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EvilMuppet
Jul 28, 2006

Bork Bork Bork


Archer2338 posted:

So, erm, I finally manned up and decided to get a start on scale modeling (military). Except that I have no idea where to start. The OP gives some useful info, but for a complete beginner like me, a lot of those stuff just fly over my head.

Can anyone recommend a nice, comprehensive guide/introduction to scale modeling? I live in Korea, which means I should have plenty of access to Japanese model kits. Just that I don't know which kit to start with, which tools are necessary, etc.

What kind of stuff do you want to build? Anime? Manga? Realistic tanks? planes? What scale?

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Archer2338
Mar 15, 2008

'Tis a screwed up world

EvilMuppet posted:

What kind of stuff do you want to build? Anime? Manga? Realistic tanks? planes? What scale?

I'm inclined towards WWII armored vehicles, but some of them look insanely detailed and I would most likely die from frustration if I bought the wrong model. Scale doesn't really matter, but what's the best "starter" size?

EvilMuppet
Jul 28, 2006

Bork Bork Bork


Archer2338 posted:

I'm inclined towards WWII armored vehicles, but some of them look insanely detailed and I would most likely die from frustration if I bought the wrong model. Scale doesn't really matter, but what's the best "starter" size?

I like 1/35. Just find a cheapie kit in that scale some glue (have a look back through the thread, I posted what is IMO the best glue available) some clippers and a hobby scalpel and go to town.

Wash your kit in warm soapy water, this removes and residue from the molds.

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.



Archer2338 posted:

I'm inclined towards WWII armored vehicles, but some of them look insanely detailed and I would most likely die from frustration if I bought the wrong model. Scale doesn't really matter, but what's the best "starter" size?

Kits are also often graded by difficulty, from basic snap-fit to insane 32 kajillion part 1/900000000 bits where assembly time is rated in man-years, not hours. If you have a good local hobby store, go and have a chat. Tell them you're after a decent low to mid difficulty kit to get into the hobby properly. If they're any good they'll try and sell you something suitable, or else you won't ever come back.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.


Archer2338 posted:

I'm inclined towards WWII armored vehicles, but some of them look insanely detailed and I would most likely die from frustration if I bought the wrong model. Scale doesn't really matter, but what's the best "starter" size?
I used to do tons of WWII armor as a kid, and made a couple kits for fun last winter. Tamiya makes some really great 1/35 armor kits, and while things like main battle tanks are a little pricey, they also make a lot of smaller kits in the $15 range. I got some weird german mini-tank for like $13, and it was almost as fun to put together as the $40 Tiger kit I did 20 years ago.

For $50 I got a couple cans of tamiya spray paint, a few jars of detail paint, some brushes, an xacto knife, and the kit. Had a couple fun january evenings putting it all together.

If you really want to spend a lot of time and go a little crazy, get one of their artillery kits.

Powdered Toast Man
Jan 25, 2005

TOAST-A-RIFIC!!!

Archer2338 posted:

I'm inclined towards WWII armored vehicles, but some of them look insanely detailed and I would most likely die from frustration if I bought the wrong model. Scale doesn't really matter, but what's the best "starter" size?

Some of the WWII models will actually end up being easier to build because, well, the tanks were simpler back then. A modern tank such as an M1A1 Abrams is going to be festooned with tiny bits like antennae, sensors, smoke grenade launchers...

For instance:

http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=TM35020

Delicious halftrack goodness, and cheap. You'll also get some practice painting figures, which is useful.

Bloody Hedgehog
Dec 12, 2003

Gotta nuke something


Heh, I'm a longtime scale modeler, and even I balked about 2/3's of the way through a 1000+ piece Panzer IV. That, and those photo-etch tool clasps with the working hinges. Assembling those could be used as a form of torture.

I'm thinking of getting into creating smaller vignettes with more figures and less vehicles, as there's less time spent assembling and more time creating. I just wish there were more WWII figures in generic poses or even with separate limbs for easy posing. Most of the really great sculpts are posed to the point where reposing them is tons of work.

Powdered Toast Man
Jan 25, 2005

TOAST-A-RIFIC!!!

Bloody Hedgehog posted:

Heh, I'm a longtime scale modeler, and even I balked about 2/3's of the way through a 1000+ piece Panzer IV. That, and those photo-etch tool clasps with the working hinges. Assembling those could be used as a form of torture.

I'm thinking of getting into creating smaller vignettes with more figures and less vehicles, as there's less time spent assembling and more time creating. I just wish there were more WWII figures in generic poses or even with separate limbs for easy posing. Most of the really great sculpts are posed to the point where reposing them is tons of work.

Ask the warhams about "green stuff". It's a two part putty with decent working time that I have seen them produce absolutely incredible results with. There are tutorials available that will help you get started. With green stuff you should be able to re-create entire limbs and add on more details such as clothing, equipment, and weapons.

What brand is your Panzer? Sounds like maybe a Dragon kit from the way you are describing it? I'd love to do one of those mega detailed tanks but I honestly don't think I have the patience for the fiddly bits. They're expensive if you screw up, too.

Vaporware
May 22, 2004

Still not here yet.

If you don't find green stuff agreeable (I've always had trouble mixing it sufficiently, it's really stiff), I recommend using apoxie, it's much softer in the mixing phase, and I find it easier to work in the modelling phase. If you're a masochist and green stuff isn't stiff enough, use actual plumbers putty.

Bloody Hedgehog
Dec 12, 2003

Gotta nuke something


Powdered Toast Man posted:

Ask the warhams about "green stuff". It's a two part putty with decent working time that I have seen them produce absolutely incredible results with. There are tutorials available that will help you get started. With green stuff you should be able to re-create entire limbs and add on more details such as clothing, equipment, and weapons.

What brand is your Panzer? Sounds like maybe a Dragon kit from the way you are describing it? I'd love to do one of those mega detailed tanks but I honestly don't think I have the patience for the fiddly bits. They're expensive if you screw up, too.

Yeah, I've tried Apoxie Sculpt, and I've found I just don't have much talent in the sculpting department. I can blend seams and all that well enough, but anything beyond that and I just can't wrap my head around it.

And yeah, that Panzer kit is a Dragon 3-in-1. It's amazingly detailed, but as you said, it takes shitloads of patience.

Audiot
May 18, 2006


I haven't done any modeling in years, but I've seen really good things made with Alumilite. You could use it to cast limbs or really whatever using the stuff.

http://www.alumilite.com/

MasterSlowPoke
Oct 9, 2005

Our courage will pull us through

Vaporware posted:

If you don't find green stuff agreeable (I've always had trouble mixing it sufficiently, it's really stiff), I recommend using apoxie, it's much softer in the mixing phase, and I find it easier to work in the modelling phase. If you're a masochist and green stuff isn't stiff enough, use actual plumbers putty.

plumbers putty won't dry for 15 years

Powdered Toast Man
Jan 25, 2005

TOAST-A-RIFIC!!!

Audiot posted:

I haven't done any modeling in years, but I've seen really good things made with Alumilite. You could use it to cast limbs or really whatever using the stuff.

http://www.alumilite.com/

I've been looking at Alumilite products for my aforementioned Fallout 3 AEP7 Laser Pistol replica project. The design of the pistol is not all that complicated; it is essentially a square tube with end caps, a handle, and a sort of guard that comes forward from the bottom of the handle and then returns up to the main body of the gun. The end caps, however, look like solid cast metal with fins for heat dissipation. My plan so far is to create an initial sculpture of that shape, and then use it to create a mold from which I can then cast a solid resin piece, and because the resin can be machined it should be easy to make adjustments to the final shape. The handle seems like a good candidate for cast resin, as well.

Archer2338
Mar 15, 2008

'Tis a screwed up world

Welp, I had an hell of an initiation to scale modeling. I bought a M18 Hellcat from a Korean manufacturer (Academy) and a bottle of Tamiya Extra Thin Cement, along with a set of paints and some thinner.

I assembled some parts and tried to paint them. I swallowed some of that paint thinner trying to get the safety cap off with my teeth (stupid, I know). Then I tried to paint. Got the parts painted, but the clean up... I dumped the leftover paint in my bathroom sink. Now it looks like someone took a poo poo and it won't come off. What the poo poo do I use to clean the paint off?

Vaporware
May 22, 2004

Still not here yet.

MasterSlowPoke posted:

plumbers putty won't dry for 15 years

Haha, oh yeah. Buy the 30 minute quick set epoxy putty stuff.

Archer2338 posted:

What the poo poo do I use to clean the paint off?

Mineral spirits, turpentine, brake cleaner, easy off.

Lots of household stuff takes paint off. You're going to have to scrub to get it out of the pores.

EvilMuppet
Jul 28, 2006

Bork Bork Bork


Archer2338 posted:

Welp, I had an hell of an initiation to scale modeling. I bought a M18 Hellcat from a Korean manufacturer (Academy) and a bottle of Tamiya Extra Thin Cement, along with a set of paints and some thinner.

I assembled some parts and tried to paint them. I swallowed some of that paint thinner trying to get the safety cap off with my teeth (stupid, I know). Then I tried to paint. Got the parts painted, but the clean up... I dumped the leftover paint in my bathroom sink. Now it looks like someone took a poo poo and it won't come off. What the poo poo do I use to clean the paint off?

Jeez dude, your just starting out? Take those oil/enamel paints you have and throw them all in the bin. They are only useful for specialized effects and crazy people. Buy some nice acrylics instead.

Archer2338
Mar 15, 2008

'Tis a screwed up world

I think these ARE acrylics O.o no label on them anyhow. No wonder I failed art back in grade school.

Vaporware
May 22, 2004

Still not here yet.

They could be oil based acrylics. He's saying use water based acrylics, which rarely need thinner to clean the brush.

edit: wait you bought tamiya glue, are they tamiya paints, short fat bottle with a cap as wide as the bottle and about half as tall? Cause they are water based, but they gum up unless you use the thinner with them. Acetone/ nail polish remover is very effective on tamiya paints.

Vaporware fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Jul 22, 2009

Archer2338
Mar 15, 2008

'Tis a screwed up world

Not Tamiya paint, it's by Mr. Hobby or something like that.
Don't think they're water based, as thinner/nail polish/related things seem to be the only things effective on them.

Also, latest update on Archer's Hellcat Trainwreck: I managed to put the road wheel struts backwards.

Powdered Toast Man
Jan 25, 2005

TOAST-A-RIFIC!!!

Tamiya paints would definitely be labeled, though...did you get one of those Testors themed sets (e.g. aircraft, cars, etc)?

Tamiya paint is more or less impossible to brush unless you use retardant or thinner. At least, that seems to be the case with most of the colors. Some of them behave differently and I have no idea why. It's really a pain in the rear end because I have no desire to airbrush everything.

Just about the only thing I use enamels for is special effects. I also use them to "dot" tiny things like indicator lights or buttons inside aircraft cockpits because the consistency of the paint works well for this, and the pigmentation is more intense.

One example of an enamel paint special effect is Masa Narita's technique for cockpit instruments, which you can see in his F-15E Strike Eagle how-to article on this page:

http://www.naritafamily.com/howto/howtoindex.htm

This guy is pretty much who I wish I could be when it comes to modeling. I have fooled people into thinking that some of his finished model pictures are in fact pictures of real planes.

The cockpit instrument technique produces incredible results, and yet is so simple:

1. Primer undercoat
2. Base coat of LACQUER (important) white
3. Top coat of ENAMEL (also important) black
4. Soak a toothpick in ENAMEL THINNER
5. Rub the black ENAMEL paint off the raised details on the instrument

Lacquer and enamel paints are sufficiently different in their chemical makeup that enamel thinner will not remove dried lacquer paint, and that's the secret behind this layered technique. It would be essentially impossible to paint these tiny, tiny details without getting paint on everything else around them, and I believe that Narita-san's cockpits look much better than pre-colored photo etch.

Edit: No surprises on your problems with that kit; Academy's instructions generally suck. Don't take 'em at face value.

Vaporware
May 22, 2004

Still not here yet.

wow, now that's a tip.

MarshallX
Apr 13, 2004


Powdered Toast Man posted:

Tamiya paints would definitely be labeled, though...did you get one of those Testors themed sets (e.g. aircraft, cars, etc)?

Tamiya paint is more or less impossible to brush unless you use retardant or thinner. At least, that seems to be the case with most of the colors. Some of them behave differently and I have no idea why. It's really a pain in the rear end because I have no desire to airbrush everything.

Just about the only thing I use enamels for is special effects. I also use them to "dot" tiny things like indicator lights or buttons inside aircraft cockpits because the consistency of the paint works well for this, and the pigmentation is more intense.

One example of an enamel paint special effect is Masa Narita's technique for cockpit instruments, which you can see in his F-15E Strike Eagle how-to article on this page:

http://www.naritafamily.com/howto/howtoindex.htm

This guy is pretty much who I wish I could be when it comes to modeling. I have fooled people into thinking that some of his finished model pictures are in fact pictures of real planes.

The cockpit instrument technique produces incredible results, and yet is so simple:

1. Primer undercoat
2. Base coat of LACQUER (important) white
3. Top coat of ENAMEL (also important) black
4. Soak a toothpick in ENAMEL THINNER
5. Rub the black ENAMEL paint off the raised details on the instrument

Lacquer and enamel paints are sufficiently different in their chemical makeup that enamel thinner will not remove dried lacquer paint, and that's the secret behind this layered technique. It would be essentially impossible to paint these tiny, tiny details without getting paint on everything else around them, and I believe that Narita-san's cockpits look much better than pre-colored photo etch.

Edit: No surprises on your problems with that kit; Academy's instructions generally suck. Don't take 'em at face value.

Holy loving poo poo @ that dude's F-15E Interior.

Powdered Toast Man
Jan 25, 2005

TOAST-A-RIFIC!!!

Yep, you know the dude is a badass from the Tamiya and IPMS trophies, plaques, and honors he has. I think my personal favorite is the Su-27 Flanker, although his award-winning naval diorama is epic.

MarshallX
Apr 13, 2004


Powdered Toast Man posted:

Yep, you know the dude is a badass from the Tamiya and IPMS trophies, plaques, and honors he has. I think my personal favorite is the Su-27 Flanker, although his award-winning naval diorama is epic.

I had to find the walkthrough to figure out how the waves were done. Absolutely blew my mind.

I went to a local hobby shop today and they just happened to have the F-15E model in stock....

How much am I looking at with Paints, Glue and all the shabaz? Price me something out here fellas, my birthday is 2 weeks away and the Super Cub R/C Plane I asked my wife for is looking alot less appealing with a loving F-15E STRIKE EAGLE perched above my monitor...

Pagan
Jun 3, 2003



Powdered Toast Man posted:

Tamiya paints would definitely be labeled, though...did you get one of those Testors themed sets (e.g. aircraft, cars, etc)?

Tamiya paint is more or less impossible to brush unless you use retardant or thinner. At least, that seems to be the case with most of the colors. Some of them behave differently and I have no idea why. It's really a pain in the rear end because I have no desire to airbrush everything.

Just about the only thing I use enamels for is special effects. I also use them to "dot" tiny things like indicator lights or buttons inside aircraft cockpits because the consistency of the paint works well for this, and the pigmentation is more intense.

One example of an enamel paint special effect is Masa Narita's technique for cockpit instruments, which you can see in his F-15E Strike Eagle how-to article on this page:

http://www.naritafamily.com/howto/howtoindex.htm

This guy is pretty much who I wish I could be when it comes to modeling. I have fooled people into thinking that some of his finished model pictures are in fact pictures of real planes.

The cockpit instrument technique produces incredible results, and yet is so simple:

1. Primer undercoat
2. Base coat of LACQUER (important) white
3. Top coat of ENAMEL (also important) black
4. Soak a toothpick in ENAMEL THINNER
5. Rub the black ENAMEL paint off the raised details on the instrument

Lacquer and enamel paints are sufficiently different in their chemical makeup that enamel thinner will not remove dried lacquer paint, and that's the secret behind this layered technique. It would be essentially impossible to paint these tiny, tiny details without getting paint on everything else around them, and I believe that Narita-san's cockpits look much better than pre-colored photo etch.

Edit: No surprises on your problems with that kit; Academy's instructions generally suck. Don't take 'em at face value.

This is why I'll never be that good . . .

quote:

http://www.naritafamily.com/howto/Tiger1/step1.htm
Finish with 800 grade sand paper. These parts are not so visible but nevertheless pay attention to cleaning up.

Parts that won't even be VISIBLE in the finished model, he does a two stage sanding process on. Wow.

ASSTASTIC
Apr 26, 2003

Hey Gusy!

Christ I have learned more from Masa Narita's walk-thrus and general modeling info than I ever knew before. This man is a genius.

Archer2338
Mar 15, 2008

'Tis a screwed up world

That guy is simply badass. That naval diorama... My god. He could build museum pieces (as in real history ones)...

Powdered Toast Man
Jan 25, 2005

TOAST-A-RIFIC!!!

MarshallX posted:

I had to find the walkthrough to figure out how the waves were done. Absolutely blew my mind.

I went to a local hobby shop today and they just happened to have the F-15E model in stock....

How much am I looking at with Paints, Glue and all the shabaz? Price me something out here fellas, my birthday is 2 weeks away and the Super Cub R/C Plane I asked my wife for is looking alot less appealing with a loving F-15E STRIKE EAGLE perched above my monitor...

Spring for the "Bunker Buster" variation; it comes with an absolute shitload of bombs and stuff. The kit itself is usually about $149 retail but can be found for less online. Paints won't cost much because the Strike Eagle is the same color all over.

Vaporware
May 22, 2004

Still not here yet.

What's everyone's choice for superglue? I normally use zap-a-gap but I'm not super attached to them since their nozzles are so terrible. I do like plastizap since it doesn't craze styrene.

I'm shopping for a new brand because I'm finally totally out of old super glue.

Powdered Toast Man
Jan 25, 2005

TOAST-A-RIFIC!!!

Vaporware posted:

What's everyone's choice for superglue? I normally use zap-a-gap but I'm not super attached to them since their nozzles are so terrible. I do like plastizap since it doesn't craze styrene.

I'm shopping for a new brand because I'm finally totally out of old super glue.

The house brand stuff at Hobby Lobby is decent. I think it's called MAXIMUM POWER or something equally corny. Zap A Gap is still my favorite of all time, though. I keep it in the fridge so it doesn't set up and stays nice and flowy. Their Zip Kicker accelerator fluid works great, too.

Depending on where you buy your supplies from, you may be able to get replacement/alternative nozzles that work with the Zap A Gap bottles. Hobbytown USA has them, for instance. Keeping my glue in the fridge seems to help with nozzle clogging, for what it's worth.

permanoob
Sep 28, 2004

Yeah it's a lot like that.

Powdered Toast Man posted:

Yep, you know the dude is a badass from the Tamiya and IPMS trophies, plaques, and honors he has. I think my personal favorite is the Su-27 Flanker, although his award-winning naval diorama is epic.

I should take some pictures of my dad's awards shelves. I'll ask him for some pictures of his latest works and whatnot if you guys want to check some of it out.

Silhouette
Nov 16, 2002

SONIC BOOM!!!


Vaporware posted:

If you don't find green stuff agreeable (I've always had trouble mixing it sufficiently, it's really stiff), I recommend using apoxie, it's much softer in the mixing phase, and I find it easier to work in the modelling phase. If you're a masochist and green stuff isn't stiff enough, use actual plumbers putty.

Ehhhhh, Apoxie Sculpt is really grainy. There's this newer stuff on the market called ProCreate, that has the working time, sharp detail and elasticity of green Kneadatite, but it's nowhere near as sticky, and it dries harder and can be filed like brown Kneadatite.

MasterSlowPoke posted:

plumbers putty won't dry for 15 years

Green stuff is Kneadatite; Kneadatite was originally sold as plumber's putty.

MasterSlowPoke
Oct 9, 2005

Our courage will pull us through

You're thinking of plumbing epoxy. Plumber's putty is for preventing leaks around the brim of sinks and drains. Epoxy like green stuff is for patching cracks, and anything else that needs a permanent, unbreakable seal.

Plumber's putty is basically oil and fine sand. Epoxy is made out of resin.

Vaporware
May 22, 2004

Still not here yet.

Yeah, I was thinking of epoxy. I'll try that proCreate because I like greenstuff's texture, but I get hand cramps mixing it up.

WaywardWoodwose
May 19, 2008

The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.

Has anyone here actully used alumilite? I bought a starter kit out of curiosity to see if I could cast my own miniatures, and even though my results have been very mixed, I really like it. I have never done the miniature thing before, but i used to be really into mask making, and this reminds me of working with fiberglass.

Vaporware
May 22, 2004

Still not here yet.

Nope, but I keep intending to try it.

Ok, another question. I am trying to restock my paints (the holy crap i'm out of white, red, yellow and blue kind of out) and I'm not fond of post hexagon-flip-top citadel paints. I've been looking up my options, but I can't find a "starter kit" of primary colors from vallejo, reaper, coat d'arms or any of the citadel comparables (outside the UK). I'm kind of looking for a fresh start, but as I've mentioned earlier in the thread, tamiya needs thinner and I'm timid to drop serious cash on gunze or polly without any experience using thinner.

Should I just man up and go to a more "professional" hobby brand like testors model masters or tamiya, or is it possible to stick with water-thinned acrylics like citadel (except cheaper)? Enamel solvent based paints aren't really an option when I occasionally paint soft PVC, and I can't invest in two parallel but incompatible formulas right now.

EvilMuppet
Jul 28, 2006

Bork Bork Bork


Vaporware posted:

Nope, but I keep intending to try it.

Ok, another question. I am trying to restock my paints (the holy crap i'm out of white, red, yellow and blue kind of out) and I'm not fond of post hexagon-flip-top citadel paints. I've been looking up my options, but I can't find a "starter kit" of primary colors from vallejo, reaper, coat d'arms or any of the citadel comparables (outside the UK). I'm kind of looking for a fresh start, but as I've mentioned earlier in the thread, tamiya needs thinner and I'm timid to drop serious cash on gunze or polly without any experience using thinner.

Should I just man up and go to a more "professional" hobby brand like testors model masters or tamiya, or is it possible to stick with water-thinned acrylics like citadel (except cheaper)? Enamel solvent based paints aren't really an option when I occasionally paint soft PVC, and I can't invest in two parallel but incompatible formulas right now.


quote:

INTRO GAME COLOR SET
(Ref. 72108)
Boxed Set with 8 primary colors of Game Color with 2 Toray brushes, palette, plastic figure and color chart.

There are plenty of other sets there too. Whatever you want buy it from here http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/

I'd recommend the full set of every colour they make :P

EDIT: Whatever you choose, stick with acrylics.

EvilMuppet fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Jul 29, 2009

Powdered Toast Man
Jan 25, 2005

TOAST-A-RIFIC!!!

Vallejo and Games Workshop (Citadel brand) both make absolutely fantastic quality paints. I had never touched them before until I started dabbling in figures, and I couldn't believe how easily they flow and brush compared to, say, Tamiya.

The Citadel washes are also kickass for achieving shading effects. They are apparently pigment based rather than ink, which makes them more permanent and vivid.

EvilMuppet
Jul 28, 2006

Bork Bork Bork


Powdered Toast Man posted:

Vallejo and Games Workshop (Citadel brand) both make absolutely fantastic quality paints. I had never touched them before until I started dabbling in figures, and I couldn't believe how easily they flow and brush compared to, say, Tamiya.

The Citadel washes are also kickass for achieving shading effects. They are apparently pigment based rather than ink, which makes them more permanent and vivid.

Agreed, the Citadel washes and foundations are both amazing.

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Vaporware
May 22, 2004

Still not here yet.

Oh yeah I knew they made them, but I can't find a US distributer in my area, and I'm still searching the online distributers for some good prices.

edit and hell yes I want that 72 pc set, but hell I don't have $160 to drop on paint right now

Vaporware fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Jul 29, 2009

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