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dealmaster
Dec 24, 2005

Somebody call for an exterminator?

Mister Kingdom posted:

Wasn't there a speaker wire test where they used a cut up extension cord versus Monster cables?

I think it was actually coat hangers.

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mr. nobody
Sep 25, 2004

Net contents 12 fluid oz.

dealmaster posted:

I think it was actually coat hangers.

It was.

http://consumerist.com/362926/do-co...-monster-cables

Mister Kingdom
Dec 14, 2005

And the tears that fall
On the city wall
Will fade away
With the rays of morning light


That cracks me up. I wonder how many of the "audiophiles" said something like, "I knew it. I was just playing along."?

mr. nobody
Sep 25, 2004

Net contents 12 fluid oz.

I imagine their debunking of double blind testing is along the lines of "well clearly double blind testing does not work because the subjects aren't choosing the clearly superior <whatever>"

coolskillrex remix
Jan 1, 2007

gorsh


Ive ranted about this before. I hate how popular this story was. Its some random rear end guy on audioholics telling a story about a test he conducted. What a great source... if he had reported that the monster cables sounded great everyone would have discredited it, but because hes saying they couldnt tell the difference between monster cable and a coat hanger its quoted everywhere. Those monster cables are also the cheapest of their "speaker cables" in terms of terminated with banana plugs + techflex. If someone bought the monster cable 1000 speaker cables i wouldnt hate on them, they just wanted something that looked okay and had banana plugs and didnt want to do it themselves. Im not saying that higher end monster cables are in any way worth it, but of all the monster cables to be demonized they choose arguably the best bargains out there?

A much much better story is when mike lavigne ( http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/f...49020&read&3&4& ) had his transport opus $70,000 speaker cables replaced with $200 monster cables and couldnt tell the difference. This test was held by a friend of his on AVS forum. Mike lavigne confirmed the story. Maybe ill find a link to it later

Mister Kingdom
Dec 14, 2005

And the tears that fall
On the city wall
Will fade away
With the rays of morning light

Omegaslast posted:

If someone bought the monster cable 1000 speaker cables i wouldnt hate on them, they just wanted something that looked okay and had banana plugs and didnt want to do it themselves. Im not saying that higher end monster cables are in any way worth it, but of all the monster cables to be demonized they choose arguably the best bargains out there?

If you are willing to pay $100 for a pair of cables, excuse me, audio interconnects, that do the same job as a much cheaper alternative (not necessarily coat hangers, but actual run-of-the-mill cables), then you should be prepared to be ridiculed. Who's going to see them anyway?

That Genuine Stank
Apr 25, 2004

by Ralp


Mister Kingdom posted:

If you are willing to pay $100 for a pair of cables, excuse me, audio interconnects, that do the same job as a much cheaper alternative (not necessarily coat hangers, but actual run-of-the-mill cables), then you should be prepared to be ridiculed. Who's going to see them anyway?

Because not everybody pushes their speakers against the wall?

On the other hand, that is not a guitar strap hanging from the speaker pictured below

Only registered members can see post attachments!

coolskillrex remix
Jan 1, 2007

gorsh

Mister Kingdom posted:

If you are willing to pay $100 for a pair of cables, excuse me, audio interconnects, that do the same job as a much cheaper alternative (not necessarily coat hangers, but actual run-of-the-mill cables), then you should be prepared to be ridiculed. Who's going to see them anyway?

They arent interconnects, consumerist doesnt know what theyre talking about. Monster cable 1000 come in flavors of speaker cables, interconnectors, hdmi, probably component cables too, they were comparing speaker cables not interconnects.

Mister Kingdom
Dec 14, 2005

And the tears that fall
On the city wall
Will fade away
With the rays of morning light

stizu posted:

Because not everybody pushes their speakers against the wall?

Regardless, unless you just like the way they look, the only people who are going to give a poo poo are other audiophiles.

sleepwalkers
Dec 7, 2008




Omegaslast posted:

Ive ranted about this before. I hate how popular this story was. Its some random rear end guy on audioholics telling a story about a test he conducted. What a great source... if he had reported that the monster cables sounded great everyone would have discredited it, but because hes saying they couldnt tell the difference between monster cable and a coat hanger its quoted everywhere. Those monster cables are also the cheapest of their "speaker cables" in terms of terminated with banana plugs + techflex. If someone bought the monster cable 1000 speaker cables i wouldnt hate on them, they just wanted something that looked okay and had banana plugs and didnt want to do it themselves. Im not saying that higher end monster cables are in any way worth it, but of all the monster cables to be demonized they choose arguably the best bargains out there?

A much much better story is when mike lavigne ( http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/f...49020&read&3&4& ) had his transport opus $70,000 speaker cables replaced with $200 monster cables and couldnt tell the difference. This test was held by a friend of his on AVS forum. Mike lavigne confirmed the story. Maybe ill find a link to it later
That's a helluva premium to pay for the sake of appearance.
So if they're paying that much more for cable that looks good/can't be arsed to make it themselves/actually think it's noticeably better, they should expect to be ridiculed.
I'm not going to claim to be an audiophile of any sort, and I'm pretty positive you know more about this stuff than I do, but I always thought the general consensus among the sane was that the Monster cable you buy in stores such as Best Buy, Monster charged far more than they should for cabling that isn't really noticeably better than the el cheap-o stuff?

amenenema
Feb 9, 2003



Let's try this from the other side.

You're all fairly rational individuals re: the audiophile stuff. What do you think the rational ceiling is for the cost of a private, one-chair listening room?

In other words, at what price point are you just wasting money/be unable to tell a difference double-blind? Equipment would include a SACD or other source, receiver/amp, interconnects, speaker wire, and of course a pair of speakers. YOu can assume we already have a chair.

I'm betting $1000-1500. Just guessing though, wouldn't be able to give examples of equipment.

Megiddo
Apr 27, 2004

Unicorns bite, but their bites feel GOOD.

RexSS345 posted:

Let's try this from the other side.

You're all fairly rational individuals re: the audiophile stuff. What do you think the rational ceiling is for the cost of a private, one-chair listening room?

In other words, at what price point are you just wasting money/be unable to tell a difference double-blind? Equipment would include a SACD or other source, receiver/amp, interconnects, speaker wire, and of course a pair of speakers. YOu can assume we already have a chair.

I'm betting $1000-1500. Just guessing though, wouldn't be able to give examples of equipment.
Well, in my opinion the money should go into the acoustics of the room first, then the speakers, then the amp, then the source gear, then the cables.

Assuming the use of competent gear, the biggest factors are room acoustics and speakers. An extremely live (or extremely dead) room with lots of resonant frequencies is going to ruin the sound of any speakers you use. Speakers are the most variable piece of actual gear in the chain - different frequency response characteristics, speaker size/number/composition being some big variables between different speakers.

You could easily spend $10,000 on the room, $15,000 on some B&W 801D speakers, and use some basic pro gear (say, a QSC amp and Denon pro CD player) and some homemade cables (Belden cable with Neutrik or Switchcraft connectors) for everything else and you'll hear a world of difference between that and a random room with $1000 speakers with the same basic pro gear.

Right now I'm listening to Polk R20 bookshelf speakers through an Onkyo TX-SR304 and a Creative E-Mu 1212m sound card. In another room I have Infinity Reference 4s and a Kenwood VR-407 that I mostly use for listening to records with a vintage Technics D3. I've heard much better, but it's all I can afford at home and it sounds pretty decent for normal listening and at levels that won't disturb my neighbors.

Lazlo Nibble
Jan 9, 2004

It was Weasleby, by God! At last I had the miserable blighter precisely where I wanted him!

RexSS345 posted:

You're all fairly rational individuals re: the audiophile stuff. What do you think the rational ceiling is for the cost of a private, one-chair listening room?

In other words, at what price point are you just wasting money/be unable to tell a difference double-blind?
You just answered your own question. IMO if someone claims they're looking for the best sounding equipment, they haven't wasted their money as long as they can actually tell which equipment they think is actually better sounding in a double-blind test. The point at which this happens is going to vary from person to person -- there's no objective ceiling to it.

Where audiophiles veer from rationality isn't in what gear they buy or how much money they spend, it's in claiming "X is different from Y" but refusing to validate that claim under controlled conditions. If you do a double-blind test of $10,000 speaker cables vs. $250 speaker cables and consistently choose the expensive cables as the better-sounding ones, by all means, spend the $10k if the difference is really worth that much to you.

amenenema
Feb 9, 2003



...and I'm an idiot for not even considering the room setup.

Neurophonic
May 2, 2009


Megiddo posted:



Yes, upgrade the clock and the power supply, surely those are the weak spots of Behringer gear, and nothing from dbx, Ashly, EV, Rane, or even Peavey would be better designed. And FCC certified.

Actually, the DCX2496 is a surprisingly high end bit of kit for the money. The interface is horrible but the components certainly aren't.

If you're bothered, there's a pretty detailed breakdown of the DCX2496 vs. a BSS SoundWeb and a DBX DriveRack (admittedly the low budget PA version) here:
http://forum.speakerplans.com/insid...872.html#252872

qirex
Feb 15, 2001



If I was building a listening room I'd probably spend more money on the furniture than the amps. You can get a killer pro amp like a Crown XTi for a grand.

Not an Anthem
Apr 27, 2003

I'm a fucking pain machine and if you even touch my fucking car I WILL FUCKING DESTROY YOU.


A building supply/rat's nest of recycled construction business my work frequents got a gutted house from some weird audiophile. They sold me a ton of hardware for 10$ each but I missed the Nakamichi decks some guy grabbed the day before and gave me a bunch of "audiophile" cabling for free. The guy's interior was taken out and preserved thinking they could resell it.. its these monstrous room islands made of 3/4" MDF covered with fake grey birds eye maple veneer. The guy made crazy custom furniture enclosures for his giant powered Infinity speakers, his two matching rear projection TVs and tons of other gaudy poo poo.

Hilarious. Anyways I got an adcom line conditioner for a couple bucks so I am going to see how much radon warmth or whatever fancy business it helps with.

Megiddo
Apr 27, 2004

Unicorns bite, but their bites feel GOOD.

Neurophonic posted:

Actually, the DCX2496 is a surprisingly high end bit of kit for the money. The interface is horrible but the components certainly aren't.

If you're bothered, there's a pretty detailed breakdown of the DCX2496 vs. a BSS SoundWeb and a DBX DriveRack (admittedly the low budget PA version) here:
http://forum.speakerplans.com/insid...872.html#252872
There's a lot more to it than the components used. Uwe Boll uses the same equipment that other filmmakers use, but makes shithouse films. The specs that count aren't the ones of the chips, it's the end result. Compare the specs sheets between the dbx PA DriveRack and the Berhringer and the only one that gives specs that even make sense or aren't misleading is the dbx.

cubicle gangster
Jun 26, 2005

magda, make the tea


I thought I was maybe being a bit silly when I spent an extra 10 on a cable because it looked better than the cheaper alternative. (allegedly sounds better too, but theres no way i'm going to be able to tell)

This is amazing.

Neurophonic
May 2, 2009


qirex posted:

If I was building a listening room I'd probably spend more money on the furniture than the amps. You can get a killer pro amp like a Crown XTi for a grand.

A Crown XTi is far from a pro amp. Up until recently it had a huge failure rate due to the dodgy, DSP, and they don't put out anywhere near their rated power. Bench tests for the supposed 4000 model are abysmal. It also sounds a bit like somebody's taking a piss when the sensitivity is up.

If you want to look at PA amps for home use, check out Chevin Research. They're discontinued but the quality of the sound is unbeatable.

Megiddo posted:

There's a lot more to it than the components used. Uwe Boll uses the same equipment that other filmmakers use, but makes shithouse films. The specs that count aren't the ones of the chips, it's the end result. Compare the specs sheets between the dbx PA DriveRack and the Berhringer and the only one that gives specs that even make sense or aren't misleading is the dbx.

I'm hardly Behringer's biggest fan, and use DBX processing myself. However the PA model of DriveRack is utter crap, and they're only viable options when you get the 260 or above.

Behringer make an awful lot of poo poo but the DCX is actually a blinding bit of kit for the money, and to best it in terms of processing and signal quality you have to spend a fair bit more for say a BSS OmniDrive or an XTA DP series- which in my experience is worth it simply to avoid the sneers at the badge on the front and to never have to use the god awful UI.

I was fairly surprised to see audiophiles all over the DCX, because I thought they'd be more into spunking a few grand on say an XTA DP448 or Dolby Lake instead of a couple of hundred on some cheap Chinese tat.

Mothrog
Oct 21, 2008


Korendian Leader posted:

The ultimate audiophile setup, all covered in special ers paper. Directly soldered to the mains for maximum audio smoothness:



http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/s...53/#post3934105

Now with video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px7LqMMSdz8

And as a bonus, "pizza" created by our favorite nutter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIbi...feature=related

CuddleChunks
Sep 18, 2004



Audiot posted:

This also falls into the guys that wear earplugs to preserve their hearing. I won't wear ear plugs when I drive so that I can take them out once in a while to make my stereo/ recording sound better.
How is preserving your hearing a bad thing? Wearing earplugs in noisy environments makes a lot of sense. The amount of white noise you get while driving is pretty impressive.

Most of the long term damage is by aging and being exposed to loud noise over a long period which, if you go to concerts or have a really lovely vehicle or hang out next to jackhammers all day, will leave you deaf as hell late in life. Or, if you're a raver, deaf as hell early in life.

A pair of 20+dB reduction earplugs makes a huge difference in your quality of life and I'm surprised that more folks don't use them. I've done so consistently for years and refuse to go to concerts or any other high noise environment without them. Seeing some band live is no reason to lose my ability to hear them ten and twenty years down the road.

Rant on protecting your hearing complete.

Back to laughing at "audiophiles" and their craziness. I think some of the higher end gear costs a bundle because it is hand-built and uses much nicer materials than stuff you get from an assembly line somewhere. I think there is a reasonable amount of excess you can indulge in to get good looking speakers and amps and such that scream out "Hey, I spent a bunch of disposable income on my home speaker system because I'm rich as hell and all you poors can go suck it." Conspicuous consumption drives some of this so you'll see folks with jobs that give them loads of money try to one-up their competition by buying even more retarded setups.

Looks like I am the alpha male of this confederacy of VP's with my Optimus XL-3 System that uses Nagia interconnects. I didn't really look much at the price but you know, probably a cool 50 grand or so.

Ho ho ho, not so fast Bob. Your quaint little system has nothing on my Dunkenschmaker Valkyries which were assembled by the last known Speakermachenmeister in all of Germany before he died. I barely glanced at the six figure price tag since I just have to have The Best.

fuuuuuuukkkk.


Old. Rich. Audiophile.

Owsla
Aug 31, 2003

Where are my bitches?

Mothrog posted:

Now with video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px7LqMMSdz8

And as a bonus, "pizza" created by our favorite nutter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIbi...feature=related

Patrick might be my favorite internet poster of all time.

Philthy
Jan 28, 2003



Pillbug

Owsla posted:

Patrick might be my favorite internet poster of all time.

Someone should keep tabs on all these guys, then put them on a TV show where they live together for a month. It would be amazing.

Megiddo
Apr 27, 2004

Unicorns bite, but their bites feel GOOD.

CuddleChunks posted:

Looks like I am the alpha male of this confederacy of VP's with my Optimus XL-3 System that uses Nagia interconnects. I didn't really look much at the price but you know, probably a cool 50 grand or so.

Ho ho ho, not so fast Bob. Your quaint little system has nothing on my Dunkenschmaker Valkyries which were assembled by the last known Speakermachenmeister in all of Germany before he died. I barely glanced at the six figure price tag since I just have to have The Best.

fuuuuuuukkkk.


Old. Rich. Audiophile.
50 grand for Radio Shack gear? (Optimus used to be a brand of audio/video electronics sold by RS.)

That Genuine Stank
Apr 25, 2004

by Ralp


Mothrog posted:

Now with video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px7LqMMSdz8

And as a bonus, "pizza" created by our favorite nutter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIbi...feature=related

This is a related video of Patrick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_WkKz1LJbQ

This is were you can buy a power cable just like this for about 2k, http://www.virtualdynamics.ca/Genesis there is also an interesting video of a rep talking about the economics of audiophillia.

woops, turns out that is not the genesis cable, it is the judge. This is what pat had to say about the price,

patthenutter posted:

Virtual Dynamics told me not to say the price. But I can say that Genesis is a very small fraction of the price of Judge. I traded in Genesis and sold most of my room to pay for it.

I haven't really delved to far into his gear, but it looks like this is all just for a pair of headphones. Is that the case?

Edit: 25k is the rumour.

That Genuine Stank fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Aug 1, 2009

Not an Anthem
Apr 27, 2003

I'm a fucking pain machine and if you even touch my fucking car I WILL FUCKING DESTROY YOU.


Why does the dude whisper and be super creepy in his videos? He is hilarious.

That Genuine Stank
Apr 25, 2004

by Ralp


Not an Anthem posted:

Why does the dude whisper and be super creepy in his videos? He is hilarious.

Someone asked him about that, I don't think that he answered. I am pretty curious about that too.

After further reading, he said that the price might have been more like 50k. I don't know if anyone has read this far, but his source is a laptop that runs through a usb dac then through a t-amp. To top it off, he apparently only/mainly listens to trance music! Someone figured that his dac and amp are worth a whopping 300 bux together! So even figuring in an expesive-ish laptop, his power cable is worth cost him at least ten times the total of the rest of his gear. Oh yeah, and he covers it all in expensive wrapping paper. He also claims that changing sources, amps, and other important pieces of equipment only make the sound different, not better. Yet he feels that the best way to improve a system is to buy things like "Magix levitation feet"

I think that we have reached peak audiophillia.

this is his profile, http://www.head-fi.org/forums/members/patrick82/ I think that all or most of his previously owned stuff was sold to pay for this cord.

That Genuine Stank fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Aug 1, 2009

coolskillrex remix
Jan 1, 2007

gorsh

stizu posted:

Someone asked him about that, I don't think that he answered. I am pretty curious about that too.

After further reading, he said that the price might have been more like 50k. I don't know if anyone has read this far, but his source is a laptop that runs through a usb dac then through a t-amp. To top it off, he apparently only/mainly listens to trance music! Someone figured that his dac and amp are worth a whopping 300 bux together! So even figuring in an expesive-ish laptop, his power cable is worth cost him at least ten times the total of the rest of his gear. Oh yeah, and he covers it all in expensive wrapping paper. He also claims that changing sources, amps, and other important pieces of equipment only make the sound different, not better. Yet he feels that the best way to improve a system is to buy things like "Magix levitation feet"

I think that we have reached peak audiophillia.

this is his profile, http://www.head-fi.org/forums/members/patrick82/ I think that all or most of his previously owned stuff was sold to pay for this cord.

patrick probably has mental issues. the funny thing is if you didnt see any videos or pictures, the way he talks about audio cables is no different than everyone else on head-fi.

That Genuine Stank
Apr 25, 2004

by Ralp


Omegaslast posted:

patrick probably has mental issues. the funny thing is if you didnt see any videos or pictures, the way he talks about audio cables is no different than everyone else on head-fi.

I agree, though I would think that his opinion on everything else outside of his "tweaks" isn't like the regular crowd. He sold most of his gear to buy that power cord after all.

swordfishtrombone
Dec 24, 2004

the violinist kept playing

stizu posted:

He also claims that changing sources, amps, and other important pieces of equipment only make the sound different, not better. Yet he feels that the best way to improve a system is to buy things like "Magix levitation feet"

I was looking at his posts and this is how he explains it in his own words:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f113/...260/index8.html

quote:

Everytime I have changed a source or amp I didn't hear any improvements, I have only heard side-steps into different flavors. So the improvement isn't huge, it's non-existant to me. I only hear improvements from tweaks.

So the particular equipment choice apparently causes his trance music to taste different.

Not an Anthem posted:

Why does the dude whisper and be super creepy in his videos? He is hilarious.

Well, I was going to post something nasty about him being a nutter - but then I saw what looks like his alternate youtube account:

http://www.youtube.com/user/SelektivMutism

So there you go...selective mutism...gently caress, now I feel bad.

But hey, I think he's getting better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuxkDOnjgtY

Now I REALLY want to see him get better, sell that loving cable to some rich old corporate bastard and then spend the money on some nice girl...

VibrioCholera
Mar 7, 2003


What's wrong with purchasing a good amp and a few good speakers and enjoying your system? I am using a HOME THEATER IN A BOX which must completely set these people over the edge.

When I was a kid I had ear surgery done. They did something where I have negative pressure in one of my ears.

How would an audiophile deal with this or could I never be one? I'm sure someone sells some $4000 piece of paper that fixes my problem!

Helado
Mar 7, 2004



Why stop with simple paper, go with full brass mesh faraday cages.

King Hotpants
Apr 11, 2005

Clint.
Fucking.
Eastwood.


How would you guys feel about a fun activity that involved ridiculing audiophiles?

That Genuine Stank
Apr 25, 2004

by Ralp


Helado posted:

Why stop with simple paper, go with full brass mesh faraday cages.

Brass mesh faraday cages are for plebes This is what he is using,http://www.stillpoints.us/Stillpoints/ers_specs.html He said that he bought it through https://www.partsconnexion.com/accessories_ers.html He bought 100 sheets, after his discount that works out to be a little less than $2k.

As ridiculous as his ideas are, I am starting to feel sorry for him. Very few people take him seriously on head-fi and some are even hostile towards him. The rest treat him like comic relief. it is really difficult to take him seriously, now that I think of it, nobody would believe him if it weren't for the pictures and video.

In one of his ers threads, someone suggested grounded tinfoil as an alternative.

There must be more people like Patrick, as nutty as audiophiles can be it would seem that there is another one that is equally imbalanced when it comes to upgrades. Like there might be a knobophile, http://web.archive.org/web/20070830..._Code=NOB_C37_C ?

Are you suggesting a forum invasion King Hotpants?

King Hotpants
Apr 11, 2005

Clint.
Fucking.
Eastwood.


stizu posted:

Are you suggesting a forum invasion King Hotpants?

What I'm suggesting is a contest, where forum users here go to an audiophile forum and start trying to post ridiculous poo poo without getting called out as trolls. They're doing a similar contest in D&D involving freepers, so I thought it could be fun if we applied this to the only other group I know that's completely devoid of logic or reason.

The basics:
1. Register an account on an audiophile forum like head-fi
2. PM me your account name
3. Post ridiculous poo poo without getting banned
4. If you get other people to agree with you, you win. The most outrageous stuff wins a prize (I'll probably do the top three or something).
5. If you get banned, or outed as a troll/making poo poo up, you lose.
6. If you manage to get a legitimate user banned as a troll, you win.

I'll sticky this thread or a new one just like it. Don't post anything in TA/VA that would get you banned on the other forum; someone will probably find it.

big mean giraffe
Dec 13, 2003

Eat Shit and Die

Lipstick Apathy

King Hotpants posted:

4. If you get other people to agree with you, you win. The most outrageous stuff wins a prize (I'll probably do the top three or something).

If the prize isn't one of those $1000 bag of magic sound rocks then I am not interested

metaxus
Nov 14, 2003



As an employee of the Hi-Fi world, I'll gladly make and send three audiophile-related prizes to the winners as determined by King Hotpants.

It's my day off tomorrow, but when I'm back in the following day I'll make them and take some pics of the awesome prizes on offer.

You just might score some special Australian bags of magic pebbles!

King Hotpants
Apr 11, 2005

Clint.
Fucking.
Eastwood.


big mean giraffe posted:

If the prize isn't one of those $1000 bag of magic sound rocks then I am not interested

You want a bag of rocks? I'll send you a bag of rocks. They'll be as magic as you want them to be.

metaxus posted:

As an employee of the Hi-Fi world, I'll gladly make and send three audiophile-related prizes to the winners as determined by King Hotpants.

It's my day off tomorrow, but when I'm back in the following day I'll make them and take some pics of the awesome prizes on offer.

You just might score some special Australian bags of magic pebbles!

You're the best!

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ADBOT LOVES YOU

King Hotpants
Apr 11, 2005

Clint.
Fucking.
Eastwood.


We're live.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...hreadid=3181168

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