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devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer
I encountered this highly technical sign on the side of the Merrit Parkway the other day.



Why has the Merrit been under construction on Friday nights for like the past three years?

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devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

Cichlidae posted:

They're not going to close lanes during the day. Pretty much every bridge there is falling down, so there's constant palliative care going on.

Is that a paper plate or a pie tin, by the way? I have to figure out if the contractor's been over-billing us.

Paper plate, there's a whole series of them. I think they were about every 50 ft.

This time, it looked like they were adding concrete gutters along the side of the road? (They're in that picture)

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer
Traffic calming question:

My road is ~24 ft wide right now. The town is planning on widening it to 30ft, and adding curbs. They claim this will slow traffic, but I don't really see how.

Do curbs somehow slow people down? Is there anything I should be asking them to explain? We live on a side street that's between two major roads, so we get a lot of people driving very fast as a 'shortcut'.

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

Peanut President posted:

Just straight up widening it with no new lanes or adding parking or anything? If so then they're bullshitting you.

No new lanes that they've told us about. On street parking is already allowed (and this is a very suburban road where they loved to build massively wide driveways. No one really parks on the road anyway).

We've got the guy coming out on Wednesday to explain wtf they're actually going to do, so we'll see...

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

devicenull posted:

No new lanes that they've told us about. On street parking is already allowed (and this is a very suburban road where they loved to build massively wide driveways. No one really parks on the road anyway).

We've got the guy coming out on Wednesday to explain wtf they're actually going to do, so we'll see...

So, the assistant director of public works came out today, and he stands by his statement that curbs slow down traffic.

We got some more details though, they're adding 5ft or so to the roadway, then 4ft of grass, then 4ft sidewalks. At some point they're apparently going to plant a bunch of trees in the grass.

This seems to be their standard plan for roads, but I don't see how this is really going to slow traffic.

We got the actual traffic engineers phone number, so time to see what he has to say.

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

fishmech posted:

What exactly is meant by curbs here? Is the current setup that the lawns or sidewalks or whatever you have on the sides of the roads slope right onto level with the road surface?

Correct, it goes right from lawn to roadway with nothing in between.

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer
How many gas lines is it normal to hit when repaving a road? My town is up to two so far... The first one was within 10 ft of starting the road.

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

Happy Noodle Boy posted:

Uh are they full reconstruction? Because for a replace/resurfacing you should never be going more than a couple of inches. If they’re doing a full recon and the city did a poo poo job of establishing a hey bore your gas lines at least 40 inches or in case we need to replace the road when those utilities first went in then maybe? The utilities should still be getting marked and at the very least potholed a few times to verify depth. Unless they’re hitting service connections and even then you really should t unless the utilities did an absolute poo poo job of not going deep enough.

Our current reconstruction didn’t hit any lines but we had to get the gas company to come and redo a big chunk of their gas mine because it wasn’t deep enough and our contractor would have hit it

Full reconstruction. I talked to one of the gas company guys, apparently the contractor started digging up the road without getting the gas lines marked.

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer
So back to roads...

How cold is too cold to pave? I'm wondering if we'll see completion of our road, or if we're stuck with raised manholes until spring. I'm sure the plow drivers will love that.

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer
99pi did an article about breakaway sign posts: https://99percentinvisible.org/article/breakaway-hit-street-side-posts-designed-sever-strategically-impact/

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

Entropist posted:

An attempted bike lane?

On the Merrit? Not unless you have a death wish. Two narrow lanes of twisty highway traffic is not a good match for a bike lane.

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer
Soo, the town attempted to repave my road last summer. They (barely) managed to get in the base coat(?) of asphalt before it got too cold and they couldn't finish.

I say base coat because the road surface is about 2-3 inches below all the sewers. This led to their hilarious solution of putting a little ramp around all the sewers, and hoping that would last through the winter..

The road surface has turned to poo poo again, it's super bumpy and generally degrading again.

Is whatever they put down as a base not intended to be driven on for long periods of time? Am I doomed to living through another summer of the road being entirely torn up and replaced, or will they just mill the top lightly?

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

Qwijib0 posted:

I think he means the manholes are a couple inches proud of the roadbed at present

Yea, sorry I meant manholes.

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer
What requirements are there for fences ~10ft off the road? Someone nearby wants to build 24x24 columns for a fence along the road, which seems like a hazard.

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

Devor posted:

$300 if you want to be sure

Roadside Design Guide

But short answer is, depends on speed and traffic volumes. Send a street view of the road and the speed limit and we can guess

10 feet is ~probably~ fine

https://goo.gl/maps/YGdag4MmrRauWAvW8

Note the streetview is a few years old - they've already built the pillars that you can see in satellite view. It's a 45mph road.

I think the pillars are ~4ft tall, they're planning on doing some kind of solid fence between them.

The whole thing is super creepy from the ground - they're essentially building a compound in the middle of a residential area.

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

Devor posted:

I see like 24 feet from the edge of the travel lane (which is what we would measure) if the below image is what you're talking about

It's almost certainly fine.



Ah yea, that's the right place. It's weird, they kept talking about 10ft during the zoning meeting. Seemed scary to have giant pillars 10ft off the road there.

Here's a fun nearby thing: https://goo.gl/maps/4XN1bMap9xTAQsPN8

See that lightpost on the ground? At least 50% of the time that is down... the county puts it back up, and then someone takes it out within a few weeks. I don't know what it is about that ramp!

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

Devor posted:

Maybe they were discussing required minimum setbacks, or setbacks from the ROW (front property) line.

Also that light pole is "not" outside the clear zone (but it's almost certainly breakaway, and not an obstruction per the RDG). It should probably still be moved, though.

If they moved it, what would they do with the time they spend every month putting it back up?

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

RoastBeef posted:



New Jersey loves to build things that aren't not roundabouts.

Bonus: what if we put like five businesses in the middle of the circle?



NJ loves to put things in the middle of other things that shouldn't be.

Example: Route 22 in Somerville: https://goo.gl/maps/5KzcF791F1td5RLT9

Nice 3 lane divided highway, but oh wait there's a bunch of restaurants in the middle. Hope you like merging at 65 with no ramp, or not getting rear ended while turning in!

Nearby is this roundabout which honestly feels like it's too small to have two lanes.

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer
How effective is painting the speed limit on the road going to be in actually slowing people down?

My town's out in front of my house painting "25 MPH" on the road. They widened the road a few years ago and now people are speeding down it because you can skip 4 traffic lights if you do it.

I'm thinking this will maybe work for a week at best?

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

Happy Noodle Boy posted:

There’s no amount of signage and paint that’ll counter a road being widened in terms of slowing traffic down. Ok that’s not entirely true. Without knowing the road profile, you could maybe slow things down by making the lanes thinner and cluttering the ROW in such a way that people no longer feel they can speed through.

Haha, what lanes? They built it wide enough for 3 cars to be next to each other, but didn't actually put a divider down the middle.

Street parking is allowed on one side, but almost no one parks there because the town also requires you have a driveway and garage.

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer
Their masterpiece is now complete

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

Happy Noodle Boy posted:

Bro what is going on with what curb.

They spent a poo poo ton of money putting in belgian block curbs everywhere... they claimed so it's easier to repair later???

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

Hippie Hedgehog posted:

OK so for a Scandigoon, what would the expected material be? Concrete curb?

Concrete just doesn't work here due to snowplows. A couple of seasons and you'd have to re-do the whole curb. They'd get sliced like cheese.

I think stone looks more up-scale, too. I would imagine if you get cheap Chinese granite you'd probably save money just on the repairs you don't have to do when the paving project is over and all the construction vehicles have run all over the place.

The usual method here is poured concrete... it holds up pretty well, despite the snowplows and salt. I'm not sure the stone is really going to actually get repaired whenever it breaks.

Lobsterpillar posted:

Generally for every 10km/h reduction in speed limit you get a 4km/h change in average speeds. Halve that for mph.
Unless they have other changes or a speed camera downstream from it, there will be done change but not much and not noticeable to the layperson.

They expanded the road by about 5 ft, cut down all the large trees that used to be near the sides of the road, added sidewalks and curbs, and repaved fixing all the potholes. When asked about it, they swore that adding curbs was somehow going to slow people down.

Not 5 minutes after they left from painting this stuff a landscaping truck went speeding down the road. I really can't blame them, the sight lines are great and there's no sense that you should be going any slower.

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

Lobsterpillar posted:

Yeah certainly sounds like widening was a poorly thought through mistake. Honestly that's the sort of thing that cities should know is a mistake by now-all of those things are well known to lead to higher speeds. It'll be an expensive uphill battle to get speeds back down.

Update on this... town council claims:

* Everyone else is saying the striping is great and they love it
* Traffic calming "has a lot of beliefs and not all of them work"
* You can't solve speeding
* Striping the speed limit onto the road helps
* When they've issued tickets it's the people in the neighborhood that get caught

Basically every word out of their mouth is a lie in general, so I'm not surprised they're equally unaware of accepted traffic calming methods.

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

Hippie Hedgehog posted:

How would they even know this? Are the police sharing a dataset of all the tickets issued in a particular neighborhood to the council, which the council cross-references with residence data? I doubt they have time for that.
More likely, they have an anecdote to back this up, such as a police officer made this claim once and nobody feels like checking.

I mean, I don't really doubt it, because: On any street, traffic will consist of (visitors + residents + through traffic). In a residential neighborhood, through traffic will be close to 0. Residents will outnumber visitors, probably by a factor of 10 or more, just from the commuting traffic. (Someone back me up on this with actual data...)
And based on that alone, most speeders will be residents, even in the relative frequency of speeding in each group might be a bit lower for residents.

It doesn't really matter who is speeding though. That's the really stupid part of this statement. What matters is to calm traffic down, and traffic calming measures work equally on all categories of motorists.

You're right, they just don't know what they are doing and should be replaced by competent traffic engineers.

They obviously don't know - it's not like they're going to have these stats available seconds after I asked them the question on a live call.

They later called us up and said they didn't stripe the middle of the road because it's all a passing zone (news to me and I think everyone else driving down the street). If we get them to do a dotted stripe, is that going to help at all? I imagine it'll push people towards the actual sides of the road instead of straight down the middle?

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

Devor posted:

How wide is the street, from curb face to curb face? Parking on one or both sides? Post link to a google street view of a comparable street if you care to

33 ft wide - parking is only allowed on one side (although that's not really enforced, so there's an occasional car on the other side). Not a ton of people park on the street, as you're also required to have a driveway and garage.

This is a pretty typical example of what it looks like - https://goo.gl/maps/hxgLMu4J4xRq5D4k8

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

Devor posted:

How's the one-side parking restriction implemented? Signed no-parking? Local ordinance? Neighbors just agreed not to park on one side?

Just from looking at that street view, it's a very typical secondary/tertiary residential road. It's legal to park on either side - and when one side has a car parked, a double yellow down the middle does not leave room for cars to pass the parked cars.

On a striped road with parking being legal on both sides, you would have 8' minimum for parking, 10 or 11' lanes, and a double yellow. So 36' minimum for parking both sides with centerline striping. If you formally disallowed parking on one side, you could do 11'-10'-8', but on such a low volume road it would be unusual.

If the road is truly only one-side parking permitted, then the reason not to paint is because it costs money and there haven't been any accidents, and no one important enough is yelling in the ear of the guy in charge of that. If all the neighbors got together and put together a petition you might get them to put down some cheapo paint that will get faded in a couple years.

Signed no parking + an ordinance, but I've only ever seen it enforced once in the ~6 years it's been like this. I think we can get them to do a dotted yellow down the middle pretty easily, if that's going to make a difference (I think it would?)

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

Lobsterpillar posted:

I mean... What sort of difference do you think it'll make? What are you trying to achieve here?
What are the issues.
just speed?
Cyclist or pedestrian safety?
Rat running?
A centerline is just a delineation measure and will help by showing people where on the road to position their cars whole driving, which is only really going to result in benefits when that is specifically a problem (usually on much narrower roads)

On the parking matter, imo it's not a big deal if people park both sides of the road, unless the road is mean to be a significant thoroughfare. Depends on the surrounding network

Everyone (including school buses!) goes about 45 down the road. It's marked as 25.

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devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

The Ferret King posted:

Who does one call, in the US, to report traffic lights behaving badly? My protected left turn into my workplace no longer senses cars waiting to turn left. You just sit there until someone approaches from the cross street and forces the light to change. Then, it cycles to my protected left turn before opening both directions back up (so maybe it IS sensing me at some point, but it does fuckall about it until there's crossing traffic). But nothing makes that light change if you just sit at it. You just.... sit.

I complained at the county here and the next day I got an email from the guy they sent out saying he didn't see a problem but raised the detection camera anyway:



(I had gotten stuck in the left turn lane there for 6 cycles, despite there being a bunch of cars in front of me)

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