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The crowd turned Orton months before they were planning on turning him because Foley and Benoit did such a nice job showcasing Orton. WWE decided to go with it (good) but tried to book an eight month long feud with Triple H before having Orton finally get his big decisive win at Mania (so, so not good). Orton's popularity tanked when he started doing jobs to Triple H to build that feud, and by the time that Mania came around Orton had already been forced to turn back heel. Meanwhile, the crowd got super-behind Batista that fall when they did a quick little Evolution dissension tease, which caused them to basically put Batista in the spot that was originally intended for Orton. In retrospect it actually worked out fine because Orton wasn't ready for a top face run (and actually never has hit that level he was supposed to) and Batista was, but at the time the handling of Orton was incomprehensible.
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Jan 24, 2013 17:57
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The worst part about Legacy was that the crowd was red-hot for Cody to turn face when Orton & DiBiase were beating up Dusty, and they were red-hot months later for Ted to turn face when Orton & Rhodes were beating up Ted Sr., and WWE refused to pull the trigger on either. They opted to turn Orton face by having him (finally) realize that his blindly loyal followers were incompetent dolts costing him more matches than they were helping him win. Instead of taking either of two young semi-over heels and turning them into potential mega-faces against the mega-over heel Orton, they turned the mega-over heel Orton into mega-over face Orton and let Cody & Ted flounder as bumbling fools. Cody managed to recover slightly thanks to the mask run & hung on as a midcarder, but Ted's a complete nobody.
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Jan 24, 2013 18:16
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The Batista turn might be the most perfectly-timed face turn of the past 10 years. When he attacked HHH to make it official, the crowd was absolutely rabid for it. Perfect example of the "predictable" outcome being the best one if the storytelling is good and the pacing is right.
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Jan 24, 2013 18:16
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Tato posted:My first exposure to guys like Chris Hero was from JCW. The in-ring quality is terrible, but in conjunction with the commentary it's pretty funny. The quality of the rings themselves, however, is a little scary. I remember watching some JCW DVD where a guy attempted a middle rope moonsault outside the ring and the rope just snapped, making him fall head first into the ground. Was this the show that featured Shane Douglas and the XPW (shudder) invasion? If so, I was about 5 feet away from where the dude landed in the front row. And yes, the crowd at an ICP wrestling show is exactly what you think it is.
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Jan 24, 2013 18:53
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Minidust posted:The Batista turn might be the most perfectly-timed face turn of the past 10 years. When he attacked HHH to make it official, the crowd was absolutely rabid for it. Perfect example of the "predictable" outcome being the best one if the storytelling is good and the pacing is right. That was a great moment and also led to the best set of gifs ever, including the dinosaur thumbs down.
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Jan 24, 2013 18:54
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oldskool posted:The worst part about Legacy was that the crowd was red-hot for Cody to turn face when Orton & DiBiase were beating up Dusty, and they were red-hot months later for Ted to turn face when Orton & Rhodes were beating up Ted Sr., and WWE refused to pull the trigger on either. They opted to turn Orton face by having him (finally) realize that his blindly loyal followers were incompetent dolts costing him more matches than they were helping him win. I can't help but wonder why they "tried" to pull the trigger with Alex Riley over Miz instead of these.
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Jan 24, 2013 19:52
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Jetfire posted:I can't help but wonder why they "tried" to pull the trigger with Alex Riley over Miz instead of these. Alex Riley has a bodybuilder physique and Vince's preferred kind of face, Rhodes and Dibiase don't. I don't think there's a lot of wonder there.
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Jan 24, 2013 20:05
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A-Ri had all the tools they could have wanted except any discernible wrestling ability. He had a good look, some charisma, a good wrestling entrance theme, and decent momentum. Then they had him wrestle and oh my god. Bless you, John Cena, for allegedly killing his push. Bless you.
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Jan 24, 2013 20:19
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is Alex Riley even still employed?
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Jan 24, 2013 20:24
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Cardboard Box posted:is Alex Riley even still employed? He was in the show-closing battle royal on Raw this week
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Jan 24, 2013 20:25
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so that was his first Raw or Smackdown appearance in how long?
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Jan 24, 2013 20:26
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ThatCguy posted:Was this the show that featured Shane Douglas and the XPW (shudder) invasion? Yes it was. On the DVD they cut Shane Douglas' promo to 2 minutes and just ridiculed him on commentary the entire time he on screen. It was hilarious. Riley should stop taping up his arm like it's broken. It reminds me of Bob Orton and the last thing Alex Riley needs is to do is anything that makes someone think of other wrestlers and how much he sucks in comparison. Regardless, I will probably always think he sucks because of that Swagger botch and I will always think Swagger is a beast for getting him up. Tato fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Jan 24, 2013 |
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Jan 24, 2013 20:29
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Cardboard Box posted:so that was his first Raw or Smackdown appearance in how long? July 3rd at the Great American Bash edition of Smackdown in a loss to Ziggler that didn't even go 3 minutes. Actually this was the match where Dolph qualified for MitB. Or rather, not long enough
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Jan 24, 2013 20:32
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Does anyone have the list of content that the Wrestlemania Anthology sets either cut or edit out? I don't know if there is a full list anywhere, but I remember a lot of the edits being discussed somewhere on the boards a year or so back.
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Jan 24, 2013 20:48
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Claytor posted:That's because of all of the core members of Legacy, Orton had the best established character and the longest career to that point. When you're counting on one wrestler to carry a stable on his shoulders in the ring and on the microphone, and the bulk of that wrestler's skillset is evenly split between headlocks and talking slowly, you're completely hosed. Randy Orton is actually a pretty good wrestler soooooo…
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Jan 24, 2013 20:57
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ThatCguy posted:And yes, the crowd at an ICP wrestling show is exactly what you think it is. I caught an early JCW show in Cincy back in May of 2000, and this is spot-on. They had a guy working a gay gimmick (you can imagine the heel heat, sadly) and I watched a lit cigarette land in his blonde afro while he was cutting a promo in-ring. ICP wrestled in the main event and I don't know if there's anything more terrifying than the reaction of Juggalos when "Chicken Huntin" starts up. I kinda feared for my life. Oh, and before the show the cops had to disperse the crowd and spray down the sidewalk due to idiots spraying Faygo.
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Jan 24, 2013 21:21
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Beef Jerky Robot posted:Randy Orton is actually a pretty good wrestler soooooo… He's getting better, but he used to be really boring and he's still not as good as everyone in the company makes him out to be. He's got great body language, but he's not a versatile performer and his promo voice is terrible.
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Jan 24, 2013 21:46
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He never says anything interesting. At least the legend-killer gimmick had some sort of point.
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Jan 24, 2013 21:48
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Supreme Allah posted:He never says anything interesting. At least the legend-killer gimmick had some sort of point. Orton was also really good at the start of Legacy, when he said he had whatever disorder it was that made him kick people in the head and go after Stephanie while HHH was handcuffed to the ropes.
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Jan 24, 2013 21:50
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CombineThresher posted:He's getting better, but he used to be really boring and he's still not as good as everyone in the company makes him out to be. He's got great body language, but he's not a versatile performer and his promo voice is terrible.
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Jan 24, 2013 21:52
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Supreme Allah posted:At least the legend-killer gimmick had some sort of point. The 'spoiled little punk' gimmick was something I could get behind. RNN was pretty clever, but they ditched that idea after a month.
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Jan 24, 2013 21:54
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achillesforever6 posted:Didn't Randy used to be good at doing promos instead of the slow... monotone...... boring character that we have today? I remember Randy Orton being a slow, monotone promo as far back as his feud with the Undertaker.
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Jan 24, 2013 22:15
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triplexpac posted:Orton was also really good at the start of Legacy, when he said he had whatever disorder it was that made him kick people in the head and go after Stephanie while HHH was handcuffed to the ropes. That Orton was the best Orton and I wish they'd carried on with the gimmick. Someone who was legitimately (insofar as kayfabe is legitimate, which it isn't) sick in the head and could go off on anyone at any time was scary and compelling. It was like a more fleshed-out version of the Austin character, and totally fit with his slower promo style. I would've written it that he brought it up to excuse his actions, as he did, but he actually gets diagnosed with the disorder. Maybe that'd hit too close to home with the Benoit stuff though.
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Jan 24, 2013 22:20
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Orton DDT'ing Stephanie and then smooching her while an enraged Hunter was 2 feet away was an insane angle, and definitely was one of the more interesting things Orton has ever taken part in.
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Jan 24, 2013 22:23
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The best Orton to me will always be a toss-up between car-hood RKO'ing, Birthday Cake RKO'ing Legend Killer Randy, and goofy split-jumping, cookie-eating-mid-Christmas-match Apex Predator Randy.
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Jan 24, 2013 22:25
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Gonz posted:Orton DDT'ing Stephanie and then smooching her while an enraged Hunter was 2 feet away was an insane angle, and definitely was one of the more interesting things Orton has ever taken part in. I remember I was watching Raw and my roommates were around, they're not really wrestling fans. Anyway, everyone ended up really into that segment, it was like the opposite of someone walking in while Trish is barking like a dog
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Jan 24, 2013 22:28
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triplexpac posted:I remember I was watching Raw and my roommates were around, they're not really wrestling fans. Anyway, everyone ended up really into that segment, it was like the opposite of someone walking in while Trish is barking like a dog Then it was ruined by Shanes phantom punches, motor boating, and the wrestlemania match.
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Jan 24, 2013 22:29
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Gonz posted:Orton DDT'ing Stephanie and then smooching her while an enraged Hunter was 2 feet away was an insane angle, and definitely was one of the more interesting things Orton has ever taken part in. The infuriating thing about that period was that every week Orton would do something amazing and then Triple H would laugh it off or beat down Orton and Legacy like it wasn't anything, and completely deflate the whole thing. Then Orton would come out again the next week and ramp everything up and make it exciting again.... and Triple H would laugh it off or beat down Orton and Legacy like it wasn't anything. Then they finally had their Wrestlemania match which was.... drab to say the least. They put a perfectly serviceable but not particularly stand-out Raw main event match into the top spot at Wrestle-goddamn-Mania. 
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Jan 24, 2013 22:31
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triplexpac posted:I remember I was watching Raw and my roommates were around, they're not really wrestling fans. Anyway, everyone ended up really into that segment, it was like the opposite of someone walking in while Trish is barking like a dog Hunter's acting is what really sold it. Orton was A+ as an insane creeper during that segment, but Hunter's infuriation and sense of helplessness and the fact that he had a look on his face that said "I will tear your head from your shoulders if I get out of these cuffs" really tied it all together. It was really uncomfortable to watch, which is probably why so many people were drawn in by it.
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Jan 24, 2013 22:31
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I still think this is Hunters best acting. He really sold this and made it a big fucken deal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR0H30BK9i4
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Jan 24, 2013 22:33
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The look on Orton's face when he realises he's just punted Vince is one of the best facial reactions that I've ever seen. He just sells the character perfectly in the space of ten seconds.
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Jan 24, 2013 22:35
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Jerusalem posted:The infuriating thing about that period was that every week Orton would do something amazing and then Triple H would laugh it off or beat down Orton and Legacy like it wasn't anything, and completely deflate the whole thing. Then Orton would come out again the next week and ramp everything up and make it exciting again.... and Triple H would laugh it off or beat down Orton and Legacy like it wasn't anything. I wasn't watching during this time period, but reading this I couldn't help but think it's an interesting contrast to the way he reacted to Foley becoming Cactus Jack (which bobkatt013 just happened to post while I was typing this). Foley completely credits Triple H's reaction with legitimizing Cactus as a more dangerous person than Mankind, but it sounds like he went in the exact opposite direction when dealing with Orton.
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Jan 24, 2013 22:39
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bobkatt013 posted:I still think this is Hunters best acting. He really sold this and made it a big fucken deal. As Mick himself said, if HHH DIDN'T sell this segment like he had simultaneously seen a ghost and caught his balls in his zipper, it would have fallen flat on its face. I mean, take Hunter out of the equation. It's just a guy taking a mask and a shirt off, and insisting he's a different person.
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Jan 24, 2013 22:43
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Yeah, at some point Triple H seems to have decided that it was more important to remain his own character's "coolness" and that merely being in the ring with him would somehow raise other people up to his level instead of him "lowering" himself to their level by treating them as legitimate threats. He'd still have moments, of course, such as his fear of Batista but he usually reserves breaking his "cool" for guys who are already truly established - such as his bloodbath with Ric Flair where he starts to panic as he realizes that Flair isn't the has-been he thought, or his second Mania match with Undertaker where Taker kicks out of the Tombstone Piledriver and Triple H backs away from Taker's non-moving corpse with utter terror in his eyes as he realizes that nothing can stop this inhuman thing.
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Jan 24, 2013 22:49
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Was WH2K/PSP around back in 2004? I'm just trying to imagine the climate of the gameday thread for the Wrestlemania 20 main event. The sense of utter disbelief at that final shot must've been palpable.
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Jan 24, 2013 22:50
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Jerusalem posted:such as his bloodbath with Ric Flair where he starts to panic as he realizes that Flair isn't the has-been he thought... When was this? I'm not sure that I've seen it.
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Jan 24, 2013 22:52
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LightsGameraAction posted:When was this? I'm not sure that I've seen it. I think it was a cage match Taboo Tuesday or Cyber Sunday or something? I may be wrong
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Jan 24, 2013 22:54
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LightsGameraAction posted:When was this? I'm not sure that I've seen it. Taboo Tuesday 2005. An absolutely incredible match, one of Trips' best, in my opinion. Just when HHH goes berzerk and thinks he's finally laid out Ric, and Ric just staggers back to his feet. I remember a particular shot where the camera just zoomed right in to a close-up of HHH's face, and it's basically "  " as Ric keeps getting up like a loving Terminator.Oh, and a warning: It's UP THERE on the Muta Scale. Gyro Zeppeli fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Jan 24, 2013 |
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Jan 24, 2013 22:54
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Minidust posted:Was WH2K/PSP around back in 2004? I'm just trying to imagine the climate of the gameday thread for the Wrestlemania 20 main event. The sense of utter disbelief at that final shot must've been palpable. Here you go: Wrestlemania 20 Predictions/Discussion Thread LightsGameraAction posted:When was this? I'm not sure that I've seen it. Taboo Tuesday in 2005, it's one of the best modern Ric Flair matches, absolutely loving outstanding match.
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Jan 24, 2013 22:54
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Minidust posted:Was WH2K/PSP around back in 2004? I'm just trying to imagine the climate of the gameday thread for the Wrestlemania 20 main event. The sense of utter disbelief at that final shot must've been palpable. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=956385 if you have archives there's the thread. Was in regular sports forum back then. Think psp came around 2006ish
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