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  RIP D&D mod Vilerat, killed in action, while TDY to Consulate Benghazi on 9/11/2012. Disclaimer: The posts in this thread are purely the individual opinions and thoughts of the various forum members here, and should not be taken in any way as official Department policy, or as having any approval or connection to the U.S. Department of State. This is just chatter from a bunch of goons on an internet comedy forum. Also check the general US Federal Government Jobs thread. What is a Foreign Service Officer? Generally, they are diplomats and consuls. It is the career track that goes all the way up to Ambassador (or Deputy Secretary of State). This post will deal with State Department FSOs; check the third post in this thread for USAID FSOs, which have a different deal. There are also FSOs from Foreign Commercial Service, and Foreign Agricultural Service -- check the bottom of the third post for those two (tl;dr, its really hard to get in). Foreign Service Officers, also referred to as Foreign Service Generalists, enter in one of five career tracks - Consular, Economic, Management, Political, or Public Diplomacy. There is no specific requirement for education or experience. More information is available at: http://careers.state.gov/officer. quote:
What is a Foreign Service Specialist? Foreign Service Specialists provide important technical, support or administrative services in 19 career categories, including Doctors and Physician Assistants, Office Management Specialists, Information Management Specialists, Diplomatic Security Agents, Human Resource Specialists. Each category has specific requirements regarding education and experience. Details are available at: http://careers.state.gov/specialist. Where do I go to register for the test/apply for the job? You should start your application process here: http://careers.state.gov/officer/index.html Read the guide to the application process here: http://careers.state.gov/docs/3.0_FSO_RegGuide.pdf There are five steps: 1. Choose a Career Track 2. Register for the Test: Application 3. Take the Foreign Service Officer Test (FSOT) 4. Submit Personal Narrative for Qualifications Evaluation Panel Review 5. Take the Oral Assessment You can register for the test at: http://www.act.org/fsot/ Be advised that the site is slow and can take some time. Do I have to come from Georgetown/Harvard/Yale/Whatever to get in? Business of Ferrets posted:My classmates and colleagues come from a full range of colleges and universities -- some I've heard of, and some I haven't. Graduates of good international studies grad programs tend to be well represented, but by no means a majority. In my class, we have a wide range of schools. I'd say American University (disclosure: my law school alma mater) is as well represented as Harvard, as are other strong international studies schools. The IU/OSU/NotreDame crowd that seems to be in every group everywhere is here as well. We're a little more skewed East Coast than West Coast, but that's primarily due to proximity to Washington for the Oral Assessment I think. What kind of background will I need? What kind of education will I need? Will a J.D. overqualify me? Business of Ferrets posted:I know folks who, in prior lives, were oceanographers, archeologists, botanists, NGO workers, Peace Corps volunteers, military (both enlisted and commissioned), law enforcement, teachers, comedy writers, lawyers, etc. When they say no specific major or field of study is required, they really mean it. My class is probably 1/3 or more attorneys. About half of those worked biglaw, about half didn't. Military is very represented, primarily officers, usually around Maj. but we have a full bird in my class, and we have a buck sergeant in my class. It goes both ways. We have a bunch of teachers, archeologists, statisticians, computer programmers, NGO types, etc. Educationally, we have a couple people who graduated college in the past year, up to multiple Ph.D.'s. Generally speaking, I'd say having a bachelors is almost essential (though you can apply in your senior year, or even earlier if you want to get an idea of the process) and having either a graduate degree, or a year or two of doing something international affairs or foreign-culture related is a majority. Experience will count just as much as education here -- you do NOT need to get the degree. If you know that this is what you want to do with your life, but you simply can't afford grad school, the Peace Corps or the military (I know, polar opposites right?) are very very good options and are heavily represented here. How does the Foreign Service assignment system work? For generalists (Foreign Service Officers) There are three systems for generalists, depending on what tour you are on: First tour, second tour, and third tour (mid-level) through the end. All three are completely different from each other. An FSOs first two tours are directed, which means that, though the officer gives input, the assignments office has the final say of who goes where. The initial two tours each normally last two years. For an FSO's first tour, a "bid list" is distributed during the first day or two of initial training (called A-100 in State parlance). The number of jobs on the list will roughly match the number of officers in the orientation class. Often, some posts will have several jobs open, such as if Moscow, Russia had two open consular positions. The current practice is to have new FSOs rank every job on the list either "high," "medium" or "low." Officers are also given the opportunity to turn in a "bid preference sheet," which allows them to explain their bidding strategy and interests. Officers will discuss their choices -- and their rational -- with a career development officer (CDO). At the entry level, the CDOs get together and assign the new officers to positions. They usually try to get everyone one of their "high" bids, but that is not always possible, and the CDOs' first responsibility is to fill vacant positions. At about the fifth week of A-100 (the course was previously seven weeks, but my class is only 6 weeks) there will be a "Flag Day" ceremony, where the whole class receives their assignments (and a small matching national flag, hence the name). Flag Day is also when the new officers find out how much and what kind of training they will receive before departing for post. From what I have understood, last class everyone got a high or medium, and for the past couple of classes, there have only been a few lows for the cases of people who did not do a great job on their bid sheets (i.e. maybe they only marked 4 highs, 10 mediums, and everything else low, and those first 14 high/mid posts were decided for others). You can probably expect the number of posts on your bid list to be equal to or maybe slightly higher than the number of people in your class -- although my class is significantly larger than normal so maybe that's not the case generally. I'm not 100% sure on how it works, but tandem couples (where both spouses are in the FS, either generalist or specialist) do not work off the bid list, because their destination will be determined in part by their spouse. So before you freak out about the bid lists, remember that there is a very very good chance that the posts you think are poo poo and don't want to go to, will likely be someone else's dream post. It all works out. When bidding for one's second tour, there are more jobs to choose from (I believe in previous classes there have been a couple hundred), but also more constraints on bidding. It is HR policy that all entry-level officers (ELOs) perform at least one year of consular work (the norm is more 2-4 years these days). What that means is that an FSO whose first tour is straight management work will only be able to bid on jobs with a consular component for the second tour. Also, ELOs may only receive one "full course" of language training during their first two tours. A full course is up to one year of training, but could mean the full six-month course of Spanish. So, if an ELO gets eight months of Korean in preparation for a first tour in Seoul, unless that officer has other preexisting language proficiency, he or she will only be able to bid on positions without a language requirement for the second tour. Another governing principle of second-tour bidding is the idea of "equity." Equity is calculated by adding the hardship differential and danger pay (if any) from the first tour, then giving officers with higher levels of equity priority for assignments. I'm told that the way that this works is every second-tour officer bidding will be put on a list, ranked by equity. So someone with the max of 50 equity (roughly, may be 55 or 60, but you get the point) will be at the top of the list, and will be considered for their post choices first. Officers with little to no equity will be at the bottom of the list. So people serving in Pakistan, for example, will have many more jobs to choose from than those in London. Going back to our hypothetical ELO in Seoul, keep in mind that Seoul is a "zero hardship" post, so you can imagine that this officer's choices would be limited. Two things to remember about equity: First, it ONLY applies in your second tour. After that, it does not matter. Second, needs of the service still rule. So even if you have crazy equity but due to you not having met your consular requirement, you will be going to a consular post. Or, if the service decides that you are absolutely needed in Tashkent, despite having just been in Ciudad Juarez and having nice equity and wanting to go to Rome, guess what: you're going to Tashkent. But there are other constraints, too. There are also language issues if an officer earned extra points for critical-needs language proficiency during the hiring process. I didn't do it, but as I understand if you got bump up points, you're probably going to be using that language. If it was a CNL, you're obligated to serve there at least once before tenure; if it was a SCNL you're obligated to serve there once before tenure and once again after tenure. Another factor is timing, which means that, even if you are fluent in French and otherwise qualified, if your first tour ends in April but that Paris job you want begins in October (to allow for six months of French study), you won't have a shot at it. The gap is just too large. Although there are many, many more jobs on the second-tour bid list than there are bidders, the extensive constraints mean that each bidder has only a small group of realistic bids. Fortunately, it's supposedly much less stressful, and much easier to get a job that you like. In mid-level bidding, which is everything after your first two tours and before you get into the Senior Foreign Service around the 20-year mark or so, the core of the process is lobbying for jobs. There is still a bid list (this is how you find out what jobs are available) and you still have a CDO, but getting jobs is all about your reputation and whom you know. There are some rules about bidding in your cone and at your grade, but these are not onerous and are mostly a formality. You basically identify jobs in which you are interested, then put in a formal bid, then do everything in your power to convince the decision maker (usually a director on a country desk or in a functional bureau) that you are the best fit for the job. You will also ask colleagues and supervisors to put in a good word for you with the decision maker. If the job is popular, lots of other people will be doing the same. If you go after jobs far outside your reach, you run the risk of getting none of your bids and having to re-bid after most of the best jobs are already gone. The upside to this process is that officers have enormous control over where they won't go, even if they don't necessarily get assigned to their dream job. I'm not familiar with the assignments process for specialists, so I will leave that explanation to one of my esteemed specialist colleagues. IMPORTANT NOTE from Vilerat: Places are unimportant, people make the place in this work. The best post could be a living hell if your Ambassador/DCM/MGMT suck but the worst hellhole on the planet could be the place you always remember as your favorite post if the community is awesome. Comment from Diplomaticus: You will be able to research an extensive amount of information about your posts. Trust me, I did not think that the majority of my "top bids" were going to be in Africa. The process can seem scary, but embassy life is MAJORLY different than local life, and even a post that sounds awful or scary can end up being one of your most memorable and favorite posts. What are the kinds of things you'll be forced to deal with in the Foreign Service? Vilerat posted:
"Dear Diplomaticus, Senator X is in town. Please take his wife shopping and find her something to do if she gets bored." Tell me about the Economic Track I'm not an Econ-coned officer, but I'm serving out-of-cone right now as Economic/Commercial officer. Econ is basically split into two categories -- the Econ side and the Commercial side. The Econ side is a lot of reporting on macroeconomic trends, high-level stuff. Working with the Finance Ministry of your host country to get them to move towards whatever it is you're asking them to do. You'll participate in bilateral and multilateral economic talks. You might help get the host nation to accede to the WTO. You might work on various trade agreements along with USTR. That sort of thing. The Commercial side is basically Business Development for those of you in the private sector. It's USG-run biz dev. US companies looking to invest in the host nation will come to you for market intelligence, assistance with navigating the local investment/regulatory environment, mediation during trade or customs disputes, introductions to local partners etc. There is a lot of overlap with USAID and the Commerce department, specifically the Foreign Commercial Service. Now, read everything in the Political officer section. All of that applies to you as well. Political and Econ officers do the exact same thing, just on slightly different subject matter, and there is a lot of overlap (things like counter-terrorism financing, narcotics controls, aviation security are all "political-like" jobs that typically are handled by the Econ officer. In many posts there is a Pol/Econ combined section rather than two different sections for political and economics, and Pol/Econ combined jobs are not uncommon. Tell me about the Public Diplomacy Track Zoots posted:After reading the handy and oh-so-charming summaries from Business of Ferrets and Diplomaticus, I thought I'd finally throw my hat in the ring as well. I'm a PD-coned officer currently doing ACS work. Just had my three-year anniversary in the FS this year, too. I'm also on medevac right now, so I'll try to answer questions relating to that. Basically, think spokesperson/press secretary. But there's more to it, because every FSO has to learn how to be a spokesperson when needed. A lot of what you'll do is personal outreach to organizations like museums, schools, community groups, etc. and present information about the US. For example, lets say you are in Embassy Ouagadougou -- you might be representing the Fulbright program there, or working with the Burkina Faso national art museum to set up an exhibition featuring Burkinabé-American painters living in the U.S. Also traditionally this was one of the harder tracks to get into. It's also one of the tracks that get a fair amount of language use, though not as much as management and consular. Tell me about the Management Track Don't have one of these yet either. According to State: Management Officers run our embassies and make American diplomacy work. A lot of what you will do is managing Foreign Service Nationals, help supervise the specialists running the housing pool, deal with construction poo poo, internal management stuff, etc. You may be the General Services Officer, and be in charge of the building materials and supply of the embassy, you may be in charge of a training course somewhere.....there are a LOT of things that Management officers get to do. You also will be supervising more foreign service nationals than any other job, meaning your language skills will be exercised WAY more than any other track (Consular is a close second). A lot of things in Washington fall under the Under Secretary for Management as well, including some things you might not immediately think of. Tell me about the Consular Track Business of Ferrets posted:I'm one FSO who really, really did not enjoy consular work. I am definitely not alone in this. A few reasons why some folks dislike consular work: Consular officers get a lot of use out of their language skills as they are dealing with visa applicants during the day, and supervising FSNs who will be native speakers. If you can work it so you get a consular position at a language designated post, you will get a LOT more proficient with your language than some random Econ officer will from just language school because you will be using it daily. Tell me about the Political Track Business of Ferrets posted:In the spirit of my comments on consular work, here is some of the bad/good of political work for the OP. There is a saying that the foreign service exists for Political officers, and everyone else supports them. There's a lot of truth to that statement, though not 100%. Tell me about Language Training Department of State posted:Effective with the October 2011 FSOT, all language testing will be administered only for candidates who pass the Oral Assessment. There will be no language testing prior to the QEP for any candidate. All other policies and procedures applying to post-FSOA testing remain in place. If State has one real strength from a training perspective, language instruction is it. My comments pertain to generalists, since I am not up-to-speed on opportunities for specialists. All training, language or otherwise, is tied to one's current or onward assignment. So, if you want to learn, say, Arabic, the key is to find a job that requires Arabic proficiency with enough time to complete language training before the job begins (this timing is usually worked into the position start date, so it is normally pretty straightforward). State has three broad categories of languages: (This may be a little out of date) "World" languages generally take six months of full-time instruction to go from no knowledge to a "3" level on the Interagency Language Roundtable (ILR) scale (http://www.govtilr.org/). World languages basically include the Romance and Germanic language families. German gets a few extra weeks of training for some reason. This family category is a bit larger than you might think and generally has nothing to do with the amount of countries that speak the language. "Hard" languages are allotted 44 weeks (one academic year) of instruction to reach the 3 level. With a few exceptions (see below), any language not a World language falls in this category. The "Super-Hard" languages, which are Arabic (including several dialects), Chinese (Mandarin and Cantonese), Japanese and Korean, have courses up to 88 weeks (two academic years) to get students to the 3 level. The second year is usually done overseas at a field school or contract program. There are U.S. Government field schools in While in language training you have no other work responsibilities. Most of the training for programs up to one year occur at the National Foreign Affairs Training Center/Foreign Service Institute (FSI) located in Arlington, Virginia. Classes tend to be small (usually one to four students) all all teachers are native speakers of their language. The FSI website says that more than 70 languages are taught there. Naturally, some programs are big, while others accomodate only a few students. If you are in between overseas assignments while in language training, you will receive per diem (with some exceptions that aren't worth going into here). There are regulations limiting the number of times an FSO can receive a full course of Hard or Super-Hard languages (twice, with the possibility of a third), and entry-level officers (ELOs; these are officers on their first or second tour) often don't receive full courses longer than six months because training eats into the clock for achieving tenure (a career requirement). Overall, though, most officers do two or three foreign languages, with many focusing on one or two during their career. There are also pay incentives to serve repeat tours using certain languages which encourage officers to to focus on one or two languages. Language requirements are part of the separate set of requirements for joining the Senior Foreign Service. There are also opportunities for self-study and language maintenance and improvement. These are handled on a case-by-case basis, but are usually pretty easy to get if needed or wanted. There is also language training for spouses available. Major changes to language testing, read below quote:Beginning with the June 2012 FSOT cohort, generalist candidates will receive .17 bonus points for all languages listed here (pdf) if they pass the telephone language test at a speaking level 3 after passing the Oral Assessment. Candidates testing in the eight languages eligible for higher bonus points need only a level 2 speaking ability to obtain a .17. The following eight languages are eligible for higher bonus points: Arabic; Chinese (Mandarin); Hindi; Persian (Dari); Persian (Farsi); Pashto; Urdu; and Korean. BOF posted:For generalists, this is very much the case, particularly after leaving the entry level. Nice places with few constraints for language proficiency or medical issues tend to be very heavily bid. From recent lists, I recall a single position in Sydney with 48 bidders and one in London with 29 bidders. These days, just about the only way to get to Paris, London, Brussels, Rome, (insert desireable European capital here) is to first go to Afghanistan or Iraq. For ELO generalists, without going into too much detail, I can say that there were a number of first-world capitals on my bid list. In many cases they were under-bid due to equity reasons (they will give you none). Cost of Living is another. But roughly speaking, it is much much much easier to get into these posts at entry level (even if it is something of a crap shoot) than it is later on. Note, since I'm not sure it's explained elsewhere -- equity means that the post you are in on your first tour is considered either a hardship, or hard to staff, or dangerous, or some combination there-of. You receive a certain "equity" for going there. Those with higher equity will get first crack at bidding on assignments on their second tour. Equity ceases to exist after your second tour, it's an entry-level thing only (though that being said, there are some similarities in mid-level bidding strategy involving Iraq, and Afghanistan. Can LGBT apply? Yes. See Secretary of State Hilary Clinton's remarks on benefits for same-sex domestic partners of foreign service employees. There are very few government organizations more progressive than State in this regard. At this point the only things holding them back, for the most part, require congressional legislation to change. Also there is an organization, GLIFAA (http://www.glifaa.org/) that will be available to advocate on your behalf as well as hosting events and meetings. You'll get the opportunity to sign up on your first day that you go to the main state dept. building, though you can obviously do so at any time. I joined and have found it to be very open, friendly, and worthwhile. *********************************************** Goons in the Foreign Service: (Possibly incomplete, locations probably out of date) FSO's - Generalists and Specialists *Business of Ferrets - almost a decade as an FSO (POL). In Japan (Yokohama and then Tokyo). * TCD- IMS specialist, * AKA pseudonym - IMS specialist, * ATI Jesus: * Leif./Diplomaticus/SWATJester - (POL) *pamchenko - USAID FSO. * Natural Ice - (CON) - Bangkok * 1of7 - IMS specialist - Chengdu * HOORAY - OMS Specialist. * Skandiaavity - IMS specialist. * the_chavi - (POL) - PRM/ANE, previously NEA/LEV (acronym changed, thanks gods of NEA), Tripoli, Istanbul, and Riyadh * Zoots - (PD?) in Rome. * Teleku - IMS Specialist * jayk - ??? Specialist - Bangkok. * Saho - IMS Specialist - Kathmandu * mtreecorner - OMS Sana'a, Yemen. * Homie_S - DS agent. * haggan - IMS Specialist * photoguy: SEO * mute: IMS * Bruxism: DS * Teleku: IMS, Warsaw * deemickgee * SCRwM - IMS - Tbilisi * Miscreant Fromage - OMS *problematique * Nutrimentia - previously CON/ECON - Abuja; now CON/POL - Seoul * d1rtbag - (CON) - July 2013 A-100. * Chinoosha - MGMT, January 2014 A-100. * Tyro - DS *HiroProtagonist - forever still awaiting clearances. *qwertyman *TheMantis - Addis Ababa *bloodnose - Guangzhou Other (Seabees, etc.) *shadowninja: MSG, Tanzania *Giodo!: Civil service, dc *psydude - works at FSI. What other resources are there? For the FSOT (written test): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fswe/ For the FSOA (oral assesment): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fsoa/ (Note: Specialists have their own group) There is a group for passers of the FSOA only, but if you're that far you should be knowledgeable, holler in the thread and someone will hook you up. Bruxism posted:HR has developed, and barely advertised, this great smart-phone app for people interested in careers at DOS: State also has a general app, with things like the daily press briefing, travel warnings, etc. It's actually worth getting, as you can get some pretty decent news and info there far more quickly than putzing around on the intranet. Leif. fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Jun 3, 2015 |
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Jul 7, 2009 15:52
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But seriously, it can be one of the most fun jobs overseas - not unlike being a federal party planner at times. To provide a very very general summary of the work:
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I'm in the same boat, we just missed the June test unfortunately and the next one is in Nov. If this type of job seems interesting to you why not take it? Don't tell me the odds. There is a sample booklet study guide type thing as well. Do you know any foreign languages?
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Jul 7, 2009 16:20
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Tell me about being a USAID Foreign Service Officer! (See bottom of post for Foreign Commercial Service/Foreign Agriculture Service)pamchenko posted:I absolutely have friends who do DG work (Democracy and Governance, which is our shorthand for that otherwise heinously long job title). Actually, that was my first choice, too, but I didn't hear back from them until after I'd already accepted the Program Officer position. Most people I know who are DG officers (or any kind of technical officer) really love their work. I think the major complaint about DG work would be that sometimes you're doing it in a hostile political environment (my go-to example is always Russia), and that can make your job, and sometimes your life, very challenging. Also, it's probably the hardest backstop to feel like you're making an actual difference in: it's much easier to measure something like # of TB cases per year than positive perception of civil society. But in general, people really seem to enjoy it. I just did a DG rotation, and I really enjoyed it, too. What do Foreign Commercial Service officers do? If we can get something from Foreign Commercial Service, that'd be great, as they're FSOs too! However, you can ask Diplomaticus about it, as he is a Commercial Attache at a FCS Partner Post (basically, since the Commercial Service is not at every mission, some embassies are designated "partner posts", and have one of there Economic Officers double as Commercial Attache: the official Commerce Dept. presence in that country, but they are State employees. All partner posts are tied to a main FCS post -- for instance Ethiopia, Uganda, Djibouti, Tanzania, Rwanda, and notionally Somalia are partner posts with FCS Nairobi in Kenya. Basically, FCS officers overseas are business development types. They try to promote US exports to that country, and import sourcing from the US. They do due diligence for US firms, set up meetings for them, pre-screen contacts in various commercial fields, and recruit delegations for reverse trade missions and International Buyer Programs. [b[ What do Foreign Agriculture Service officers do?[/b] They do similar stuff to a State dept. Economic officer, with a bit of the commercial portfolio from the FCS as well. They monitor the agriculture portfolio, which is both business oriented (commercial farms), food security oriented (in drought/famine countries, though USAID is the main organization for that) and commercial oriented (get US firms to sell agriculture products in that country, usually really hard to do with tariffs in non WTO countries). They also are the primary people involved in monitoring GMO crops, bio-availabilty, and other genetically modified stuff for agriculture. They're really small, even smaller than Commerce is at most posts, but I believe that they may be at more posts than Commerce is. Tell me About Family Life TCD posted:
Leif. fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Mar 9, 2013 |
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Jul 7, 2009 18:38
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I took the June FSOT and passed. It's broken up into 4 sections, one being a general knowledge smorgasbord of questions that I'd assume a graduating law student would do well on (questions on US governance, boilerplate IR questions- for context, I've got an MA in IR and didn't think anything on there was beyond college level poli-sci/history), an English grammar section that's honestly a lot less painful than the GRE, a series of management-style questions, and an essay. I'd heard the 85% fail statistic before, and I can't imagine why that is. However, even if you pass, they can decide to not process your application further. A friend of mine, who I would have thought was the personification of budding FSO, passed, and in the same letter, was told he wouldn't be invited to the next round. He could, however, start the entire process over again.
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Jul 7, 2009 20:59
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What happened after the test? As I understand it the hiring process is different than it was before with an oral exam. What was your next step, where are you now in the process? Also how long did you have to wait on stuff?
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Jul 7, 2009 23:35
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SWATJester posted:What happened after the test? As I understand it the hiring process is different than it was before with an oral exam. What was your next step, where are you now in the process? Also how long did you have to wait on stuff? About 3 weeks after the June test I got my results and the next step is the personal narrative--apparently they use the answers to those questions and the test scores to determine if you're invited to take the oral exam. I've heard that there is a lot of waiting. Even if you pass both tests you could end up waiting up to 18 months. If you aren't high enough on the list to get a job by then you have to start the entire process over again. There are lots of horror stories about people taking the oral exam 10 times, but the process works pretty well because every foreign service officer I have met is pretty smart and qualified.
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Jul 8, 2009 00:33
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SWATJester posted:What happened after the test? As I understand it the hiring process is different than it was before with an oral exam. What was your next step, where are you now in the process? Also how long did you have to wait on stuff? I have to do 5 short essay questions of >200 words in length, that basically ask some more questions regarding management, ability to communicate across cultures, etc. Then, according to my letter, I get to wait until October to find out if I'm going to be invited for oral interviews. In all honesty, I get the purpose of the oral interviews and whatnot, but I think they grade the test the same way they pick the pope or something: toss each one on a fire, and if it smokes white, you pass, if it's black smoke, FAIL.
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Jul 8, 2009 17:17
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SWATJester posted:So I'm graduating law school this year, and there's no jobs. My family has always wanted me to join the Foreign Service, and after reviewing the State department's website, it sounds interesting. Expect a long, very slow process even if you pass. And once you get past the written exam, I doubt you are going to find many mouth breathers. Even for FS Specialists, the time from submit application to passing the "review" passing the oral, passing med and security, can take around 2 years. I'd imagine for the Officer and Specialist positions are being flooded with solid applicants. Good luck. Also, I remember on another message board some ivy league law grad getting denied multiple times in the QEP process. Always passed the written, never invited for an oral. Edit: SWAT, I'd consider taking the bar, and other avenues of employment. Nothing is for sure, and the statistics that you hear about are ones that I've heard too... If the next written test is in Nov, you're still looking around what, next Spring for the next round of orals? TCD fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Jul 8, 2009 |
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Jul 8, 2009 22:33
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Would having a law degree overqualify me for the position or will it be right smack dab in the middle of competitive? Also, I had a secret clearance when I was in the military, will that work to speed up the security clearance? And finally, IIRC this is an exempted service position right? Will I still receive veterans preference (I qualify for 5 points). I kind of wish there were like...recruiters or something, some sort of career counselor like the military has for these kinds of questions.
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Jul 9, 2009 00:27
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SWATJester posted:Would having a law degree overqualify me for the position or will it be right smack dab in the middle of competitive? When I talked to an incoming A100 class, they were all over the place in experience and age, but there were quite a few who had Masters, PhDs, or JDs. Most had experience using those degrees however. Your military experience should help on your essays in the sense of you have an understanding of rigors of overseas life, and the ability to live in hardship areas (and the chance of doing unaccompanied tours). In other words, your law degree doesn't over qualify you or make you a shoe in. edit: Your law degree can help how you present yourself both on paper (via the writings, and of course during the orals). Or so I've been told... Security clearance, I don't think so. I know a person who came from Navy with a TS and it took longer to get his DoS TS compared to others who never held a clearance. I think they still shoot for 3-6 months and most new people I've talked have been in that range, with a few taking close to a year, and some taking around a month. I think your veteran preference counts ONCE you make it past the orals. I think that's when they add your vet preference to your score which then puts you in position on the register. Again, not entirely sure, but I thought that's the way it worked. :edited a few things Dept of State website posted:# Can you give me an idea of the average time frame for completing the security and medical clearances? http://careers.state.gov/officer/faqs.html TCD fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Jul 9, 2009 |
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Jul 9, 2009 01:02
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Does anyone know anything about the telephone language tests? I've taken the written exam before and passed but I've never gone forward with the rest of the process due to a family member with a serious illness. I took the exam again in June now that family life is a little more stable and I passed. I'm not totally excited about the personal narrative (they never asked me to do one before), but whatever. The thing that concerns me is the language test. I've actually taken 3 of their "most wanted languages" but it's been years since I've really spoken them. Does anyone have any advice besides going out and getting Rosetta Stone to brush up? I'm really hoping my language skills can give me a few extra points.
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Jul 9, 2009 01:58
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SWATJester posted:And finally, IIRC this is an exempted service position right? Will I still receive veterans preference (I qualify for 5 points). Yeah, if you make it to the oral assessment, you have to reach a certain points threshold to be given a job offer (and if you reach that points threshold I believe the offer is automatic). Veterans are given a slight boost in points from the get-go. If you speak a need language you are also given a slight boost in points (Arabic is the highest, then things like Russian, Farsi, Urdu, Serbo-Croatian, etc.) Plus it helps in the QEP stage because it adds to your resume and makes it more likely you'll be invited to the oral assessment in the first place. A law degree isn't going to overqualify you. Most people applying will have advanced degrees (most commonly Masters in International Relations or the such). The written exam is easy as pie if you're relatively intelligent and someone who's graduated law school isn't going to have a tough time with it at all. I passed it but did not get invited to the oral assessment (I assumed I wouldn't, my resume isn't super-impressive and my essays were pretty weak).
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Jul 9, 2009 18:27
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Awesome. Also, I read that State is creating 2100 more jobs, about 1200 of which are expected to be Specialist or A100 positions...anyone know about this?
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Jul 9, 2009 21:26
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SWATJester, First of all: Do go, Awesome jobs, Die well traveled. I have spent almost a decade as a Foreign Service Officer (FSO) with the State Department, and it is one of the very best jobs out there. Travel the world. Work issues those International Law Pandas can only dream about. Get paid to learn languages. Make good money (along with a great retirement plan!) There are plenty of JDs around State (we sometimes refer to them as "recovering attorneys"), so you will be in good company. As others have said, having had a previous clearance won't help with the process, but your veteran's status will. In addition to State's career page, there are a couple of other really good resources out there: For the FSOT (written test): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fswe/ For the FSOA (oral assesment): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fsoa/ I don't want to go into too much personal detail here, but do PM me with any questions you might have -- I'll fill in the gory details (background, places I've worked, etc.) there. I'm happy to answer any general questions in this thread, too.
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Jul 19, 2009 08:52
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Business of Ferrets posted:SWATJester, There are a lot of people here who would be interested in learning more from you. What is your background? What is the background of other people you worked with? Do most people come from certain schools/academic backgrounds? What is the average age of a new hire? Can people transition from a FSO position to an CIA type position? I've always thought being an FSO sounded like a great career. If I ever get accepted into the Peace Corps I've thought about giving it a shot.
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Jul 19, 2009 14:43
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gently caress these personal narratives. I hate them.
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Jul 19, 2009 14:52
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quote:What is your background? I joined the Foreign Service directly after graduating with my undergraduate degree. Prior to that, I had quite a bit of volunteer work but no full-time employment. quote:What is the background of other people you worked with? It's all across the board. I know folks who, in prior lives, were oceanographers, archeologists, botanists, NGO workers, Peace Corps volunteers, military (both enlisted and commissioned), law enforcement, teachers, comedy writers, lawyers, etc. When they say no specific major or field of study is required, they really mean it. My classmates and colleagues come from a full range of colleges and universities -- some I've heard of, and some I haven't. Graduates of good international studies grad programs tend to be well represented, but by no means a majority. quote:What is the average age of a new hire? Most are late 20s to 30s, but oldest dude in my class was 56. Youngest was 21. You have to join before you turn 60 (to allow a minimal pension to vest). quote:Can people transition from a FSO position to an CIA type position? One could always make a formal job application, but there is no mechanism within the Service to do so; they are two separate organizations. If you're talking about analysis, the State Department has its own intelligence bureau in Washington where FSOs can work for periods of time as analysts. quote:I've always thought being an FSO sounded like a great career. If I ever get accepted into the Peace Corps I've thought about giving it a shot. Why not just skip the Peace Corps and go straight for State? The diplomatic lifestyle is much more comfortable.
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Jul 19, 2009 15:09
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Business of Ferrets: Do they like to see foreign language skills prior to joining? I would think about skipping the peace corps but I have nothing about me that stands out. I have a marketing degree from no name state school and the only work experience I have is that I'm currently an AmeriCorps volunteer. From what I hear, some solid experience and a grad degree from a good IR university is the best shot at getting hired. But maybe I'm mistaken.
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Jul 19, 2009 15:37
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Knowing a language reasonably well will improve your chances of getting hired, but is not necessary. That said, it seemed like most of my classmates knew at least one foreign language, and lots of folks knew more than one. If your language is a "critical need" (see State's recruitment website for more info) like Arabic, Hindi, Chinese, or the like, you will get a bigger bump than, say, proficiency in French or Dutch. PCV experience always looks good on the resume, so that is a good way to hedge your bets (though I don't know how competitive Peace Corps is these days). At the same time you should apply (and keep applying each year) to the Foreign Service; the initial test is free and you are not penalized for repeated attempts (lots of FSOs took the tests more than once).
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Jul 19, 2009 15:48
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Regarding the foreign language aspect, you receive a 0.4 bonus for Critical Needs languages and a 0.17 bonus for other foreign languages. (can only apply once) So even if you managed to completely fail at playing up your language ability in other parts of the assessment, the score bump surely helps
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Jul 19, 2009 16:04
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Funkameleon posted:Regarding the foreign language aspect, you receive a 0.4 bonus for Critical Needs languages and a 0.17 bonus for other foreign languages. (can only apply once) How many points do you need to be considered for acceptance?
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Jul 19, 2009 17:46
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5.25 out of 7 to pass. However then you get put on an order of merit list and racked and stacked with everyone else who passed. What you need to stand a realistic chance of getting hired varies depending on what cone you want and how competitive the selection is. I think they've gone down to a 5.4 for the political cone, whereas previously you wanted a 5.6 or higher to stand a good shot.
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Jul 19, 2009 20:30
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Just wanted to comment that there is presently a program in place that can help FS Specialists transition to the Officer side. You still have to do the Oral Exam on your own dime, but if you get a passing score on the oral, you pretty much transition right into the next A100 class. You bypass the order list ranking. There's also a few ways where you can not take the FSOT as a way to get invited to the Orals.
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Jul 19, 2009 22:12
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I'm very interested in foreign cultures, but I've heard that the foreign service encourages its members to keep their distance to prevent them from becoming too attached. This discourages me, because I'm a fan of living in foreign cultures just as the people in those same cultures do. Can anyone say anything about this?
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Jul 20, 2009 05:39
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Have any of you FSOs worked with US military Foreign Area Officers before? If so, what exactly was your relationship with them like?
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Jul 20, 2009 07:13
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Liface posted:I'm very interested in foreign cultures, but I've heard that the foreign service encourages its members to keep their distance to prevent them from becoming too attached. This discourages me, because I'm a fan of living in foreign cultures just as the people in those same cultures do. Not at all the case. You're basically able to integrate as much as you please into your host country's culture. Now, in many places you will be wealthier and live in nicer housing than many of the locals, so that could get in the way of living "just" like the locals. Or maybe you would be living just like the local elite. psydude posted:Have any of you FSOs worked with US military Foreign Area Officers before? If so, what exactly was your relationship with them like? I have worked extensively with FAOs from the Marines, Navy, Army and Air Force. They have almost all been sharp, impressive folks. As far as the relationship goes, when our work brings us together, we work together and, in the places I've served, at least, we have consulted frequently with one another. I really like the mil folks, personally.
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Jul 20, 2009 12:44
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Business of Ferrets posted:Not at all the case. I would disagree with that statement. It seems like they are able to place restrictions on what you can do if they see fit. "U.S. government officials and their families in Colombia are permitted to travel to major cities in the country, but normally only by air. They may not use inter- or intra-city bus transportation, or travel by road outside urban areas at night." http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_941.html
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Jul 20, 2009 19:59
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Puddins posted:Does anyone know anything about the telephone language tests? I took my Chinese (Mandarin) language test last week. The conversation started out easily enough and then tester kept pushing until she hit the edge of my ability to express myself. Coming away from the test, I wish I was more aggressive about directing the conversation, I would have done a lot better discussing international trade than comparative construction methods between China and the US. From what I have been able to read online, the test itself is pass/fail based on whether or not you hit S2, but you don't get your ILR speaking score. Thankfully, super critical needs language speakers get another opportunity to test after passing the oral assessment, and then every six months after that for as long as they are on the register. Apparently, speaking a super critical needs language is worth more towards your spot on the register than a 10 pt veterans preference, so you definitely want to take the test if you can. xanthig fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Jul 20, 2009 |
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Jul 20, 2009 20:40
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DustingDuvet posted:I would disagree with that statement. It seems like they are able to place restrictions on what you can do if they see fit. Re-read the question and the response and your quote. This does not appear to be the case of the FS preventing families from becoming too attached to the area. Edit: Now if you read your quoted travel response there are other reasons on how certain liberties in countries might be restricted for various reasons compared to that of an expat coming into the country on their own. TCD fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jul 20, 2009 |
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Jul 20, 2009 20:43
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DustingDuvet posted:I would disagree with that statement. It seems like they are able to place restrictions on what you can do if they see fit. Those are fairly rare and mostly common sense anyways. There are a handful of places where fraternization with the locals is restricted due to concerns about espionage, Cuba springs to mind. But tons of people are married to people they met while posted abroad, sometimes it seems like it's the norm.
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Jul 20, 2009 22:04
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A more relevant question than what is a DoS employee allowed to do is what is DoS corporate culture like with regards to getting your hand dirty? US embassies seem to try real hard to be small enclaves of the USA, shutting themselves off from the countries they are in behind fortress walls. So how engaged are foreign service officers with the host countries? Do they get to go out into the field much, or culturally is that avoided as much as possible? How adventurous is you average embassy employee? For instance, how many of them would eat a tarantula when invited to by a host? What defines hardship for a posting?
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Jul 21, 2009 04:22
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It sounds like a lot/most of applicants have advanced degrees. How important is your academic background? Further, does employment at a national level intelligence agency have a bearing on your application chances? Note that I am not a member of such an organization, but I do know someone who is, who has an advanced degree, and who is interested in applying. For me, I have no advanced degree, hence my first question. :P
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Jul 21, 2009 04:25
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Zoo posted:It sounds like a lot/most of applicants have advanced degrees. How important is your academic background? As best as I know for Officers, you just need to have your resume and application packet make it past FSOT the QEP process. Once you get past that point, it's all about you at the Orals, not your resume and that's where it gets hard. So, apply. You can apply multiple times and take the FSOT and Orals multiple times.
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Jul 21, 2009 05:00
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Does anyone know which cones are the most/least difficult to get in to?
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Jul 21, 2009 07:59
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xanthig posted:A more relevant question than what is a DoS employee allowed to do is what is DoS corporate culture like with regards to getting your hand dirty? Most people are pretty adventurous and the culture is really geared towards getting out and experiencing things. They ask you right up front if your willing to live anywhere in the world so that immediately filters for people who are at least comfortable with that. And you live on the economy so your shopping, eating, and living next to the locals. They might be some of the wealthier locals but they're locals. I don't know about a tarnatula specificly but one of the things I like about the Foreign Service is that it's pretty easy to round people up to go eat something weird.
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Jul 21, 2009 08:15
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Ganguro King posted:Does anyone know which cones are the most/least difficult to get in to? Political, economic, Public Diplomacy, Management, Consular.
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Jul 21, 2009 13:05
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Kase Im Licht posted:From hardest to easiest its something like: Close but PD is in higher demand than Econ. I can chime in from a IMS/IMTS background or more recently Management if anybody has any questions. I really didn't realize we had so many State types on here these days.
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Jul 21, 2009 13:49
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TCD posted:As best as I know for Officers, you just need to have your resume and application packet make it past FSOT the QEP process. Once you get past that point, it's all about you at the Orals, not your resume and that's where it gets hard. Though the process has changed since I went through it, I think there is a "structured interview" section of the FSOA where a resume plays a role. The idea, though, that strong performance at the FSOA is key can't be ignored; you have to pass the FSOA before things like language or veterans preference can bump you up.
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Jul 21, 2009 15:03
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Happydayz posted:5.25 out of 7 to pass. However then you get put on an order of merit list and racked and stacked with everyone else who passed. How do you go about computing a hypothetical score? The written exam score is rolled into that possible 7, right?
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Jul 21, 2009 19:33
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pragan4 posted:How do you go about computing a hypothetical score? The written exam score is rolled into that possible 7, right? I don't believe the written exam is considered in that score. I thought it was just your overall score for the oral exam part (the out of 7 points).
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Jul 21, 2009 22:06
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