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SquareDog
Feb 7, 2004

silent but deadly

The RED is the best choice for narrative usually, but only if you have people on set who know how to use it, and know how to do the work flow after production, during editing. Sure people gotta learn but there must be at least one person that knows how to do everything if you get stuck. If that's not the case then I'd go with the HPX 500. It's very fast 2/3 chip with a nice standard zoom lens on it and the work work flow is a piece of cake compared to the RED. You won't get quite the same depth of field as the RED but it will be better than the HVX 200.


vvvvvvvvvv It's a T3, but it's still very shallow due to the sensor size.

SquareDog fucked around with this message at Oct 7, 2009 around 00:21

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Momonari kun
Apr 6, 2002
Yes, you needed video.

Well, if shallow depth of field is the most important, then you have no choice but to shoot on the Red.

What's the aperture like on the 18-50?

Edit: Just checked and compared with the Panasonic. You'll definitely get shallower depth of field even using zooms on the RED.

Momonari kun fucked around with this message at Oct 6, 2009 around 23:55

Andraste
Oct 22, 2005


Momonari kun posted:



Edit: Just checked and compared with the Panasonic. You'll definitely get shallower depth of field even using zooms on the RED.



Good to know, we will be using the RED then.

As far as knowing how to use it, we had a RED DIT come in an give us a class on it; and I know at least our main camera OP has used it before, and the AC knows how to build it.

I'm not sure who's editing our project, but if all else fails, I know how to do it. I don't have all the software, but I'm sure I can get my hands on it.

butterypancakes
Aug 19, 2006

mmm pancakes


Andraste posted:

I don't have all the software, but I'm sure I can get my hands on it.

RedCine is available on their website or could just do it all with Final Cut Studio.

SquareDog
Feb 7, 2004

silent but deadly

Hey butterypanckaes, I won't get to the meeting tomorrow and I'm sad about it because I totally wanted to pitch some of our dumber ideas for the shorts.

butterypancakes
Aug 19, 2006

mmm pancakes


Hrm, I'm starting to question someone's commitment to sparkle motion...


No worries, I'm pretty sure I can handle the Evil Santa pitch.

Frost
Dec 6, 2003
Don't let the Frost bite you

butterypancakes posted:

Hrm, I'm starting to question someone's commitment to sparkle motion...

I always get strange looks from my friends when I use that quote even though they all saw and enjoyed the movie. Good to see someone else use it, that means either I'm not weird or you are too!

SquareDog
Feb 7, 2004

silent but deadly

my e-mail is mansuit@msn.com which is a reference to a famous scene in Donnie Darko but NO ONE has ever said "Oh, like Donnie Darko?"

Andraste
Oct 22, 2005


SquareDog posted:

my e-mail is mansuit@msn.com which is a reference to a famous scene in Donnie Darko but NO ONE has ever said "Oh, like Donnie Darko?"

I use the sparkle motion quote a decent bit, and maybe it's just the people I surround myself with, but they seem to recognize it.

I wouldn't recognize mansuit though.

on a different note, I just watched this documentary, and if any of you guys are Wong Kar-Wai fans, or cinematographers; you should check out this documentary on Chris Doyle.

http://www.joost.com/272ij43/t/Chri...ions#id=272ij43

Momonari kun
Apr 6, 2002
Yes, you needed video.

Christopher Doyle rocks. I watched that lovely Hero movie like five times just because he shot it.

SquareDog
Feb 7, 2004

silent but deadly

Hey man, don't be takin' smack about Hero.

York_M_Chan
Sep 11, 2003



I just created a Facebook Page for my films. I am no cinematographer, I shoot my own stuff mainly because I haven't found someone with whom I am compatible.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/p...36181015?ref=ts

Dr. Fishopolis
Aug 31, 2004

ROBOT

new reel!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvFN6vRlvKY&fmt=22

I either directed or shot everything in it (or both), so please ask questions and let me know if there's anything glaringly wrong (or right).

Andraste
Oct 22, 2005


Dr. Fishopolis posted:

new reel!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvFN6vRlvKY&fmt=22

I either directed or shot everything in it (or both), so please ask questions and let me know if there's anything glaringly wrong (or right).

I like the lighting in the clip with the men coming through the wall, what was that shot for?

FloatingPoop
Aug 15, 2001

Cuz it's all so fuckin hysterical


Do any of you ever enter contests like the ones held at http://www.poptent.net and http://zooppa.com/ ?

Momonari kun
Apr 6, 2002
Yes, you needed video.

Ok, I know this isn't a cinematography problem, but I really need some help with that video file I've had issues with. Would someone be willing to receive a video file from me and take a look at it and try to convert my EX-3 footage to Quicktime ProRes/AIFF? I'm running out of ideas, patience, and time. Nothing is working for me, and I'm just getting frustrated.

butterypancakes
Aug 19, 2006

mmm pancakes


Senduit it to me and I'll see what I can do.

Momonari kun
Apr 6, 2002
Yes, you needed video.

butterypancakes posted:

Senduit it to me and I'll see what I can do.

I found a possible solution on another website, but if it doesn't work, I'll send you a file.

Marxist Glue
Jan 12, 2007

GLUE GLUEEEEE GLUUUUUUEEE, Karl Marx! GLUUUEEE GLUE GLLLUUUUUEEEEEE!!!!


Hello fellow filmmakers!

Any other Canon XL2 users in here? What sort of presets do you use?

I'm trying to put together some good presets for the XL2 and I'm just wondering if there are any other XL2 users on here that might have some good ones.

The Affair
Jun 26, 2005

I hate snakes, Jock. I hate 'em!



I'm an XL2 user.

After downloading the stock "Crush the blacks, up the contrast and saturation," "bleach bypass," and "dramatic black and white" presets, I went and played around a lot with those three to see how they were setup in the camera.

At this point I change the presets kind of on the fly when I'm out in the field.

There's a preset manager, and library of pre-made stuff at this thread on DVINFO.net.

butterypancakes
Aug 19, 2006

mmm pancakes


I use to edit a lot of XL2 footage, how much difference do those presets make?

Even if you don't have some sweet color grading skills couldn't you just replicate most of that with Magic Bullet?

The Affair
Jun 26, 2005

I hate snakes, Jock. I hate 'em!



Well of course, you can certainly do anything these days with computers, but the closer you can get the footage out of the camera to be what you want, the quicker your post will go. Also, the best quality you can achieve off the bat will make the changes you do make later look all the better.

Afterall, plenty of people still shoot still and motion picture photography with specialized gels, lights, filters, and film stock.

I was shooting in a basement that was dressed to look like a skeezy bar, and I could certainly do it in AE, but the director and I had previously discussed that we wanted there to be a decidedly green tint to everything. The preset manager on the camera gave me that look almost immediately.

Marxist Glue
Jan 12, 2007

GLUE GLUEEEEE GLUUUUUUEEE, Karl Marx! GLUUUEEE GLUE GLLLUUUUUEEEEEE!!!!


The Affair posted:

I'm an XL2 user.

After downloading the stock "Crush the blacks, up the contrast and saturation," "bleach bypass," and "dramatic black and white" presets, I went and played around a lot with those three to see how they were setup in the camera.

At this point I change the presets kind of on the fly when I'm out in the field.

There's a preset manager, and library of pre-made stuff at this thread on DVINFO.net.

Great! Thanks for that link.

I haven't really messed with presets a whole lot, I've always done alot of messing with the look during post, and I'm about to start production on a short dramatic film that needs alot of drastic shadow and changes throughout the film. I want to try and give the presets a try this time around and see if I can give myself more of a break during post this time around.

Spaceman Love
Jun 19, 2003

come on take a trip in my rocket ship

butterypancakes posted:

I use to edit a lot of XL2 footage, how much difference do those presets make?

Even if you don't have some sweet color grading skills couldn't you just replicate most of that with Magic Bullet?

The output of cameras like the XL2 is very heavily compressed, heavily subsampled, and only 8bit. That limits how far you can push your image around before it starts breaking up and looking awful. Not only that, but depending on how you have your color set in camera, you're throwing out a ton of additional data. Setting the color in-camera, however, does these color corrections to the raw image, after it comes off the CCD and before it hits the compression, so it's going to look way better and you'll be able to push it much farther. Obviously this limits you in that you need to know what it should look like before you shoot, and in that once you've shot it, the color is "baked in," and you have very little latitude to alter it. Still, this is pretty much the recommended way to deal with color with consumer and prosumer cameras (and still many professional ones).

Dr. Fishopolis
Aug 31, 2004

ROBOT

If you're going for a cinematic in-camera look, I'd also consider a 1/4 warm black promist filter. I've found that a little black diffusion goes a long way when you're shooting DV, and can help prevent ugly macro blocking in the blacks.

Obviously, if you intend on doing color in post you want as flat a look as possible, but Spaceman is right in that the compression doesn't leave you a lot to work with anyway.

The Affair
Jun 26, 2005

I hate snakes, Jock. I hate 'em!



So while we're on the subject of color before compression, have any of you had good or bad experience with Vortex Media Warm Cards?

I shoot Sony at work and it tends to come off a little blue. However, I'm not sure they are worth spending the seventy five dollars for the video set on. If worse comes to worse I typically will stick a piece of CTB over the lens and white balance through it to get something a little warmer. I had to shoot an interview outside on just the grayest, rainy, cold October day imaginable last week, and only by doing the aforementioned trick did I get anything that I considered interesting.

Spaceman Love
Jun 19, 2003

come on take a trip in my rocket ship

Yeah, that's a pretty standard way of doing things. You can just get a piece of bluish paper and it will do the same thing, or you can manually set the white balance to get the same effect.

Dr. Fishopolis
Aug 31, 2004

ROBOT

The Affair posted:

So while we're on the subject of color before compression, have any of you had good or bad experience with Vortex Media Warm Cards?

Can you dial in a custom balance? I can't imagine spending 75 bucks on special balance cards for something that takes 4 seconds to select in camera or do in post.

The Affair
Jun 26, 2005

I hate snakes, Jock. I hate 'em!



Not that I've been able to find. You can certainly tint the picture with the presets like I mentioned before, but it takes some time spent in the menus.

Mozzie
Oct 26, 2007


I don't know about other cameras but the scene files in the HXV200 allow for setting the color temperature as a value in the file.

Alasdair Crawfish
Nov 18, 2006

Hanging just next to your door in the hallway is a painting of an EXQUISITE WIZARD. Your mother collects these awful things IRONICALLY.


welp decided to pick up filmmaking as a hobby again, and finally filmed something for the first time in years for some online festival

criteria is: a a "monster mishaps" movie under 30 seconds

http://www.filmfights.com/current/7...la-s-Wacky-Date

(it's as wacky as the title suggests)

constructive criticism? I haven't made anything in forever so I know there's lots of stuff I need to improve on!

Dekzar
Jun 9, 2006
Like all good things, it starts with a monkey.

Hi all -

Can't believe I *just* noticed this thread. I feel like I've missed so much.

Anyway - I'm a photographer who's just recently started getting into video. I've done a fair amount of 3D as a hobby, but only recently picked up live action stuff.

I was mostly curious if there were any good resources out there for getting involved with other filmmakers/groups. I've done some poking around here and there, but haven't had much luck and was just curious if anyone knew of a good place to get your name out or go looking for projects to join up with. Any suggestions?

Dr. Fishopolis
Aug 31, 2004

ROBOT

Alasdair Crawfish posted:

constructive criticism? I haven't made anything in forever so I know there's lots of stuff I need to improve on!

I don't really know where to start because every element is basically as wrong as it can possibly be.

Do you watch a lot of movies?

Rogetz
Jan 11, 2003
Alcohol and Nicotine every morning

Dr. Fishopolis posted:

I don't really know where to start because every element is basically as wrong as it can possibly be.

It's not great but I think this is a bit of a stretch.

The writing and acting are really stilted and awkward, certainly. Work on how to convey a message without using exposition. "You sound like a vampire. I hate vampires" could have easily been cut and replaced with a visual cue. Dracula would know to disguise himself as a human. This is just one example.

Your camera angles are also pretty wonky and generally boring. Read a book or two on cinematography and watch a lot of movies with the intent of analyzing them.

That said, the basic story elements are solid, and you hit the punchline well. Comedy is all about timing and you managed to get it there.

The best advice I can give is study a lot of movies, and keep cranking out shorts. It's the only way to learn.



On another note, let's talk about lighting. Specifically, motivated vs unmotivated lighting. Say I want hard, raking Noir style shadows in a scene, is that going to play if most other scenes have "realistic" lighting? Night shots especially trip me up because it's obvious that all the light you need is NOT coming from the moon and any practicals you might have, especially if I need some really directional fill or spots on certain foreground or background objects. How do you deal with multiple shadows from one object if you don't have enough light to use diffusement?

Dr. Fishopolis
Aug 31, 2004

ROBOT

Rogetz posted:

On another note, let's talk about lighting. Specifically, motivated vs unmotivated lighting. Say I want hard, raking Noir style shadows in a scene, is that going to play if most other scenes have "realistic" lighting?

If the story warrants the change in mood, then sure. The only rule to that sort of decision is "Can I get away with it?"

You'll notice in old noir films the closeups are always super soft key with a huge punchy hair light, then they cut to the wide and it's all hard light and long shadows. They get away with it by consistently using the same lighting "language", even though it doesn't necessarily make motivational sense.

quote:

Night shots especially trip me up because it's obvious that all the light you need is NOT coming from the moon and any practicals you might have, especially if I need some really directional fill or spots on certain foreground or background objects. How do you deal with multiple shadows from one object if you don't have enough light to use diffusement?

"Night lighting" is a kind of broad statement, can you talk about a specific scene you're having trouble with? If you have multiple strong shadows off the same object your light is probably too hard and too low. Generally, moody night scenes are lit very soft and then filtered in post.

Andraste
Oct 22, 2005


for the night scenes in the last short I did we threw up some HMIs and balanced to tungsten light, so the lighting we used came out very blue.

I haven't seen the shots in post yet, but I have high hopes for the night time , outdoors scene.

SquareDog
Feb 7, 2004

silent but deadly

Wouldn't it have been cheaper to use Tungsten lights with CTB for night shots? HMI's are way more expensive to rent.

Dr. Fishopolis
Aug 31, 2004

ROBOT

SquareDog posted:

Wouldn't it have been cheaper to use Tungsten lights with CTB for night shots? HMI's are way more expensive to rent.

You lose around 2 stops with full CTB, so if you go tungsten you need a loving ton of it. It can be done, but it's a hot, inefficient pain in the rear end. Kinos are a cheaper alternative to HMI, but they're super soft and short throw.

If you only have one color of light in the shot, you can use whatever you want and fudge the color in camera or post.

butterypancakes
Aug 19, 2006

mmm pancakes


Wouldn't you need a gently caress ton of Kinos to do anything worth while EXT NIGHT? Tungsten sounds like a better choice, 10ks are a good time.

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Dr. Fishopolis
Aug 31, 2004

ROBOT

butterypancakes posted:

Wouldn't you need a gently caress ton of Kinos to do anything worth while EXT NIGHT? Tungsten sounds like a better choice, 10ks are a good time.

definitely, and unless there's a super strong moon out, you shouldn't have to bother with gels, just blue it up in post.

edit: you don't really want to run 10k of tungsten off a genny though, it would be cheaper to get a smaller gen and use HMIs. the reason they're used for EXT scenes has more to do with efficiency than color temp.

Dr. Fishopolis fucked around with this message at Nov 14, 2009 around 00:13

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