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Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


davepsilon posted:

check out the tokyo audiophile show on video: http://english.ntdtv.com/ntdtv_en/ns_asia/2009-10-12/590485457372.html

Sincerely, this is all bullshit. Even if these "effects" were all real, their impact in the final sound heard by a human would be absolutely 0.

I'm not much into speakers, but I personally enjoy some good headphones. I'll not deny that head-fi.org can be useful when choosing new equipment - The folks there may be completely obsessive, but they'll know how to tell you which $200 item is better for example. They ARE helpful. But it's sad how so many of them are completely obsessing above the threshold which we can hear any difference in the sound. Anyway this is what I can tell about headphones at least:

1) Amplifiers do make a difference. However there are many variables. For example, the sound source - if you're listening from an on-board sound card, an amplifier will make such an obscene difference it might be bigger than buying a new set of cans depending on what you're using. If you're listening from a good sound card, the end result will be better, but the difference won't be so great.

Regardless the difference is real, and present, and usually an upgrade unless you're mixing tube amps with very low-impedance headphones. Unfortunately you do need a good amplifier, and a not so lovely headphone. For example, I was not able to tell a difference from a CMOY (I think it's spelled like this) linked to a Koss Porta Pro, probably because the Porta Pro is very low-end (although an EXCELLENT headphone for its price), and it made a very small difference in a Sennheiser HD-280. However, a hybrid tube amp (about $200) made an enormous difference in the Sennheisers, really, really big.

2) Headphones get noticeably better until the $600 mark (which you can buy for much cheaper on, say, eBay), then the diminishing returns kick in hard and things start to be either side-grades or not noticeable at all. Regardless, for someone who enjoy, well, headphones, they're obviously the only part worth investing since it's where you'll notice 75% of the difference. A $600 pair of cans is better than a $200, but the diminishing returns are present from the beginning. A $500 is not as better than a $100 than a $100 is from stock iPod earbuds. I honestly think that the best headphones you can get for the price are at the $40 range from GOOD companies like the Sennheiser PX 100s or the Koss Porta Pros.

Quite honestly, I think to most human beings any combo of Amp+Headphones above $200 start to become pointless, and in MY opinion it becomes superfluous above $1000. Now, some people do claim that electrostatic headphones from Stax for example, that cost several thousand dollars, are a huge jump from even the most expensive grados/sennheisers/whatever. But there are also the people who claim cables bring the "details from the sound", which leads me to:

3) Cables make 0 difference. 0. Zero. The funniest part is how the review websites always say things like "We here at XXX don't believe cables make much of a difference, but THESE cables! Oh my!" and honestly, can you blame them? poo poo sells for dozens of thousands. And people buy them. I bet they make an humongous amount of money for advertising cables.

4) Any other fancy crap that isn't the headphone, the amp or the source (which doesn't make much difference if you have an amp, keep in mind) is complete and absolute bullshit. Unless there's a very specific function you need for something really relevant, these trinkets to improve the sound quality, "bring the details", "enrich your experience" or "reduce the micro-vibrations and the noise level from the omicron rays coming from the outer space" are absurd and I'm amazed people buy them.

Sincerely, I don't think it's possible for all of these rich people to believe that what they're buying is really making a difference. I think they see these things as jewelry. It just makes them feel better because it's more expensive. I can't for the life of me comprehend how can someone spend hundreds of thousands and believe all these fancy stuff is really making a minimal difference.

On the other hand, we should start our own company to develop sound equipments. I can help with the design. We can be rich.

Elentor fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Oct 25, 2009

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Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


I presume the biggest problem with the CD is the 16-bit rate instead of 24, and not the 44.1kHz right? Because I can't imagine many people being able to listen to the accurate frequency range of other formats.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


proudfoot posted:

Well, its more, you know, musical. I mean, look, my ears are more sensitive then that
200k o-scope. What? Can you talk louder? I'm getting a little deaf these days.

But you have to hear this (mod that cannot be returned) to believe it!

It's all in the small details you cannot notice, young man. Even if you are not conscious, these noises beyond our frequency range will affect your subconscious to reduce your enjoyment of music.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


mr. nazi posted:

This post really brightened up the forum's sub-aural soundstage.

The servers now benefit from an anti-magnetic field that will definitely enhance the CPU processing for a more fluid posting experience, and reduce jitter. With the sub-aural influences on the server cables, we should also expect our posts to be processed much faster!


Edit: So is anyone interested in making an audio review website? I have some good ideas and from the looks of it it seems we can get a lot of stuff to test. Will be fun to test in real life all these amazing technologies that can truly enhance your enjoyment of mu$ic.

Elentor fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Dec 20, 2009

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


proudfoot posted:

One of these routes requires alot more time, and substantially more work. Also, the audiophile grade bullshit market is pretty tapped out at the moment,

Not to sound a jerk since I actually think the idea of a debunker website is kinda funny, but you know that the audiophile grade market is never tapped out, right? You can just invent something ABSURD. I mean, in the past few pages we've seen a black box that protects the sound from outer space and a cable energized by 2 million Tesla coil volts.

Here's an idea: A program that preloads a file, makes redundancy checks in it and then tests it back and forth multiple times and shows how much jittering the music file will have. Then for only $49.90 you can unlock the unique anti-jittering buffer system done in software that will attempt to compensate for the "unequal bit distribution" by allocating the file in the best parts of the memory. Hell, if the guy has faulty ram memory, it might even really improve his sound which is more than these $1000 products will ever do!

Stupid idea? Yes. Still viable? Hell yes.

Hell I have many other even better ideas, too bad I'm not a coder.

Elentor fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Dec 21, 2009

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


Doc Spratley posted:

Monster© Sata Cables - "Turn your BitStream into a BitRiver! Powered by Monster BitFlow© technology"

The Something Audio Audiophile-Grade Better Audio Gizmo Solutions

Throughout the centuries, the seekers of the purest sound knew one thing: That they had to avoid using their computers like the plague. It wasn't until 1920 that Tidus Ronso started his quest to allow people from all around the world to truly experience sound as God intended from a computer. Now, almost a century later, his researches are finally accessible to everyone...

For only $3,000.00 you'll be able to reduce every single problem your computer has ever offered to your sound experience. Jitter, latency, interference, not enough power for your speakers or headphone... these issues that trouble even the most ignorant mind have finally come to an end. The improvements are so obvious that even the average Joe will notice, and no longer be able to listen to music without the BAGS.

But what are the BAGS composed of? Well let's take a look:

Audiophile-Grade RAM memory: These low-latency RAM are optimized to load music files. As a matter of fact, they'll only load audio files. No more will other files delay the execution of your sweet music again.

Noise Cancelator Detonator: This PCI board will actively cancel all the noise going in inside your computer.

Low-Noise CPU Fans: Projected to assist the NCD in its arduous task.

Audio-Master SATA cables: These cables will transfer your audio files to the RAM much better. How you ask? By making the bits much sweeter, and improve their soundstage of course!


Reviews:


"I must say when I first read about the "Something Audio" audiophile-grade products, I was a bit skeptical. Could someone finally have solved the myriad of problems involved with computers when looking for a fine audio performance? We had to try it.

We here at AVBlablah had the honor to test many powerful, robust solutions, but the truth is: None of them are nearly as elegant as the SAAG BAGS. We believe the BAGS can turn your computer into a solid, dedicated audio solution. For only $3,000 the package, you'll be only paying 1/10th the price of the more expensive CD players and cables but we guarantee you - it will be as good, if not better."

"Speechless. I would not, in fact, dare to speak while listening to the sound powered by the magic of the SA equipment. Even a whisper would be but an offense to one's ears while they appreciate the pure, crystalline sound. I am, still, speechless."

"I could not believe... the sound was so clear. It was like the instruments were around me for the first time. Despite the fact we say this to every new product, be it cable, amplifier, headphones, etc. But the Something Audio products... they really made the difference."

"When I proudfoot started my website I would never expect to find audio products that actually worked. To say this thing improves your sound is an understatement. Luckily for you you can buy directly from our website. Just use the exclusive coupon "SAGOONS" for 50% discount."

Elentor fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Dec 22, 2009

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


That site looks like it just came from the 90's.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


Waldo P Barnstormer posted:

This part was my favourite:

What will Critical Mass Systems do for my audio and video system?
...
6. They are designed to remove the “black wall” from your soundstage. Testing and research confirms that black is a color like silver is a color, and that beyond black is clarity. When coloration is removed from the sound stage instruments and voices become solidly and realistically positioned and sound more like live events.

There's so much bullshit in it, I don't even know where to start. It's like, every word is crap, but they also link with the adjacent word to form a new level of crap, and it keeps adding like a pyramid of feces.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


King Hotpants posted:

It saddens me that governments are stupid enough to pay for those things, but I hope that guy goes to jail forever. That's not separating fools from money. That's getting people killed.

It's like no one even tested it.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


Kung-Fu Jesus posted:

Power conditioners are great. Audiophiles buy stupid power conditioners that probably aren't better. I googled "audiophile power conditioner" and found this site that sells $5000 boxes of voodoo.

http://www.audiofederation.com/catalog/power/

You'd think that with the money these guys make from selling voodoo stuff to audiophiles they'd be able to afford a webdesigner.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


Ah yes, the fine art of vintage 90's websites, carefully crafted to match my expensive equipment. This here animated gif cost $500 and I had it custom-crafted to match the colors and minimize jagged edges.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


I'm pretty sure I've had more than one cheap headphones where ALL you could hear was the bass.

Fists Up posted:

This video pretty much sums up what I believe audiophiles talk like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o22otFayLRw&feature=related

Especially that first minute. The snakeskin cables especially.

Love it.

Did this kind of music humor with weird voice start with Adam02 or was there someone before him?

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


If your friends will think less of you and want to punch you for saying detailed brights, being an audiophile is the least of your problems.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


Confounding Factor posted:

I have a question for you guys. If a headphone say has a frequency range from x to y, does that really matter versus what the human ear can actually hear at certain frequencies? It sounds highly suspicious when headphones boast about stuff like that.

It does. But the thing is, super high-frequencies (I'd say 16khz and beyond) aren't something you should worry about.

I did a blind test once with some tracks straight from a CD and compared to a 192kbps mp3 burned from the CD. I couldn't notice a difference with low-quality headphones but I could using the Denon D5000 by then. It took a WHILE to actually notice what was different, but once I did it was easy to get them correct 100% of the time.

The difference? Hiss. Pretty much hiss. Hiss, noise, and if the headphone is bad or the music is poorly mastered, hellish sibilance. Tiny details here and there.

So yes, it does matter in the sense that you WILL get extra detail if you're listening to FLAC or CD while using a good headphone and assuming your ear can still hear these frequencies. It doesn't matter in the sense that it's almost always irrelevant detail you most likely won't notice during normal listening.

If you're above 25 and can still hear anything above 17/18khz you'll probably see it more like a curse than anything.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


Confounding Factor posted:

So you and I are in agreement with hearing poor mastering jobs or overblown remastering then right?

I know this is entirely anecdotal, but am I far off to say I hear a wider soundstage and better dimensional imaging with tracks that are FLAC files or even 320kbps?

Also, do you at all regret the Denon D5000 purchase? They are pretty expensive, then again with those I don't think an amplifier is required.

And yes I am noticing changes in my hearing as I am turning 26 this year, and it is somewhat of an annoyance.

I don't know because some of the cheaper IEMs, hell headphones in general, can produce artificial bass to make up for the lack of a lower bottom frequency. I experienced that with the Grado, however like you said with it being bright, the treble they produce is pretty much spot on. And to its credit, they are efficient enough to where you don't need an amplifier.

Well I prefer orthodynamic headphones for listening at home, which is darker than a Grado, for example. I really liked the Sennheiser 650s, but it was too analytical for my taste. I like a fuller bodied sound versus accuracy.

My first exposure into better headphones was a Sennheiser HD80 until I blew it messing with an equalizer.

Well that's why I said YMMV. But for how much it costs to performance, I think it stacks up very well. It does have a return policy after all, so obviously don't take my word for it.

Pfft my $10 Koss buds from Walmart are better. :colbert:

I think it's psychological. A lot of high-frequency details might help the brain to process the signal better, yes, but I'm willing to bet your brain is amplifying the effect.

My favorite pair of cans are the AD900s. I wish they had a bit more bass. You probably wouldn't like them, because I think they're more "analytical" than the 650s.

But other than the AD900s I like orthodynamic headphones, I'd say the Hifiman HE-400 is my second favorite because it sounds like a turbo-enhanced version of the Koss Porta-Pro which, gently caress the haters, is one of my favorite phones.

I live in Brazil, selling used headphones here results in a net profit because things here are so, so pricey. So I can keep buying headphones, listening to them, and selling them cheap while still maintaining a small profit from the transaction. Aside from the initial investment it's a pretty cheap pseudo-hobby to maintain. The downside is that I never have more than two (decent) headphones at once, so it's hard to compare aside from memory.

As for the Denon, it was a good set of cans, but I think they were really overpriced. For me, at least, I'm sure someone somewhere would love them.

Elentor fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Jun 12, 2013

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


KillHour posted:



:colbert:

Edit: I did everything for Golden Ears except the one where you had to guess what frequency changed. gently caress that one. And then it didn't save my progress. :flame:


:smug:

But yeah, gently caress the frequency one.

Elentor fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Jun 2, 2014

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


Panty Saluter posted:

Random Access Memories is a pretty good sounding album though. Getting super-clean mellow right is a lot trickier than it seems

Yeah the mastering in that album is bananas and it scales like mad with good headphones.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


Once you have an Audio-Technica A_____ the only money you need to spend is in fixing its cable once every 5 years.

Especially if you live in a country where the Koss PortaPro costs the equivalent of 200 US dollars after conversion.

Elentor fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Oct 29, 2017

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


Is there any difference between the U7 and U7 Mkii? I have to ask because looking at the site it's hard to say.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ2A4HDUB8U

I like the incredibly creepy room.

Imagine going to someone's house and they have a room and a computer set up like that.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikiIidF5x2s

"No no no, that looks too natural! You need to keep your eyes wide open when you smile. Yes, yes, good. Cut!"

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


I'm not sure if this is the reason most people think but the two main reasons are:

A) The vinyl mastering sometimes is different and done by a different producer/studio. This is very striking in some cases like in old RHCP albums where the CDs and the first digital editions were based off the CDs and the production in them was terrible, filled with distortion and severe clipping, while the vinyl mastering had none of these issues. I believe they eventually phased out the CD-rips in favor of the vinyl originals so that is no longer a problem in most venues.
B) The music isn't available anywhere else, either on the Internet or even on CDs.

Also I'd argue that anyone in 2019 with a vinyl collection, familiarity with the Internet, access to a paid geeky forum and the willingness to digitize their records is not "the average person" even if you're thinking in terms of "average person with vinyls".

Elentor fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Oct 23, 2019

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


I think "there's a ton of music that was released on vinyl that has never been released on CD" takes considerable precedence on the subject matter because it goes without saying they also haven't been released digitally.

But yeah there's no shortage of CDs that simply are not available anywhere on the Internet, anywhere. It took me 13 years to finish a collection of an artist's CDs just so I could convert them to MP3.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


LRADIKAL posted:

Was that a real post or a parody or maybe dream?

It might be all three.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


taqueso posted:

Find the cat poo poo's resonant frequency

I don't usually think of quotes as thread titles but this is a pretty good one.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004



Hell yeah.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


That looks straight out of an adult swim infomercial.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004



Is this site like the onion or something.
Even for audiophile standards that article sounds insane.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


grack posted:

Unfortunately Whathifi is absolutely serious.

I'm pretty amazed.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


Listen to nothing but the muddiest headphones for a year - settle with naught but the lowest quality, shittiest pairs you can find,and then by contrast your good headphones will be even more amazing after that year!

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


The eigengrau of low-mids.

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Elentor
Dec 14, 2004


shortspecialbus posted:

just lol if you think that the most sensitive microphone that science can devise can detect the changes that my ears can, I found that my hearing of high frequencies in particular greatly improved after my second tour as an artillery gunner and I've proven this by hearing high frequency ringing in rooms that so-called "scientists" say doesn't actually exist.

The talk about high frequencies reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L34S4Tt1EuQ

Whenever I watch this I'm 100% convinced that the reason this headphone probably sounds so agonizing and sibilant is because it's targeted at people with super hearing loss and somehow Tyll got unscathed.

Like I imagine someone with really blasted ears just listening to them and going "I can finally hear the details again".

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