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Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

Hello chiicagooo!

Oh, wait, is that a GameStop employee in the back? Hey, you, give me a refund. No, I don't care if it was my fault, just - look, am I the one with the microphone or not? REFUND, biyotch!

triplexpac posted:

I posted this in the main WWE thread, but this is probably a better place.

I was bored today so I tried to think of all the Main Event stars the WWE has made in the last 5-ish years. This means guys who were already established like HHH, HBK, etc. are out.

"Main event star" is subjective, but I think at least holding a World Title is a good indicator.

Current:
Batista
John Cena
Edge
Chris Jericho (debatable, but I think he really stepped up to be a main event player)
Randy Orton

No longer wrestling:
JBL
Eddie Guererro
King Booker (lol)

Borderline main eventers:
Jeff Hardy
CM Punk
Rey Jr
Khali?
Sheamus?
You could probably throw RVD and Benoit into the "Borderline" category (not sure if Benoit's 2004 push would be considered too early for this). IMO Jeff was way past borderline status; he would have been MADE if he stuck around. You could upgrade him to... "no longer wrestling" I guess.

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Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

Hello chiicagooo!

Oh, wait, is that a GameStop employee in the back? Hey, you, give me a refund. No, I don't care if it was my fault, just - look, am I the one with the microphone or not? REFUND, biyotch!

homeboy is still winning slammies months after leaving the company

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

Hello chiicagooo!

Oh, wait, is that a GameStop employee in the back? Hey, you, give me a refund. No, I don't care if it was my fault, just - look, am I the one with the microphone or not? REFUND, biyotch!

triplexpac posted:

Yeah I guess Jeff should be ranked higher. It's a tough call for me though. If he had a Wrestlemania main event under his belt, he'd be up there in my books for sure.
"Faces in the Wrestlemania main event" is a pretty short list though:
- Hogan
- Savage
- Warrior
- Bret
- Nash
- HBK
- Taker
- Austin
- Foley (barely)
- Rock
- HHH
- Lesnar
- Benoit
- Batista
- Cena

Fifteen guys from the mid-eighties until now. Surely there have been legitimate face main eventers to not be in that spot, for whatever reason.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

Hello chiicagooo!

Oh, wait, is that a GameStop employee in the back? Hey, you, give me a refund. No, I don't care if it was my fault, just - look, am I the one with the microphone or not? REFUND, biyotch!

hahaha in a forum I used to frequent there was a guy who would always freak out over Sweet Chin Music, saying how it shouldn't be a finisher now because Shawn used it when he was in The Rockers and it didn't knock people out. Whatever, it always seemed like acceptable kayfabe to just say that he "perfected the move over the years" or something along those lines.

Similarly I guess you could just say that Hogan was "having an off night" at Wrestlemania XIX if you really wanna rationalize it.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

Hello chiicagooo!

Oh, wait, is that a GameStop employee in the back? Hey, you, give me a refund. No, I don't care if it was my fault, just - look, am I the one with the microphone or not? REFUND, biyotch!

Supreme Allah posted:

The biggest mystery to me in the industry will be Vinces pointless cheapness during the Invasion - He had to start things off with the 2nd tier of WCW because why, Nash.Hogan.Sting were happy getting paid to sit at home? He didn't get Goldberg until way later either. If he had given out a few million dollars to lure out some huge names at the start, it would have truly been the most epic event in industry history. Considering he was coming off the hottest era in his companies history and he was walking around with a giant erection over finally becoming a billionaire, it was even more perplexing and short sighted. Someone should do the math on how much that has cost him in the long run.

AND, capitalizing the V is loving weird and I wont do it until someone gives me a great justification for it
All the graphics hyped up that red "V", and the InVasion PPV actually had a "V"-shaped entrance ramp (WWF guys came out one side and Alliance guys came out the other). It's kind of an odd detail to hone in on and promote, but there it was.

And yeah, it really is frustrating to see how many big names were left out of the Invasion angle, only to show up within the next couple of years anyway. Scott Steiner, Goldberg, the freaking nWo, hell even Mysterio would have given a much more immense scope to the whole thing. Instead they just turned WWF guys heel to play the roles of the main WCW heavies, and that just made the whole thing feel inauthentic.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

Hello chiicagooo!

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Jerusalem posted:

THE CONSORTIUM.... WAS ME!

After the disappointment of the Invasion, Ric Flair returning and knocking Vince off of his perch was such a huge markout moment for me.
lol, I still crack up over how intentionally lovely they made Austin's theme song for his heel run

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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Web Jew.0 posted:

Honestly the best thing about the inVasion was post-9/11 Kurt Angle.

Can anybody find a video of the whole crowd stood up and did the Pledge of Allegiance with him?
hahaha he was the biggest face, and I also remember him saying something about "AMERICANA BULLSHIT" on Smackdown. It was weird!

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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I think people are looking too much into Bret's LIES last night. It's all just a little bit of kayfabe housekeeping for the sake of the big Wrestlemania angle.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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Jerusalem posted:

No, no, that's what made it fun - Bret straight up lying because they're working an angle is what made me so happy, it made me realize that he was REALLY back.
oh hey that's a pretty nice way of looking at it

Jerusalem posted:

They do in WWE and I couldn't be happier. I cringe everytime I see someone take an unprotected chairshot in ROH, it doesn't detract from the moment AT ALL to throw your hand up and I wish they would, particularly Necro Butcher.
I've always hated when people give the big "THAT'S SO FAKE!!!" reaction to a blocked chairshot. Is frantically protecting your face not a "realistic" reaction to seeing a chair fly at you?

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

Hello chiicagooo!

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DannoMack posted:

Can someone tell me a little about the legit heat between the Rock and HBK? Someone once told me that HBK picked on the Rock when he was new, and that when Bret Hart wanted to lose to the Rock clean in an IC title match, HBK had a shitfit and convinced Vince not to let it happen. But the person who told me this is a huge Bret Hart fan and anti-HBK guy, so I had to take it with a grain of salt.

What is the problem between Rocky and Shawn?
Don't know any answers to this but it's the first time I've heard the part about Bret wanting to lose to Rocky. It just strikes me as odd because Bret didn't really lose clean to anybody once he was in the main event. I'm racking my brain and the only clean losses I can think of were to Owen and Davey Boy. One could argue how "clean" WM12 was with the sharpshooter being broken by the clock, and there was one ambiguous ref-stoppage finish in a Raw match with Austin.

Heck, may as well just make that a question of my own then. Did Bret lose clean to anybody else in WWF?

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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Kentucky Shark posted:

He lost to Lawler at the first In Your House (though I think the angle was that Hart came into that match injured after a match with Hakushi earlier in the show). Off the top of my head, all the rest of his losses after winning the title involved interference or something similar. Of course he was a face up until the year he left the company, and it really wasn't all that common in the WWF at that time for main event-level faces to lose clean, so it's hard to know if it was due to the booking of the era as opposed to him refusing to job or something.
Oh yeah, I'm sure it was more of a booking thing than a Bret thing. I don't really recall Lex Luger losing clean in his WWF run either. Hell I don't think Ahmed Johnson ever lost clean.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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Hockles posted:

HBK, sorta. Jim Duggan.
HBK used a section of "Rhapsody In Blue" as theme music right after the barber shop! He got the Sherri version of "Sexy Boy" soon afterward.

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0PfAH6eU14

Minidust fucked around with this message at Jan 7, 2010 around 17:24

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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Jack Krauser posted:

Yes, but who else on the active WWE roster has had their music for longer than he has?
Oh well yeah, it's definitely the had the longest lifespan of any theme still used today, without question.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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I think this is the third or fourth version of Goldust's theme right now. He had a really short loop when he first debuted, then they just added a middle to it for the theme he used for most of his original run. They did a remixed version when he was "The Artist Formerly Known As Goldust" and once he went from Dustin Rhodes back to Goldust again I think he got the version that he uses today.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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Rusty Shackelford posted:

How about when his music was "Rollin'"?
The theme he had right after Rollin' was hilarious.
"Nice guys, it's said they always finish last
but badasses always kick rear end!"

Although it was also pretty funny to have Undertaker stare down his opponent with "Get some better beats and uhhhh get some better rhymes" blaring in the background.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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CM Junk posted:

Like I said, at latest since the V1 days, so at least seven years running now. Wikipedia says his only themes he's used were that and the Hardys theme, so sometime after they initially split up has he been using that as his singles theme.
It first showed up on that "Forceable Entry" CD, listed as being "inspired by" the Hardy Boyz or something along those lines. Shortly afterward Matt started using a cut up version of it as a proper entrance theme.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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Oh, wait, is that a GameStop employee in the back? Hey, you, give me a refund. No, I don't care if it was my fault, just - look, am I the one with the microphone or not? REFUND, biyotch!

Jerusalem posted:

If I remember correctly it was at the same time they were doing their bit where they didn't tell refs the endings to matches so they wouldn't be able to unconsciously telegraph kick-outs/endings coming and the wrestlers had to be careful about actually being DQed. I thought it was actually a really neat idea, but whenever anything went wrong the referee seemed to be the one unfairly getting blamed.
whoa, did this really happen? even in the indy shows I've worked, the referees need to know the finishes and match times so the show can be paced properly. I assume this would be even more strict on televised WWE shows.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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rotinaj posted:

WWE tried it for about 3 months last year or so, it didn't work well.
wow, interesting. was it only for taped shows at least?

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

Hello chiicagooo!

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Bearnt! posted:

What was the original plan for Lesnar/Goldberg before everything went to poo poo? I could probably leave my question at that but I won't. They had their quick stare down tease at Survivor Series, followed by Lesnar F5'ing Goldberg during the Rumble causing him to be eliminated. Lesnar then drops the title to Eddie at No Way Out when Goldberg takes Stone Cold's advice and interferes. Was Lesnar confirmed as leaving at this point hence the title drop? After this it gets hazy for me. Did they realize a deal wasn't going to be worked out with Goldberg to renew his contact and then to make things worse Brock decided to leave on top of that? So they kind of just said gently caress it and got Stone Cold involved to send them off in front of a hot crowd who knew they were both leaving the company?
I don't know the details but I remember Lesnar's departure as huge news that broke out right before Wrestlemania, whereas it had already been common knowledge that Goldberg wouldn't be around once his 1-year deal was up. So I can only assume that the original plan was for Goldberg to go out on his back.

Once it was clear that they were BOTH leaving, the "time honored tradition" no longer applied so i guess they just put the face over (or perhaps they felt more betrayed by the way Brock left).

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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Supreme Allah posted:

He became that by the end, yes. When he first debut' though he was built up as a monster heel who loved pain and would fight Undertaker in boiler rooms, and his promos were just psychotic ramblings and him pulling his own hair out. Eventually when he introduced more of his personality, he became a giant jobber. The Rock by himself had two seperate returns where his main reason was to save Mick Foley from getting his rear end kicked - one was against Evolution but the other was against.. La Resistance.
yeah and he went over Undertaker, pretty much clean, in their first match, but it was pretty downhill from their as far as won/loss record is concerned.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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Foley did beat midcard-HHH a few times though, and in his feud with the corporation he was pretty much portrayed as being equal to The Rock. But yeah, once he was a 100% main eventer his role was pretty much to put over the top guys.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

Hello chiicagooo!

Oh, wait, is that a GameStop employee in the back? Hey, you, give me a refund. No, I don't care if it was my fault, just - look, am I the one with the microphone or not? REFUND, biyotch!

When he's not booked in that sappy, ultra-kiddy fashion, I will admit with no shame that I mark out for Hornswoggle.

Vince McMahon strapping him into a car seat and growling "he's an INFANT!" still strikes me as one of the funniest things ever for some reason.

Hmm - and I suppose my username gives away my opinion that midgets will always have a place in wrestling.

Minidust fucked around with this message at Jan 14, 2010 around 21:15

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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CM Junk posted:

- Randy Orton's strategy during his Iron Man match with John Cena. Cena got Orton in the STFU early on in the match and Orton tapped immediately so that Cena could get an easy fall without Orton having to suffer nearly any damage at all. Orton then more or less pounded the piss out of Cena for 20 minutes straight until he got cocky and gave Cena time to recover, gain an upperhand and tie up the score. With about a minute left Orton started freaking out because he realized he wasn't in a position to put Cena away anymore and you could see Orton starting to panic:



Even though it looked like he was beatboxing. The fact that he tapped out with two seconds left in regulation kind of ruined an otherwise great match, but I still think it told a pretty great story.
As Orton was struggling to get out of the final STF, Cena turned it around so that Orton was facing AWAY from the Titantron once the move was clinched in. Orton could no longer see how much time was left, and he tapped. Not sure if that was intentional, but it added a neat touch of psychology to that finish.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

Hello chiicagooo!

Oh, wait, is that a GameStop employee in the back? Hey, you, give me a refund. No, I don't care if it was my fault, just - look, am I the one with the microphone or not? REFUND, biyotch!

KungFu Grip posted:

Dudley Boys were over as faces and during the last of their contract creative said they had nothing for them. They had nothing for the Dudley Boys to do. Have the Dudleys put people through tables!
My guess is that they gave each guy a singles run, and it was decided that they only worked as a dedicated tag-team. Which meant, as far as the WWE mindset was concerned, that they had no future. They want tag-teams to build future singles superstars, not the other way around.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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Davros1 posted:

I've never understood why, instead of letting people go because they "don't have anything for them", why not give the chance to find a partner and try to make it in the tag division? There's been precedent of guys who were floundering around aimlessly, could have been let go, but had gotten a good bump from a being a part of the tag division.
You pretty much just described the formation of the New Age Outlaws. Say what you want about them now, but they were HUGE for a while, and clearly the most successful "Two Jobbers With Nothing To Do" tag-team of all time.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

Hello chiicagooo!

Oh, wait, is that a GameStop employee in the back? Hey, you, give me a refund. No, I don't care if it was my fault, just - look, am I the one with the microphone or not? REFUND, biyotch!

Beef Jerky Robot posted:

That's the thing. The call is super inconsistent. The announcers call El Generico's corner boot a yakuza kick, and one of the Briscoe's kicks is called a yakuza, so I inferred that it was like a running boot. But now Taker does a running boot that looks different. In games a yakuza kick looks like a combination big boot and super kick, but it looks different in real life.
I'm putting way too much thought into this.
haha I always get all O.C.D. over the naming conventions of wrestling moves. I want there to be some general rules but with inconsistent announcing it's never gonna happen.

For example, the suffix "buster" implies impact with the ground whereas "breaker" implies that the impact is on a part of the attacker's body. Hence, a "spinebuster" slams an opponent back-first into the mat and a "backbreaker" drops the back across the knee. Meanwhile "driver" always implies an impact to the head. And any move in which the attacker falls backwards can be considered part of the "suplex" family.

But anyway that's all moot since moves will be called whatever people want them to be called and I'm putting waaaaaaaay to much thought into this so yeah.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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haha yeah I was just commenting on how I wish there was standardized wrestling nomenclature, as far as "official" move names go. it's almost there in some places but there are glaring inconsistencies that throw it off.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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Oh, wait, is that a GameStop employee in the back? Hey, you, give me a refund. No, I don't care if it was my fault, just - look, am I the one with the microphone or not? REFUND, biyotch!

I was just thinking about a past Rumble PPV, I believe it was 2005, that had an HHH vs. Orton match for the title. At one point Orton did a DDT near the edge of the ring, and then appeared to be knocked loopy for the rest of the match. They were selling it as if he whacked the back of his own head when he did the DDT. I forget if I ever saw a "report" on that... did he legit concuss himself or was it a worked botch?

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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Psycho Mantits posted:

It was a work; Orton would continue to get "concussed" in matches for the next couple of weeks.
ahhhh, I had forgotten all about that part (it does sound slightly familiar now that you mention it though)

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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And didn't he have a strange relationship with Terri Runnels at some point? I remember him kissing her and then yelling "FREAKS RULE!"

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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WeaselWeaz posted:

You didn't ask, but the half-mask was pretty much just a way to make it easier for Kane to talk. They had gotten rid of the voicebox gimmick by then, saying he had one implanted in his throat when he was teaming with X-Pac.
hahah oh wow, did they really do a "voice box implant" angle? The furthest explanation I can recall them giving was when X-Pac just tossed the voice box aside during an interview and went "YOU DON'T NEED THIS drat THING ANYMORE MAN!" and then Kane just started talking normally.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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I think Goldust and HHH both appeared in the '97 Rumble, after their match earlier in the night. Oftentimes they've had one guy go over in a match, only to have his opponent toss him in the Rumble later for some measure of revenge.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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Maybe it's just the forums I frequented at the time, but I remember Rock getting a LOT of hate around 2000-2001. People blew a gasket when he randomly started using the Sharpshooter.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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haha yeah that's true about HHH's change in size. I remember back in like '96 when HHH was noticeably smaller than most of the roster. He was that guy who would get gorilla-pressed by wrestlers who didn't normally do gorilla-presses.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

Hello chiicagooo!

Oh, wait, is that a GameStop employee in the back? Hey, you, give me a refund. No, I don't care if it was my fault, just - look, am I the one with the microphone or not? REFUND, biyotch!

Suben posted:

You know, I've been wondering what happened to dragging your opponent into position if you have a top rope finisher? The opponent gets knocked down like halfway across the ring and has to squirm into position now (well, for awhile anyway). It just looks really dumb and takes me right out of the match.
On a similar note, why does Starship Pain semi-whiff almost every time? You'd think Morrison would catch on after overshooting it so much. With that said, I'm wondering if it's just an especially unsafe move to take head on, and the light grazing is intentional.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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What's the source on these move "bans" that have happened from time to time? They always struck me as something that the IWC types just made up during slow news days.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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People seem to be saying "the piledriver is banned, except when they feel like doing one." Well that's not really a "ban" then. It's just something they like to save for special occasions.

In a way, I'd put it in the same category as the "steal the opponent's finisher" spot - it's not a spot that's used very much, but it gets a real "OHHHH no he didn't!" reaction any time it happens.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

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We're deep in the PG era now, but what was the most profane segment ever in mainstream wrestling, language-wise? (old ECW doesn't count as mainstream)

I guess only stuff that was actually spoken into a live mic should count. The naughtiest stuff I can think of was wasted on a random Diva Search segment and a Kid Rock concert. Other than that, there was Bret's infamous tirade right before Wrestlemania 13. Also from around 2000-2003, they seemed to make a point of saying "poo poo" on major WWE PPVs.

Minidust fucked around with this message at Feb 12, 2010 around 21:11

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

Hello chiicagooo!

Oh, wait, is that a GameStop employee in the back? Hey, you, give me a refund. No, I don't care if it was my fault, just - look, am I the one with the microphone or not? REFUND, biyotch!

How did Undertaker's "Ministry" heel turn come about? I remember him fighting Austin at SummerSlam '98 and it was kind of a face vs. face mutual respect thing. Next thing I remember he's strapping Austin to the giant Undertaker symbol, and turning Mabel into a zombie at the Royal Rumble. Even after that he was fighting off Vince's guys for the most part (before the Corporate Minsitry formed in classic RUSSO SWERVE fashion) so I'm just trying to figure out at what point the turn actually happened.

And after that, he was basically the heel AmishTaker until he got injured and returned as BikerTaker, right? Or did something else happen in between there that I forgot?

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Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

Hello chiicagooo!

Oh, wait, is that a GameStop employee in the back? Hey, you, give me a refund. No, I don't care if it was my fault, just - look, am I the one with the microphone or not? REFUND, biyotch!

I dunno about piped in chants. You see matches on TV with really dead crowds all the time. Why would they leave those on TV as-is, if they had the option to dress them up with some noise?

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