



Grimey Drawer

Alright, the edit's not quite done yet, but here's a clip from the rucksack cam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ7P9U9R57U

I'll post the edit in a couple days.

Rogetz
Jan 11, 2003
Alcohol and Nicotine every morning

Not exactly a cinematography question (but I don't want to see this thread die and it's not like there are any other filmmaking threads out there) but I just wrapped shooting on the short I'm making. One of the scenes takes place in a liquor store, and we happened to be shooting there during business hours on Fourth of July weekend. Needless to say we had to get in and out as fast as possible. We ended up using a 3-camera setup, with the two close-up cams shooting at 24p and 30p pulldown respectively. The master camera however was shooting at 60i and using a pulldown. For something that's destined mainly for Viddler and being part of a demo reel, I don't mind shooting interlacing vs progressive. The problem though is that when I look at the master footage in my editing suite (Premiere Pro CS3) I'm getting crazy edge tear for even the smallest motions. Obviously no good.

Is there a different process I should be using to capture the interlaced footage? Is there a program I should run it through after capturing to smooth the motion out? Or am I just boned? I'm still getting used to Premiere's workflow, since this is the first time I've used it with anything better than consumer grade camcorders where it didn't really matter what I did because it looked like poo poo anyway.

Aside from that the footage looks loving fantastic and I'm in love with my new Panasonic. Can't wait to put the finished product up.

Sagacity
May 2, 2003
Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

Have you tried opening the clip's properties and setting the "interpret footage" option correctly? It allows you to specify how deinterlacing should be done (not at all, lower field first, upper field first). If you don't apply any deinterlacing you will get those tears.

Rogetz
Jan 11, 2003
Alcohol and Nicotine every morning

That did the trick. Thanks!

Snap Your Fingers
Dec 16, 2006
I've been insightful for about 17 years.

The Affair posted:

Do we want to do the demoreel/portfolio page exchange thing?

As a recent college grad I'd be interested in sharing demo reels and whatnot. Mine: http://www.phileisenberg.com/Site/Demo%20Reel.html. Forgive the fact that the site was made in iWeb; I don't bill myself as a web designer.

I think I just got a gig as an intern for a short film being shot nearby! I'll get to assist the DP and act as camera op/1st AC/whatever they need. Hopefully saying this won't jinx it.

pr0digal
Sep 12, 2008

Alan Rickman Overdrive

I really should get a demo reel together, all my work is floating around in various places around the net. Bringing it all together is probably a good idea. I also have a video related internship...kinda. I make instructional videos for a software company. So it is editing, just a different kind of editing.

Slim Pickens
Jan 12, 2007



Grimey Drawer

Finally finished up my edit of the C-130 jump. I've been slacking on it pretty bad. I'd like more exterior footage of the airplane, but that'll have to wait a bit. Otherwise, I think it turned out alright. Let me know what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSsKFF1lCMc

Rogetz
Jan 11, 2003
Alcohol and Nicotine every morning


Really cool stuff here, footage looks great. Did you get commissioned to do this or what?

Slim Pickens
Jan 12, 2007



Grimey Drawer

I just asked if it was alright, and they said yes. It wasn't a problem since I was still in, but trying to do it now that I'm out would be much more difficult I think.

mojo1701a
Oct 8, 2008

Oh, yeah. Loud and clear. Emphasis on LOUD!
~ David Lee Roth

For Canadian camera goons (ok, SW Ontario...)

A friend of mine got into a two-week assistant camera training workshop at Sheridan college for the fall. If anyone's interested, I can talk to him and get the info. I'd join him, but I have no money, and I'm *this* close to finishing up my BA anyway.

He's excited because after this, he gets IATSE certification.

Rogetz
Jan 11, 2003
Alcohol and Nicotine every morning

Super psyched to be done with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWxqkAUdSew
We had to do a 3-camera shoot in the liquor store, and unfortunately two of the cameras were not nearly as high quality as the third. Luckily that isn't a big deal for straight internet viewing.

This is the first project that I've done since graduating, and I am very pleased with the results. Feel free to knock me off of my cloud and rip me a new rear end in a top hat.

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Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this


Rogetz posted:

Feel free to knock me off of my cloud and rip me a new rear end in a top hat.

Ok.

It's not very good. The pacing feels really off, for one thing. The first two scenes are fairly slow, and then all of a sudden a climax, and then the last scene has far too much of him walking for the sudden appearance of the lottery ticket to have its effect. The acting isn't bad, so there's no big fault there. Most of the shots were just way too tight, especially in the bus stop scene. I got a pretty severe "film student" vibe from a few things: the obnoxious placement of the lotto ticket in the first scene (not to mention the subsequent zoom), the awkward handling of the thief overhearing their conversation in the liquor store (the viewer is given absolutely no clues that this is the case, and I'm actually just assuming that it is), and the student-film-y knife fight. Also UGH NON-ANAMORPHIC.

Well, try again, you can only go up from here.

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