Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Alan_Shore
Dec 2, 2004



TheMadMilkman posted:

Good enough for human ears happens a lot earlier than audiophiles would care to recognize. But when you’re convinced that the orientation of your ground cable is audible, you’ve already completely lost perspective.

As for DAT vs Minidisc vs CD, there was a lot of arguments back in the 90s about DAT vs Minidisc as a replacement for cassette tapes and their relative strengths and weaknesses.

I do still wish minidisc had seen wider adoption, and fully understand why it didn’t. And it really didn’t stand a chance against MP3 players. But I loved their size, and while their strongest functionality is fully replaced by playlists, I do miss physical mix media sometimes.

Not enough to deal with it, but I do miss it.

Get back into it! Grab a deal off eBay, buy a couple of different coloured MDs, and make some albums/mixtapes. It's surprisingly fun! Not a hassle at all (as long as your PC has optical out)

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

movax
Aug 30, 2008



Yuns posted:

There's a new king of DAC SINAD now. WolfX-700, a Chinese audio reviewer, just tested a DAC at 125 dB SINAD at his blog on L7AudioLab. He's under an NDA as far as manufacturer name and model go but expect to see ASR posters dumping their Topping D90 and SMSL S400 and Gustard X16/A18 soon for the new measurement king notwithstanding the fact that there is no audible difference and that even if there were an audible difference it would be gone once pushed through any amp.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-new-king.21444/

Good -- the D90 is a great DAC that isn't absurdly priced and if people are going to shed them for a new numbers king, take full advantage of it! Only used mine w/ optical in, but it's bullet-proof.

qirex
Feb 15, 2001



Reminder the nine dollar Apple DAC scored 99 dB SINAD and 0.001% THD.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Did anyone ever take the Airpods apart and try to measure them?

Neurophonic
May 2, 2009


Combat Pretzel posted:

Did anyone ever take the Airpods apart and try to measure them?

Why would you need to take them apart? So long as a dummy head and torso system is used with a decent fit, and has been used to measure other headphones for comparison (because individual ears have vastly different head related transfer functions) then you get usable data with minimal effort.

That said I’m actually quite surprised there isn’t a dataset available online already. Especially for the Pro model.

Edit: scratch that, soundguys.com have the goods. Forgive the screenshots;



I finally get access to the one at university again in the coming weeks, but I don’t have AirPods to test. I suppose I could buy and return a set, but that seems like a lot of effort. I will finally get to do Nuraphones, although in hindsight the patent documentation and citations told me everything I need to know there.

Neurophonic fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Mar 22, 2021

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Neurophonic posted:

That said I’m actually quite surprised there isn’t a dataset available online already. Especially for the Pro model.
I found something.

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools/compare/apple-airpods-pro-truly-wireless-vs-samsung-galaxy-buds-plus-truly-wireless/1625/1791

I guess I'll be keeping my Galaxy Buds+ some more.

Neurophonic
May 2, 2009



Here you see the huge difference that fit and ear profile makes. Also, it’s interesting that they use a 9 kHz cutoff. Technically that is the limitation of the HATS for things like HRTF measurement, so it’s kind of ok? But the data gathered above there isn’t useless.

Oh, and these are small signal measurements. I’m more interested in response curve at high drive levels personally, as well as distortion profiles.

GonadTheBallbarian
Jul 23, 2007





Oh. Yeah, the buds+ are good tws.

TWS in general are pretty poo poo from a construction perspective, so just run them into the ground. If you really don't like how they sound, get an app like SoundID or wavelet to EQ them

synthetik
Feb 28, 2007

I forgive you, Will. Will you forgive me?


Lexus IS WAX has a turntable in the glove compartment.

https://jalopnik.com/the-lexus-is-wax-edition-is-the-pinnacle-of-car-audio-s-1846530785

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

MAYBE IF MY WEAK NONSENSICAL "BURNS" ARE CONVOLUTED ENOUGH, NOBODY WILL NOTICE THAT IN SPITE OF BEING A CONDESCENDING TAINTSMEAR IN EVERY THREAD I POST IN, I HAVE LITERALLY NEVER HAD ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY INSIGHTFUL OR FUNNY TO SAy.


That will be ruined by the first passenger stuffing their drink bottle or other junk inside without looking first or caring.

grack
Jan 10, 2012

COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!


DancingShade posted:

That will be ruined by the first passenger stuffing their drink bottle or other junk inside without looking first or caring.

Yeah, and what an awful tragedy that will be.

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

MAYBE IF MY WEAK NONSENSICAL "BURNS" ARE CONVOLUTED ENOUGH, NOBODY WILL NOTICE THAT IN SPITE OF BEING A CONDESCENDING TAINTSMEAR IN EVERY THREAD I POST IN, I HAVE LITERALLY NEVER HAD ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY INSIGHTFUL OR FUNNY TO SAy.

Imagine the giant vinyl scratch caused by the first pothole or speedbump when listening to your rare vintage King Crimson album that you tracked down in some second hand store in Morocco.

Zorak of Michigan
Jun 10, 2006

Waiting for his chance

The problem is the placement. They could solve all these problems given more volume for dampening devices. A real audiophile would replace the passenger seat with the turntable assembly, complete with its own springs, shocks, gimbals, etc.

shortspecialbus
Feb 16, 2006

WOULD YOU ACCOMPANY ME ON A BRISK WALK? I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK WITH YOU!!




Zorak of Michigan posted:

The problem is the placement. They could solve all these problems given more volume for dampening devices. A real audiophile would replace the passenger seat with the turntable assembly, complete with its own springs, shocks, gimbals, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTQyyhZXO8M

qirex
Feb 15, 2001




quote:

Based at the foot of Mount Etna in Sicily, the boutique brand has been making high-end amps since 2009 with the mantra ‘let your ears be your guide’. The Embrace, a replacement for the company's best selling Alchemy ‘hybrid’ integrated amplifier, uses separate tube preamp and power stages – a decision the company describes as being derived from the isolation most people have experienced over the past year, with the hope that the amp will "embrace" both music and the listener. Audiozen says its choice of components is meticulous, with the preamp containing two NOS tubes, ClarityCap ESA series polypropylene capacitors and a transistor power stage. The power supply section houses three toroidal transformers: a50 VA pair dedicated to the preamplifier section and a larger 300 VA unit connected to the power stage. On the front panel, the power switch has been labelled ‘hug power’ and features a stand-by setting to gently heat the core of the tubes before switching on.

The volume knob has been re-dubbed ‘hug intensity’; the VU-meters are ‘hug meters’ (with the level of backlighting controlled by a ‘hug meters light’ dial), and when selecting between the four RCA stereo inputs, you can use the amenably named ‘your choice’ switch. But rest assured, it also comes with a remote. The sleek aluminium front panel is contrasted by wooden sides made from sustainable Asian doussié wood and a transparent perspex cover on the top letting you view all the inner workings. The Embrace is available in black or silver and costs £2830 ($3890).

At least they look nice, also refreshing to see a tube amp that isn't just "LOOK AT MY TUBES" set dressing from a Frankenstein movie

Yuns
Aug 19, 2000

There is an idea of a Yuns, some kind of abstraction, but there is no real me, only an entity, something illusory, and though I can hide my cold gaze and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable: I simply am not there.


I know I've ranted about "subjective objectivists" who bench race audio numbers to seek inaudible improvements. But that got me thinking about what would be the cheapest system you could get that would be as audibly good as the most numerically perfect setting aside source (assume PC here) and setting aside output device since that's hugely room/preference dependent.

I know the current ASR SINAD kings would be the Benchmark AHB2 amp (113 dB for $2999) and Okto Dac8 Stereo (122 dB for about $1377) -> $4376

What if we substituted the March Audio P122 (100 dB for $595) and Khadas Tone Board 1 (110 dB for $79.90) -> $674.90

If you don't want a bare circuit board, the Topping D10s (112 dB at $110) and Loxjie D30 (114 dB at $170) provide better performance than the Khadas for not much more. If you want to go cheaper than the March Audio, Buckeye Audio sells Hypex based amps for as low as $499 for a stereo P252 model (95 dB SINAD) and a NAD C320BEE amp (90 dB SINAD) can be found for $240 shipped on eBay.

Could anyone hear the difference provided that we didn't have an impedance mismatch and that the P122 power output was enough for the speaker? In fact could anyone hear the difference between a C320BEE and Khadas ($320 total) and a Benchmark/Okto setup ($4376) if your power needs were less than 70 watts.

Alternatively, what is the most you could spend for the same performance? We have the Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC (121 dB at $11,500) and Mola Mola Kula ($13,800). Though to be fair, you can get the DAC integrated in the Kula for only $8,282 for a total of $22,082.

Yuns fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Mar 29, 2021

qirex
Feb 15, 2001



All you need for "audibly transparent" is around -96 db which is the inherent noise floor for 16/44. A MiniDSP SHD Power would do it in a single box but if I wanted to get cheaper you could do a Raspberry Pi with a Khardas hat and a Buckeye NC252 for around $600. If you didn't need the output of a Purifi you could build a Hypex amp even cheaper.

If I was going to spend a lot I'd probably just get an all in one like the NAD M33 or a Naim Uniti Star but that would mean I was spending $10k+ on speakers and treatment which I doubt I ever will. The most expensive component I'm looking at now is an Anthem 540.

qirex fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Mar 29, 2021

Neurophonic
May 2, 2009


You’re only doing it properly if you take the highest SINAD rated amplifier on the market and use it to drive a soft dome tweeter that hits obscene amounts of distortion at a few volts of input.

At least the folks getting JMLC or spherical based horns turned in nice wood by actual craftsmen are spending their money on something reasonably sensible. Assuming their listening position is several metres away, in a large room, of course.

This is my favourite madness of late. They call it an “is wall” speaker instead of “in wall”. It’s 4-way with 8 drivers - all off the shelf pro audio components with the most costly in the region of $400 a piece at RRP - in each multiple entry horn. I would 100% actually build this, just for the impact value:

qirex
Feb 15, 2001



The main reason I find "zero chasing" so stupid is because most of what you hear is your speakers and room, and if there is any audible noise in your system it's probably the result of your house wiring and not inferior electronics in the signal chain. That said it kind of makes sense that online bench racing is so popular at a time when you can't actually have people over to hear your awesome system.

Yuns
Aug 19, 2000

There is an idea of a Yuns, some kind of abstraction, but there is no real me, only an entity, something illusory, and though I can hide my cold gaze and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable: I simply am not there.


My favorite recent ASR post is the guy who was considering the Gustard X16 or SMSL SU-9 but was leaning toward the SU-9 for its tube emulation mode. So you want the most distortion free DAC possible in order to emulate distortion?

Seriously, after a certain point things like readability of the display and ergos of the controls are way more important than squeezing that last dB of SINAD or slight better IMD out of a chipset. SMSL, Topping and Gustard are crushing it as far as getting the closest to theoretical performance of their AKM/ESS chips but are falling down still on usability, features and software vs say RME. Even though it doesn't measure the best, the MiniDSP SHD pretty much has the best set of features I've seen on any reasonably priced DAC and because it comes with support for DIRAC and can be just as easily used with REW it will make far more of an impact on sound.

Totally unrelated aside but I now have an Intel NUC 10 i7 serving as a Roon Core and Plex Server which is attached to an external 10 TB drive and 1 TB SSD. I'm pretty happy to move those functions off my main computer. I have Volumio on the SHD set up with the Roon Endpoint extension.

Yuns fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Mar 29, 2021

qirex
Feb 15, 2001



How hardware intense is Roon Core? I have a Mac Mini I've been using as a combo computer and server and was planning on using that. My music will be on a NAS pretty soon and while I know you can run Roon on Intel NAS they don't recommend it.

Yuns
Aug 19, 2000

There is an idea of a Yuns, some kind of abstraction, but there is no real me, only an entity, something illusory, and though I can hide my cold gaze and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable: I simply am not there.


qirex posted:

How hardware intense is Roon Core? I have a Mac Mini I've been using as a combo computer and server and was planning on using that. My music will be on a NAS pretty soon and while I know you can run Roon on Intel NAS they don't recommend it.
It's not really very hardware intensive. Even an i3 should run it so long as you don't use Roon's internal DSP and don't have a super huge library. I know they can even run it using ROCK on the Synology NASs. In comparison Plex is always using a shitload of CPU resources. Just streamed a little to check. CPU spiked to 8% for just a second and then stayed at 1% CPU while streaming. The only reason I went with an i7 was so I could run other server software (Plex etc.) simultaneously with Roon Core.

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011





Neurophonic posted:


This is my favourite madness of late. They call it an “is wall” speaker instead of “in wall”. It’s 4-way with 8 drivers - all off the shelf pro audio components with the most costly in the region of $400 a piece at RRP - in each multiple entry horn. I would 100% actually build this, just for the impact value:


Neurophonic
May 2, 2009


https://aforara.com/

Go wild on their instagram, if you’re keen you could very well determine the components used and make an educated guess at the horn geometry to DIY.

Josh Lyman
May 24, 2009





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyobCL8JMKg

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007




I love dunking on Darko as much as the next person here but I think this is his April Fools video. One of the bonsai channels I follow published one about the founder quitting to become a dj

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

MAYBE IF MY WEAK NONSENSICAL "BURNS" ARE CONVOLUTED ENOUGH, NOBODY WILL NOTICE THAT IN SPITE OF BEING A CONDESCENDING TAINTSMEAR IN EVERY THREAD I POST IN, I HAVE LITERALLY NEVER HAD ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY INSIGHTFUL OR FUNNY TO SAy.

I just want to know where I can get indoor plants that emphasise the sub 50hz range.

Wasabi the J
Jan 23, 2008


You'd likely need elephant ears to hear the difference.

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

MAYBE IF MY WEAK NONSENSICAL "BURNS" ARE CONVOLUTED ENOUGH, NOBODY WILL NOTICE THAT IN SPITE OF BEING A CONDESCENDING TAINTSMEAR IN EVERY THREAD I POST IN, I HAVE LITERALLY NEVER HAD ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY INSIGHTFUL OR FUNNY TO SAy.

Wasabi the J posted:

You'd likely need elephant ears to hear the difference.

Is there an audiophile-certified surgeon who can crudely stitch those to my head?

Neurophonic
May 2, 2009


Wasabi the J posted:

You'd likely need elephant ears to hear the difference.

Thanks for making me actually look into this on my bathroom break. Clearly using my academic access for what I actually need to be doing...

Anyway, here’s an open access paper:
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s00359-004-0553-0.pdf



It looks like they’re not obscene. 120 dBZ SPL between 14 Hz and 35 Hz at 1 metre is within the realms of the infra-subs I use for testing aerospace equipment (and sometimes, really fun gigs).

The hearing threshold of a 7-year old Asian elephant was determined to be 60 dB at 17 Hz and 65 dB at 16 Hz in the only test I can find. Here’s the human curve:


So yeah, even though they have massive ears and cochlea compared to us, it looks like our torso and bone conduction means we aren’t a million miles away in terms of perception.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Jeherrin
Jun 7, 2012


Neurophonic posted:

Thanks for making me actually look into this on my bathroom break. Clearly using my academic access for what I actually need to be doing...

Anyway, here’s an open access paper:
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s00359-004-0553-0.pdf



It looks like they’re not obscene. 120 dBZ SPL between 14 Hz and 35 Hz at 1 metre is within the realms of the infra-subs I use for testing aerospace equipment (and sometimes, really fun gigs).

The hearing threshold of a 7-year old Asian elephant was determined to be 60 dB at 17 Hz and 65 dB at 16 Hz in the only test I can find. Here’s the human curve:


So yeah, even though they have massive ears and cochlea compared to us, it looks like our torso and bone conduction means we aren’t a million miles away in terms of perception.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

You're the hero we deserve.

Unreal_One
Aug 18, 2010

Now you know how I don't like to use the sit-down gun, but this morning we just don't have time for mucking about.



Wasabi the J posted:

You'd likely need elephant ears to hear the difference.

I liked the joke, at least.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



Unreal_One posted:

I liked the joke, at least.

Its a good one.

grack
Jan 10, 2012

COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!


Wasabi the J posted:

You'd likely need elephant ears to hear the difference.



You rang?

Wasabi the J
Jan 23, 2008



Firstly, elephants communicate with infrasound.

Secondly

Neurophonic
May 2, 2009


drat right they do, which is why it was interesting to see that we experience roughly the same infrasound levels. Auditory processing in the brain is doing a whole heap of legwork for us and them.

Fun fact: the subs I mentioned above are designed by the same guy who built a special servo-driven box to test that elephant infrasound theory out in the wild:

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/way-down-deep-ii-servodrive-contrabass

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007



Can’t talk about infrasound without mentioning rotary subwoofers. Those things are wild. I do recall a guy on AVS that installed one (in the theater that he had excavated under his garage— dude was kinda wild) and, after testing it, found out that his neighbors were convinced there was an earthquake. Now THAT is bass you can feel.

Neurophonic
May 2, 2009


TheMadMilkman posted:

Can’t talk about infrasound without mentioning rotary subwoofers. Those things are wild. I do recall a guy on AVS that installed one (in the theater that he had excavated under his garage— dude was kinda wild) and, after testing it, found out that his neighbors were convinced there was an earthquake. Now THAT is bass you can feel.

The cost of those is madness but I do fully want one. They’re a bitch to install correctly though, you need a massive rigid cavity into the room.

If we’re talking physical actuation, I have a bunch of these that I still haven’t figured out a use for, partly due to being in rented accommodation:
https://www.powersoft.com/en/products/transducers/mover/

Did consider mounting them to my office chair at one point but I haven’t had access to the 3D printer at the labs to make a mounting apparatus.

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011





Neurophonic posted:

The cost of those is madness but I do fully want one. They’re a bitch to install correctly though, you need a massive rigid cavity into the room.

If we’re talking physical actuation, I have a bunch of these that I still haven’t figured out a use for, partly due to being in rented accommodation:
https://www.powersoft.com/en/products/transducers/mover/

Did consider mounting them to my office chair at one point but I haven’t had access to the 3D printer at the labs to make a mounting apparatus.

Which was the club somewhere in Europe which had the wall of subs built into I think concrete poured cabinets? You reckon with a shitload of those Movers you could produce something similar? Like an entire wall that moves and acts as a cone?

I was also going to ask about a larger version of these things and have spotted that it was Powersoft who made those too, M-Force. Someone has to be insane and rich enough to try this, surely?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Dirt Road Junglist
Oct 8, 2010

There's a ghost in me
Who wants to say I'm sorry
Doesn't mean I'm sorry






Olympic Mathlete posted:

Which was the club somewhere in Europe which had the wall of subs built into I think concrete poured cabinets? You reckon with a shitload of those Movers you could produce something similar? Like an entire wall that moves and acts as a cone?

I was also going to ask about a larger version of these things and have spotted that it was Powersoft who made those too, M-Force. Someone has to be insane and rich enough to try this, surely?

Are you thinking of Dillinja's Valve Sound System?

https://dillinja.co.uk/bio.html

quote:

Officially the worlds loudest Drum and Bass oriented sound system, at a staggering 96k, the Valve sound system was designed from the ground up to showcase the Valve sound and better represent the full Drum and Bass sound and enabled ravers to be truly immersed in the sound.

I dunno if that's the same setup the label I work for tried to bring on tour in the US, but it ended up being impossible because of the voltage differences.

Documentary on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt2Pw8CSt4g

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply