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Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


Ensign Expendable posted:

I've done this once, your whole apartment will smell like spray paint for an hour or so no matter how good you think your exhaust setup is. If you want to wear a respirator the whole time, more power to you.

The other day, I went down to my unfinished basement because of very high winds and thought "how bad can it be? There's no return air down there to spread stink to the rest of the house."

Turns out I was hyper-wrong.

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Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


Vorenus posted:

I would do it, but I would hate to blow a bunch of cash on supplies for something that's way above my skill level.

I'm a model railroader. I'm spending thousands and thousands of dollars to build a room to house mountains of supplies for things beyond my skill level.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


Ensign Expendable posted:

Big tank part 2



What brand/color is that?

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


Bloody Hedgehog posted:

Started a new kit from my stash, the "Posto Di Combattimento" from Panart. A cutaway kit showing the gundeck on a typical 18th century sailing ship.

That is pretty neat. Although I keep giggling at the name. COMBAT PLACE

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


No. 1 Juicy Boi posted:

Is there a thread for model railroad? I kinda want to do my toes in but I have no idea where to start.

Our kind doesn't have a dedicated thread.

My first, seemingly odd, question is are you in North America?

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


SkunkDuster posted:

Trap sprung, foreigner! Pennsylvania is a commonwealth, not a state. Now tell us where you are really from.

I've spent 36 of my 39 years in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania or the Commonwealth of Virginia and I'm pretty sure I can count on one hand the number of times I've referred them as such.

OK, so N scale huh.

Generally speaking, you should (and people usually are right on this) avoid any sort of "train set" even as an entry level thing. They're not very common any more anyhow. HOWEVER, N does present you with an option that is somewhat different. I'll come back to that in a bit.

Kato Unitrack is a fantastic product. It isn't cheap and temporarily locks you into their ecosystem, but gets you up and running without significant investment elsewhere. Stay away from virtually everyone else's sectional track. In the long run, you can worry about flex track and so on. But Unitrack gives you a super reliable and high quality option to slap something down on a table without having to build benchwork or anything yet. It really gives you an option to cut your teeth easily. And plenty of serious guys will use it on a permanent layout too.

This is where the "train set" advice falls apart: in N scale, Kato offers sets. This are straight up hobbyist grade sets. This is entirely unique to N scale. You can't really do this in other scales.

Kato doesn't offer a lot of sets, but they do have a variety of American equipment sets. You don't have to do this, if course, but I'd strongly recommend Unitrack no matter what. Even in HO. There's very few bad manufacturers when it comes locomotives these days, ever since the bottom fell out on the toy end of the spectrum. Usually, you drift more towards finding the type of equipment you want, then seeing who makes it.

Get yourself at least a loop of track, pick out some equipment you like (don't worry about era or anything like that yet if you don't want to), and make it run on the dining room table. We all basically started there anyhow.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


Sort of cut myself off there at the end:

Once you're ready to get into building structures, adding more elaborate track elements, scenery, and such, I'd look into T Track. They are small modules designed for minimal benchwork construction, interchangeable, and can be placed on any old flat surface. A couple firms sell prefab kits for the boxes. They're well sized for N scale.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


Yeah, the actual trains will run on anyone's track. Any manufacturer works on everyone's track and interchangeably. There's no hesitation or anything. Completely universal (provided they all have compatible couplers. This isn't as common an issue as it used to be, but can still come up).

Track itself doesn't always play well with each other. Everyone uses different tie dimensions and rail profiles that require fine tuning. Any of the ones that have built in roadbed add in an extra challenge to interconnection.

Where in Pennsylvania are you?

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


No. 1 Juicy Boi posted:

Broadly in the Philly area. I'm not too far from Nicholas Smith Trains which I'm excited to go check out when I actually have money to blow

They have a good reputation and they've been around forever. They're pretty much the only major shop in Pennsylvania that I've never set foot in. But I hear good things.

Is there anything specific that interests you?

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


blugu64 posted:

Any of y’all do model trains (or is there a thread)? Getting a under the Christmas tree setup going, and was thinking I might do a small layout after the holidays with the parts.

I swear I’m not 60.

Do you want to go big or small? Scale or tinplate (that's what our kind uses to refer to the more "toy" like ones)? How much are you looking to spend?

I do scale modeling, but dropped a few hundred on Lionel last Christmas. Big enough for the cats to not attack.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


blugu64 posted:

N scale. Starting with a 4’ x 4’ boards around the tree, but kinda going from there. Went with Kato Unitrack and a basic set + expansion.

I haven't really seen N scale running around a tree before. No reason you can't, of course, and it might actually have some advantages compared to other scales. For instance, you can have a double tracked line and there's no way you can do that with any other scale in that space.

Are you doing one 4x4 square? If so, may I suggest using two 2x4 panels bolted together. That way, if you decide to expand in the near term, you can use the two panels as the ends of bigger loop or segments of more linear layout.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


MrUnderbridge posted:

If noise is a concern, try a CO2 tank. Absolutely silent except for the hiss of the airbrush.



That's basically what my brother does. He has a good size tank with regulator that he lugs to work and charges on one of their compressors.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


Arquinsiel posted:

It seems to think it's an F-35 too :psyduck:

Both of the ATF aircraft were named after the twin engine, twin boom WWII fighters: YF-22 Lighting II and the YF-23 Black Widow II.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


Fearless posted:

My questions are: Is there a kind of treadmill or roller system that would allow an engine to putter along in place? And has anything like this been done before?

Yes, there are rollers. They're not visually all that nice to look at, but they do exist.

https://www.micromark.com/HO-On30-Locomotive-Rollers-Assembled-Set-of-4

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


A small engine terminal wouldn't take up a whole lot of space, depending on what sort of area you'd be willing or able to go with. Not much more moving around than shuttling between the inbound track, processing, storage (if needed), and moving to the ready track, but still something. The Europeans, especially English, do more of this style than North Americans, in part because of the size difference between our equipment (a British 2-10-0 of the 1950s was considered enormous at 66 feet long and is the largest they have to contend with. A North American locomotive of the same wheel arrangement was 82 feet long and average sized.).

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


The interesting thing about the Inglenook is that it isn't unrealistic. A lot of the puzzle types require track arrangements that no one would actually build in reality.

On the other hand, Inglenook uses a fairly common track arrangement that comes up in warehousing and bulk liquid transfer. Here in Alexandria, Virginia, we used to have a warehouse on the waterfront where barges brought paper up from the South. The paper was transfered to boxcars and then moved across town to the facility that prints the Washington Post. Shuffling the loads, empties, partial loads, and different grades of paper req the types of moves that Inglenook uses. This wasn't all that long ago either. Barge service was discontinued in 2013 and now the lower volume of paper made an all rail move from the paper mills economical.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


Gewehr 43 posted:

God I wish you were kidding.

As you can assume, us model railroad guys have the same level of "this travesty shall not be forgotten" over things. But, there's this company named Athearn. If you're in HO, you own something that they made. They are one of the biggest players around.

Now, they used a common one piece casting for the underframe and floor for virtually every variation on a boxcar. There were three parts that are glued to the underframe that represent the brake equipment.

The entire brake system is backwards.

The reference they used was a top down look, but they mistook it for a bottom up look. This makes the whole thing mirrored.

They've been making them this way for 60+ years. If you can dodge that bullet for that long, you can dodge anything.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


power crystals posted:

That's because N defines a gauge (9mm) not a scale, and combined with real-world railroads having various gauges, you get stuff like "american" N being 1:160 and "japanese" N being 1:150. They work together just fine because all the important parts are the same size, but they can look kinda weird side by side.

G is a similar mess of "we use this track for 5 different scales."

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


Less than you might think, because the distance between the rails is a defined space. It isn't abstract like "eye high." Using different scales with the same track just references the actual prototype gauge. But, they tend to be geographical distinct as well.

Japanese railways were more commonly Cape Gauge instead of Standard, so they adjusted the scale to reflect that rails 9mm apart are Cape Gauge.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


Pretty much. The difference in the spacing and detail of the ties/sleepers is negligible anyhow, because there's so much variety in the spacing and most of the details are out of scale in the first place.

You do see offerings that account for the scale. On30 track is gauged as 30 inches and can rely on HO mechanisms. They'll run on HO track. But, the ties are way too small and way too close so they do make On30 track.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


Neddy Seagoon posted:

Conventions of any kind bring in people across states and countries into close contact for a weekend. That's a massive super-spreader opportunity dispersing new COVID cases EVERYWHERE, so they absolutely need a mask mandate.

Yeah, but you can also think "I'd rather not go and deal with it" without thinking it is a bad idea. I've avoided flying places because I didn't want to wear a mask for five hours. Didn't think it was a bad idea that people wear them in airports and stuff. Just would rather choose something else that doesn't require it.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


Cthulu Carl posted:

I refuse to believe this is a legitimate combination of words for a boat and not some perverted - probably illegal - sex move.

I vacationed in Maine this summer and spent a few days on Muscongus Bay. Maine has a lot of unusual sounding place names, but Muscongus was the only one that sounds like a weird infection.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


Charliegrs posted:

I think by "unusual sounding" you mean Native American. It's very common for places on the east coast to have either English or Native American names.

Yes. And Potomac, Accotink, Aquia, and Occoquan don't sound odd to me because I hear them every day

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


I've always thought it would be super cool to build a tall ship with all the rigging, but I don't need to spend hours working towards the moment it goes out the window followed by a festive wordcloud of obscenities.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


Cthulu Carl posted:

I had a little snap-tight model with this paint scheme as a kid

I think if you were approximately 10 in 1991, you were just issued that kit by the DoD

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


When I lived in a high rise, I just went down by the dumpsters. The only downside was that I did have to use canned air. Other than that, it wasn't exposed to the wind and it was out of the way. Just had a little tray table I took with me. No one cared about overspray getting on anything. People sprayed furniture down there, maintenance guys painted all sorts of things. No one ever bothered me.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


Ensign Expendable posted:

There's a style of facial hair that works very well with respiratory protection. Unfortunately, it's been somewhat marred a few decades ago.

Yeah who wants to look like that goofball Chaplin

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


Crayola made stuff like that, but I don't remember what it was called.

It was like playing with a huge stale marshmallow. I remember using it for making the terrain around a scale model of Fort Duquesne that I put entirely too much effort into for a school project.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


Arquinsiel posted:

YES! Crayola Model Magic! WE DID IT! GO TEAM!

Or at least I think we did it :shrug:

I'm pretty sure we did

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


I'd totally build a model container ship, if there was anything over than the Revell Colombo Express kit.

I want an Evergreen F.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


Warmachine posted:

I'm torn between surprise that no one produced one when the whole canal thing happened, and not being surprised at all that a largely traditional hobby let this opportunity slip. It does feel strange given that, for example, there are plenty of civilian aircraft, and trains are primarily civilian, but despite the merchant marine being the vast majority of ocean traffic there's very little representation in the model space.

I almost said "missed the boat."

There's also huge variety in the fleets, even if they do all sort of look the same.

Like I want an Evergreen F because they're common in the ports I see and I have a bunch of pictures of the Ever Far. Also, the Ever Forward grounded off Annapolis a few months ago and got a little notoriety out of it. Evergreen alone has five classes in their fleet right now.

Revell did the Colombo Express when it was the largest one in the world, back in 2005. Now it is a baby. The Evergreen Fs are the same size and there's 18 classes across the global fleet that are bigger.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


Charliegrs posted:

So it's not really surprising that these shops have a huge muscle car model selection that's typically what their customers want because that's the cars they were into when they were younger versus my generation that was more into Japanese cars.

I'm guessing that you're probably around my age given that you're on this site and the Japanese car thing makes sense because they were the cool cars when I was younger. My dream car was a Lancer Evo.

But I find that some of the actual kids these days seem to be interested in the big Detroit stuff. I suppose it is because they're not the car that dad likes from Japan. One of my nephews is super into 40s and 50s sedans. No idea how he got into that. More of a die cast collector than a model builder, which is curious for a 12 year old.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


I've tried to approach it from a few different angles and just can't find one where 1/25 works. "Is half of the architectural scale 1/50" is it?

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


tidal wave emulator posted:

I guess their argument is the same as when a manufacturer brings out a release of a kit they don't want ("another spitfire yawn") which will guarantee them income, rather than some obscure kit which will sell half a dozen boxes - "they're wasting their designers' time" etc.

Over in my train world, you get this any time a maker announces a new run of the F7 (3700+ built, operated by basically every railroad in the US and Canada in the early 50s, some still in service), SD40-2 (4000+, effectively the default locomotive after 1975, or Dash 9 (3600+, replaced the SD40-2 in the late 90s, exported to Australia and Brazil, largely identical to the the 2800 AC440CW, allowing your tooling to double dip), you get someone wanting a locomotive like the P30CH. They built 25, for one railroad, who hated them and replaced them as fast as possible.

But then you get someone who actually does a rare one. Like the 10 SDL39s, that wore three different paint schemes before getting shipped off to Chile. A prime example of the rare "no one will ever make it" type.

Of course it got the "why are they wasting time with the SDL39s." Why wouldn't it?

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


Half of the work involved in model trains is making them look like they're on their way to the scrap yard.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


G scale is a magical scale that can be whatever you want it to be

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


That seems like a very expensive target.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


In HO, not really. Tyco and Life Like were the last two bastions of operating accessories like that and neither is around any more. There is a German company (forget which) that makes an operating container gantry but it is expensive and finicky.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


stealie72 posted:

So without rad poo poo like that, what's the point?

That's the dividing line between tinplate and scale model railroads.

Tinplate (which is the adult way to say toy trains even though they haven't been metal for decades and decades) does still have all that sort of stuff. Giraffes ducking into cars, dumping things into and out of cars, all that is still available in the scales that tinplate prevails. That's pretty much O and the broad group called G. S was, but S has turned into a craftsman scale after American Flyer, Marx, and Gilbert left the market.

HO was always more of a scale, uh, scale. The inherent delicacy of the smaller scale lent itself to being immediately a hobby scale than the tinplate toy scale. Not to say it wasn't possible, because it definitely happened. Tinplate HO began to disintegrate in the early 80s and was all but gone by the mid 90s.

The other scales never experienced the tinplate branch, either because they came late enough to immediately become scale or had some shortcomings that prevented it. N, for instance, was always too delicate to be a tinplate scale.

The funny part is that the kids who grew up with the Tyco HO tinplate are starting to become deep pocketed collectors themselves. Classic Lionel and American Flyer is dying off and their prices are dropping while Tyco is climbing. I'm guilty of this too. I dropped $40 on a sealed in box Tyco kit I got for Christmas back in 1988 that couldn't have been more than $7 to $10 originally. It isn't even going on my layout. Just wanted to have it again.

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Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


stealie72 posted:

Always thought of the smaller scales as sort of boring, but the way you laid this out (see what I did there?) it makes sense that building the world for the train is at least half the point.

While there's no shortage of guys who will build models of railroad equipment that go on a shelf like a regular plastic model, most do treat the trains as half of the hobby. There's some that forgo a lot of detail to the diorama aspect in order to simulate the movement of trains based on actual operating rules, some guys that want to build model ships so their layout is set at a port, or go with the Civil War to make little soldiers too.

And there are guys who use the trains as set decoration for their structures like this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luUEvCk-u0Q

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