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Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Free Market Gravy posted:

His entire draw in ECW was that he was the little, goofy scrawny guy who could slay the giants. What goofy, scrawny guy in the WWE has ever been successful or gotten a lot of screen time, even as a comedy character? Vince loves his giants and would never let them be slayed, so that left Spike to get over as a serious wrestler.

I like to image Vince having some sort of seizure upon being shown tapes of Spike winning in squash matches over all the giants in ECW. Like Vince's mind just could not comprehend what he was watching.

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George Kaplan
Mar 12, 2006



I liked Spike & Big Show's tag team reign. I thought he got a fair shot in the WWE, given that he was always a bit of a niche character.

Captain Magic
Apr 3, 2005

Yes, we have feathers--but the muscles of men.

Jagtpanther posted:

Did anything come of WWE's alleged interest in bringing back Sycho Sid for one more run?

Another broken piece of Sid's body (this time, it was his heart).

GOP
May 19, 2007

by Ozmaugh


KungFu Grip posted:

That Tai Pei Death Match Ian and Axel had was pretty terrible and hard to watch on multiple levels.

Yes the only garbage wrestling ECW produced that was as bad as CZW or IWA included the owner of IWA and his brother.

Also, New Jack was CZW before CZW was cool. But he was charismatic and crazy enough to be talentless.

The Sabu vs Terry Funk match was epic in its gut churning violence... But it was a decent match, seeing as it was Terry loving Funk and Sabu, not Sexxy Eddy vs Deranged. The same goes for the Cactus Jack vs Terry Funk flaming branding iron incident. Even though the spectacle pushed the limits of acceptability, there was a bit more going on than just "Watch fat guy get set on fire... huh huh huh cool."

GOP fucked around with this message at Aug 4, 2009 around 01:32

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Pie The Grand posted:

Another broken piece of Sid's body (this time, it was his heart).
I don't know if these are connected, but the interest seemed to stop right around the time he was a guest on the Law and got drunk as hell.

CombineThresher
Apr 10, 2006

GIT R DONNE


GOP posted:

Also, New Jack was CZW before CZW was cool. But he was charismatic and crazy enough to be talentless.

More to the point, he had a BADASS entrance, an actual character (crazy militant black thug), and wasn't put in a position to carry the company at any point. He was generally used as an attraction, which is a good way to book guys like him instead of the way Ian or Zandig run things.

WeaselWeaz
Apr 11, 2004

Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Biscuits and Gravy.

Captain Strange posted:

I liked Spike & Big Show's tag team reign. I thought he got a fair shot in the WWE, given that he was always a bit of a niche character.

People forget that the Romeo and Juliet angle with the Dudleys and Hollys was both entertaining and over.

GOP posted:

The same goes for the Cactus Jack vs Terry Funk flaming branding iron incident. Even though the spectacle pushed the limits of acceptability, there was a bit more going on than just "Watch fat guy get set on fire... huh huh huh cool."

It's worth adressing the question of "Why is hardcore okay for Cactus Jack and Terry Funk, but when it's CZW or IWA it's garbage wrestling?" The difference is promos and psychology. Funk was arguably one of the top 10 wrestlers of the past thirty years. He didn't have to do hardcore to have an entertaining match, but he knew how to use it in a way that made sense. Cactus was a big fat guy with average athletic ability. Yet, his promo ability and charisma made him one of the biggest stars of the Attitude era. In the ring, he made up for his althletic flaws with great psychology. Some could argue he used big bumps and hardcore as a crutch, and there's some truth to that. However, his had great psychology and knew how to use those spots for maximum effect and could sell well.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Anybody remotely interesting is mad in some way or another.


WeaselWeaz posted:

It's worth adressing the question of "Why is hardcore okay for Cactus Jack and Terry Funk, but when it's CZW or IWA it's garbage wrestling?" The difference is promos and psychology. Funk was arguably one of the top 10 wrestlers of the past thirty years. He didn't have to do hardcore to have an entertaining match, but he knew how to use it in a way that made sense. Cactus was a big fat guy with average athletic ability. Yet, his promo ability and charisma made him one of the biggest stars of the Attitude era. In the ring, he made up for his althletic flaws with great psychology. Some could argue he used big bumps and hardcore as a crutch, and there's some truth to that. However, his had great psychology and knew how to use those spots for maximum effect and could sell well.

Exactly, it's like those people who think that the Hell in a Cell match between Foley/Taker was great because of the spots off the roof, and can't understand why people don't consider it a classic when they leap into a dumper full of weedwhackers off of a roof swarming with crocodiles. The spots mean something because of our familiarity with the characters, the build to the match, and the fact that Foley got BACK UP afterwards with a crazy smile on his face because his character was loving insane and wanted to keep fighting.... and Taker's reaction was,"gently caress it okay let's fight some more!"

Ice To Meet You
Mar 4, 2007



Fun Shoe

Jerusalem posted:

the fact that Foley got BACK UP afterwards with a crazy smile on his face because his character was loving insane and wanted to keep fighting.... and Taker's reaction was,"gently caress it okay let's fight some more!"

But this also happens in CZW matches

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Anybody remotely interesting is mad in some way or another.


Chilly McFreeze posted:

But this also happens in CZW matches

I know, but yeah, nobody knows anything about the character of CZW wrestlers, who they are, or why they should care* - it's the equivalent of the villainous henchmen in disney live action kids films who slip and land on their backs and then bowling balls land on their heads. It's not funny and nobody cares because no reason has been provided to.

* The answer is we shouldn't.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at Aug 4, 2009 around 04:54

Rusty Shackelford
Feb 7, 2005


Jerusalem posted:

Exactly, it's like those people who think that the Hell in a Cell match between Foley/Taker was great because of the spots off the roof, and can't understand why people don't consider it a classic when they leap into a dumper full of weedwhackers off of a roof swarming with crocodiles. The spots mean something because of our familiarity with the characters, the build to the match, and the fact that Foley got BACK UP afterwards with a crazy smile on his face because his character was loving insane and wanted to keep fighting.... and Taker's reaction was,"gently caress it okay let's fight some more!"

CZW matches are like Tom & Jerry cartoons. If you watch a whole morning of cartoons and you see one Tom & Jerry, it is definitely different and crazy. If you watch a Tom & Jerry marathon, the violence loses all meaning and impact. Plus, like Tom & Jerry, the wrestlers just do crazy spot after crazy spot without any transitions or story.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Anybody remotely interesting is mad in some way or another.


I would actually spend money to get hold of some Tom and Jerry cartoons, however, so there's a large difference.

Xenoletum
Jul 7, 2009

{Internal Release}{inside}{Miqo'te}{rear}.
{Can I have it?}


Jerusalem posted:

I would actually spend money to get hold of some Tom and Jerry cartoons, however, so there's a large difference.

Are we comparing my childhood to a trashy wrestling promotion that has people doing horrible things to themselves for ~100 an appearance? Really?

I was actually browsing through FYE's wrestling selection, came across some CZW dvds, and thought to myself who would actually buy one of these.

As I went to put it back down, there was a ROH DVD behind it. I pulled that one to the front and shoved the CZW one as far back as I could. No one should ever see CZW. I feel horrible that Mickey Rourke or whichever stuntman they used for him had to go through that shoot with Necro for the movie.

Nut Bunnies
May 24, 2005



Fun Shoe

It's also worth mentioning that a deathmatch can actually be wrestled with psychology and in a really smart way. Japan's had this covered for years, and in fact the first match that opened my eyes to this was a women's exploding barbed wire match where they *GASP* actually TEASED the big spots for 15 minutes!

Wazzu
Feb 28, 2008

Are you sure I'm winning the Rumble? That does'nt seem right.....

Xenoletum posted:

Are we comparing my childhood to a trashy wrestling promotion that has people doing horrible things to themselves for ~100 an appearance? Really?

I was actually browsing through FYE's wrestling selection, came across some CZW dvds, and thought to myself who would actually buy one of these.

As I went to put it back down, there was a ROH DVD behind it. I pulled that one to the front and shoved the CZW one as far back as I could. No one should ever see CZW. I feel horrible that Mickey Rourke or whichever stuntman they used for him had to go through that shoot with Necro for the movie.

However, CZW was allegedly decent-good in 2005, due to a different (competent) booker, a WAAAY better talent pool (first outside exposure of IWS, PWG guys) and probably less deathmatches.

tzirean
May 1, 2007



Jerusalem posted:

Exactly, it's like those people who think that the Hell in a Cell match between Foley/Taker was great because of the spots off the roof, and can't understand why people don't consider it a classic when they leap into a dumper full of weedwhackers off of a roof swarming with crocodiles. The spots mean something because of our familiarity with the characters, the build to the match, and the fact that Foley got BACK UP afterwards with a crazy smile on his face because his character was loving insane and wanted to keep fighting.... and Taker's reaction was,"gently caress it okay let's fight some more!"

It's also telling that if you walk up to anybody involved in the Mankind/Undertaker Hell in a Cell, Mick and 'Taker included, and start raving about the match being great, they'll look at you like you're a mental patient and maybe even start backing away slowly. The spectacle was incredible, sure, but the match, such as it was, sucked a dick. And the spectacle, as you point out, is not reproducible; it was a result of one planned spot, then a whole lot of unplanned poo poo and Mick Foley being, frankly, too loving stupid and concussed to know when he needed to stop.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA

tzirean posted:

It's also telling that if you walk up to anybody involved in the Mankind/Undertaker Hell in a Cell, Mick and 'Taker included, and start raving about the match being great, they'll look at you like you're a mental patient and maybe even start backing away slowly. The spectacle was incredible, sure, but the match, such as it was, sucked a dick. And the spectacle, as you point out, is not reproducible; it was a result of one planned spot, then a whole lot of unplanned poo poo and Mick Foley being, frankly, too loving stupid and concussed to know when he needed to stop.

I imagine if you went up to Undertaker and said that he would say "Of course, I won" then vanish in a cloud of smoke.

GOP
May 19, 2007

by Ozmaugh


Wazzu posted:

However, CZW was allegedly decent-good in 2005, due to a different (competent) booker, a WAAAY better talent pool (first outside exposure of IWS, PWG guys) and probably less deathmatches.

Kingston vs Hero was a awesome. Team Masturbation, Kings of Wrestling, BlKOUT, Super Dragon... Decent stuff.

GOP fucked around with this message at Aug 4, 2009 around 08:20

DEAR RICHARD
Feb 5, 2009

IT'S TIME FOR MY TOOLS


I loved CZW in 2005 when they feuded with ROH leading up to Death Before Dishonor 4. Of course, the only exposure I had of CZW was through ROH. Nowadays, I get all my CZW poo poo from Botchamania videos.

WeaselWeaz
Apr 11, 2004

Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Biscuits and Gravy.

Batmanuel posted:

I loved CZW in 2005 when they feuded with ROH leading up to Death Before Dishonor 4.

John Danzig didn't, he through the booker down the stairs and fired him.

tzirean posted:

The spectacle was incredible, sure, but the match, such as it was, sucked a dick. And the spectacle, as you point out, is not reproducible; it was a result of one planned spot, then a whole lot of unplanned poo poo and Mick Foley being, frankly, too loving stupid and concussed to know when he needed to stop.

Actually, Jim Ross deserves a lot of credit too. In the hands of any other announcer it would have come off as a trainwreck from the big spot on. A spot which was only happened because Foley was deathly afraid of a bad match figured if he was thrown off the cage that anything after would probably be fine. Nobody, including Vince and Taker, was happy it was done.

Jerusalem posted:

the fact that Foley got BACK UP afterwards with a crazy smile on his face because his character was loving insane and wanted to keep fighting.... and Taker's reaction was,"gently caress it okay let's fight some more!"

JR got that over. Foley wasn't smiling, he was trying to show off a missing tooth and a hole in his lip. JR made it look less stupid, and more bad-rear end.

DEAR RICHARD
Feb 5, 2009

IT'S TIME FOR MY TOOLS


What if Michael Cole and Tazz called the Hell in the Cell match?

Answer:

TL
Jan 16, 2006

Yeah, it is. Isn't it?

Bowties are cool.

Batmanuel posted:

What if Michael Cole and Tazz called the Hell in the Cell match?

Answer:

Honestly, I sometimes wonder what the Attitude Era would have sounded like if Gorilla and Jesse were still calling it. When Jesse came out to do PBP for that Raw before Summerslam 99 I got goosebumps from being so excited to hear him behind the mic.

CombineThresher
Apr 10, 2006

GIT R DONNE


TL posted:

Honestly, I sometimes wonder what the Attitude Era would have sounded like if Gorilla and Jesse were still calling it. When Jesse came out to do PBP for that Raw before Summerslam 99 I got goosebumps from being so excited to hear him behind the mic.

Gorilla was/is really underrated as a play-by-play guy. I mean yes Gordon Solie was awesome, but Gorilla was one of the voices of my youth and he had chemistry with a lot of people; Jesse, Heenan, Mean Gene, even dipshits like Lord Alfred sounded good next to him.

tzirean
May 1, 2007



WeaselWeaz posted:

Actually, Jim Ross deserves a lot of credit too. In the hands of any other announcer it would have come off as a trainwreck from the big spot on. A spot which was only happened because Foley was deathly afraid of a bad match figured if he was thrown off the cage that anything after would probably be fine. Nobody, including Vince and Taker, was happy it was done.

I count Ross' reactions in the "whole lot of unplanned poo poo" collection, though I did him a disservice by not mentioning him.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Anybody remotely interesting is mad in some way or another.


Gorilla was great for reacting to people and having his color guys bounce lines off of him. He tended to repeat the "spontaneous" lines over and over again over the years, but he had a great voice and his,"Oh will you stop!" was always fun to hear.

its me glenda
Oct 20, 2006

"hello!"


Jerusalem posted:

Gorilla was great for reacting to people and having his color guys bounce lines off of him. He tended to repeat the "spontaneous" lines over and over again over the years, but he had a great voice and his,"Oh will you stop!" was always fun to hear.

loved his constant misuse of the word literally.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

grody but still def posted:

loved his constant misuse of the word literally.
Every wrestling announcer in history does this and it drives me nuts. No, Mr. Schiavone. No. Nobody is actually hanging from the loving rafters.

It wouldn't drive me so nuts if it wasn't the EXACT OPPOSITE of what they meant.

Supreme Allah
Oct 6, 2004

I choose to expose myself

WeaselWeaz posted:

JR got that over. Foley wasn't smiling, he was trying to show off a missing tooth and a hole in his lip. JR made it look less stupid, and more bad-rear end.

He really did look like he was smiling though, so it's not like JR was thinking fast on his feet and making these calculated statements- he was just freaking out and happened to have a microphone near his mouth. It was undeniably awesome though

CombineThresher
Apr 10, 2006

GIT R DONNE


Jerusalem posted:

Gorilla was great for reacting to people and having his color guys bounce lines off of him. He tended to repeat the "spontaneous" lines over and over again over the years, but he had a great voice and his,"Oh will you stop!" was always fun to hear.

I enjoyed how no one could execute an abdominal stretch to his liking.

Any reason why he gets ignored by management these days?

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA

LividLiquid posted:

Every wrestling announcer in history does this and it drives me nuts. No, Mr. Schiavone. No. Nobody is actually hanging from the loving rafters.

It wouldn't drive me so nuts if it wasn't the EXACT OPPOSITE of what they meant.

Sting was hanging from the rafters every week on Nitro.

Rusty Shackelford
Feb 7, 2005


CombineThresher posted:

I enjoyed how no one could execute an abdominal stretch to his liking.

Any reason why he gets ignored by management these days?

Because he's been dead for 10 years?

CombineThresher
Apr 10, 2006

GIT R DONNE


Rusty Shackelford posted:

Because he's been dead for 10 years?

So? Gordon Solie never worked for Vince at all, and he gets mentioned all the time.

freeranger
Jan 7, 2006

I'm going over?

I've been watching the clips that Ken Anderson (Kennedy) has been posting onto youtube, and been wondering if they would have been suitable to a degree for when he was injured and still working for WWE. I've been getting a good chuckle out of them, but wonder if they would have been received as well if they were broadcast during a raw or something. Even if he was doing it when he wasn't injured. It doesn't seem to far out of character for him when he was with the WWE.

I realize that the WWE would most likely not air them at all, but if they were do you think they would have helped his character more than his terrible promo's he was doing to promote his movie Behind Enemy Lines 3 or whatever it was?

It should be noted that I was/am a Kennedy fan so perhaps I have a somewhat biased view of it.

For reference, here is his most recent one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfBvLaSvhFw

FishBulb
Mar 29, 2003

Marge, I'd like to be alone with the sandwich for a moment.

Are you going to eat it?

...yes...


LividLiquid posted:

Every wrestling announcer in history does this and it drives me nuts. No, Mr. Schiavone. No. Nobody is actually hanging from the loving rafters.

It wouldn't drive me so nuts if it wasn't the EXACT OPPOSITE of what they meant.

Its not like this is limited to wrestling announcers, pretty much 80% of the population does this.

jeffersonlives
Jul 22, 2007

"Mathewson pitched against Cincinnati yesterday. Another way of putting it is that Cincinnati lost a game of baseball."


grody but still def posted:

loved his constant misuse of the word literally.

There's an awesome scene from How I Met Your Mother involving this same misusage by Robin, unfortunately it's not on Youtube or Hulu though.

WeaselWeaz
Apr 11, 2004

Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Biscuits and Gravy.

grody but still def posted:

loved his constant misuse of the word literally.

I still think his best thing was his explainations of holds on the human anatomy, with medical terminology. Especially when Heenan would have no clue what he was talking about.

DEAR RICHARD
Feb 5, 2009

IT'S TIME FOR MY TOOLS


JR taught me what a sternum was, so he is the greatest.

The Berzerker
Feb 24, 2006

treat me like a dog


WeaselWeaz posted:

I still think his best thing was his explainations of holds on the human anatomy, with medical terminology. Especially when Heenan would have no clue what he was talking about.

LACTIC ACID BUILDUP

TL
Jan 16, 2006

Yeah, it is. Isn't it?

Bowties are cool.

WeaselWeaz posted:

I still think his best thing was his explainations of holds on the human anatomy, with medical terminology. Especially when Heenan would have no clue what he was talking about.

External occipital protuberance!

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nyratk1
Jul 24, 2006

by Tiny Fistpump


TL posted:

External occipital protuberance!

Gorilla Monsoon: He hit him in the external protuberance area!
Bobby Heenan: Why do you always use words no one understands?
Gorilla Monsoon: It's fun. You should try it.
*jobber gets kicked in the stomach*
Bobby Heenan: He kicked him in the uterus!
Gorilla Monsoon: Would you stop it!

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