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Heavy neutrino posted:i will punch in the face anyone who says the words "wasteful medical spending" to me No, not econ 101, 201 maybe. Im an Economics Major  .And Economics generally favours socialized medicine in *not america*. Perfect Competition (econ 101) is generally thought to be the apex of productive and allocative efficiency, but it's fairly obvious that every facet of healthcare cannot conform to Perfect Competition. Free Rider problem, Moral Hazard, Information Assymetry, Adverse Selection, Regulation limited supply and demand... Yes, Perfect Competition is nice and shiny, but there's nothing Perfectly Competitive about the private insurance market. You have information assymetry, heterogenous plans, few sellers and lots of buyers. Plus you need a lot of customers to mitigate the risk pool, and since insurance providers have to work with a fraction of the population, they cull the risk by not providing insurance to those with pre-existing conditions. quote:In the end, it would be a mistake to expect too much from health insurance reform. A competitive system of private insurers, lightly regulated to ensure that the market works well, would offer Americans the best health care at the best prices. Is laughable coming even from a first year economics student, nevermind a Harvard professor. Has this guy ever seen the comparisions with other countries? Sweden and Japan have people who live far longer than Americans, have decreased *everything bad* and increased *everything good*. And their per capital spending is the same as the USA, you know, if you added them together.
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Jun 28, 2009 13:26
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sitchensis posted:"What happens when there is a free giveaway? Here it is ice-cream cones. People wait in line to get them. Here it is gasoline. People wait in line, wasting gasoline, just to get it. It's the law of supply and demand -- lower prices increases demand." Haha, they actually act as if it's first come, first served, and not based on severity. What's triage precious? But no, they wanna see a doctor about their cough NOW, gently caress the poor guy having a heart attack.
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Jul 2, 2009 19:30
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Gazaville Slugger posted:hahahahahaha Haven't you heard of this little thing called the free market? Heh.  Fuckin' commie.
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Jul 2, 2009 20:23
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Optimus_Rhyme posted:Welp, the system still works: Man that's a sad story, but seriously, how sick can one person get? Jesus-loving-Christ, leukemia, hereditary heart problems, hereditary hearing problems, possible ovarian cancer, familial type I diabetes, and a tyroid problem. I don't blame the insurance people for dropping it like it's hot. Why do you have to be such a downer America? You used to be cool.
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Jul 9, 2009 07:38
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randomnoise posted:I wonder how much it would cost for one of those people to hire blackwater to murder congressmen until the survivors pass single payer? Probably less than what people like that are spending for the privilege of surviving a few more weeks in this shithole country. Being able to survive is a privilege, not a right. Compassion has to be earned, not freely given  .it's opposite day
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Jul 9, 2009 09:22
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Ekamai posted:That story on the previous page about the canadian woman going to arizona to get healthcare seems to be bullshit: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/7/19/755113/-Another-Healthcare-Lie,-and-the-Lying-Liar-Thats-Telling-It The sad thing is that people will continue to believe the story because it benefits their argument. This lying bitch probably set back the healthcare reform movement for good. Cyst became tumour, month wait became "over 6 months". I'm impressed at the lack of morals in american politics. It seems outright lies are a matter of course and no one resents a political party after the first blatant lie.
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Jul 21, 2009 14:44
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Ajaarg posted:I have, and I pretty much know what goes into a bottle of coke. Do you, science wizard? Tell me, which of those ingredients are toxic? Your argument is concise and makes a lot of sense. It's difficult to make a real rebuttal against it so people are just going to call you a fatty fat goon and claim you love to chug the most worthless soda possible. Because ad hominem arguments against goons are easier. The republican handwaving about excise tax on soda is going to screw the poor like everything else a republican suggests. But who cares, I'M not poor enough to be unable to afford soda. gently caress you, got my gamer fuel stupid poor idiots. Shoulda bootstrapped when you had the chance.
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Jul 21, 2009 17:14
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I really want them to have an accident, cancer or a disease and face the USA healthcare system head on for the first time. I'd say they'd be wanting UHC after that but they'd be dead from lack of adequete care so whatever.
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Jul 24, 2009 19:27
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stun runner posted:Okay, so the current system might have a few kinks that need to be worked out, but I'd say it's overall much better than having some government bureaucrat standing between you and your doctor. These quotes are making me angry. It's like people see UHC as being kafkaesque when in actual fact is, theres no one between you and your doctor, he just gets paid by the government for treating you. ARGH. The worst part is that I know theres absolutely nothing I can say that will change their minds. It's just hopeless.
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Jul 24, 2009 19:43
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randomnoise posted:I AM AN AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE SHITHEEL Ok I'm saving this, this is genius, you are genius.
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Jul 25, 2009 00:35
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Lee Harvey Oswald posted:For me its simple, I don't want to give up more of my hard earned money so some douche in Washington can waste it. I don't think health care is right if you want health care get a job that has it, or pay for it. *Sees a thread in GBS.* *Skims the first post, it's pretty long.* *Sees healthcare and socialism in the same paragraph.* *Clicks Post Reply* *Threadshit and run.*
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Aug 1, 2009 15:05
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mistermojo posted:lol china Ahahaha, america is gonna be the last country in the world without national healthcare at this rate. If I was offered american citizenship instantly with no strings attached I would decline, gently caress that. Also that Stephen Hawking crap is just loving hilarious, yeah america helped the British scientist stay alive, good work guys.
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Aug 11, 2009 17:53
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randomnoise posted:holy poo poo I wish I'd spent more then 10 minutes on that now. According to those comments it's been "sourced" at like a dozen different places (including 4chan Ahaha in the DK comments section a guy says "It's been floating around the tubes for years." And another guy said it's been around for ages. So when did you go back in time and seed it thoughout the internet?
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Aug 15, 2009 02:37
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) and all over the goddamn web, and everyone is spamming it on facebook and emails and whatever, and it's like the most poorly written "effort/serious" thing i've done 
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Butlercide posted:according to george bush working 3 jobs is "uniquely american" well it is...
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Aug 15, 2009 19:39
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VideoTapir posted:I used to be willing to at least hear a libertarian out. I don't think I'm willing anymore. Yeah, it's like an echo chamber of disproved ideas. Social mobility, bootstraps, self reliance/responsibility, free market or variations on the theme thereof. I wish there would be a newer, interesting, libertarian argument that is actually worthy of debate. Instead you just get the same ideas worded slightly differently repeated ad nauseum.
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Aug 16, 2009 05:21
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GROADIE SNATCH!! posted:This is probably the best post ive seen in here. Please leave and dont let the door hit you on the way out. Yeah, the door might injure him and he'd be forced into bankruptcy by the medical costs.
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Aug 16, 2009 18:51
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:its also your RESPONSIBILITY to loving die from cancer because the hospital didnt get payment so they stopped giving you drugs and the insurance company managed to stall long enough that your treatable cancer now went terminal and there is nothing you can do about it anyways now oh lol This reminds me of a Kafka novel, except scarier.
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Aug 17, 2009 18:42
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elf help book posted:kafka actually worked for an insurance company oh yeah I remember that. Dude knew what he was writing about with the bureaucratic nightmare then.
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Aug 17, 2009 18:57
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E2M6 posted:so is rl like The Trial now only instead of being executed in a field ill be left to die at home of something entirely preventable/treatable Did you know an insurance company puts a one million dollar surcharge on the collective insurance of a company if they employ someone with cancer, or who has a partner with cancer. Awww yeaaah you gon' get fired son. Kafka was an optimist. Source: http://www.alternet.org/blogs/healthwellness/141205/this_is_what_happens_when_you_get_cancer_in_america/ Xachariah fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Aug 17, 2009 |
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Aug 17, 2009 19:02
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mistermojo posted:
Americans arnt allowed to use the 'British have bad teeth' stereotype anymore, your pass got revoked for being worse than them.
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Aug 18, 2009 18:51
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What is this 'Town hall' crap about anyway? Never heard of anything like it before the whole healthcare shenanigans kicked off.
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Aug 19, 2009 00:55
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Blinders posted:No. I make sure that everything down to the last $.05 syringe is charged to the patient, but office managers and accountants handle the money. I don't know anything about it. More like a $200 syringe. They are American syringes  .
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Aug 22, 2009 16:50
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Tochiazuma posted:For gently caress's sake, it's a *cheaper* system. How can you live next door to a nation that covers *everybody* for *less* and not at least give serious thought to a single-payer system? Easy, those opposing healthcare have no qualms about making stuff up and blatantly lying. For example, end of life panels? Are you absolutely making GBS threads me America? Do conservatives honestly believe that in UHC people stop receiving treatment on the say so of a panel of bureaucrats? You actually envision The Trial for healthcare? If I lived in America I would probably leave, I honestly cannot imagine having to tolerate such blatant stupidity every day. How can a reasonable person watch TV there and not die from a brain aneurysm?
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Aug 23, 2009 02:04
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Arnak posted:So a friend of mine who is a Marine officer and lives in downtown San Francisco posted the Whole Foods CEO thing on his facebook. When I pointed out that every industrialized country with socialized medicine has better healthcare at less cost, he posted this: "Your argument is flawed in that you believe we HAVE to pay for their healthcare. I do not. Nor do I expect anyone else to pay for mine." Well you see, as an invincible immortal I
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Aug 23, 2009 04:35
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Butlercide posted:all yall making GBS threads on america but my fuckin blood sugar meter comes in 6 different colors i got one with wifi that updates my blood sugar to facebook costs me all my money and all the money ill ever have but this is america dammit
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Aug 23, 2009 04:41
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Man this 'healthcare reform' crap is absolutely amazing for insurance companies. Instead of being reigned in for their horrific financial gluttony, the senate is actually piling more goodies on their plate. A mandate that people should be forced to have insurance? Nice, why stop there, how about a mandate that everyone has to buy a GM car? American band-aids for their horrific system are seriously hilarious. It's a corporations wet dream to have the government force people to buy something from their private company. Free market advocates should be having nightmares about it.
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Aug 23, 2009 21:35
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ibroxmassive posted:This is more accurate, but you don't get people voting against their own interests for fear of damaging their imaginary earnings by invoking the American Delusion. The American Dream should definately be renamed the American Delusion, you know, for accuracy and truth.
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Aug 23, 2009 23:07
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Gray Garrison posted:End of Life consultation for the Elderly is wrong. Of course it is, it's much easier to sue and legal arm twist your way to your inheritance rather than hoping your batshit realitive actually had a will they happened to put you on. Afterall, they might leave it to someone poor.
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Aug 25, 2009 23:52
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foobardog posted:you don't want us to start heckling. we used to beat each other with canes. Canes? that's nothing, in the Scottish parliment they used to have mass brawls and sword duels when debates got heated.
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Sep 10, 2009 20:35
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Heh, poor people. Who cares if they need life saving medicine they should just watch a movie to take their minds off it. At least they can afford a movie lol.
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Sep 15, 2009 22:07
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Ahahahahaha Good god whoever is lobbying for the insurance companies is a goddamned genius. UHC, public option? Naw lets just force every citizen in the country to buy our services. If they can't afford it, the government makes up the difference. What's next? The next time American car companies collapse because they make poo poo cars, are the government going to mandate that everyone must buy that type of car?  I'm sure the auto industry lobbyists will come up with something after watching the healthcare guys go at it.
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Sep 16, 2009 18:51
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Willa Rogers posted:“For us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase,” Mr. Obama said. “What it’s saying is that we’re not going to have other people carrying your burdens for anymore.” - Barak 'The former most liberal senator of America' Obama. I think your country is hosed, hth.
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Sep 20, 2009 23:19
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Aeolius posted:the problem seems to be that health insurance is pretty much incompatible with free market capitalism. a system in which the bottom line is the bottom line is no place to host organizations that can increase their profit margins by denying service, especially considering the inelasticity of healthcare due to its direct impact on quality of life. How about this analogy, imagine you are in a capitalist country which prides profit above all else. Now imagine companies getting more profit for denying healthcare to it's customers. Oh wait thats not an analogy
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Sep 23, 2009 23:04
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Whilst farting I posted:some people are concerned that doctors will run more tests than is necessary so they will get reimbursed more. Which is funny, because doctors already do that anyway. Except instead of getting reimbursed by the government it's getting reimbursed by insurance companies. Since there is no regulatory oversight as you would have in UHC it's far more rampant too. Doctors opportunistically just give you the whole shebang (like in House) and bill your insurance company. Also, you have for profit hospitals (which we don't have here in the commie land of the NHS). That's an even BIGGER incentive to wastefully perform tests and do useless procedures. Death panels? Yep, your insurance company denies claims that don't have acceptable cost-benefit ratios too. In fact, insurance companies have tighter thresholds than the government as they have profits to consider too. Also they flat out deny 25% of claims regardless, 'cause statistically people just say 'gently caress it' and pay the bill anyway (instead of playing phone warrior for a few months). This lets the insurance company pay out half as much as they woulda. Freeloaders stealing your health cares? Yep, only they go to the emergency room and can't afford it when the hospital bills them over 1000% of what the procedure actually cost. This drives costs up higher and perpetrates the cycle for the next round of freeloaders. Almost all of the stuff people say UHC suffers from, the private insurance industry does too. In fact, private insurance suffers even more severely from those issues. EDIT: And as far as the regulatory oversight is concerned, I can't really comment. Doctors don't get reimbursed the more tests they do here, the clinic or hospital gets reimbursed for the cost of materials. They don't have any incentive to wastefully perform tests either since (as I said before) they are not-for-profit. The doctors get paid a salary and such-like (http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/Default.aspx?Id=553). EDIT2: And for assisting Americans in comparison, minimum wage salary is about £13k here which gives you £1000 a month post taxes. Xachariah fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Nov 14, 2009 |
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Nov 14, 2009 16:50
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Whilst farting I posted:i agree with the rest of what you were saying but yes, this is the type of thing i'm talking about - what's to prevent doctors from overtesting resulting in higher profit margins for hospitals? is there a source for only getting reimbursed for cost of materials? that'd be key I remember reading about it while doing Health Economics last year, it's a hell of a lot more technical than what I described but the gist is mainly the same. http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/phabiocom/docs/tse/uk.pdf is a fairly in depth explanation of every facet of the matter. It also explains the free market-esque policies the Conservatives enacted to increase pricing competitiveness in the NHS via 'NHS trusts'. Xachariah fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Nov 14, 2009 |
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Nov 14, 2009 17:43
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