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qirex posted:There’s a flip side to ASR style measurements that a lot of people don’t want to admit which is that gear that measures badly can still sound good. That Naim stuff is seriously overpriced for sure [it’s almost as expensive as a NAD M33] but not everybody wants a huge stack of mismatched Topping and miniDSP gear as their system. There's also the angle of "most people wouldn't know what a bad measurement looks like" too. I looked around some audiophile groups a ways back and it's truly insane the level of navel gazing they do over things that could be sample noise on a too-zoomed-in plot
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Jun 26, 2022 19:34
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I mean, it’s not like ASR is entirely against the idea of subjective preference or whatever—just look at any post on a tube product and you’ll see lots of caveats and ”if you like the way that this product distorts, then more power to you”s whether that reflects Amir’s true feelings or whether it’s just ASR being diplomatic and shrewd about pissing off too many/the wrong people is anyone’s guess
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Jun 26, 2022 19:54
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Ok Comboomer posted:I mean, it’s not like ASR is entirely against the idea of subjective preference or whatever—just look at any post on a tube product and you’ll see lots of caveats and ”if you like the way that this product distorts, then more power to you”s Oh absolutely! Amir's a nice enough fellow (and knows how to do the things), but sometimes the measurebating can be a bit much, and a community but around that has some risk of getting a little too out there Still, better than head-fi!
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Jun 26, 2022 20:02
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A lot of people with ugly homes ITT lately.
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Jun 26, 2022 20:04
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Amir himself isn’t the problem, like nearly everything on the internet it’s the community that’s the worst. I don’t like everything he does, especially his assertion that humans can actually hear distortion or noise at -115dB, but stuff like him testing power conditioners and $2k cords and other magic tweako stuff is valuable. His fight with the PS Audio guy alone where he proved that not only did their 5 grand power conditioner do nothing but the special high current amp outlet actually introduced extra AC noise was awesome.
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Jun 26, 2022 20:33
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The only reason I visit ASR is to double check my preamps volume control attenuation and see at what level it starts attenuating by more than .5 dB a click
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Jun 26, 2022 20:58
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qirex posted:His fight with the PS Audio guy alone where he proved that not only did their 5 grand power conditioner do nothing but the special high current amp outlet actually introduced extra AC noise was awesome.
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Jun 26, 2022 21:17
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All I know about PS Audio is that they run their demo rooms at shows so loud that it is physically painful.
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Jun 27, 2022 18:54
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TheMadMilkman posted:All I know about PS Audio is that they run their demo rooms at shows so loud that it is physically painful. This seems very on brand.
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Jun 27, 2022 19:35
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the Mods, they knew!
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TheMadMilkman posted:All I know about PS Audio is that they run their demo rooms at shows so loud that it is physically painful. Well they have to, what with most folks at shows being partially deaf as a result of... oh dear.
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Jun 27, 2022 19:40
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qirex posted:There’s a flip side to ASR style measurements that a lot of people don’t want to admit which is that gear that measures badly can still sound good. That Naim stuff is seriously overpriced for sure [it’s almost as expensive as a NAD M33] but not everybody wants a huge stack of mismatched Topping and miniDSP gear as their system. I absolutely agree with you, but "can sound good" is a ridiculously subjective measurement. The fact is that 99.9% of the population aren't listening in an environment where scientifically accurate sound matters, or is even achievable. My mom, for example, is perfectly happy with a set of Advent Prodigy Towers hooked to an Onkyo receiver in the living room and a cheapo Sony boombox in the kitchen. Why? Because she likes the laid-back sound in the living room, and sound quality in the kitchen only matters as to whether or not she can hear the reporters on NPR. All the money in the world to buy a super-accurate stereo, room treatments, etc. would be lost on her. And that's a huge segment of the population. The vast majority of the market is people interested in a certain amount of convenience, or a certain "sound", or aesthetics, over absolute quality of reproduction. And why shouldn't they be? It's how they like to listen to music, and they enjoy it. I had a whole paragraph here about people who are into vinyl and/or tubes because it "sounds better" or whatever, but that argument's been done to death. I can't imagine that anything I say is going to change anyone's mind at this point. Hell, even the recording studio crowd has their own superstitions (have I mentioned how much I can't stand the Yamaha NS-10?) but again, the folks making most of the music that most of the population listens to couldn't care less about "accurate" reproduction. Part of the point of this thread, though, is also making fun of people who believe that -110dB SNR vs -120db SNR is somehow audible, and that's part of what the ASR measurement stuff plays into. It's great that there are end-user/real-world measurements of high end gear, and there's plenty of that stuff that's total crap. But beyond pointing out that there are basically no improvements to be had beyond perhaps $1k for any given piece of equipment, and very often worse results at the highest end, I'm not sure what value the ASR reviews provide for a home listener.
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Jun 27, 2022 22:24
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I bought a preamp and headphone amp based on reviews from ASR. Knowing that a product has excellent channel balance is huge to me, so that testing was deeply helpful.
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Jun 27, 2022 22:57
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I find putting a specific beer on my DAC as weight really helps. I use a hydrometer to measure the gravity and chart how well if sounds
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Jun 27, 2022 23:13
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strtj posted:I absolutely agree with you, but "can sound good" is a ridiculously subjective measurement.
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Jun 28, 2022 00:32
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qirex posted:"Sounds good" is by definition subjective and that's why trying to "listen to a graph" is as bad an idea as pretending measurements don't exist. Even stuff that measures perfectly can fall apart with bad speaker positioning or poor fit in the case of headphones.
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Jun 28, 2022 04:28
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3D Megadoodoo posted:A lot of people with ugly homes ITT lately. Your homes are ugly and by homes I mean face and genitals
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Jun 28, 2022 04:58
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RIP Paul Walker posted:I bought a preamp and headphone amp based on reviews from ASR. Knowing that a product has excellent channel balance is huge to me, so that testing was deeply helpful. What did you buy? And just out of curiosity, what headphones are you using it with?
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Jun 28, 2022 07:52
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strtj posted:The fact is that 99.9% of the population aren't listening in an environment where scientifically accurate sound matters, or is even achievable. And is "accurate" even a meaningful word if you aren't listening to something like classical or other acoustic or unamplified music? If all you listen to is popular music, what are you trying to recreate accurately? The studio recording, which is usually a collection of a bunch of recordings layered on top of each other? A live concert? If so, where? In the concrete, glass, and steel stadium where Cleveland's basketball team plays or a club or a really nice but modest sized theater?
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Jun 28, 2022 14:45
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Mr. Funny Pants posted:And is "accurate" even a meaningful word if you aren't listening to something like classical or other acoustic or unamplified music? If all you listen to is popular music, what are you trying to recreate accurately? The studio recording, which is usually a collection of a bunch of recordings layered on top of each other? A live concert? If so, where? In the concrete, glass, and steel stadium where Cleveland's basketball team plays or a club or a really nice but modest sized theater? a smoky room, obviously.
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Jun 28, 2022 14:59
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Ok Comboomer posted:a smoky room, obviously. Cigarette, cigar, pipe, weed? THESE THINGS ARE IMPORTANT TO THE SOUND.
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Jun 28, 2022 15:13
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strtj posted:What did you buy? And just out of curiosity, what headphones are you using it with? Topping Pre90 and ext90 is what I got. My main criteria was not having a volume pot, so I was looking mostly at the Topping, Schiit, and McIntosh stuff that was new enough to use their optical encoder thingie. The Topping replaced a somewhat modern McIntosh pre that had a minor balance mismatch at really low volumes and drove me kinda nuts. The lack of recording loops and only two unbalanced inputs on the Topping are a bummer, and there are some lovely usability things, but having rock-solid balance at all volumes is a revelation and I kinda love the loud relay clicks when changing volume. I did need to send the first one back due to a faulty rotary encoder but the new one is fine. Oh and the screen is differently colored than my OG AKM-having D90  Headphone amp I got is JDS Atom Amp+, driving a set of Hifiman HE400SE Stealth. I don’t use headphones all that often, so even this relatively modest setup feels special to me. Even then, most of the time I use the Koss KPH30’s hooked to the 14” MBP’s pretty awesome headphone output. RIP Paul Walker fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Jun 28, 2022 |
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Jun 28, 2022 15:40
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Lol if you aren't hiring a chamber orchestra to play in your audio room.
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Jun 28, 2022 16:03
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The sound curve from live instruments really isn't good if your space is set up for electronic audio though
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Jun 28, 2022 19:33
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Mr. Funny Pants posted:Cigarette, cigar, pipe, weed? THESE THINGS ARE IMPORTANT TO THE SOUND. opium, if you're not a coward
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Jun 29, 2022 00:30
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bird with big dick posted:Your homes are ugly and by homes I mean face and genitals What the gently caress I don't even own a stereo. Reported for being very rude!
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Jun 29, 2022 02:14
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just posting because these are cool tbh https://twitter.com/RoadworkUK/status/1542162952345772036?s=20&t=ZpfL13gcCI8LRslVSSngBg
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Jun 29, 2022 18:05
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Olympic Mathlete posted:just posting because these are cool tbh "Integrated" systems like that were all flash but no substance, and have no place near the audiophile thread
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Jul 1, 2022 13:41
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RIP Paul Walker posted:Topping Pre90 and ext90 is what I got. My main criteria was not having a volume pot, so I was looking mostly at the Topping, Schiit, and McIntosh stuff that was new enough to use their optical encoder thingie. The Topping replaced a somewhat modern McIntosh pre that had a minor balance mismatch at really low volumes and drove me kinda nuts. The lack of recording loops and only two unbalanced inputs on the Topping are a bummer, and there are some lovely usability things, but having rock-solid balance at all volumes is a revelation and I kinda love the loud relay clicks when changing volume. I did need to send the first one back due to a faulty rotary encoder but the new one is fine. Oh and the screen is differently colored than my OG AKM-having D90 I'm honestly very impressed that you can hear balance differences to the point that it matters. Are you listening to a lot of mono material? Do you spend a lot of time adjusting your headphone fit on your head and then very carefully not moving so that it is never disturbed? I own the exact same headphones and honestly, given the open nature I'm not sure I could hear even a 1db difference between the channels unless I was sitting in a very, very quiet room.
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Jul 1, 2022 13:49
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This isn't the audiophyle thread tho. 100% would rock one of those.
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Jul 1, 2022 13:49
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strtj posted:I'm honestly very impressed that you can hear balance differences to the point that it matters. Are you listening to a lot of mono material? Do you spend a lot of time adjusting your headphone fit on your head and then very carefully not moving so that it is never disturbed? I own the exact same headphones and honestly, given the open nature I'm not sure I could hear even a 1db difference between the channels unless I was sitting in a very, very quiet room. For me it's a longevity thing, my last amp was fine at first but the pot degraded unevenly in each channel and got annoying over time I'm leery of things like the JDS Atom for that reason, the amp section is excellent but it has a dirt cheap pot that I wouldn't trust to last Digital volume control means that's never going to be an issue
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Jul 1, 2022 15:52
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My first stereo was a Technics with a top loading 5 disc CD changer with a clear plastic cover like a record player. Was a great design since you could change the other 4 CDs while the 5th was playing without having to dick around with the motorized rotating CD tray thing that came out later. But it meant it had to be on top and couldn't really be inside a cabinet. The amplification and radio and tape deck were all in one and were absolute trash, as well as the speakers, and were incrementally replaced. The CD player stayed in use for many years though.
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Jul 1, 2022 17:08
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strtj posted:"Integrated" systems like that were all flash but no substance, and have no place near the audiophile thread AIWA was the loving balls in the 80s, tho
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Jul 2, 2022 01:26
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strtj posted:"Integrated" systems like that were all flash but no substance, and have no place near the audiophile thread some integrateds were really good tho
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Jul 2, 2022 02:06
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That particular Aiwa actually has one of the cleanest amplifier designs from the 80s and even early 90s. You'll need to do a full cap upgrade, of course. And replace the front end with one from a marantz. And never run it in the case, the case messes up the soundstage horribly; let the signals air out by spreading the PCBs over a marble slab. Standard PS1 DAC swap. Remove the switches and wiring harnesses, those tiny antennas inject noise. An external linear supply really brings out the microdeets. Overall, I think you'll find this tidy little system punches well above it's weight.
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Jul 2, 2022 02:29
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taqueso posted:That particular Aiwa actually has one of the cleanest amplifier designs from the 80s and even early 90s. You'll need to do a full cap upgrade, of course. And replace the front end with one from a marantz. And never run it in the case, the case messes up the soundstage horribly; let the signals air out by spreading the PCBs over a marble slab. Standard PS1 DAC swap. Remove the switches and wiring harnesses, those tiny antennas inject noise. An external linear supply really brings out the microdeets. Overall, I think you'll find this tidy little system punches well above it's weight. I thought this was the vintage/two channel thread for a moment.
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Jul 2, 2022 03:18
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Thought of this thread when I saw this (its the onion for music nerds) https://thehardtimes.net/culture/punk-audiophile-spends-2000-on-turntable-to-listen-to-album-recorded-on-beer-soaked-4-track-in-basement The Hard Times posted:Punk Audiophile Spends $2,000 on Turntable to Listen to Album Recorded on Beer Soaked 4-Track in Basement
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Jul 2, 2022 13:47
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stealie72 posted:Thought of this thread when I saw this (its the onion for music nerds) ah, the Henry Rollins disease
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Jul 2, 2022 14:24
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Yeah, a lot of the music of my youth sounds terrible [especially the hundreds of literal cassette rips from raves]. If you want a good example of this listen to Pretty Hate Machine in the original mix vs the remaster, both are on streaming. The same thing applies to these ancient jazz recordings dudes are spending $40 for a new mix of, they were recorded on garbage equipment, maybe not as bad as most early punk but still not great stuff. Or my favorite scam, paying extra for a new, even higher resolution rip of a 60 year old 1/4".
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Jul 2, 2022 17:15
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There are some people doing incredible restorations/remasters of old/bad recordings, and I love the work they're doing. My experience is more from the classical music side of it, as some of those old performances by the old masters of the craft are just so good and unique.. but held back by the original recording.
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Jul 2, 2022 18:39
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Classical lives and dies on dynamic range so that makes sense. Meanwhile there’s plug-ins for rap producers to intentionally dither the audio down to 10 bit to make it sound more old school.
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Jul 2, 2022 18:59
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