Ask me about being a Traffic Engineer!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Ask me about being a Traffic Engineer!

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

Replying to you first since it's an easy question. That's grooved pavement. Asphalt isn't all laid out at once; we put down the base course, then the leveling course, then the wearing course. Often, days go by before the next course gets laid. If you've ever made pottery before, you'll remember that wet clay doesn't stick to dry clay, and you have to score it first to get more friction. This works the same way. We score grooves in the first course of asphalt so the second one will bond with it.

unless there was construction and that's the result of taking off a layer of asphault off concrete berfore you repave it.
In CA, we just abandon that poo poo when we run out of money.

Have you ever done a speed survey? Have they every followed it?

Also, what the gently caress were they thinking with this?
http://maps.google.com/maps?client=...042229&t=h&z=15

If you can't tell, traffic from 62 westbound has to cross 2 lanes of 35w to get to 2 on the other side. (This whole thing is currently being torn up and rebuilt though)

In fact, Minneapolis had a whole bunch of these shared roadway interchanges (for example, move a few miles north on 35W and you get a similar disaster up at 94). They are all a disaster if you get more than 10 cars on the road.
http://maps.google.com/maps?client=...29&z=15&iwloc=A
(The second one I suspect was built that way you save space, but I don't think there was much around 35W and 100 when that was built 50 odd years ago)

nm fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Jul 28, 2009

# ¿ Jul 28, 2009 00:13

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# ¿ Apr 19, 2024 18:51

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Another question, so i stop editing I'll make a new one.
Why does public transit suck so bad in places that should have good public transit. I know about suburbs. But we're talking about cities like Sacramento that had extensive public transit networks in most of the city before they got torn out by GM in the 40s. They were (and are) sufficently dense.
Is it just money? Or is there more to it?

My neighbor is a traffic engineer, i should go yell at him.

# ¿ Jul 28, 2009 00:26

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

Answering this alone because it's important.

In our theories of design, there is one number that shows up again and again. In France, they call it the V15. Here, we call it the 85th percentile speed. This is the speed slower than which 85% of drivers travel. It's usually 5-10 mph above the average speed. (There are two ways to calculate mean speed, but that's a story for another time.)

This 85th %ile speed is supposed to be equal to another number, the elusive design speed. The design speed is the maximum safe speed for the worst design vehicle on dry pavement. For example, if a freeway has a design speed of 75 mph, then a turnpike double (huge tractor-trailer) could safely negotiate its curves at 75 mph on a good day. Most cars, obviously, could safely go much faster, even in adverse conditions.

And then we have the third important speed, the speed limit. This is ALSO theoretically equal to the 85th %ile speed and the design speed. Sounds simple enough, right?

Every road I have a project on will have a speed survey done. They generally show that the 85th %ile speed is pretty close to the design speed. This is the Northeast, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's a little faster; we don't like to waste time. I try to set the speed limit around that point.

Then Granny McGee and her 40 bingo buddies write an angry letter to the mayor, complaining that people are speeding and how unsafe the road is! Next thing I know, I'm putting up a "25 mph" sign on a road that I know can handle 40 with no problem.

Now lowering the speed limit sounds like it would be pretty safe, right? Welp, buddy, that's why I'm the traffic engineer and not you. Turns out, it's not so much the speed that makes accidents, but the speed differential! When Granny McGee's blustering along at 40 mph, trying to keep up with the rest of the cars, nobody's getting rear-ended. But once she slows down to 25 mph, and the guy behind her is trying to go 50, that's a dangerous situation.

What we see when we check speeds on almost any road, is that the 85th %ile speed is generally 10 mph faster than the speed limit. Does that mean that the MAJORITY is speeding? Probably! Does that mean the speed limit should be raised? Probably! Does that mean you can drive as fast as you think is safe? Well, I already answered that one in the OP. You've gotta follow the laws, no matter how dumb they are.

Thanks
I worked in the only city in the world that ever seemed to do this right.
This was a fairly large suburban city in the twin cities. We had fairly wide two lane streets through nominally residential neighborhoods (aprtaments far set back from the street). 30mph So the city got enough bitching about the 30 mph streets. They wnated 25mph.
They hired an engineer to do surveys on the streets. They came back as 35 mph. The city then made the 35mph. No bitching about safety, they just took it an ran with it.
Strangely enough, people still bitch and the same thing happens.
I had no issues conmvicting people of speeding there.

# ¿ Jul 28, 2009 01:11

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Speaking of the autobahn.
How many changes, if any would we need to make non-urban freeways unlimited or at least 100+ mph? (Though if you are in NE, perhaps too many).
I think it is hilarious that as cars (and tires) have gotten better that in places like NV have dropped speed limits.
Though MT had to drop its "reasonable and prudent" because some guy doing 100mph in trhe rain was able to successfully argue his ticket should be tossed. I hate that guy.

Davenport posted:

Following up on your post with the time-space diagrams, am I correct in assuming that none of those intersections have the traffic signal lights on a sensor? What is your opinion of the sensors? Where I live (Sacramento, fabled city of awful traffic engineering), there is a four mile stretch of road (Truxel, from I-80 to Elkhorn) that has about 2 dozen lights, and some days I will hit every drat one because one solitary vehicle on a cross street or opposing turn lane will trip the sensor and stop the flow of 30-50 cars over and over and over.

Ha, i live a few housed down from Sacramento's traffic engineer. he's new though, its not his fault.

# ¿ Jul 28, 2009 05:45

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

tell me about yellow light timing

(and the people who shorten them for money)

# ¿ Jul 30, 2009 03:15

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

Funny aside, it's technically illegal to run a yellow light in some places. I highly doubt it's enforced, though.

Its technically illegal to "run" a yellow in nearly every state if you can stop safely.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2009 03:47

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

I imagine that'd be hell to enforce, though. What one person considers safe deceleration might mean something else for another. Would it be worth it for a trooper to dock someone on a charge like that?

Anyway, time for bed. Give me some questions to think about at work tomorrow!

No, of course not.
Pretext for traffic stops though.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2009 06:11

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Meet the most dangerious interchange in Sacramento
http://maps.google.com/maps?client=...14&z=16&iwloc=A
Biz 80, US 50, and 99

Can you tell me where and why?

Also: Ring roads? Are they as awesome as I think?

nm fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Jul 30, 2009

# ¿ Jul 30, 2009 06:32

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

Looking at it from this level, that interchange certainly looks up to spec. It doesn't seem to have a technical issue, other than being too close to other interchanges and thus causing weaving, though it could be I'm just not zoomed in enough. Little problems like bad pavement, shoddy guardrails, or low-quality pavement markings and signing can really doom a whole stretch of highway.

The problem, or at leats one of the problems, as I theorize (in a very non-expert way) is the merges into 99 S (worth noting that under that first bridge is a bridge abutment, not a shoulder). At least that's where my parents were almost killed. But that interchange is always on top 10 lists and is perpertually covered in broken car parts.

# ¿ Jul 31, 2009 07:03

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

I design those, yes. They're generally 10 feet wide with two lanes, and the MUTCD has a special section dedicated just to them. Bike paths are super easy to make, since the speeds and loads are so low relative to what the tracks are designed for (trains).

Sweet, now I can bitch about more.

Bike paths that parallel roads with frequent crossings.
Do people not see how dangerious this poo poo is?

Here's one example that is by far not the worst
http://maps.google.com/maps?client=...002639&t=h&z=19

I also hate bicycle lanes. Who thought that was a better idea than a wider lane?

This is still a loving awesome thread, thanks!

# ¿ Aug 1, 2009 00:40

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

The issue there, if you're talking about the curvature, is the slope. On a freeway, you should keep the slope below 3 percent, but can knock it up to a few percent more if you put up some warning signs. Trucks still hate it, though. So, what can we do? Two obvious answers pop up: level the mountain, or go through it. I think the former is squarely out of the picture, so let's talk tunnels.

Look at Switzerland: tons of 4000-meter mountain peaks, and plenty of tunnels. In fact, all over Europe, you'll see tunnels. On my freeway job in France, we even put in tunnels in flat terrain under a forest to save a few trees. I'd need to check out the geotechnical situation, but barring a major fault, there's nothing impossible about ramming I-80 through a mountain.

The problem is that much of the traffic is often tryoing to reach areas that would be bypassed by such a tunnel.

# ¿ Aug 6, 2009 14:18

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

ilkhan posted:

I80 between auburn and reno (the sierra nevada stretch) is basically repaved every 2-3 years because of the snow and the volume of truck traveling it. The road is consistently horrible.

Truck traffic with chains.
It is rutting

# ¿ Aug 8, 2009 10:15

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

At the very least, it would make a great new venue for circle dances.

That's something to ask an officer. One of our most important policies in the TMC was that we wouldn't use our equipment to give people tickets. Even if we saw someone speeding 150 mph down the freeway, we wouldn't be able to do anything. There were a couple times when we notified the cops for safety reasons, like when two female skinheads pulled over into the shoulder and began alternately making out and beating the crap out of each other.

Police radars are a different thing altogether, and we don't have anything to do with them. I've read in various places that the signs actually are serious, but I can't see how it would be cost-effective to fly around a plane and give people tickets.

As i understand it, the signs are needed in some states (CA notibly due to anti-speed trap laws) to allow the use of radar/laser/timing.

Aircraft are used, but not that frequently (less frequently lately). Because of the uncertainty of thier meathods they tend to only go after the worst speeders. These are actually used for public safety, because no one makes money on this poo poo. They're used because they're better at getting hard to detect stuff (people with radar detectors for example). They also frequently target non-speeding behvaoir like tailgating or aggressive driving which, frankly, they're better suited for.

Winning an aircraft ticket for less than say 10-15mph over should be fairly easy.

Cichlidae posted:

Now that I know that, those signs will certainly be a deterrent for me! Here's another bit of speeding ticket trivia: in Germany, a radar detector isn't the last word. The measured speed has to be reduced by both the inaccuracy inherent in the detector, and the inaccuracy of your speedometer. All told, you could get a ticket for several kph slower than you were actually going. Don't press your luck, though, because you never know when your speedometer and the radar gun are both fast.

Fun fact, in germany, cars are required by law to have speedometers that won't read high for any wheel combination possible. This results in they reading much lower than standard. If anyone has a VW, find a cop friend and try it with thier radar gun or use a GPS device (not that accurate). You're likely doing 60mph when it shows you're doing 65.
Also, that is why everone is giving you the finger when you think you're doing 65 in the "fast" lane (don't call it that).

nm fucked around with this message at 11:01 on Aug 19, 2009

# ¿ Aug 19, 2009 10:56

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

SlapActionJackson posted:

And this shows the disconnect between the law and the underlying process. Almost all states now have per se speed limit laws. If the sign says 55, then it is per se unsafe and unreasonable to travel down that road at 56 according to the law. But you've set that limit based on the least able user - the majority can safely go faster, and in ideal conditions, they may be able to go much faster. The discrepancy may be small or inoffensive on low speed urban streets, but not so on many freeways, where the speed limit may be under posted by 20 or 30 MPH from a competent user's perspective.

No, most states don't have this. Most states make it a standard strict liablity crime to do over XX mph.

Cichlidae posted:

There's the cost, they'd have to be dug up and replaced with each resurfacing, and any recessed areas tend to get filled with sand very quickly. They also tend to turn into puddles, hampering their reflection and causing pavement deterioration. It'd be possible to make the entire dome flush with the surface, but then it would just be a circle, and why not just use stripes if you're going through all that trouble?

Actually, CA uses both. The reflective domes, even when flooded, are far more visible than just stripes, in the rain at night.
They're the greatest thing on earth and as far as I can tell really improve safety.

Ok, so I'm currently in Canberra. After driving here all I can say is what the gently caress?
http://maps.google.com/maps?client=...83&z=12&iwloc=A

There's minimal traffic. Which is good because this is just about the worst place to walk ever.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2009 01:48

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

Oh well, at least there are a lot of parks! vv

See, that isn't even a good thing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Canberra_bushfires

# ¿ Aug 31, 2009 02:30

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Choadmaster posted:

I've only seen two or three in my entire life. I just happen to live near one.

They did this all the time in Tasmania.
Took me like 3 days to figure out the default speed limit was 100. (Every other airport in Australia has the default limits posted for this reason. But not Launceston, that would be too easy).

# ¿ Sep 7, 2009 07:59

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

MASS TRANSIT

Well, at least Boston has subways, right? Four wonderful lines. Except they suck. They suck SO HARD. A city Boston's size deserves at least a few dozen lines, but it's stuck with four. It HAD more, but guess what? They were abandoned. Good show! What's worse? All four lines are incompatible. They each have completely different trains and you can't swap them around. Worse yet? MBTA decided to replace its perfectly functional fleet with new custom-built cars. Super expensive! Guess what? They have a tendency to derail.

They made one good decision, at least. They extended rail down along the proposed I-95 corridor when it was canceled, opening service that's soon to be extended to T.F. Green Airport in Warwick, RI. But that doesn't satisfy me, because I once ended up waiting 45 minutes for a midday train at Quincy Adams and it made me late for Blue Man Group. Do you know what happens when you're late to Blue Man Group?

There are plenty of other small problems, like the lack of circumferential routes, the branches on the Green Line, the multiplicity of stops at universities, lack of direct access to the airport, and dozens more, but that's really outside the scope of this post.

I'm sure some of you have plenty to add; I stay away from Boston as best I can, so I only pick up little bits here and there. Some of you poor souls have to deal with it all day, every day.

Edit: Some minor things fixed.

Shall we walk or do we have time to take the T?

# ¿ Sep 9, 2009 02:30

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

One tiny complaint about that, though, is that Paris' M�tro doesn't run all night long. There are a couple hours where you'd need to take the night bus.

London too.
I swear public transportation networks are trying to support DWIs.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2009 09:53

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

We touched on this in my ITS class. One interesting feature is that, with the addition of electronic signs with countdowns until the next bus/train/walk cycle, the perception of time is much more leisurely. Most networks I saw in Europe had indications of the next train or two, and I think Brussels' system showed you their locations as well as the time to arrival.

They have these in Auckland.
They're great until you're been at a bus stop for 5+ minutes with the time arriving being "now".
They're still great though.

Speaking of crossing signals, the ones in ANZAC seem to have a don't walk tone as well, which would be pretty useful

nm fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Sep 16, 2009

# ¿ Sep 16, 2009 07:05

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

Huh, no idea. I've never seen that before. Pit stop? It could be a bus stop, but there's no way for pedestrians to cross the other ramp. I can't see much of a need for a divided loop...

I think that clover has a merge light (which doesn't seem like a great idea, but they do it in MSP). I think that's a carpool/bus bypass.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2009 04:34

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

I'm all for cutting HOV/bus travel times, but putting a signal on a sharp curve like that, with the potential to cause cars to back up onto the freeway, doesn't seem like a good idea.

Welcome to Minnesota

# ¿ Sep 29, 2009 03:52

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

This is a pretty new change, one that not even google maps has it up.
So I hacked up google maps

basically, they converted a one way system into two one way streets. Note that this is an extremely high volume street. Basically, we have a 4 lane 30 mph raod that used to go into a 2 lane one way (south) at 30 mph and a 3 lane one way at 35 mph (north -- 21st street). Now both are 2 lane two way streets at 25 mph. That would be annoying enough, except we got this intersection.

Is it just be or does this intersection actually suck?

What it used to be: http://maps.google.com/maps?client=...002639&t=h&z=19

And, why yes, that rail line is pretty active.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2009 02:57

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

What would be tricky is determining prices for each region and type of road. It would be ideal to have rates that change to reflect congestion in real-time, but the legality of changing the price without notifying the driver is a bit dubious. Perhaps there could be an integrated display in the car showing the going rate, much as we have now for fuel mileage. Of course, if you're on the motorway, hit a jam, and the price jumps from 10 pence to 10 quid/hour, and it takes 20 minutes to get off the next exit, could you contest the charges?

They have a much smaller scale version of this in Minneapolis with the reversible lanes.
You get charged a posted price on entry. It goes up and down with traffic volume and is designed to keep traffic above 50mph. It appears to work pretty well, but then, it is only like 8 miles.

The congestion charge actually works fairly well (I used to live there, though carless), but I'd only want it in cities with good public transit (like London). I'm not sure I agree with the free/reduced cost entry for hybrids and stuff. It defeats the whole purpose of the congestion charge, which is to reduce congestion. A prius takes up as much space as a focus on the street. I'd rather see a discount for cars with more than 50% of seats filled.

# ¿ Oct 7, 2009 22:23

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

our bridges are falling apart from lack of maintenance funds.

This hasn't stopped anything in Minneapolis

# ¿ Oct 7, 2009 22:35

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

I'm not traffic engineer, but couldn't you make that turn lane a turn or straight lane and extend that merge lane on the other side to half the block?

# ¿ Oct 23, 2009 22:03

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

Yes, that's less than 1,000 feet of 2-lane section on an on-ramp. What's the point?

When you have 10lbs/hp, you could pass on that

# ¿ Oct 24, 2009 23:11

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

norton I posted:

Is this in San Mateo, CA? There's one of these next to the high school I went to, and I have no idea what the planner was thinking.

It was extra fun when packed with high school kids that don't know how to drive at 3:30 pm.

Caltrans loved these things at some point
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&c...005279&t=h&z=18

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&c...005279&t=k&z=18

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&c...5,0.002639&z=19
(Has been fixed, but google hasn't updated)

http://maps.google.com/maps?client=...005279&t=h&z=18
(This one has been fixed though)

All of these were pretty low volume 10-20 years ago. Most aren't anymore.

nm fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Oct 25, 2009

# ¿ Oct 25, 2009 00:12

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

BklynBruzer posted:

I think New Yorkers are such good drivers because we're right next to New Jersey, so we know what not to do.

No, you think you're good drivers because you have NJ, CT, and MA right next door, and they suck even more.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2009 02:37

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

TaxingSquares posted:

So how legitimate is the idea that light rail causes blight? How important is parking to small main-street-style businesses like the ones along University? I read somewhere that foot traffic is more important than car traffic for businesses. Is it true that a light rail system would generate more pedestrian traffic? Does light rail make sense in a city this size? Is my 20-25 minute commute by bus slower than average?

Its because that bookstore is owned by crazy people. In any event, their real problem is likely that they'll likely get rid of a lane each way on university which they think will cut down on traffic. That said it isn't like hordes of people go to university now.
LR has been great for the Hiawatha corridor.
LR makes absolute sense here. TC has two cores which need some sort of real connection (plus a connection from the Hiawatha line to St. Paul). When I lived in downtown Minneapolis and worked in St. Paul, I had a choice of a 15 minute drive or a 50-60 minute bus ride. I drove.
Some sort of real mass transit is definitely needed in urban Minneapolis and St. Paul. It is dense enough and has a large population. They need a line down lake street and Hennepin as well.

nm fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Oct 26, 2009

# ¿ Oct 26, 2009 06:14

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

As to parking, that is a pretty major thing. When the Department does property takes, a single parking spot can sell for over a hundred thousand dollars. Removing most of the on-street parking will have an impact on business, though it will likely be offset by the increase in pedestrian traffic. A priori, all shoppers are pedestrians, except when there's a drive-through. I've seen plenty of places where on-street parking isn't present, but pedestrian traffic is more than sufficient to keep business strong. Orl�ans is a great example of this, with a similar tram line, and it's a much smaller city.

The good news is that there isn't exactly a lack of free street parking in the area (perhaps because your car's getting broken into).

quote:

Then we have the issue of traffic. Projections show the tram carrying nearly 50,000 people a day, which is as much as two full lanes of cars. So long as the predictions hold true, the tram should increase capacity, not decrease it. This has the side benefit of speeding up normal car trips, as well.

The cool thing is that no one uses uni as a throughfair anyhow because 94 is just south.
8 minute trip will never happen as you mentioned, but it will be a hell of a lot faster than buses on uni which get stuck in traffic and at lights. I'm assuming LR will get light priority.
The Hiawatha line is faster as it is on its own right of way and University won't get that. We can't have an abandoned railway next to every road.
These people (said bookstore) are just lunatics.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2009 03:02

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Hey have you said anything about lane markings?

# ¿ Nov 7, 2009 04:37

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

We've had some lane marking discussions, yeah. What would you like to know/talk about?

I want to know more about the shiny ones and the ones that make noise and why everyone doesn't use them. Is it just cost, or is there a durability concern?

Also, markings in relation to speed.

Finally, a long time ago you mentioned the problem with the interchange I linked was mostly markings and I just want to know the difference between good and bad. is it just age or is there more?

nm fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Nov 9, 2009

# ¿ Nov 9, 2009 02:57

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

I'm sure that it'll only take one collapse to change peoples' minds, but, really, why should we have to wait for that?

You wish.
Minnesota still hasn't replaced the US52 bridge which was in far worse shape than 35W. This bridge is notable for nearly collapsing in 1975, saved by a temporary patch that has never been replaced.
They claim replacement in 2011, but I'll believe it when I see it.

# ¿ Nov 17, 2009 19:19

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

And for anyone who thinks only 2200/2500 cars can fit in one lane per hour, check out this awesome occurrence that I found.

Yes, that's 5887 cars in two lanes in one hour, or nearly 3000 per lane! Amazing!

As to what would increase volumes to nearly three times their normal level on a Saturday morning, I really have no idea. Motorcycle rally?

Yeah, I'm sorry, I just sat at the sensor for an hour, reversing and then going over the sensor forward.

# ¿ Nov 19, 2009 20:32

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

IOwnCalculus posted:

Another question for Cichlidae. Why on earth would anyone build a freeway without an HOV lane, only to start the process of putting one in a relatively short time later?

Biggest offender to me is Loop 101, especially the section that runs from Loop 202 to Loop 202 (yes, really, the 101 and 202 intersect twice). It took them over a decade to build the drat road, and five years later they started putting in the HOV lane.

Now that it's all done, it's finally the freeway it should have been in the first place, and can actually get you from A to B during rush hour.

I think the stimulus is giving a ton of money for HOV lanes, but i don't know.

# ¿ Jan 12, 2010 05:44

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Cichlidae posted:

Yep, that's it. Spur three-digit interstates are made by appending an odd number to their parent interstate number, in this case, 7 + 05. Bypasses and loops, on the other hand, begin with an even number. California (I-80) and New York (I-90) each have or had a "full set" of three-digit interstates, that is, I-190 through I-990 in New York's case. Which compass direction a three-digit interstate goes has very little to do with its number.

I-238 in California should have been I-X80, but since all the X80s were taken, it was assigned a brand new number. There's no I-38.

Bypasses and business routes are signed alternates to a route. Sometimes a bypass is actually an interstate with its own designation, but the state DOTs don't put up signs for it because it would get rather confusing.

What gets really funny is when you start looking at direction and exit numbering on circumferential routes, but that's a story for another time!

Fun fact, California also has a secret interstate, I-305.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2010 08:08

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Hye you got any advice to fix this fuckup (12th ave and 99):
http://maps.google.com/maps?client=...021114&t=k&z=16

This interchange is basically completely useless between the hours of 7-9am and 4-6pm.

So what we have is this:
High traffic coming from neighborhoods on both sides all heading north on 99( the freeway). There is also heavy traffic at the same times going in reverse. However, almost no traffic is coming from or wants to go south.
There is virtually no traffic going between the neighborhoods on either side of the freeway.
Fairly heavy truck traffic from freeway going east on 12th to the Bakery next to the freeway.
Traffic from the west bill backup to the bridge over the railway at 3 or 4 PM and will backup to freeport ave later.
Traffic will back up on 99 South all the way to the interchange with biz-80/50
Intersections blocked and locked.
There is a ramp semaphore at the end of the ramp from 12th ave on to 99N.
They're going to add 250,000sq feet of retail and 500 units of residential in that brownfield to the west next to the railway.
Alternative N/S routes freeport and franklin are also at capacity and land value around them is high enough nothing will ever get done.
No one will cry if you take at least some of the lovely strip mall to the west, however, the Mormon temple north of it is probably off limits. Noise would be a concern.
Similarly, you could probably take a lot or two to from the northeast. That neighborhood sucks.

The either areas is currently rated an "F" for traffic volume and the developer isn't being forced to do anything because the development won't lower the rating (because the scale doesn't go beyond F).

Also, we're loving broke.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2010 08:20

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

I like the roundabout idea and will forward it to the city.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2010 01:39

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

jermsz posted:

fix Auckland please

Auckland is pretty horrible. Traffic sucks too.

the problem is that Auckland is basically the LA of New Zealand (low density with a high population -- for new zealand)

# ¿ Oct 21, 2010 06:13

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# ¿ Apr 19, 2024 18:51

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Dutch Engineer posted:

Please don't do this This would be a terrible solution even over here in Roundabout Country, let alone in the US, where roundabouts are apparently still considered to be the spawn of the devil himself. No offense.

The seperate bike paths are there for good reasons. Keeping the poor and vunerable bicyclists as far away as possible from large moving metal objects. Ensuring the flow of car traffic by not having slow bicyclists in their way. It also prevents collisions between bicyclists and cars when cars move out of the roundabout circle.

I don't know that I agree with this.
From the studies I've seen, most car/bicycle collisions occur in intersections when the bicycle is riding on something other than a street (sidewalk/bike path) followed by the "right hook" (essentially being merged into or being cut in front of when riding in the shoulder).
The problem with the dutch solution is that it creates a whole lot of the first situation. Lots of points where a bike can get hit unless:
1. Drivers are paying attention, looking for non-cars (possible in the Netherlands, not in the US).
2. Bicycles or cars have a stop sign/light, slowing everything down.

Occupying the full lane of a round-about is going to be the safest way around it in my opinion unless there is a bypass that avoids crossing a bunch of roads.

Too many engineers try to create bike paths everywhere and seem to make paths less safe than riding on the road. If there are a bunch of crossings with roads, it can cause a lot of issues.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2010 08:05

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