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remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



I heard somewhere that whenever Rock made a guaran-drat-tee about a match it was one he was going to win.

Goldberg didn't need to be better, he just needed to keep doing what worked for him. Tyson didn't need long matches to draw, Rousey doesn't need long matches to draw, Goldberg didn't need long matches to draw. The only way he should have ever lost is to the wrestling equivalent of a hail of gun fire by the Mexican army. And when he was done recuperating, he should have taken the Mexican army down one soldier at a time.

E: Goldberg at his peak was what Brock Lesnar is now, but on a full time schedule. You ride that loving rocket until it doesn't go anymore and then try to make somebody at the end of it.

remusclaw fucked around with this message at Aug 2, 2015 around 23:00

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remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



I got my reference wrong though, it was the Bolivian army. Still point stands.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



I think to make it work you needed to kill him as dead as Triple H did Bryan before WM 30 and with at the very least a 5 to 1 advantage. A better and more brutal version of Yokozuna vs Undertaker at the Rumble if you will.
The run didn't need to last forever, but a couple of boo's wouldn't have killed him dead. My general point though assumes a booking committee capable of keeping something like that going long term. And that's the thing about history, people always ask, what if Hitler didn't decide to attack Russia or declare war on the U.S in the middle of the conflict? The answer honestly has to be "if they didn't do that, they wouldn't have been WCW."

He was fine for a longer match occasionally when he had a good opponent, says a lot for DDP and not very much for Triple H.

remusclaw fucked around with this message at Aug 3, 2015 around 03:51

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



Its the new shining wizard.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



Hogan's leg drop, not because of it's lameness, which is considerable, but also because finishing with the Ax bomber would likely have saved him a lot of surgeries.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



I admit a fondness for lariat finishers in general. Another rather lacking one is the Shane Douglas/Magnum TA belly to belly. I honestly think the GTS is all in the sell, and WWE guys never sold it right. I think it works better with a knock out slow fall or crumple sell rather than a quick back bump. Essentially everyone needs to sell it more like Randy Orton taking the Sweet Chin Music. Though I suppose it would look better if Punk had really laid it in like Kenta tended to, but I think that would have been unlikely to be allowed in WWE.

remusclaw fucked around with this message at Aug 8, 2015 around 14:09

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



You're right about TA's Belly to belly, I shouldn't have used him as I really had more of an issue of Douglas using it in ECW where piledrivers and weapons shots made it seem a little underwhelming. In the 80's NWA finisher escalation really hadn't taken effect yet so the belly to belly is fine. One I didn't really care for was Dino Bravo's sidewalk slam, talk about a finish that makes a scoop slam look like a killer.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



I named it wrong because it was named wrong in the clip I watched. Bravo does a side slam, like Kane as his finish. Boss Man's slam I have always liked, but I have known people who hate it. I guess it really is on the viewer more than anything else. Big Shows punch is really goofy though, its not even the argument that he should go for it all the time because if it hits it kills, it the fact that everyone else does punch all the drat time and Show actively seems to avoid punching during his matches because of his finish.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



When he first started doing the wizard, he hit them a lot harder and with a lot less flash, I would guess it didn't hurt so much when he changed his technique. Take a look at the first one here for example. See also number 75 and 89 for how mean he was to Kawada early after the birth of the move.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL5RB8RivY8

remusclaw fucked around with this message at Aug 9, 2015 around 04:34

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



I have always seen it referred to as the flashing elbow, but could never figure out if it applied to his proto peoples elbow or his cartwheel corner elbow.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



Ah that explains the name of Great Sasuke's Space rolling tiger dives. Space rolling = cartwheel.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



I know the matches where probably pretty good, but all I can remember from that feud was Punk making himself on the mic.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



DynamiteKidd posted:


I still love that every loving idea Vince had in the New Generation was "this guy has another job and wrestles on the side"

Another thing TNA stole from the Vince.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



I saw that Rikishi match when it aired, and it had me convinced for longer than I would like to admit that he was going places.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



I don't remember much about how Khali was beat in general, but when Undertaker was in his big man battling days, he generally seemed to finish with his flying clothesline. If the big guy rarely goes down, knocking them down often seems to be what is needed to get the job done. Count-outs seem to be a big match ender in these cases as well.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



Orlando Jordan for one. Darren Young is an interesting case, as he came out in real life, but thankfully his character hasn't been pushed in the camp direction it likely would have been a few years back, he's still just a wrestler.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



Halloween Jack posted:

Pat Patterson and Terry Garvin, as well as a different Terry "Beauty" Garvin. And who could forget Hard Gay and Danshoku Dino? And Kwee Wee.

The gayest gimmick in history was the Hardcore Soldiers in WCW, but the company didn't acknowledge it.

I don't know if you could count Patterson, as the closest his sexual persuasion ever got to being a gimmick was during his run as a stooge, and even then I think it was just winks and nudges from the announcers.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



Did not know that, thanks. Yup, google images "Once he looked like this... The Pat Patterson Mystery.
http://s1075.photobucket.com/user/r...immick.jpg.html

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



OldTennisCourt posted:

As someone who never experienced it, what's the general consensus of the Ruthless Aggression era?

Best roster ever, dragged down by the fact that HHH rules the world and wants to be Ric Flair mixed with Harley Race.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



From what I remember hearing, they were the first team Vince McMahon wanted to do the gay marriage story line with, he never does give up on a concept.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



freeranger posted:

Ahh, not sure where I got Too Hot from.... and cool, I didn't imagine it then.

Side topic question, who was the tag team that was responsible for killing off Byte This? What did they do again?

The future Scotty too Hotty and Grandmaster Sexay was then known as Scott "Too Hot" Taylor, with his partner "Too Sexy" Brian Christopher.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



sticklefifer posted:

JR had a lot of fun with stupid material. There was that whole month when he got really excited about Skittles.
FRUITY! FRUITY! DELICIOUS! FRUITY!


Found a great detailed writeup of it on wreddit. The short version is they were both injured: Steiner was still gradually recovering from major foot surgery 6 months earlier, and HHH had partially torn his quad the previous month and had to be out of the ring for a few weeks.

Yeah, and its not like the show could go on without HHH. Somehow, he bravely soldiered through it.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



Steve Austin is always so complimentary of Savio and his work in his podcasts that I really need to go back and see what I was missing. Speaking of Savio, I remember renting the first No Way out (of Texas) a few times when I was a kid, and though the secret partner in the main event tag being Savio was a disappointment, I will always remember that match for someone getting a garbage can thrown into their face from across the ring.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



The lack of reaction to Big E bums me out because he seems so willing to kill himself for the sake of the fans yet got little response for it. That through the ropes spear he does on a regular basis is ridiculous.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



Xerzes posted:

That period where he was busting opponents' lips on a weekly basis couldn't have helped.

It ain't ballet.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



The most important thing you can take from Roberts as an in the ring wrestler is just how insane the crowd gets whenever he gets his opponent in a face-lock. His finish was death, and the crowd knew it was death, and he knew exactly when to tease it. Otherwise he was punches, knee lifts, short arm clotheslines, and a post match gimmick that was almost as over as the DDT.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



canada jezus posted:

If i wanted to watch and get into 90s japanese women wrestling, what the best way to go about that? Is there a subscription service someplace, tons of dvds? Cry as i watch pixelated and lovely dailymotion videos?

IVP videos used to be well regarded around here, and its still up, so unless anyone else can tell me if that has changed, here it is.

http://new.ivpvideos2.com/index.php

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



oldpainless posted:

Vince mcmahon

Depends on how you feel about the ECW title.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



Pope Corky the IX posted:

So how likely is it that WWE completely forgets Ronda Rousey exists and that they were desperately trying to get her to work a match at Wrestlemania?

Manic_Misanthrope posted:

Tyson was still a big deal after he lost to Buster Douglas. So they won't forget her, but maybe look for one of the women to start building a high profile unbeaten streak.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2...dy-savage_sport

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



Timby posted:

I don't think Foley made Orton so much as he did HHH. That run in early 2000 was what Hunter needed to really get to the next level.


I'd say Foley made both of them and had a good hand in taking Edge to the next level as well. He was also pretty instrumental in the rise of the Rock and provided a much needed opponent to Austin early in his first reign.

Edit: poo poo, he was basically the first opponent to maker Undertaker look good as something other than a freak show. VVV projecthalaxy, You beat me to it VVV

remusclaw fucked around with this message at Nov 20, 2015 around 20:01

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



MassRafTer posted:

HHH was a bigger star than Undertaker starting in 2000 and his run on top was way more successful than Shawn or Bret.

Only because someone has to be the guy on top when the business is on the way down from the peak. That guy will look good compared to guys on top in down periods, but he reigned over steady decline. Wouldn't blame him for it or anything, but I don't think he brought in new eyes, he just was the first of the post attitude top guys to have to struggle to keep the old ones watching.

The real question is, was he essential? I would argue no. He was on top when the WWE had a glut of awesome talent, you lose HHH and you lose nothing. You lose a Bret or a Shawn during the New Generation time-frame and you are looking at trouble.

remusclaw fucked around with this message at Nov 22, 2015 around 05:03

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



Vince didn't seem to think so at the time, being as both of those guys seemed to have him by the balls when it came to getting their way until he had to pick a side between the two of them.

HHH was champ being chased by the Rock in that time frame if I am right, and I would not put H over the Rock as top guy.

remusclaw fucked around with this message at Nov 22, 2015 around 05:10

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



What did HHH business look like when he didn't have a Rock and a Foley to kick around anymore though? His best years are hardly his alone and I wouldn't call them his at all. He had his domination, top of the card, no one touches me run when business started going down, despite being a part of perhaps the most stacked roster ever. You could name a half dozen viable champions for any different year during the HHH terror run and probably to similar or better business with them, they were not hurting for talent.

remusclaw fucked around with this message at Nov 22, 2015 around 05:16

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



With the dawn of his replacements. I certainly wont say he didn't do a decent job building Batista. It's funny, you always hear of a decline after Austin and the Rock left, are you saying that is a false narrative, was HHH the tipsy toppest money drawingest guy to date? Or, is he the guy on top for the first couple years of the way down? I never said he was terrible, just that he wasnt essential, and with Angle, Jericho, Taker, Brock, RVD, Goldberg, Booker, Guerrero, Mysterio, and such floating around, I don't think he was.

remusclaw fucked around with this message at Nov 22, 2015 around 05:28

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



So, the pose. Who did it first, after the statue anyway, Tanahashi or Orton? My thoughts are likely Orton as I haven't seen Tanahashi before Wrestle Kingdom 3 in 09 where he used it, but I simply don't know.

Second question, When is the last time Mutoh did the Space Rolling Elbow? Video games still gave it to him well into his bald, knee you in the face run, but I never remember seeing him do it after cutting his hair off and changing his style.

remusclaw fucked around with this message at Nov 30, 2015 around 04:45

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



Quote is not edit.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



Eh, he was doing it after he beat Mutoh at Wrestle Kingdom 3, so it does predate Okada.



Even earlier:



The last is from 2006 in in this match against AJ Styles in TNA;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR4Tt_BSMZ0

time stamp 1:40. Hard to say if it counts, even then Orton was legend killing as of the year prior, when did he start doing it?

This match also ends with AJ Styles hitting the Clash with no arm hooks, did he not add that until later, or was it just a weird outlier?
That match sent me looking for a Tanahashi v Scott Hall 2001 G1 match I could not find but I did get to see him and Kesuke Sasaki fight The Steiner Brothers in 01, including Tanahashi Taking a Screwdriver.

remusclaw fucked around with this message at Nov 30, 2015 around 06:26

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



You know, I think there is plenty of millage in a Max Cady from Cape Fear gimmick if put on a decent worker with some acting chops.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



Ha, never actually got to see that gimmick until now. The picnic vignette wasn't great, and it was new generation, I assume it wasnt very good was it?

The gimmick I think has to rest on all the implied threats having an actual target rather than just saying it to a camera and vaguely directing it at all the wrestlers in the company, Mercy seems relatively creepy there, but without a target you just get creepy, rather than the malevolence you really want to get across.

remusclaw fucked around with this message at Dec 1, 2015 around 21:25

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remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009



I just watched Waylon Mercy vs Jeff Hardy, and the Vince commentary just boggles my mind, because he's terrible, but his instincts when announcing are so good. He builds guys, he doesn't call move names but he calls the match, he's excited about everything he is seeing and its so loving weird, because you have a good announcer do the things he does on commentary and you might have some decent announcing, but his coaching is so terrible now.

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