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Jammer Jones
Jul 11, 2002

Member of the Yomiko Readman Fanboy Army!

We might take a small squad out to MGP Op Crimson Tiger end of May (Ocala). Most likely gonna be green, Deviant , chitoryu12 are you guys going to it?

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Deviant
Sep 26, 2003

i've forgotten all of your names.


Jammer Jones posted:

We might take a small squad out to MGP Op Crimson Tiger end of May (Ocala). Most likely gonna be green, Deviant , chitoryu12 are you guys going to it?

I'll be one of the admin radio operators. We're using a system for this where every squad gets a dedicated admin with walkie talkie to avoid the comms clusterfuck.

Unsure of uniform. Wooland or black.

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



Jammer Jones posted:

We might take a small squad out to MGP Op Crimson Tiger end of May (Ocala). Most likely gonna be green, Deviant , chitoryu12 are you guys going to it?

Unfortunately I'll be missing it. That's the tail end of my vacation, so I'll be in New Jersey or Pennsylvania when it goes on.

OssiansFolly
Aug 3, 2012

Suffering at the factory of sadness every year.

If I want to do some outdoor milsim events that run either Tan or Green is it fine if I wear a black plate carrier? I am thinking of just getting some Tan and Green BDUs...

Verman
Jul 4, 2005
Third time is a charm right?


Most events dont really have requirements on gear color, just camo color. Maybe consider going coyote brown as it lends itself with green or tan fairly well.

Infidelicious
Apr 9, 2013


Seconding Coyote, Black looks weird and out of place except on navy or black IMO.

Scruff McGruff
Feb 13, 2007

Jesus, kid, you're almost a detective. All you need now is a gun, a gut, and three ex-wives.

Another vote for Coyote, I have yet to find a camo it doesn't go well with. But yeah, I have never seen an event that required certain camo for gear, just BDUs.

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



Black is something for indoor CQB where camo doesn't matter much or a specific impression. It's kinda lovely as camo against anything that's not a black background, even at night. Multicam tends to work well at most fields as long as you're not fighting in a field of snow or on black volcanic rock (I've nearly tripped over guys in multicam at Wayne's World, which is so close to a tropical jungle in Florida that it's been used for Vietnam games). Since I almost exclusively play in forests my M81 woodland is decent, with the biggest problem being my bright tan goggles.

My SADF Pattern 83 chest rig is an odd color. It's called Nutria brown, and is slightly darker than coyote and meant to be dirtied during service on the savanna until it's the right color.

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady


Black worked fine in Somalia

Drizvolta
Oct 31, 2011



Arquinsiel posted:

Black worked fine in Somalia

Too bad the helicopters didn't

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady


Drizvolta posted:

Too bad the helicopters didn't
They worked fine too. It's actually a hilariously dumb story when you dig into it.

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



Arquinsiel posted:

They worked fine too. It's actually a hilariously dumb story when you dig into it.

"Plates for our vests? Extra water? Meh, gently caress that. Too heavy."

Edit: Michael Wong, an engineer who runs stardestroyer.net, actually discussed the incident in Mogadishu when explaining the myth of "They couldn't be elite troops if they lost to a bunch of rebels/primitive natives/other inferior group" by demonstrating a real life instance:

quote:

I would urge readers to study the example of the US Army's elite Rangers, SEALs, and Delta Force commandos in Somalia. During a disastrous mission in which two Blackhawk helicopters were shot down, they demonstrated exactly the kind of overconfidence that I'm describing. They arrogantly performed what should have been a night operation in broad daylight, and they didn't bother bringing any "unnecessary" dead weight, such as water canteens, bayonets, or night-sight equipment. Some of them even removed the armour plates from their flak jackets, so they would be more comfortable in the heat! Worse yet, mission security was horrendous; Somali staff at the U.S. Embassy easily discovered the time and place of the mission, and forwarded this information to Aidid's men! The problems didn't even stop there; they had no heavy reinforcements or armour in case of serious resistance, and they only had one rescue team, which became a huge problem when not one, but two choppers went down. They couldn't even co-ordinate their activities; the Rangers and Delta Force commandos butted heads over tactics and chain of command, and an Orion spy plane wasn't permitted to give direct instructions to the men on the ground even though it was the only platform with a clear view of what was happening. The litany of mistakes continued with the rescue convoys, which literally got lost and ambushed en route to the crash site because of unfamiliarity with the city streets and poor direction from the helicopters above. In the confusion, the Americans fired on anyone with a gun, and then anyone who was around someone with a gun, and eventually, at anything that moved, thus causing hundreds of civilian casualties. A simple mission to kidnap two men turned into a chaotic 12 hour firefight, in which nearly a hundred American soldiers were killed or wounded. If this were a fictional war story, it would have been lambasted for being hopelessly unrealistic. People would say "no real soldiers would be so incompetent". But these men were not incompetent; they were overconfident and inadequately prepared. They demonstrated to the world (at least, the part of the world that reads books instead of getting all their information from action movies) that even the best trained, best equipped soldiers can still can be stymied by poor preparation and the inherent difficulties of combat in difficult and unfamiliar terrain.

chitoryu12 fucked around with this message at 02:09 on May 2, 2015

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady


And none of that would have mattered if someone had sat down and worked out how the Rangers and D-boys would let each other know they were ready to go when their respective missions were complete. There's a 20 to 40 minute (depending on who you ask) period while both of them sat on their asses waiting for the guys on the other side of a door to let them know they were even there. The drive to the airport was three minutes. That's one hell of a whoopsie on the timetable.

Drythe
Aug 26, 2012


 


OssiansFolly posted:

If I want to do some outdoor milsim events that run either Tan or Green is it fine if I wear a black plate carrier? I am thinking of just getting some Tan and Green BDUs...

Most don't care. Most in Ohio are also run by my friends and the colors that are best to get would be Marpat or Woodland and Despat or Multicam for green and tan respectively.

Chillyrabbit
Oct 24, 2012

The only sword wielding rabbit on the internet




Ultra Carp

How do I make a new thread to get it stickied?

Drythe
Aug 26, 2012


 


PM a mod

OssiansFolly
Aug 3, 2012

Suffering at the factory of sadness every year.

chitoryu12 posted:

Black is something for indoor CQB where camo doesn't matter much or a specific impression. It's kinda lovely as camo against anything that's not a black background, even at night. Multicam tends to work well at most fields as long as you're not fighting in a field of snow or on black volcanic rock (I've nearly tripped over guys in multicam at Wayne's World, which is so close to a tropical jungle in Florida that it's been used for Vietnam games). Since I almost exclusively play in forests my M81 woodland is decent, with the biggest problem being my bright tan goggles.

My SADF Pattern 83 chest rig is an odd color. It's called Nutria brown, and is slightly darker than coyote and meant to be dirtied during service on the savanna until it's the right color.

I mainly play indoor, so I'd say less than 5% of my time would be any outdoor stuff. I have black currently because of the fact that I play indoors.


Drythe posted:

Most don't care. Most in Ohio are also run by my friends and the colors that are best to get would be Marpat or Woodland and Despat or Multicam for green and tan respectively.

I won't wear camo. Anything I get will be solid colored in Coyote Brown, Tan or OD Green. My step dad raised me not to wear camo...camo is for the military and unless you are in the military there is no reason to wear it as a fashion accessory.

Drythe
Aug 26, 2012


 


ok

Deviant
Sep 26, 2003

i've forgotten all of your names.


OssiansFolly posted:

camo is for the military and unless you are in the military there is no reason to wear it as a fashion accessory.

Or hunters in the woods?

Or animals:

quote:

"The octopus ... seeks its prey by so changing its colour as to render it like the colour of the stones adjacent to it; it does so also when alarmed." - Aristotle, 350bc.

"Camouflage has been a topic of interest and research in zoology for well over a century." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camouflage

Or Mediterranean pirate ships, which were painted blue to blend against the sea.

You unresolved issues with your stepfather aside, there's a million good reasons to wear camo, including but not limited to YOU ARE LITERALLY PLAYING A MILITARY SIMULATION.

Drythe
Aug 26, 2012


 


Deviant posted:

including but not limited to YOU ARE LITERALLY PLAYING A MILITARY SIMULATION.

DrAlexanderTobacco
Jun 11, 2012

Help me find my true dharma


OssiansFolly posted:

I won't wear camo. Anything I get will be solid colored in Coyote Brown, Tan or OD Green. My step dad raised me not to wear camo...camo is for the military and unless you are in the military there is no reason to wear it as a fashion accessory.

Hey, if the opposing team can see just how fabulous I am, then it's failed as camouflage.

Deviant
Sep 26, 2003

i've forgotten all of your names.


DrAlexanderTobacco posted:

Hey, if the opposing team can see just how fabulous I am, then it's failed as camouflage.

For a long time I had bright red dyed hair, and several times people raised their guns to me, thought it was a dead rag, and moved on.

They eventually made me put on a hat.

I'll see if I can find it, somewhere there's a picture of me hiding in a bush, and all you can see is a bright red tuft poking out. From the time I cosplayed as a Hibiscus, apparently.

OssiansFolly
Aug 3, 2012

Suffering at the factory of sadness every year.

Deviant posted:

Or hunters in the woods?

Or animals:


Or Mediterranean pirate ships, which were painted blue to blend against the sea.

You unresolved issues with your stepfather aside, there's a million good reasons to wear camo, including but not limited to YOU ARE LITERALLY PLAYING A MILITARY SIMULATION.

I don't have any unresolved issues with him. I was raised to be respectful, and this was one thing he was adamant about. He served the country (by force) and paid for it when he came home. The least I can do is respect what he has taught me.

Camo in milsim games just isn't effective...unless you are laying down on the ground I can see you moving...

As far as hunting...every time I go hunting I wear Orange, because I don't trust other people not to suck.

Drythe
Aug 26, 2012


 


As long as no one wears a clown costume to airsoft. My dad was a professional clown and it's disrespectful to do that.

Deviant
Sep 26, 2003

i've forgotten all of your names.


Drythe posted:

As long as no one wears a clown costume to airsoft. My dad was a professional clown and it's disrespectful to do that.

*3 page diatribe about the history of clowning*

..clownery.
..the clownic arts?
..clownology?

i dont know

Drythe
Aug 26, 2012


 


The noble clownic arts, thanks. Please stop trying to trigger me.

Deviant
Sep 26, 2003

i've forgotten all of your names.


Drythe posted:

The noble clownic arts, thanks. Please stop trying to trigger me.

Airsoft Megathread 4: Please Stop Trying to Trigger Me

Westie
May 30, 2013



Baboon Simulator


Deviant posted:

Airsoft Megathread 4: Please Stop Trying to Trigger Me

Too late, I put in a double-gated MOSFET.

Scruff McGruff
Feb 13, 2007

Jesus, kid, you're almost a detective. All you need now is a gun, a gut, and three ex-wives.

Please don't wear ACU, it's disrespectful to the Army...


Because it reminds them that they used ACU.

Thump!
Nov 25, 2007

Look, fat, here's the fact, Kulak!





OssiansFolly posted:

I don't have any unresolved issues with him. I was raised to be respectful, and this was one thing he was adamant about. He served the country (by force) and paid for it when he came home. The least I can do is respect what he has taught me.

Camo in milsim games just isn't effective...unless you are laying down on the ground I can see you moving...

As far as hunting...every time I go hunting I wear Orange, because I don't trust other people not to suck.

Cool story, I guess? M81s and Multicam are actually super effective camouflages and work well in their respective environments, hth.

Scruff McGruff
Feb 13, 2007

Jesus, kid, you're almost a detective. All you need now is a gun, a gut, and three ex-wives.

I will say, I didn't expect camo to matter much in airsoft when I started playing because of the short engagement distances, but especially when playing in wooded environments it's seriously hard to see dudes sometimes if they're not moving.

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



OssiansFolly posted:

Camo in milsim games just isn't effective...unless you are laying down on the ground I can see you moving...

Sure.

Let me give you a piece of advice: you may have been raised to believe in certain things, but your responsibility as an adult is to understand when things you were raised to believe aren't necessarily true and learn to live as your own man. I can guarantee you that not a single reasonable soldier you ask will tell you that wearing camouflage is disrespectful or useless.

chitoryu12 fucked around with this message at 18:16 on May 4, 2015

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady


^^^^
Mad Mike Hoare?

Oh wait, you said reasonable.

OssiansFolly posted:

Camo in milsim games just isn't effective...unless you are laying down on the ground I can see you moving...
Dude.... one time a local fabric place had this in stock so a bunch of us dressed up as Tanith First and Only for Halloween. While in the supermarket buying booze and junk food to take back to a party we lost each other because if we stopped and faced the shelves we just didn't look like people standing there. In a supermarket. Camo works.

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



I've literally nearly tripped over guys in multicam before because they just crouched or went prone in the grass. The vast majority of BBs that take me out in the forest, I never even see the gun that fires them. If you're not specifically looking for the camouflaged soldier, you probably won't see him unless he makes his presence known.

If camo didn't actually work in milsim, we wouldn't wear it in the actual military. Do you think camo patterns are just a modern form of the old bright red and blue Napoleonic uniforms, a way to recognize which nation you're from?

Verman
Jul 4, 2005
Third time is a charm right?


Multicam is typically one of the most effective camo patterns I've ever played against in nearly any environment. The worst part about it is that it can look green or tan depending on where you are at and most of my local milsim places play tan vs green games so it creates some confusion. My local airsoft/milsim organization has taken multicam off the table for that reason. People in multi cam were complaining about being friendly fired too often. Easy solution ... wear green (woodland, OD, digital woodland etc) or tan (digital desert, khaki, 3 color desert etc).

In my game this weekend, I noticed black stood out the most. Any black gear stood out such as helmets, facemasks, vests, etc.

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



Verman posted:

Multicam is typically one of the most effective camo patterns I've ever played against in nearly any environment. The worst part about it is that it can look green or tan depending on where you are at and most of my local milsim places play tan vs green games so it creates some confusion. My local airsoft/milsim organization has taken multicam off the table for that reason. People in multi cam were complaining about being friendly fired too often. Easy solution ... wear green (woodland, OD, digital woodland etc) or tan (digital desert, khaki, 3 color desert etc).

In my game this weekend, I noticed black stood out the most. Any black gear stood out such as helmets, facemasks, vests, etc.

This occurred with some MGP games as well. Typically the factions are divided between multiple camo patterns, which helps let people with varying uniforms show up (and there's almost always a faction in civvies). Problems usually occur when people don't 100% commit to a camo, like wearing a tan shirt with multicam sleeves or elbows and multicam pants; even if there's not a strict tan or khaki faction uniform, it's just different enough from a guy in full multicam to incite pause if you randomly stumbled across him. The team in green uniforms always has a mixture, like M81 woodland with flecktarn, DPM, and Russian flora. Then sometimes guys show up in more esoteric stuff; at this past Amerika game there was an American Vietnam re-enactor who was put on the American team (though green uniforms were all on the Nazi Occupation side) because he was in such a distinctive American getup. The same game had a guy in a full World War II Japanese getup, and he was given a red armband and placed on the bad guys as a "Japanese adviser."

Scruff McGruff
Feb 13, 2007

Jesus, kid, you're almost a detective. All you need now is a gun, a gut, and three ex-wives.

It drives me nuts when for almost all of the MiA milsim events they have right in the OP in giant red letters "ONLY THESE LISTED CAMOS ARE ACCEPTED, DON'T EVEN ASK ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE" and inevitably the 3rd loving post will be something like "Can I wear ACU/ATACS/Highlander/Mandrake/Clown Costume? I didn't see it on the camo list so I assume you just forgot to put it." Every. loving. Time. Just go to the local Milsurp store and get some m81 and some 3 color for like $20 and you are good to go for 99% of all milsim events!

These are almost always the same people that will show up to the game and will sit around during chrono and then come up at the last second because "I didn't realize we had to chrono." which then becomes "WHAT DO YOU MEAN I CAN'T USE MY 40RPS 550FPS SUPERSNIPER RIFLE AND HICAPS!" when the FPS limits and mid-cap requirements are also listed on the forum OP in giant red letters and are literally the standard pretty much everywhere. This seriously happens at every event.

I can never tell if these people are genuinely that stupid and didn't read ANY of the OP or are just trying to get away with as much as possible for any slight advantage because they just have to win a BB Warz because otherwise what the heck have they done with their lives.

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady


Scruff McGruff posted:

I can never tell if these people are genuinely that stupid and didn't read ANY of the OP or are just trying to get away with as much as possible for any slight advantage because they just have to win a BB Warz because otherwise what the heck have they done with their lives.
The word I have hilighted should be "and" in my experience.

Verman
Jul 4, 2005
Third time is a charm right?


People spend a ton of money replicating some call of duty character but then get all Aspergers when they're told they can't wear their favorite dress to the prom.

They are either stupid, ignorant, or self centered and don't think rules apply to them. Our rules are written insanely black and white assuming that most adults playing airsoft at least have the literacy rate of a 3rd grade student, we are often surprised.

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TerminalSaint
Apr 20, 2007


Where must we go...

we who wander this Wasteland in search of our better selves?


Verman posted:

Multicam is typically one of the most effective camo patterns I've ever played against in nearly any environment. The worst part about it is that it can look green or tan depending on where you are at and most of my local milsim places play tan vs green games so it creates some confusion. My local airsoft/milsim organization has taken multicam off the table for that reason. People in multi cam were complaining about being friendly fired too often. Easy solution ... wear green (woodland, OD, digital woodland etc) or tan (digital desert, khaki, 3 color desert etc).

In my game this weekend, I noticed black stood out the most. Any black gear stood out such as helmets, facemasks, vests, etc.

Maybe it's just where I've played, but guys in multicam always stick out to me because it's too light. It's better than nothing, but any universal camo is going to be a compromise.

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