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Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

kuffs posted:

Next up: Audiophile grade SATA cables!

http://www.malcolmsteward.co.uk/?p=2479
Ah drat, I just wanted to post this.

Seriously, why are these people so loving obtuse and simply don't want to understand binary encoding systems and transmission?

Hogscraper posted:

The higher sample rate matters less than the bit depth in my opinion.
I really doubt that anything beyond 16bit makes any sense with a good DAC, except in a mixing environment.

Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Aug 19, 2010

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Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Kinda related to the post above, but not to audio... Years back when I worked at a computer parts wholesale, they had a daughter company that built computers. The PATA cables were neatly folded and zipped to the case. Folded kinda like they're being delivered in bulk too. One day I had to help out tech support, I received a call from an electrical engineering student making a fuzz about these folds. At first I thought it was a prank, but he kept going too long at it and even dared me to follow up with his professor about it. Silly people.

qirex posted:

Because they're coming from a world where dumbass audiophile tweaks were accepted because of the "mystery" of analog audio. The people involved are either trying to sell/promote useless poo poo or they want to be lied to about it because the very thought that a 50 cent monoprice cable is just as good is orthogonal to their entire way of thinking.
I don't know, but I'd expect people to do some simple research about the matter, when it involves several hundred dollars or more, for poo poo like a wooden volume knob. Or some lovely crystals to put on your amplifier (I'm still not sure if it's a prank or not). I get the ultimate laffos especially regarding audiophile cabling. Because I work in the cable industry. And I know that we've a bunch of these guys as clients. Which makes things more hilarious, because I know what they're getting and what they're trying to sell it for.

Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Aug 20, 2010

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

oversteer posted:

Sciency type paper refers to cables giving markedly different results :psyduck:

http://www.eetimes.com/design/audio-design/4015821/Loudspeakers-Effects-of-amplifiers-and-cables--Part-5?pageNumber=0

I can't make sense of their graphs and I have an EE background..

Why SPL (dB) ?
How do they define 'measurements' ?

Very odd.
So, the cables make the signal louder? As in considerably louder?! There's 6 dB and more gain in the peaks in some of these graphs. What the gently caress?

Also, if you were to do a reverse FFT of the values represented in these graph, the result would be the booming voice of god having a poo poo fit, so loud, it'd be breaking earth in half.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
14000 dollars for 2m of power cable? Holy poo poo.

And the logic behind it. Even if it is made of magic pixie dust with superconducting properties, I like how every audiophile falling for that poo poo kinda ignores the tens to hundreds of kilometers of power lines, converters, distribution stations and mundane copper hook-up to their houses.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Gromit posted:

You mean you don't have your own Hyperion Nuclear Battery or Toshiba 4-S reactor in the shed generating power for your house?
I like how the "BMI-cabling" of the entire house will eclipse the cost of a home nuclear reactor by several magnitudes.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Opensourcepirate posted:

You're absolutely right that these cables are way overkill for most applications, but I think that the prices charged are reasonable given the quality of the materials and the cost of American supply and labor, as opposed to the price of Chinese manufactured cables from monoprice and other websites.
I work in a cable manufacturing plant in Europe (i.e. not China) and any "quality" LV cable here costs way less than an Euro per meter (at least the sort needed for audio, unless you want LOCA-certified nuclear grade control cabling). Connectors are also three times nothing relatively seen. 25 bucks for a custom cable is still a rip-off.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
I flew over it, and I didn't see any tables or numbers. Much of a study this is.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Sound waves bouncing off things between you and your speakers. Like say, a tile floor right in front of your speakers.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
How do you deal with the cosmic background radiation, that the atmosphere isn't filtering anymore?

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
The photons still might dent the vinyl molecules.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Socket Ryanist posted:

1. There's no such thing as "a sufficient rate to prevent aliasing" because any given analog signal has frequency content all the way up the spectrum... sure most of the stuff way up there is really quiet and just noise anyway, but there's something there.
Yeah, you need to sample at way higher rates than just Nyquist, if you're trying to be perfect, otherwise a square wave for isntance might end up like this on an inverse FFT (exaggerated):

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Socket Ryanist posted:

Luckily it's not what the waves look like that we're interested in.
Try to tell that the people, that judge audio compression techniques by looking at what remains (Original minus Decompressed) and how the spectrum looks like, instead of just listening to it. I'm sure there's a decently large cross-section with the audiophile bunch. :v:

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Out of boredom, I was googling for my company, who produces cables. I stumbled onto posts of the head-fi forum. There's a lot of poo poo going on, but this one took the cake for now (I guess I should be proud, tho):

quote:

A little more listening in, in my bedroom system and main system. Definitely a nice cord! Not just for the money, but overall.

I placed several cords around my main system to try these out there. That system consists of (digital front end listed only):

- Eastsound CD-E5
- Belles 250i integrated
- Eminent Tech LFT-16 speakers
- PS Audio GCHA headphone amp, Sennheiser 650 w/RnB cable
- Oritek X-2 (E5 to integrated) and X-1 (tape out to GCHA)
- Oritek S-1 speaker cables
- All line components plug into a power strip attached to a Foundation Research LC-1
- Amp plugs into a power strip with a Triphaser AC unit
- AC Cords: PS Audio Xtreme Prelude (Belles amp), Eichmann eXpress v1 (CD), and Silver Raincoat (GCHA)

In the end, I tried the Eupen cord on the CD player and headphone amp (I also put it on my phono stage, but didn't do enough serious listening on it). Compared tot he Silver Raincoat (which is well burnt in), it was deeper in bass, more focused in the bass and mids, had a larger soundstage and had a quieter background. Without a doubt better, almost across the board!

Then swapped the Eichmann with the Eupen. Definitely blacker background, but the soundstage size shrunk in a bit. Tonally, fairly similar sound to Eichmann, though the Eichmann MAY have better bass. Nice focus of voice within the soundstage.

So even though the Eichmann is a little noisier than the Eupen, I still prefer the overall "largeness" of sound with it. But the Eupen has beat out another "hi fi" lower price cord in the Silver Raincoat. I had thought the SR was pretty good after it was in the system a while. But it's there no more....

I think the one place the Eupen might have a weakness is in overall speed.(what does that even mean?!) I get the sense it loses out to some of my favorite cords from the past, especially the TG Audio SLVR (which is a $500 list cord), and some of the other TG line. I also know that I should replace my PS Audio as well!

But still, I'm impressed at the blackness, imaging & focus, and control of these cables.
He's talking about power cables. I know how one of the two cables in question is produced. Epic kludging involved.

:suicide:

Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Nov 7, 2011

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

longview posted:

Does your cable have stripes or stickers on them? If not that's probably it.
We should start to sell tiny spoilers to put on the plugs.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
On a cable reel maybe.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Waldo P Barnstormer posted:

Read the quote below:

The Cynosure v2
The thing with these cables is, they're too loving expensive to dismantle. Of the very few audiophiles that'll buy a poo poo cable like this, rarely anyone is going to take it apart and see what's under that heat shrink tube and braiding. Probably some cheap rear end Best Buy cable.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Since their high-tech AC power cables are supposedly shielded like gently caress, how do they explain that rice paper having any effect at all? These people are so gullible.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
At some point, you might start getting dragged into their rabbit hole. If you're confronted with so much bullshit, the lesser bullshit may start to seem plausible to you.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Exists already. Hydrogen Audio forums. It's kinda annoying, too. Even if you're just expressing a subjective preference over something non-technical, there's still always someone going "Auauagh! RULE 8!!!" or whatever number it is.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
100 watts over RJ45 contacts and/or wires? Yea, no.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
There's a PoE standard that allows up to 51W over all four pairs. And that's really pushing it in my opinion. Double of that? In DC? No way. And probably not a typo, since driving a TV is mentioned as scenario.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
That's an instant 8khz lowpass filter with 12dB rollover RIGHT THERE!

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
In the end, it's still just stupid poo poo. Just like these magical power cords, that oh so improve the sound. I like how its users completely disregard the wiring of their house and that, that leads from the main hub to their house. Gold plating serves poo poo, if the wiring and solder points of all the devices in the chain aren't made of pixie dust.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Nah, I mean from the sound quality perspective. Audiophiles wouldn't care about anti-corrosive properties, because they're probably the firm belief that things like these wear out and have to be replaced every year.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Nah, but if someone was up for the effort, they could bullshit people on Head-Fi with that thing. Create some huge wire construct and pretend with fake RMAA graphs or spectrums that it works. An ideal lowpass filter with 10 blocks and 1.5m of wire.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

jonathan posted:

Here's some audiophile poo poo. I almost didn't buy this condo that I just moved into because the walls are painted a colour, not a shade. I didn't want to have to recalibrate my TVs due to the non-neutral colour scheme.

Then I said gently caress it, I can't run a subwoofer in this place why the gently caress should I care about 100% accuracy in colour.
Can't tell if serious or not. What's the problem with repainting the drat place?

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Someone's selling an atomic clock as clock reference for your studio gear.

"With the Atomic, I'd say there was a 20% improvement which for me is mind-blowing. The image was wider, more solid and the vocal appeared to project towards me!"

"I noticed an immediate change in my soundspace the minute I heard the 10M plugged into my OCX-V. The stereo spread out, the edges were more clear, and the center seemed to come forward."

(Quotes from industry professionals. I hope they're fake, because if not, :psyduck: )

http://www.vintageking.com/Antelope-Audio-Isochrone-10M

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Homeopathic levels of improvement in jitter doesn't change the sound of a production. Did you actually read the quotes?

--edit: gently caress, I fell for it.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Considering they're doing stuff like putting them in a freezer before playing them, or demagnetizing them, they're probably putting them under a scanning tunneling microscope first.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Because some inertia and gravity based degrading playback medium is the poster-child of accuracy. I'll never understand these people.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
It's not like most devices don't have capacitor circuitry to smooth out the current, eh, eh?

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Vinyls are goddamn hilarious. Disregarding all the inaccuracies that are introduced while manufacturing them (like the master not being 100% clean when pressing the vinyl, density fluctuations in the vinyl platter), the playback is another tier of stupid. You're dealing with a gravity based groove sensing. It all depends on the flexibility of the needle and the pressure of the head, both influencing the inertia and thus the actual read out of the groove. The needle might not be falling into the hole by following the groove, but by using rises as a ramp. Then, because the needle might be jumping around like nuts, the low frequencies are attentuanted to poo poo while high frequencies are raised (see RIAA equalization, and the low frequencies, because they are what make the whole arm jump). That's why you need a preamp, if it's not built-in, to revert this. Considering that audiophiles seem to be all about the most accurate reproduction of somebody's works, vinyl is by definition the worst contemporary transport medium ever.

KozmoNaut posted:

If you generate a 20kHz perfectly analog sine wave, record it digitally in 44.1kHz 16bit CD-quality and then play both that and the original analog 20kHz source back into a good oscilloscope, you WILL NOT be able to tell the difference between the original analog-generated sine wave and the digital recording. There is NO DIFFERENCE.

Anyone who still thinks that digital audio consists of "bar charts" or "stairsteps" or whatever need to educate themselves and read up on the Nyquist–Shannon sampling theorem as well as the method by which analog-digital and digital-analog converters work.
DACs actually filter the audio to reduce/remove any stepping, no matter how fine grained it is. Not to mention that tho devices act digitally, they're still implemented in an analog world. And the actual output system is also again inertia based. The speaker cone would filter any steppings to begin with.

--edit: That said, sampling a 20khz sine wave at 44khz will result in a whacky digital sampling, that relies on the DAC doing its job 100% correctly (which they don't). Because you won't be capturing the peaks of each undulation.

Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 11:58 on May 13, 2012

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

ShamrockShake posted:

I'm having trouble actually parsing this sentence, but is that a site administrator banishing all talk of hard scientific methods? Do audiophiles have to resort to wildly attacking simple protocols to defend their fragile world? Amazing. I'm terribly happy that I'll never be an audiophile.
Yeah, because DBTs crush ten thousands of little souls (and each their tens of thousands of dollars) each time they're been done.

And it doesn't even need blind tests, it just needs some common sense (which they obviously lack). I mean, I've posted about this before, but on Head-Fi there was a huge discussion about how super loving great sounding a power cord is, that's manufactured in my company. Jesus gently caress, I work in manufacturing and know the whole production process, and it shows that they have no loving clue about how their magic devices are actually manufactured. And how crude it actually is. I was tempted to take pictures of all machinery used for said product and try to tank the thread, just to see how they're going to explain these away. But that would get me into deep poo poo for industrial espionage.

They're generally in denial, anyway, because another company is still in good faith with them, after this happened to one of their products:





quote:

Yes, a poster on the Head-Fi forums had his fancy-pants power cable disemboweled by his cat, only to discover very little of value inside. Once ripped open, all he found was "a couple of bucks worth of 14 AWG PVC insulated bulk wire (VD's "LiniPur" conductors) and some ferrite powder, (VD's "5 dielectric layers") shoved into some heavy braided-wall PVC tubing to make it appear thick and meaty, and put together with dirt cheap connectors and DIY build quality."

Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 11:29 on May 14, 2012

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
If Weekend Web taught me one thing, it's that there's A LOT of REALLY loving STUPID PEOPLE out there on the Internet.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Throw this in for good measure:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parchive

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
I'm not quite sure if you guys are serious.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
How the gently caress does single phase AC polarity matter at all?! --edit: Actually "polarity" since there's no actual polarity.

--edit: vvvv Must be some voodoo rectifier then.

Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 15:52 on May 30, 2012

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
You don't ground a metal chassis to the neutral lead. If you need grounding, you design your appliance around the assumption that there's a dedicated ground lead. If you don't, you make sure your circuitry is insulated from the chassis. Also, there are quite a few countries in the world that transport current in triple phase AC to homes (one phase acts as L1 and one as N, you connect the phases as you like to balance the load), and they're not third world countries. This is reason alone why this is insane design, because you're in constant danger of shorting two phases, or grounding one of these with your feet.

Either way, this is a safety issue, and not really the point to begin with.

Single phase AC doesn't have any sort of polarity in the sense of direction of constant flow, like DC current. Actual AC devices are designed with that in mind (essentially just electric motors). Virtually any other appliance works with DC, and a rectifier doesn't care where the main and neutral leads are. The diodes in the circuitry make sure of that. (And then again, there's that triple phase AC to one's home.)

Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 22:23 on May 30, 2012

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
I don't know. I have them, too, and they're useless, because I have three phase AC to my house.

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Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
I had a bunch of iPods (regular and touch) in the past. Their output is noisy as gently caress due to cramped circuitry, Wolfson DAC or not.

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