Ridicule Audiophiles - Find the cat shit's resonant frequency

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Inspect Your Gadgets > Ridicule Audiophiles - Find the cat shit's resonant frequency

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KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Gromit posted:

I wouldn't talk to them about it. I could think of few things that would make me sound like a pretentious twat than telling my friends about the frequency response of my drivers.
This all changes if your friends are audio nuts, of course. But almost no-one is one of those. Statistically you'd probably be better off talking about child porn.

To be fair, I think your job makes your perceptions of how many people look at CP a tad skewed. (Also, I almost typed "skewed" as "SKU'd", so that says something about my job. :psyduck:

)

# ¿ Jun 24, 2012 05:08

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 05:30

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

If you're not listening to your music from a PCIe SSD, you're just not doing it right, damnit. :haw:

Edit: Do you know how loving HEAVY a 2kw linear PSU would be?

# ¿ Jan 5, 2013 01:57

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

longview posted:

I think it's pictured in the ad, the grey box with what looks like PowerCon connectors, the shipping weight IS listed as 150 ibs.

I just saw that. That's loving absurd.

Edit: I don't see any vents on that power supply. That thing would melt.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2013 09:06

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Hippie Hedgehog posted:

Nah, being absurdly over-dimensioned for the application, I suspect it would actually not run very hot. PSUs generally don't get really hot until you approach their specified limit, and 2kW should way be more than even that monster of a PC could draw.

Maybe if it was a switching power supply. Linear power supplies run REALLY hot, and a 2kW monster would have to be that large - just to fit the massive toroidal transformer and the heatsinks to cool it.

Check out the chart on this page:

http://www.raftabtronics.com/TECHNOLOGY/ElectromagneticBasics/ToroidalTransformerBasics/tabid/112/Default.aspx

You'd need a transformer 8 inches wide, 3.4 inches high, and weighing 26 lbs to drive a 2kw PSU - and you could probably boil water with it.

Also, is that a C13 connector? drat thing is gonna start a fire.

Edit:

Just to put the nail in the coffin of stupidity - Linear power supplies have HORRIBLE efficiency.

quote:

For a large voltage difference (i.e., low power supply output voltage) and large current, the overall efficiency can drop down to nearly 10%. The maximum
efficiency for a linear supply is generally around 60%. Typical average efficiencies are in the 30-
40% range.

http://www.bkprecision.com/downloads/pdf/PowerSupplyGuide.pdf

KillHour fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Jan 5, 2013

# ¿ Jan 5, 2013 11:56

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Those speaker cables. :suicide:

"Due to the extreme engineering behind these cables, proper burn in will begin to occur after several hundred hours."

Begin to occur.

I guess they don't do refunds.

http://www.evolutionacoustics.com/cables/speaker-cables/

KillHour fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Apr 28, 2013

# ¿ Apr 28, 2013 06:18

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

I'm going to sneak into this guy's barn in the middle of the night, and gradually replace his expensive "audiopile grade" equipment with cheap look-alikes and see if he notices. I'm going to start by replacing those risers with these:

http://www.horizonhobby.com/product...CFYcDOgod3yEARg

# ¿ Apr 28, 2013 20:31

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

TheMadMilkman posted:

Oh hey, it's Mike Lavigne's barn. I actually met him at RMAF two years ago. Really nice guy. He manages a Honda dealership.

It would take some digging to find them again, but I know I've seen measurements of his room, and at the time it measured extremely well. Looking at the current photos, it looks like he's made a number of changes. The room used to have a lot more fabric, which appears to have been replaced with more wood.

There was a lot of interesting discussion on AVSForum when he had the room constructed. He felt like the room basically required extremely large speakers. A good number of people felt that this indicated that the room was "bad." There has also been a lot of criticism of the room designer, Rives Audio, which apparently has a reputation for using a "one-size fits all" approach to room acoustics.

Was your impression that he was insane, or just gullible?

# ¿ May 2, 2013 13:55

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

longview posted:

Even my most audiophililiac friends will admit that the only time cable risers make sense is if you have electrically heated floors.

Nonsense, I'm going to make a fortune creating wires that are held in the air with magnets.

# ¿ May 30, 2013 02:26

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

What does jumbled music even look like?

# ¿ May 30, 2013 20:52

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Pilsner posted:

Great thread, just read all of it. I never knew about audiophile power cables until this thread. I found this picture of one of those garden hose power cables, which is connected via a standard extension cable, then into a regular-ish power outlet, which has a normal thin cable going to a socket... what exactly do they think this magic cable can do after the current has passed through all the standard wires? Not to mention the tiny wire in their household fuse and standard power cabling in their home.

Go big or go home:

It's a 100 amp power cable for a Yacht.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2013 00:30

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

BANME.sh posted:

My absolute favorite thing about these products aren't the analog ones; you can always reach for an impossibly clean signal with analog equipment, so it's easy for people with more money than sense to fall for it. Analog is spooky to these people.

It's the digital stuff that really blows my mind. HDMI cables that claim to enhance contrast and color depth, or USB cables that somehow modify the data stream for clearer treble.

There's an exploitation here that goes beyond regular audiophile bullshit.

Are you kidding? Digital scares the poo poo out of these people. It's not an audiophile thing, it's a human thing. Do you know how many times a day I have to tell people at work that they won't see a speed increase spending 5 figures going from GbE over copper to GbE over fiber?

# ¿ Jun 3, 2013 01:49

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Anybody want a 1M RCA cable for 1700 euros?

http://www.head-fi.org/t/576614/nordost-valhalla-reference-rca-wbt-nextgen

The reason he's selling them? He upgraded to more expensive ones.

:ughh:

# ¿ Jul 7, 2013 01:15

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Philthy posted:

Nordost are pretty much the go-to cables for anything 'hi fi'. If your system is running you 15k+, you're probably using them.

I have a friend who bought into the interconnects and speaker cables, but I haven't been over to listen to his system since.

I just like making my own by chopping up Walmart power cables.

Why the hell wouldn't you just buy these:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021814&p_id=2869&seq=1&format=2

# ¿ Jul 8, 2013 03:47

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Philthy posted:

I haven't had good luck with Monoprice. I've had quite a few bad HDMI cables from them in the past. I don't even know that was even possible.

See, that's odd. I buy a ton of stuff from Monoprice, and the only thing I've gotten from them that I wasn't happy about the quality was a 50 cent 3.5mm to 1/2" adapter. But it works and it cost 50 cents, so I'm not particularly worried about it. :iiam:

Then again, I don't buy HDMI cables from them any more since my best friend installs cable and has boxes full of them.

My point still stands that if you're spending more than 5 bucks on a 1M RCA cable, you're doing it wrong. :colbert:

# ¿ Jul 8, 2013 13:44

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Jerry Cotton posted:

Audiophiles > Oenophiles > Beer nerds > IPA nerds > Pepper nerds. This is how I see it, so it's the absolute truth. People who pay 40000� for some cables are down right crazy but people who have ever used the term scoville outside of academic conversation are deplorable scum. (I don't know where camera geeks fit in because I've happily not been subjected to camera geekery.)

See, I really like craft beers, and I don't think I'm nearly as bad as an audiophile.

I mean, hell, the most expensive beer you can buy is like 600 bucks a bottle, which is probably 1/100th the cost of the most expensive cable you can buy.

Also, most of the really expensive beers are expensive because they're limited runs or just really drat cool. Like a beer from SPACE or one that comes in a termidaxied squirrel.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2013 00:50

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Jesus Christ, what is wrong with these people?

# ¿ Jul 12, 2013 18:00

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Not an Anthem posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjPUoyMLdQ4

It is apparently made by this guy, "Electron Luv."

I'd be shocked if any of that equipment sounded as good as my $1000 home theater, but it does look gorgeous.

Then again, I straight up don't like the sound of vacuum tube amps, so I'm probably biased.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2013 14:06

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

KozmoNaut posted:

Tube amps are awesome for making music, not so awesome for playing it back.

We would never have stuff like this had it not been for tube amps (and LOADS of drugs):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqM5L5JQseI

That Hammond organ sounds fantastically dirty when played through a guitar amp. RIP Jon Lord.

Screw SOTW and Highway Star, this is by far the best track on Machine Head.

Right, but I consider that analogous to a filter being applied during mastering. It's part of the original song, and it's meant to be listened that way. Using a tube amp to listen is like putting one of these in your system (except worse, because it only has one setting and you can't even turn it off).

http://www.amazon.com/Lexicon-MX200...fects+processor

Again, though, I like my music played back as analytically as possible (within a modest budget). I'd rather use software to apply effects or EQ if I think a song sounds better with it. If you think Bach sounds better with tube distortion, go for it.

I think a lot of tube fans are old timers that grew up with tube distortion and it sounds wrong to them without it. Also hipsters, I'm sure.

KillHour fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Jul 17, 2013

# ¿ Jul 17, 2013 17:37

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Khablam posted:

Heh, no. This is way too dangerously close to a "test" for an audiophile. No, the true audiophile will tell you what he will hear different, turn it on, and viola.

What kind of equipment inserts classical stringed instruments in all your music?

# ¿ Jul 20, 2013 02:39

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Opensourcepirate posted:

This will be my last post on the subject so I don't run it into the ground. These are the things I have to say.

1. I've found their articles to be interesting. A lot of them talk about technical specifications for various standards and have very little to say about their particular cables. Obviously they talk about themselves in a good light, but it's not overblown.
2. They are US based and manufacture as much as they can in the US. I and other people are willing to spend more money on US made goods. If you're not, that's fine.
3. The item you quoted is a custom length item. You have to enter 10 feet, and then they make a cable to fill the order. Other products they have come in pre-made lengths, and generally seem to be priced more closely to what you would find from other sources.
4. I strongly disagree with your statement to not read articles by anyone. I think it's a much better skill to be able to read articles and figure out what is and is not bullshit, rather than just cutting yourself off from biased material completely.
5. As best as I can tell, this company does what they can to make a high quality cable without using any bells or whistles that don't actually improve quality. One of the things that lead me to them is that I was looking for HDMI cables that will actually do 50+ feet reliably. I absolutely go with Chinese mass produced poo poo for my 6-10 feet HDMI cables, but I've had HDMI cables not work for me at lengths as short as 15 feet. Finding a long HDMI cable that will work is a harder task than you may realize, and this company claims to have made a cable that will go 150 feet.

Edit: To give an idea of the markup: they charge about 10 cents a foot (20 cents per foot you enter, but you're getting two cables) for their Belden 1505F stereo cable when you put in a large length. That cable is available in bulk from tons of places, at about $100 for 100 feet or $700 for 1000 feet. So 10 cents a foot for 100 feet and 7 cents a foot for 1000.

$100 for 100 ft is $1 per foot, not 10 cents. 10 cents per foot would be 10 bucks.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2013 20:30

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

RoadCrewWorker posted:

Over half of that site is written like a terrible parody i'd badly make up on the spot (for fucks sake, their "How do they work?" section ), right down to the "mad scientists" name, so i really want to believe it's a clumsy punchline being driven into the ground.

Except for the part where they apparently sell their joke for real loving money ($399, you save $170!) and have some "only one refund per customer" (is that even legal?) policy...

One of their explanations references Doctor Who. It's a joke.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2013 13:36

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

And what the hell is a 1600Mhz HDD? Do they mean RAM?

# ¿ Aug 20, 2013 00:43

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Boiled Water posted:

Actual A/V question incoming: Why not use fiber optic cable for both images and sound?

In addition to the other answers in the thread, the optics for high speed fiber (10gbps+) are ridiculously expensive. Like "A pair costs more than the rest of your AV setup combined" expensive.

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/Cisco-SFP-transceiver-module-10GBase-SR/1651560.aspx

Obviously, they don't cost nearly that much to make, but that's where the market is right now.

KillHour fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Sep 10, 2013

# ¿ Sep 10, 2013 22:01

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Khablam posted:

The physical properties that cause a bike to balance are incredibly complex, very hard to accurately model, and not fully understood. If I wrote 5000 words about how my bike design was better able to get you to school than the others because of my research on mass-center and gyroscopic dynamics, centrifugal balancing and ensuring I consider gravity, I might not be particularly lying.
I am however misrepresenting how any of this relates to my product, which in this case is a Raleigh made in 1962 I resprayed and hung a weight on the frame. I could make many measurements to show why I did this, but neither are more suitable for the binary condition of taking a single rider from point A to point B.

Maybe you don't have issues with people trying to sell products in this manner, but you seem confused why people are against you linking BJC articles that essentially do the above.

Yes.

The ironic part of this post is that electric cables are much better understood that bicycle dynamics. Hell, coaxial cable was patented in 1880, and it's still used today for uncompressed 1080p @ 60FPS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMPTE_424M

The skin effect isn't some magical property that only a select few cable manufacturers understand. It's a well understood phenomenon that is intrinsic to any conductor with a very simple solution - using braided 'Litz wire'.

So, no, BJC doesn't have some magical solution to the skin effect or any other scary scientific term that Monoprice doesn't. The only difference is that one was made by a guy in the US in a union, and one was made by a guy in China working 80 hour weeks for almost no pay. Is one going to have superior build quality? Probably. Does any of that have anything to do with R&D or some secret technique? No.

You know what the difference is between an HDMI cable that supports 1080p@60 and one that supports 4K@60? Nothing. Any Category-2 rated HDMI cable is capable of 4K resolution @ 60FPS. You're not going to see any problems at 1080p unless your cable is out of spec.

TL;DR: There are only 2 things that matter with (passive) in-spec Category 2 HDMI cables - wire gauge and quality control. Everyone uses the exact same wire design.

Now can we stop arguing about cables?

KillHour fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Sep 11, 2013

# ¿ Sep 11, 2013 02:25

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Malcolm XML posted:

No one seems to get worked up over video over copper, but since 192kHz/24bit is ~ 4 Mbps you could comfortably run (digital) audio over Cat5e cables and have room for hundreds of channels.

The issue is that audiophiles think DACs are magic. HDBase-T would solve everyone's problems but no one would be able to sell snake oil cables.

I'm closing on a house tomorrow, and I'm running Cat6a EVERYWHERE. At least 6 lines in large rooms and 4 lines in smaller rooms. There's no reason not to, and I'm going to run everything over it. HDMI over Cat6? Check. Audio over Cat6? Check. Freaking low voltage power over Cat6? Check.

# ¿ Sep 13, 2013 01:46

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Shaocaholica posted:

Are these specs lovely for a $100 DAC+amp that I'm just going to be listening to itunes tracks with?

Dynamic Range:90 dB
S/N Ratio :98 dB
THD+N :0.05%

What model is it? Those specs don't really say a whole lot.

# ¿ Oct 30, 2013 17:38

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sra1vo3lMLo&t=61s

Dat cable. :stare:

# ¿ Dec 10, 2013 02:17

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

KozmoNaut posted:

I really like the build quality and the no-nonsense looks. There are no flowery descriptions of various features emblazoned on the front with cursive gold lettering, no weirdly-shaped plastic or unnecessarily-bright blue LEDs, just a clean and simple straight-forward layout that'll still look unobtrusive in your living room 10 years from now. Stereos really should be heard, not seen.

Contrast this with my Pioneer CD player, which proudly boasts "Legato Link Conversion". What does that even do? Who cares?

From what my dad tells me (he's worked with electronics for ~40 years), NAD's PCB layouts are easy to follow as well. Everything is built using discrete components and laid out sensibly, so it should be possible to fix if anything ever goes wrong.

E: On the other hand, some of the cheesy stuff is so over-the-top that it loops around and becomes even more awesome. Especially vintage hifi components like the Marantz 2500 reciever, which had a drat oscilloscope built into it, for some reason. And wood paneling.

27kg. $1600 in 1977. 250 very real watts per channel. One hell of a beast.

I REALLY want that receiver for my living room (the room is mid century modern, and it would fit perfectly), but the only one on ebay is $2400 BIN.

# ¿ Dec 23, 2013 02:47

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Neurophonic posted:

http://www.boulderamp.com/3050-p1.html

$115,000. It has a 32 amp ceeform connector and needs it's own dedicated circuit.

445 lbs.

# ¿ Jan 14, 2014 07:28

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Blistex posted:

Wasn't there a post from some forum where a guy's dog chewed a very expensive cable it it turned out that it was just cheap wire encased in run of the mill flex hose with a horrible soldering job keeping it together? I'm trying to find it but google isn't cooperating. It was some really beefy cable that turned out to be nothing but cheap materials from a hardware store and some flashy connectors.

If I remember correctly, it was a cat. And the hose was filled with metal filings.

# ¿ Jan 16, 2014 06:05

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

TheMadMilkman posted:

The Lexicon was the direct rebrand (except for the splash screen and case). Ayre modified the power supply and the analog outputs.

There's a pretty good post over on whatsbestforum explaining why this is happening (written regarding home theater, but applies to audio as well):
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...ll=1#post231773

Basically, small companies can't afford to implement HDMI into their own designs, so they're stuck modifying or rebadging existing designs.

This is one reason, I think, that there are so many new high-end DACs on the market now. It lets the companies avoid the issue altogether.

Modifying the power supply and analog outputs of a blue ray player isn't going to make a difference in quality unless those parts were marginal to start with (and I mean "barely works"). Especially not for a 1900% price increase. Who the hell uses analog outputs with Blu-Ray, anyways?

# ¿ Jan 26, 2014 15:53

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

KozmoNaut posted:

http://xiph.org/video/vid2.shtml

Thanks for this, it was super informative. I have no electrical engineering background, so I didn't know most of this stuff.

# ¿ Feb 16, 2014 22:35

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

TomR posted:

I'm glad you posted this. A while ago I got a 24bit DAC so I downloaded some 24bit music and I didn't think it sounded any better.

The point of 24 a bit DAC is that you have 8 bits that you can dedicate to changing volume on the computer without affecting sound quality. Obviously, that still means that music encoded beyond 16 bits is still pointless.

# ¿ Feb 17, 2014 05:34

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

KozmoNaut posted:

So uh, I may actually have bought something that could be described as audiophile-targeted and a bit silly.

It's a preamplifier. More precisely, it's an NAD C165BEE, which costs almost $1000 new (I paid ~$500 used) and weighs more than my old C320BEE integrated amp. Apparently, it's got fully class A gain modules instead of opamps, including a fully-separate headphone amp board. It's also got a big beefy power supply to handle the massive 20W power consumption. They've actually put a drat relay on every switch instead of electronic switches, so you get a nice "click-clack" whenever you switch inputs.

It really is hilariously overbuilt, it's a tank of an appliance. On the other hand, I hope that means it will last forever.

It certainly seems to send a much "tighter" signal to my sub, but I think the Audioengine A5+s I was using before applied the internal EQ to the RCA outputs as well, which led to some boominess at some frequencies.

Everything certainly sounds very good indeed with the new preamp and the Adam A5Xs, like seriously amazingly good. As it drat well should, considering I'm rocking a ~$1600 system now, and that's with a used preamp and sub!

This hobby is too expensive I'm just happy I'm not one of those "magic power cable"-buying suckers.

Nah, you're not that bad until you have a separate DAC, preamp, DSP, active crossover, and power amp... for a 2.1 system... for your computer. :shepspends:

KillHour fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Feb 23, 2014

# ¿ Feb 23, 2014 20:35

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

KozmoNaut posted:

Uh, I am actually using a separate DAC, and the only reason I'm not using my active crossover right now it because I'm waiting for the cables

To be fair, my PC sound system is my main system. The bedroom system is just the Audioengine A5+s and an MP3 player, because it's just so drat convenient (I'm still waiting for my UPNP/Airplay device).

I'm considering replacing my DSP and power amp with more capable ones, and moving the existing ones into the basement... I just have to find some cheap used speakers for down there, since I don't think the wife will let me get ANOTHER set of Aperions (I have 5Ts in the living room and 4Ts in the office).

Edit:

gently caress, this is tempting. http://buffalo.craigslist.org/ele/4297516349.html

KillHour fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Feb 23, 2014

# ¿ Feb 23, 2014 20:56

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

KozmoNaut posted:

Excuse me, but I keep all my cables permanently encased in high-powered freezer units for optimum transfer of sound effervescence and sonic holisticness. I think I know a thing or two about cryogenic treatments

You just know if they came out with a room temperature superconductor, we'd be using that poo poo in speaker wire. Actually, I'm surprised I haven't seen superconducting speaker wire yet. Sure, keeping all that LN2 around is expensive, but the resistance, man!

Fake edit: Real audiophiles use LHe4.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2014 21:45