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I'm going to be buying a new video camera soon and while I've pretty much decided what I want, I figured I'd run it by all of you so you can tell me why my choice is bad and I should feel bad. I'm a railfan and as such I will primarily be using this camera for shooting trains. The features I'm looking for are: 4K resolution at 60 fps. Decent low-light performance. I want to be able to shoot at dusk without a ton of noise. Smooth powered high magnification zoom (10x minimum). Good autofocus. Fast setup. Unlimited recording time and good battery life (occasional ~3 hour live events). My current camera is a camcorder and I'm biased towards sticking with a camcorder primarily because of the zoom, record time, autofocus, battery life and setup time concerns. I would love to be able to go with a GH5 for the superior quality which can be achieved with it but I think I would be frustrated with some of its limitations and I don't know how much I'd want to invest in glass. The camera I am most seriously considering at this time is the Panasonic AG-DVX200 as it satisfies most of my goals and is only about $1000 more than I am really comfortable with spending. My intended spend on this was much lower when I started shopping but I've come to realize that to get a camera that comes close to doing everything I want I will have to pay. I was also considering the HC-X1, but based on several days of watching sample clips on Youtube and Vimeo I think the extra low light performance of the larger sensor in the AG-DVX200 is worth the extra ~$600. Any thoughts regarding other camera I should consider, or reasons why I should buy the GH5 anyway in spite of the concerns I stated?
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Aug 21, 2017 03:43
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| # ¿ Apr 25, 2024 13:30 |
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So I have a problem I'm hoping you folks can offer some advise on. I'm a railfan (yes, that is a problem, but not the one I'm trying to solve) and I like to take videos of trains. I am also a sperg, so I want those videos to be the best they can possibly be. The problem that I am running into is ground vibration. Trains are heavy, and when they pass they shake the ground. I shoot from a tripod because I want a very stable shot, and I want to be able to do smooth steady pans and high zoom approach shots, often in windy conditions. I recently upgraded from an aluminum Manfrotto tripod that I've had for about 7 years to a Sachtler head and Miller Solo carbon fiber legs due to frustration with the amount of vibration issues I was having. This upgrade was based on a fair amount of online research which indicated that carbon fiber should better at absorbing vibrations than aluminum. It has almost completely eliminated the wind vibrations, however it has had the opposite effect on the ground vibrations, which have gotten quite a bit worse. I suppose this make sense, as a more solid rigid tripod would naturally transmit vibrations to the camera better. So now I'm unsure if I want to keep the carbon fiber legs. I considered wood, as I've heard that's the best material for absorbing vibrations, however a wooden tripod would be about 3x the weight, about 30% longer when folded, and take longer to set up due to the multiple thumb screws and need for a spreader. Speed and collapsed length are more of a concern for me than weight, though it is a factor as well. I am often setting up in a hurry and a slow tripod can mean missing a shot. Additionally, I mount my camera to my tripod then put it across the back-seat footwell of my car when chasing a train to the next shot location, so an excessively long tripod would mean the camera is bumping up against the opposite side of the back seat. Are there any options for reducing camera vibrations which can be put into a tripod assembly, between the head and the legs, or the head and the camera? I've seen rubber disks that can be placed under the feet to absorb vibrations, but that just adds more setup time and I'm often shooting on uneven surfaces in the snow, dirt, and weeds, where I have to stab my tripod legs down through obstructions, so placing disks on the ground would not be feasible. The vibrations in this case are primarily sharp vertical shocks, and as such I don't think a gimbal head would help. My camera's image stabilization also doesn't do much to help, as it doesn't seem to be able to respond quickly enough to dampen the shocks. This may be too unique of a problem for a good solution to exist, and the obvious answer is "shoot further from the tracks" but that's often not possible.
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Mar 21, 2018 04:35
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Thanks Powderific, those are interesting options which I was not aware of. I may see if I can get Sorbothane buffers I can make into tripod feet first and see if that works, but if it's not effective those wire rope setups will almost certainly be more than adequate. I think if I went with 6 rope sets on a lighter load I'd get enough shock damping without excessive instability for longer shots, and the motion I did get would be slower and easier for the camera's image stabilization to counteract.
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Mar 21, 2018 14:16
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BonoMan posted:What camera are you using? It might be best to find way to get an actual stabilizer in use. I'm using a GH5. When you say an actual stabilizer what do you mean?
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Mar 21, 2018 16:49
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I'm using miller solo legs which have a capacity of 44lbs, so I could definitely hang a substantial weight from them, but the amplitude of the vibrations from a train passing are pretty drastic. In fact, I'd classify them more as shocks than vibrations, since the biggest issues come from the wheels passing over a joint in the rails, or a flat spot on a wheel. It's a pounding effect and you can feel it through heavy boots. I think adding weight would help with wind, but it would probably increase the impact of the ground shaking.
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Mar 21, 2018 17:13
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I don't think a gimbal would work for me. I tend to shoot the train approaching, then quickly pan around and shoot it receding. A Gimbal would still be catching up after the pan and I'd have to cut more of the video out as a result. I'm leaning towards the wire rope isolators, but I'm concerned that they will be too prone to tilting. Really what I need is damping of major excursions in the Z axis, with only very minor damping in X and Y. Most of the ground shaking is Z axis. Ultimately if I could put a wire rope isolator on each foot of the tripod, with a rod through their center holes to prevent much movement in the X and Y axes that would probably be ideal. I haven't figure out how to make that work yet though. I think if I mount the isolator between the head and the tripod, or the head and the camera, I'm going to have issues with rotation about the Z axis on fast pans.
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Mar 22, 2018 01:20
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So I'm still exploring the idea of using wire rope stabilizers on the tripod feet. Haven't pulled the trigger on them yet as I haven't found a good source that sells the individual units for a reasonable price directly to consumers. Here's an example of the type of shocks/vibration I'm trying to eliminate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhaYuA4eI9w&t=438s I have experimented with using warp stabilizer (not on this clip) and it does help. I think part of the problem was also the frozen ground, as with things warming up this week the vibrations aren't as bad. These Miller carbon legs are definitely worse than my smaller aluminum Manfrotto when it comes to transmitting these shocks to the camera, but it would be hard to give up the superior performance against wind-induced vibrations.
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Mar 28, 2018 17:08
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BonoMan posted:Looks like rolling shutter isn't helping on that either. My vote is still for a handheld gyro gimbal unless it just absolutely has to be on a tripod. Old callback here, but I've found that the use of a set of Celestron vibration supression pads (https://www.amazon.com/Celestron-93503-Vibration-Suppression-Pads/dp/B0000665V7) and the detailed analysis options on warp stabilizer has made a pretty big difference for my vibration issues. Rolling shutter is still a problem, but I can't afford a global shutter camera so I'll just have to live with it. On an unrelated note, does anyone have any opinions about how to get better color out of the GH5 at night? It seems like no matter what I do my shots end up with an ugly orange cast to them, and I don't seem to be good enough at color correction (or 150 mbps 4K60p doesn't leave enough room to push it) to get the colors looking natural. I'm generally shooting at ISO 1600, which is pretty much the limit with the GH5 without unacceptable levels of noise, and I know that hurts dynamic range and color accuracy as well. I have one LED light panel, and I've ordered a second, but it's difficult to light a subject as big as a train with small portable lights so I am generally reliant on ambient street and security lighting which is usually very orange. I've tried compensating by pushing white balance way down but it still comes out more orange/yellow than the lighting appears in person. Maybe this is a question for the editing topic, but I thought maybe there would be a better way to get accurate color balance in-camera that I'm not familiar with.
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Jul 26, 2018 17:24
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powderific posted:Sodium vapor lamps are like 90% yellow light so they're always gonna be tough to correct. Can you set a custom white balance with a white card on the GH5? That'd probably get you closer at least. I can set a custom white balance yeah. The main issue I think I'd have is I'm usually shooting a decent distance from my subject (at least 15-20 feet) and the lens I use at night is a 17.5mm prime, so it would take something the size of a bedsheet to white balance off of near where my subject will be. I guess that wouldn't matter if the lights are behind me, but that's not always the case. I'll try getting a large white card and experiment a bit. The other thing I tried was an expodisc, but I find it really doesn't work at all at night. Edit: Or, you know, I could just walk my camera over to where I'm trying to set white balance haha. Disgruntled Bovine fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Jul 26, 2018 |
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Jul 26, 2018 23:19
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powderific posted:The big issue is that low pressure sodium vapor lamps only really output the orange-y lights so there literally isn't any other colors of light available. It's not like tungsten lights where there's the most intensity towards the yellow end of things but you have lots of other color light too. Good point, probably explains why trying to fix it in post doesn't really work.
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Jul 26, 2018 23:38
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So the last time I posted in here I was looking for advice on how to deal with ground vibrations transmitted into a tripod by passing trains. This is still a problem but my general solution has been to get further from the tracks and it has worked overall. The advice I was given at the time was to try a gimbal but for various reasons I elected not to go that route. Now I am reconsidering not so much to counteract ground vibrations but to give myself more options for certain types of shots. Back in May I flew out to Wyoming for 2 weeks to chase and film the return of the Union Pacific railroad's "Big Boy" steam locomotive # 4014 after 58 years in retirement. It was a fantastic trip but it definitely showed me the limitations of my gear in some respects, particularly when it came to attempting to shoot pacing footage from a car. Here is an example after some use of warp stabilizer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BbPUK6VWsE I don't think it turned out too bad but it's not nearly as steady as I would like and this is probably the best I managed to do out of the 3 pacing shots I attempted on the trip. I also hate the way warp stabilizer flips out every time a telephone pole crosses the shot. I started researching gimbals and that clued me in to the fact that some models allow the integration of a remote focus/zoom motor with the unit. This would potentially allow me to kill two birds with one stone as a sore point for me with the GH5 has always been the lack of servo zoom capability. It has raised a couple of questions however which I'm hoping you can help with. 1) How are gimbals at counteracting vibrations/motion induced by wind? I tend to mount a largeish microphone (Rode Stereo Videomic Pro) with a dead cat on top of the camera and it's a bit prone to inducing vibrations in high wind even when mounted on a sturdy tripod. I'm concerned that if I try to do the same on a gimbal it will not work well in substantial wind. 2) Do gimbals do anything to counteract vertical motion? Looking at their design it would seem the answer is no, but I was considering mounting the gimbal to my tripod in certain situations to allow me a steady enough platform for long zoom shots while assisting in the reduction of ground vibrations when the train got closer. This would also allow me to use a zoom motor controlled through the gimbal to achieve the long smooth zooms I miss from having an integrated lens camcorder. I'm considering the Zhiyun Crane 3 as it has a dedicated zoom control and I like the handle design but it also seems to be getting worse reviews than the Crane 2. Has anyone had experience with both of these units?
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Aug 3, 2019 00:17
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powderific posted:Double post to respond: The longest lens I'd probably try with the gimbal would be a 12-60 (micro 4/3 so 24-120 equivalent). For longer shots I'd probably stick with just the tripod. When you say "smaller gimbals" and "anything affordable" I assume you're comparing things like the Zhiyun Crane and DJI Ronin S against gimbals designed for cine cameras?
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Aug 4, 2019 03:50
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Based upon my experiences chasing the Big Boy across Wyoming in May I decided I need a gimbal for vehicular pacing shots. I can also think of several other applications for it, as it had previously been recommended to me in this topic as a way to avoid ground vibrations when filming close to the tracks. B&H was selling the Zhiyun Crane 3 for $470 on Sunday so I picked one up. It arrived last night and while I'm going to need to play with the settings a bit and practice moving with it, overall I'm pretty happy. I don't think I would be if I'd spent $800+ a year ago but for this price it's an impressive piece of hardware. I can't say the same about the phone app required to control advanced functions and change sensitivity settings, but it's usable. The wireless video feed to use my phone as a monitor isn't working (GH5 & Galaxy S7) but I haven't had time to troubleshoot it yet so hopefully I can get it to work.
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Dec 5, 2019 18:46
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| # ¿ Apr 25, 2024 13:30 |
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So I think I've finally gotten the hang of how to do a 4K HDR workflow and get good results. Premiere made things a lot easier with some updates in 2020 and getting a Ninja V for external recording in prores raw helped substantially as well. I'm still only doing HLG because manually defining meta data for PQ is more complexity than I want to get into yet, but I'll tackle it eventually because it seems to yield better results. This is the best guide I've found for shooting and editing HDR, and while it is for Resolve rather than Premiere the concepts still apply: https://www.mysterybox.us/blog/2016/10/20/hdr-video-part-4-shooting-for-hdr This is probably my favorite short HDR video I've put together so far. High contrast scenes are key and obviously well lit areas in the snow at night provides that very well. I also upgraded my camera this year to an A7SIII which is fantastic for night video. I realize I need to work on editing and add some voiceover to really make this stuff more interesting, but I'm a railfan so being interesting is not my strong suit. My ultimate goal is to produce the best image quality I can and hopefully capture visually interesting scenes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efa18mOcN2M
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Apr 19, 2021 04:06
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