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RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great

Twiin posted:

You can very easily tell an MP3 from uncompressed audio by looking at spectral analysis.
Yes, that's exactly what he said.

Does anyone know if the psychoacoustic model encodings are robust enough for DSP filters? I just know from image editing that starting with a decent looking HQ jpg something as simple as a shift in HSV can make the gigantic compression errors glaringly obvious, so i imagine it's similar for audio.

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RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great
So i have no idea about vinyl players, but seeing as the needle very noticeably goes up and down wouldn't that mean the playback tempo followed a sine-wave as the needle gets pulled over incline, top, decline and valley?

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great

Combat Pretzel posted:

The vinyl rotates at a specific constant speed. The vibrations picked up by the needle, which is in the cartridge at the top of the arm, going through the groove, make up the sound. The whole arm is just articulated to follow any warps in the vinyl.
Right, that's my point - the vinyl presumably has the recording on it in a constant angular velocity, and if it rotates at a constant speed the vertical deviations will change the speed of the needle on top of the material as the relative surface normal changes, resulting in a non-constant playback speed.

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great

Combat Pretzel posted:

Must be an unusually warped record for it to be noticeable. An audiophile would be morally required to shred a record, if it ain't 110% level.
Yeah, i didn't mean it was audible or even noticeable at all. Hell, a 1 mm vertical deviation on the circumference of a 12 inch record (approx 950 mm) in the form of a sine wave means a slope of ~0.0033 somewhere, meaning an increase of playback speed by a factor of ~1.0000054! :haw: So it's completely laughable.

Twiin posted:

:science: So when played back it would be at a regular playback speed.
Yeah, that makes more sense, i wasn't certain how sturdy and persistent those deformations were.
Still, considering all the expensive snake-oil meant to remove unmeasurable nano-jitters on the other side of the universe, that number seems gigantic. I guess i'm having a hard time imagining the mindset that would result in a ridiculous setup displayed in the video that also tolerates (or even welcomes?) those kind of potential mechanical error inducing influences.

I guess i'm an idiot for expecting consistency in insanity.

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great

teknetik posted:

I wanted to get earphones for my brother as the ones he has for his iPhone keep falling out when he goes out running. Any recommendations within the $50-70 range? He'll only be using it while in the gym or to run.
I think you're looking for this thread. :)

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great

Amphigory posted:

These things are all audio placebos, really. Which, oddly enough, means they have a point about the DBTs (though not for the reasons they think)
Yeah, it's like the color of a room changing the perception of temperature in it.

Most would be willing to accept that while the actual objective temperature that can be measured using sensors doesn't change different people "feel" warmer or colder depending on other subjective priorities and tastes, so a raw temperature reading doesn't capture "the full experience".

Audiophiles would be the guys who argue that red painted walls (as opposed to blue) change the light refraction to cause undetectable micro-heat-spots that can only be sensed by skin trained over decades and alters bouncing behavior of air molecules and the filtered photon quantums give the brownian motion a smoother, more natural unidirective flow - just plain snake-oil.

The people arguing the former have a point.

The latter "points" are either theoretically true but irrelevant or just complete pseudo-science nonsense.

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great

KillHour posted:

I guess they don't do refunds.
I guess they don't do accuracy either:

http://www.evolutionacoustics.com/loudspeakers/mmseven/ posted:

Did we miss anything?

In audio, the word “neutral” is used too often to describe the “ideal” sound, Frankly, it is not the type of sound we were looking for. One needs to look at the definition of the word to understand why we feel the way we do:

neu-tral [noo-truh l ] – adjective
gray; without hue; of zero chroma; achromatic.

Music is all about color. At Evolution Acoustics we feel our loudspeakers are not neutral as the above defines. Rather they are rich in color as are the notes that emanate from the actual instruments that create them. Our goal was to create a “natural” or “true” copy of the archetype.

However they do know their audience:

http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/663.html posted:

61 years old, married 38 years, work in retail, love music and audio.

http://www.evolutionacoustics.com/loudspeakers/mmseven/ posted:

Also, as we get older we hear high frequencies differently than when we were younger. Evolution Acoustics incorporates adjustable tweeters to suit personal sensitivities and preferences.

Look, we know you hear things "differently", but our loudspeakers are ~~rich in colors~~, and what are you going to spend those millions earned by "work in retail" on anyway?

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great

Blistex posted:

All you've done is take the exact same thing (water/electricity) and run it through something very expensive
To these people, this is the part that matters

quote:

, that in no way affects the quality of it.
This is the part that doesn't.

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great
While we're at it why not replace that dreaded fleshy "ear" segment of the transmission chain with something that doesn't degrade over the years of use and aging and instead uses a load of buzzwords from a 1970s sci fi show.

Also the ear nerve.

And obviously the brain attached to it, who knows what kinds of messy distortions are introduced in there.

RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Jun 4, 2013

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great
I liked the description i stumbled on when looking for explanations of "burn-in" that "Nothing" changes in the cable "but something changes in the space between the L and R".

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great

Aeka 2.0 posted:

I really don't understand some of this crazy audiophile poo poo.

Aeka 2.0 posted:

don't (...) do jack poo poo. crazy (...) poo poo.
Sounds like you understand it perfectly well. :)

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great

Confounding Factor posted:

Because the latter is uncompressed and at a consistent 1124kbps (I think that's the number) versus that of FLAC which could range from 700-900kbps, I've seen plenty of stupidity validating 40 MB per song just to keep it as WAV.
The point is that the lossless compression codec is unpacked into the exact same signal contained in the uncompressed WAV binary data. It's similar to throwing a wav file into a zip program - sure the compressed filesize is smaller (and whatever kbps you calculate) but the ultimate waveform that's played is exactly the same.

They can't even argue that the "unzipping" process takes too long and introduces playback stutter or whatever bullshit because it's actually faster and more accurate to read a smaller file from disk and decompress/play it in memory than reading the large, uncompressed data from a slow-rear end harddrive.

RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jun 12, 2013

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great

quote:

Despacio, on the other hand, has been designed specifically to reproduce both modern dance music and "Hells Bells" as accurately as possible. To that end, the trio will only be playing vinyl through the system. "Vinyl sounds better," James says, simply, when quizzed why he's rejecting digital music.
I don't know, that sounds pretty in line with the rest of the thread.

Edit: wait, i hope "vinyl vs digital" isn't opening pandora's can of worms around here. :ohdear:

RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Jul 26, 2013

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great
Over half of that site is written like a terrible parody i'd badly make up on the spot (for fucks sake, their "How do they work?" section :psyduck:), right down to the "mad scientists" name, so i really want to believe it's a clumsy punchline being driven into the ground.

Except for the part where they apparently sell their joke for real loving money ($399, you save $170!) and have some "only one refund per customer" (is that even legal?) policy...

RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Aug 7, 2013

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great

KillHour posted:

One of their explanations references Doctor Who. It's a joke.
Well duh, theres also half a dozen other scifi joke "explanations" (apparently submitted by "fans"), its the working paypal backend that kinda goes against the spirit of "It's a joke".

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great
To be fair the quote is "there was a greater level of perceived clarity and scale", so the logical chain is really just "loads of money spent -> larger psychological investment -> altered psychological perception".

Of course that's "technically correct" in the same way that a person who just "bought" the golden gate bridge for 50000 bucks feels "better/more important" traversing it in the "knowledge" that it is "their property".

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great
Conmen that don't somehow build confidence suck at their job.

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great
Gotta turn that smile upside down.

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great

breaks posted:

after reading back a bit further, I'm not sure how the thread really got on this topic)
Something like "Audiophile OS kernel nano second jitter :techno:" -> "poo poo doesn't matter because of how buffered soundcards work" ->? "but man i totally hosed around with this processing software and it started to sound bad, also 1 bit 'music', don't ask me about engineering details"?

Yeah, i got nothing. v:v:v

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great
This isn't funny.

Dementia is no laughing matter. :colbert:

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great

baka kaba posted:

And that it wasn't his concern anyway, because he had no qualms about running it all through this thing
Well he replaced previous hocus pocus with $$$$$$ voodoo 2.0 so of course from his view previous concerns became meaningless.

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great
So cheez is some high effort troll and this 4chan-speak "Anandtech's Watercooling God err Mod." aigomorla douche is in on it, right

or is that board just one of those moderation-endorsed crazyhouses where the inmates run the place?

RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Dec 10, 2013

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great

KozmoNaut posted:

but does it have to be so overpriced and do they have to sell it using audiophool wankery?
The latter allows them to do the former thanks to the existence of (presumably enough) marks who all "know" price implies quality, so yes, yes it does.

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great
I can't help myself reading this as a reaction to the "$115,000" prize tag:

quote:

“I’ve never heard anything like this. I don’t even know how to put it into words because I don't think what I'm hearing can be described in a way that would give anyone even an approximation of the experience. I keep coming back to the lamentation that so few people will ever hear or feel this as I am."
Although i dig the "You know what? I'm not even going to bother describing this in dozens of made up flowery words, just let your imagination run wild and make up your own nonsense." line, that's very efficient:

quote:

The sound of the amplifier itself cannot be described because the 3050 has no sound of its own. Bass, mids, highs, soundstaging, resolution, transparency, liquidity, musicality, realism, separation, pick your cliché: Everything is better.
Bonus points for going beyond the usual "we're better than the reasonable stuff" approach to elitism and exclusivity:

quote:

Most companies have a pipe dream, a product they would build if the time were right and the customers were there, if there were no limits, if a new benchmark could be achieved. Practically nobody builds this kind of product. Many claim to, but careful scrutiny nearly always reveals compromises or cynicism in the results.
Yeah all those other overprized "pipedream products"? Just poor compromised cynic crap for the masses. :smug:

I hope one of the internal parts is just an actual 350 lbs rock for the weight.

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great
That man is clearly a being beyond our understanding, his head has evolved to self-embedd in majestic sound-insulation.

e: Actually that makes me curious, what are audiophiles' feelings on all that noisy biological crap (blood gushing, air flushing, muscle tension/vibration, heart beating) that pollutes their sound receiving organ via direct mechanical transmission? Has someone offered literal snake oil to self-insulate your organs or dampen your inherent noise-generators?

RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Feb 2, 2014

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great
Cmon man, it virtually "doubles the sound quality"

Like, makes twice as much goodness come out of the sound because things move much faster!! If you can't hear it you must be dumb.

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great
Isn't the dailymail a yellow paper trash rag for complete morons anyway? It's odd to see the usual faux-science flowery language nonsense mashed up in a way as if they were explaining it to a 5 year old.

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great
Why is that thing's "name" just "THE PREAMP" but in german?

Is that like japanese throwing in random english words in random spots to sound cool, except for audiophiles it's gotta be KNALLHARTES DEUTSCH for some reason? :psyduck:

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great
Well yeah, you also have "sharpener" kernels or crazy over-saturation to make things look 'better' the same way "louder" sounds 'better' to the average joe even if it completely degrades the signal quality. Intensity vs Authenticity trade-offs are obviously subjective, but not exclusive to audio/video.

Although that makes me wonder how many of those 50k "studio quality+++ precision" rigs are just constantly tuned into a drowning smile.

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great

Philthy posted:

People that spend that much on cables more than likely burn that much just to start their fireplace because it amuses them.
Still a better scenario because then at least the money doesn't end up with these frauds. Also because it looks way cooler.

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great
Isn't the vinyl business pretty much perfectly honed to aim at enthusiasts who care about style (and fancy gimmicks) first and price last? Not my personal cup of tea but if it was then crazy ideas like that would probably be pretty great in a "mp3/flac doesn't have that!" way. v:shobon:v

I guess maybe if you added 3 zeros to the price....

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great

Chill Callahan posted:

To their defense, the human ear is incredibly sensitive. Ears can detect displacements on the order of 1 trillionth of a meter.
For those who don't get why this is hilarious, the radius of a helium atom is ~32 "trillionth of a meter".

Wonder if homeopathy is big with audiophiles, the smaller the magnitude the larger the imaginary effect.

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great

rear end Catchcum posted:

ha nice try but I can def. tell a difference. iTunes supports AIFF files but iPhone does not, it won't accept them during sync, you need a 3rd party app (I like Onkyo's).

My rig is badass btw. I don't care about space bro I have a 128gb iPhone 6+. That's right; I got 99 gigs but an mp3 ain't on one.

This is what I'm currently rocking: iPhone 6+ 128 GB> iPhone Lightning Camera Kit>HRT Microstreamer DAC>AKG K 701 Headphones.

I mean I mostly listen to Weezer/Flaming Lips but I like my tunes at the highest quality haha that's why you'll catch me at the gym with those big rear end cans blasting away.

Some of you are saying that the iPhone has a great built in DAC but the DAC limits/downgrades the file quality due to its limitations, no?

On my MacAir I run Audirvana and the Microstreamer/Headphone combo. Fuckin love it.
Man you went way over the top for that lame joke dude, but i appreciate the effort

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great
Splendid, that makes it even funnier!

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great
After i win the lottery i'll start buying audiophile systems for 100k only if they accurately reproduce the fine crackle of my 1995 64kbps SoAD mp3s and can recreate the warm sound and intense range of Skrillex remixing Ke$ha feat Justin Bieber.

If it gives one of those frauds a stroke would it be considered the perfect murder?

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great

taqueso posted:

If they get the impression that you are ready and able to spend $100k, they will happily tell you all about how warm and detailed the sound of your speak'n'spell will be or whatever else they think will help empty your pockets.
Well obviously, that'd be how you can tell the "true" 1% insane fanatics who get high on their own supply from the boring 99% of con-men. :colbert:

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great
How does the 320kb lossy codecs hold up if you decide to load the file up in an editor and run it through 26 filters? I heard the more aggressive "optimized for human hearing" stuff falls apart pretty quickly if it gets transposed or multiplied. Or scenarios like "re-encode in a new future codec"?

Granted, probably not really something anyone actually ever does, but it seems like a potential functional difference.

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great

bobbilljim posted:

this is a fakepost right. right.
I think you might be on to something, mister Sherlock. Let us know what the investigation turns up!

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great

Nintendo Kid posted:

WinRAR is to compression what a 5000 dollar power cable is to powering audio equipment.
Where can i get a free audiophile power cable that constantly reminds me that its 30 day trial period ran out in 1998?

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RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great

Nintendo Kid posted:

You know that straight up free and better compression exists right? It's 7zip dude.

Similarly,
Your comparison wasn't nearly as subtle as you think it was, but apparently me joking about it was.

Although now i'd love to see someone sell winrar for 5000 bucks with extremely flowery audiophile language. All the "RAM cleaner" programs out there proof that there's a target audience of gullible marks for it, and hey, it works for those "audiophile grade" music players that just put a shiny frontend on the regular OS sound api, right?

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