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GonadTheBallbarian
Jul 23, 2007


Grimey Drawer

use as many flowery bullshit filler adjectives as possible to leave us even more confused than when we started reading

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grack
Jan 10, 2012

COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!


How's the PRAT? Is the emotional response clear? How airy is the treble? What about the GRIP? Oh God, WHAT ABOUT THE GRIP?!!!

spookygonk
Apr 3, 2005
Does not give a damn


grack posted:

How's the PRAT? Is the emotional response clear? How airy is the treble? What about the GRIP? Oh God, WHAT ABOUT THE GRIP?!!!

Inky loving blackness?

GnarlyCharlie4u
Sep 23, 2007

I have an unhealthy obsession with motorcycles.

Proof


I'm more of a midnight darkness and twilight mids kinda guy myself.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004








The eigengrau of low-mids.

qirex
Feb 15, 2001



My new sub is arriving tomorrow, it's a little smaller than this one

Neurophonic
May 2, 2009


Olympic Mathlete posted:

Any update on this, fella?

I got side tracked with some work stuff and then went off on holiday. Took them with me alongside Sony WH-1000XM3. Fell asleep on the plane after watching the latest Terminator with the Ďimmersioní bass thing up pretty high (fun) and woke up several hours later with incredible pain in my ears from the pressure of the cups (really not fun).

It went away pretty fast, but has happened since even in shorter sessions of using them. Also, you canít leave them around your neck when moving between planes because the mics seem to pick each other up; took me five full minutes to realise it was me making the feedback, not the airport PA system.

They do sound infinitely better than the Sony but theyíre not lifestyle cans. The ambient sound mode is hilariously tipped toward the background noise and it is Ďenhancedí in a way that doesnít feel natural.

Iím kinda torn. They are by far the best sounding headphones Iíve listened to outside of stupidly expensive magnetic planars, and what they do is basically the same thing I do to tune and align a speaker system at any level as a day job so it is very much my poo poo, but itís a lot of cash for something that has so many problems. Iím sorta leaning to sending them back and crossing my fingers that the Nuraloop has half the bass response. If it does then that is the winner.

Iím still gonna do measurements when Iím home, of mine vs my girlfriend vs a friends results. Will post once I have done.

qirex posted:

My new sub is arriving tomorrow, it's a little smaller than this one



Iíve heard this and know who (China) makes the driver. It was laughably bad.

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull


Itís hard to imagine a Marty McFly speaker cone like that being stiff enough to work correctly. I bet most of the outer area of the cone just ends up acting like a lovely/weird surround.

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015



BobHoward posted:

Itís hard to imagine a Marty McFly speaker cone like that being stiff enough to work correctly. I bet most of the outer area of the cone just ends up acting like a lovely/weird surround.

Thats exactly what I was thinking. Like maybe with some sort of diamond/ceramic/aluminum composite something like that could work?

Panty Saluter
Jan 17, 2004

Making learning fun!


I really want to see that thing working, it's got to be hilarious

A Lone Girl Flier
Sep 29, 2009

This post is dedicated to all those who fell by the forums, for nothing is wasted, and every apparent failure is but a challenge to others.


bird with big dick posted:

Thats exactly what I was thinking. Like maybe with some sort of diamond/ceramic/aluminum composite something like that could work?

It's a really weird thing to do as well, given that rotary woofers go down to DC.

Panty Saluter
Jan 17, 2004

Making learning fun!


Or hell, banks of 15 or 18" woofers which have a proven track record and probably cheaper and easier to integrate

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006
TUBGIRL ENTHUSIAST



Stick a 15Ē cabinet inside it and just pretend itís legit.

qirex
Feb 15, 2001



New sub is good but man I got crazy room peaks at 45 and 75 hz.

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015



A Lone Girl Flier posted:

It's a really weird thing to do as well, given that rotary woofers go down to DC.

Yeah itís more of an engineering thought experiment than anything that would ever actually make sense.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Grimey Drawer

qirex posted:

New sub is good but man I got crazy room peaks at 45 and 75 hz.

70-ish is normal for a lot of rooms, with a sub placed up against a wall. It's the roof-to-ceiling standing wave.

Neurophonic
May 2, 2009


KozmoNaut posted:

70-ish is normal for a lot of rooms, with a sub placed up against a wall. It's the roof-to-ceiling standing wave.

Yep. Donít try to EQ it out unless you only ever listen in one specific 1 square foot place.

Peaks are a time problem, you need to try moving the sub. Also, if you cross it below 70Hz youíll have a hard time localising the sound anyway. Itís another reason to have strong mains that are actually full range at (relatively) large signal levels in a residential environment.

If you canít find one good location, pick the least bad one, and save up to add another sub or two so that you Ďmess it upí enough that its generally fairly flat. Or look at mounting the sub on the wall, near the mains. A flown box actually gives the most consistent coverage front to back, according to a pretty intensive multi-year study that I canít share to non-AES members.

qirex
Feb 15, 2001



The 40-45hz one is fun because it makes ancient rap music that uses the secret Marley Marl 40hz mixing console thud to reinforce the kick drums sound incredible. I have one band of parametric EQ available, I might try to dial it back a bit once I'm more used to the sound. The 75hz one is probably 1/3 as bad so I'll live with it or try elevating the sub. I have them crossed over at 90 to start with, I might dial it back to 80 depending but my mains are pretty small [that's my next project].

Panty Saluter
Jan 17, 2004

Making learning fun!


If you have an EQ you can probably temper it, just don't try to completely flatten it.

GnarlyCharlie4u
Sep 23, 2007

I have an unhealthy obsession with motorcycles.

Proof


Bass traps in the corners and hanging from the ceiling will kill both of those peaks right quick, and in a hurry. You don't even need to cover the whole ceiling, just build some 4'x3' frames and fill them with 4" or more of Roxul and hang them at least 6" from the ceiling.

Sorry if you have a ceiling fan or recessed lights though.

A Lone Girl Flier
Sep 29, 2009

This post is dedicated to all those who fell by the forums, for nothing is wasted, and every apparent failure is but a challenge to others.


Neurophonic posted:

A flown box actually gives the most consistent coverage front to back, according to a pretty intensive multi-year study that I canít share to non-AES members.

At first I was like, "This comment doesn't belong in this thread." but then I remembered how using the scientific method to improve audio is like an audiophile's kryptonite.


qirex posted:

the secret Marley Marl 40hz mixing console thud

This sounds really interesting so I gave it a quick google but came up empty. Can you tell me more about it?

Neurophonic
May 2, 2009


qirex posted:

The 40-45hz one is fun because it makes ancient rap music that uses the secret Marley Marl 40hz mixing console thud to reinforce the kick drums sound incredible. I have one band of parametric EQ available, I might try to dial it back a bit once I'm more used to the sound. The 75hz one is probably 1/3 as bad so I'll live with it or try elevating the sub. I have them crossed over at 90 to start with, I might dial it back to 80 depending but my mains are pretty small [that's my next project].

Bear in mind that where you set the crossover electronically is almost never, like 99.9% of the time, where it actually crosses acoustically. Even if itís a fourth order slope.

Itís likely that your sub is still putting out quite a lot of content up to 200Hz if you electronically cross at 90Hz. I typically talk acoustically, the electronic filter number is arbitrary without measurement or at least testing.

Try it. Turn off your mains and play something with a clear male vocal and see if you can hear it from the sub.

qirex
Feb 15, 2001



A Lone Girl Flier posted:

This sounds really interesting so I gave it a quick google but came up empty. Can you tell me more about it?
I saw it in a documentary, I think it was ďSoundbreaking,Ē they figured out the mixing console they were using made 40hz feedback if you did some specific thing to it so theyíd split the kick drum output from the sampler or drum machine into a fed back channel to reinforce it. Later they just sampled it. Most of what we think of as classic 808 bass was super processed even back in the day. I remember when one of my college friends got one and we could never get it to sound as bassy as those old songs, when you dial the tone knob all the way down it loses all the ďhitĒ and becomes a thud.

Edit: I highly recommend that documentary, itís on Hulu in the US. Itís hilarious because so much of what we think of as production techniques started as ďwe were loving around in the studio super high at like 4 in the morning and this weird thing sounded cool,Ē all the way back to the 60s.

qirex fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Feb 29, 2020

Zemyla
Aug 6, 2008

I'll take her off your hands. Pleasure doing business with you!

I buy $1 earbuds in bulk and switch them out when they crap out (about 1-3 months), and they really expand the soundstage of the podcasts I listen to while walking alongside busy streets or riding a bus. They even enhance the experience while crocheting. I highly recommend it.

A Lone Girl Flier
Sep 29, 2009

This post is dedicated to all those who fell by the forums, for nothing is wasted, and every apparent failure is but a challenge to others.


Thanks qirex!

ddogflex
Sep 19, 2004

blahblahblah

Zemyla posted:

I buy $1 earbuds in bulk and switch them out when they crap out (about 1-3 months), and they really expand the soundstage of the podcasts I listen to while walking alongside busy streets or riding a bus. They even enhance the experience while crocheting. I highly recommend it.

You should probably get something that at least isolates noise if you're using it in public so you don't have to use crazy volume to hear wtf.

Mister Kingdom
Dec 14, 2005

And the tears that fall
On the city wall
Will fade away
With the rays of morning light

Audiophilia - 1949-style.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBgC7A2C4ZY

GOLDEN THROAT!

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009



The 45 vs 33 format war is pretty interesting. Techmoan did a video on it a while ago.

https://youtu.be/hbFgVjijrHI

CaptainN
Jul 28, 2004



BBC Archive just posted an 8-minute video about audiophiles from 1959 on their Twitter page:

https://twitter.com/BBCArchive/stat...2045545474?s=09

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015



I havenít gotten my Trump bux yet I hope I get them soon as I was planning on using them to purchase high end audiophile equipment.

GonadTheBallbarian
Jul 23, 2007


Grimey Drawer

CaptainN posted:

BBC Archive just posted an 8-minute video about audiophiles from 1959 on their Twitter page:

https://twitter.com/BBCArchive/stat...2045545474?s=09

This is incredible, I love how literally nothing is different now except the degree of the insanity

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe

bird with big dick posted:

I havenít gotten my Trump bux yet I hope I get them soon as I was planning on using them to purchase high end audiophile equipment.

you going to buy half a cable?

Josh Lyman
May 24, 2009





I was looking locally to buy some speakers on a budget. From what I can tell from old reviews, the Polk is the best option of these 3?

-These Polk speakers that are 31"x7.5"x10.25" for $35. I believe they are the RT8.


-Sony LBT-D105 with what look like 3 way speakers for $45


-JBL G300 pair for $80




Regarding receivers, $50 only gets you something from 15 years ago and $100 gets you 10 years ago. Stereo amplifiers aren't much better. One intriguing $100 listing is a Yamaha RX-V2700 which was $1,700 in 2006. Would I be better off buying a new budget stereo amplifier? Any recommendations there?

Josh Lyman fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Apr 16, 2020

evobatman
Jul 30, 2006

it means nothing, but says everything!

Pillbug

I have the RX-V1700, which is the little brother of the 2700, and it is a monster soundwise. These were designed and built without compromise, and there is lots of stuff to google about them. Would highly and happily recommend the 2700 at that price, it will beat any new budget amplifier handily.

evobatman fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Apr 16, 2020

spookygonk
Apr 3, 2005
Does not give a damn


Josh Lyman posted:

One intriguing $100 listing is a Yamaha RX-V2700 which was $1,700 in 2006. Would I be better off buying a new budget stereo amplifier? Any recommendations there?

The 2700 does 'plain' stereo very well indeed:
https://www.avforums.com/reviews/ya...iew.11#anchor-4

qirex
Feb 15, 2001



140 watts x 7 into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.04% THD is very respectable by today's standards, Yamamha's current flagship can't even do that. AV receivers, even really good ones, have poo poo resale. I had a Sony ES from 2008 I couldn't even get $40 for on Craigslist so it ended up at Goodwill.

GreenBuckanneer
Sep 15, 2007




So I was thinking of getting a Vinyl player, but IDK which one is decent for a person who'd be thinking of playing through a 5.1 receiver, but isn't also like break the bank worthy. Like $200 tops probably is my limit. Any suggestions?

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006
TUBGIRL ENTHUSIAST



I'm happy enough with my Audio Technica 120X that doesn't run much higher than that, but yeah if you're buying new that's pretty much the range of players you want to be looking at. You can replace the stylus down the line if you want more too. Ignore the Crosleys, Victrolas etc.

If it's a 5.1 receiver, check if it's got a dedicated PHONO IN on it. If not, you'll either need a turntable with a line out (which is pretty common among modern decks) or you'll need to buy a phono preamp too. They can run fairly cheap for something basic, but it'll eat out of your budget further.

Josh Lyman
May 24, 2009





evobatman posted:

I have the RX-V1700, which is the little brother of the 2700, and it is a monster soundwise. These were designed and built without compromise, and there is lots of stuff to google about them. Would highly and happily recommend the 2700 at that price, it will beat any new budget amplifier handily.

spookygonk posted:

The 2700 does 'plain' stereo very well indeed:
https://www.avforums.com/reviews/ya...iew.11#anchor-4

qirex posted:

140 watts x 7 into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.04% THD is very respectable by today's standards, Yamamha's current flagship can't even do that. AV receivers, even really good ones, have poo poo resale. I had a Sony ES from 2008 I couldn't even get $40 for on Craigslist so it ended up at Goodwill.
Thanks for your feedback. I guess I'll see if I can pick it up.

Back to the speaker question, these Infinity RS-5 are available for $100. Good pairing with that Yamaha receiver? The seller said the top speaker on the left could use a foam replacement but otherwise they're fine. If it's not too bad, I'm not really interested in refoaming unless it will make a substantial different. $200 is more than I was intending to spend on this project but I can make it work if it's justified by quality.


edit: The Yamaha receiver got sold . Between that and the Infinity Qb deal that I missed out on, I almost want to give up for now.

Josh Lyman fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Apr 16, 2020

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Neurophonic
May 2, 2009


qirex posted:

140 watts x 7 into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.04% THD is very respectable by today's standards, Yamamha's current flagship can't even do that. AV receivers, even really good ones, have poo poo resale. I had a Sony ES from 2008 I couldn't even get $40 for on Craigslist so it ended up at Goodwill.

None of these numbers mean anything without a lot more qualifying info - stimulus type, crest factor, broadband or shaped noise, length of sweep or tone, transfer function and suchlike.

If all thatís shown is a wattage number then you can bet your rear end itís calculated, and the distortion numbers shown are typically only from small signals. Publicised power ratings are usually at 10-30% THD when you actually test the units, even with a 9dB CF stimulus or more. Likewise itís rarely given with all channels driven - you might find more in the manual or engineers/architect specification document or service manual if you can find one.

Of course thatís also fine because no speaker on earth is really ď8 ohmsĒ. Thatís a nominal value, and where that line is drawn is entirely up to the manufacturer.

It is however pretty easy to feed 1v into the unit, measure the voltage output at the terminals, and determine the voltage gain from that. Likewise you can do an impedance sweep of any speaker using REW software and a resistor, plus a known added mass (like a coin) and some tape.

Do it with a small stimulus voltage and a large one and compare, ideally with a mic to compare frequency response and distortion levels too. A cheap Behringer or Sonarworks and any basic soundcard will do - you might be surprised how everything changes when you turn stuff up.

The fact this poo poo is actually science tends to be one major reason that ďpassionateĒ types suggest just listening, and that lends itself to the spiral of ďgolden earsĒ.

On that note I still havenít measured the output of these Nuraphones because I canít get a good seal around my mix capsules with the weird foam tips they use, and my access to a dummy head and torso is restricted because of the coronavirus - but it will get done eventually. For what itís worth, Iíve redone my profile three times over as many months and itís been almost identical each time, so it isnít just randomised.

@Josh Lyman: if the speaker surround is cracked or decomposed then changing it will make a big difference. Just try to find the same type of surround material or youíll make it not play nice with the other cones. You can also do some repair on the cheap with some layered torn strips of j cloth or green Rizla paper, and PVA glue. Looks like poo poo but works. Do it from the rear if you can.

Neurophonic fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Apr 16, 2020

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