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Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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Was Randy Savage considered a great technical wrestler? I know CM Punk idolizes him, though I guess when you mark for someone as a kid it doesn't necessarily have to be because they're good. The MMA challenge Punk issued to Chris Brown shortly after he brutalized Rihanna is weird to me in this context, given Savage's notoriety as a wife beater.

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Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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The commentary on the Rhodeses / Shield match at Battlegrounds was pretty good, I thought.

But yeah, otherwise Michael Cole is a bore with a boring soul patch

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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Makes me miss the AKI wrestling games, it was listed as "Hangman's DDT" in No Mercy. I guess the new WWE game is going to get the Rainmaker and Burning Hammer in a few months, but it's just not the same.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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re: X-Pac heat, Bo Dallas had in NXT for awhile til he turned into a pretty rad Kurt Angle-style "everybody loves me!" heel. The Ascension are surely bound for that distinction as well, though at this point the crowd's more ambivalent than hostile.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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A hot tag is actually when a face is getting kept out of his corner / beat down, and manages to tag in his partner in with his last ounce of strength. His partner then immediately goes on a "house on fire" offensive against the heels. One of the better common pops. Bryan got the hot tag in for Punk last Raw.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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Red posted:

It seems like he's the only guy Del Rio can have good matches with.
:crossarms:

OneThousandMonkeys posted:

I am unclear on why Christian disappeared down the rabbit hole after Orton/Christian.
He got concussed.

I really believe that the guys they're building up at NXT will help out the WWE when the next round of full-time retirements comes around. By all means we can grumble about physiques and NFL washouts and on and on, but I think it's a bit ridiculous to worry that the current main event class is going to be the last to ever be over.

Really I think it's out of their hands. The WWE needs something that's going to put wrestling in the general public eye again.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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The answer is always Diesel.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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Not counting Taker's hulking out of the Anaconda Vice?

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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It's the same eternal fandom vs. publisher conflict you see in gaming, right down to the "we only consume the product illegally because we hate it" argument

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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So Taker has a year or two more in him, right? Who would be a legit final opponent, and is it possible that they'd go over and break the streak?

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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It would have to come down to Taker himself I assume. He's definitely not Triple H but it's conceivable (and within his right) that he would like to end his run with the streak intact. I don't even know if the streak is of personal significance to him.

Having Taker sign off on the job would also be the only thing that would add legitimacy to the win, tbh. I feel like a lot of people will see / hear about Taker's loss and instinctively feel like they hosed up big time. Nobody likes the full-time main eventers and still fewer people would accept the streak being broken by a rising star ("why him?" etc). And given the WWE's history over the last 10 years or so, no way would they hand a hot prospect that kind of an opportunity. That's the sort of match that you're immediately associated with forever, no matter what you go on to do, or how badly you gently caress up.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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Can we stretch "return" to include Tito Ortiz coming to TNA? I mean we probably can't, but his reveal surely counts among the most entertaining television moments of my life.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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Bryan's or the original? With Bryan's, just like they've been hit about the chest and face with a wrecking ball. Cena sold it superbly the first time out

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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So the CM Punk / Jeff Hardy feud. I wasn't around for it. Was it well known by then that Hardy was pretty deep into addiction? It seems crazy to me that the WWE would not only vociferously deny rumors / facts, but incorporate it into a feud (and make him a face, no less). I understand that was a big point of friction and contributed to his leaving the company (refusing rehab obviously being the bigger factor). What's the deal?

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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You don't really have to be a nazi to be racist, you know. There's nothing terribly quaint about "spic it up", that's pretty straightforward as these things go.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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I preferred the ponderousness of No Mercy over the arcade-y speed of Smackdown. It gave the character models a feeling of weight and mass despite there being no physics engine to speak of, which made move impacts really satisfying (the sound design helped too). Most modern games made on Unreal Engine 3 don't have that kind of weight. By contrast, in Smackdown you could awkwardly launch opponents over the top rope in any number of ludicrous and glitchy-looking ways. If you hit a ground attack on an opponent while they were getting up they would jerkily slam back on the mat as though they'd just been hit with a powerbomb and bounce halfway across the ring. It was terrible.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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Supreme Allah posted:

I didn't forget about this, I'm still looking but any combination of words after 'CM punk promo' bring up pages of talk about his famous promos. I tried 'punk promo bumps match', 'punk promo long', and a bunch of crap. I'll pick it up later because I know it came up in a GDT when it happened.
I'm pretty sure that when Heyman came out pre-Summerslam '13 to introduce Lesnar for the first time, he and Punk got so grandiloquent that a match was cut. It might have been just a shortened match, but I can't recall exactly. They definitely went over time, though.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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MysticalMachineGun posted:

Dammit people, the puppets part of Vince's song has nothing to do with the previous line. It's "PUPPETS! Will find their place in line..."
Nah it's "better find a drat place in line"

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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Bigass Moth posted:

I definitely remember a gimmicked rubber sledgehammer at some point in the early 2000s that bent when HHH swung it.
One of my earliest wrestling memories is watching WCW when Flair's son (David?) came out to interfere in a match with a powder blue crowbar in the waistband of his tights. When he pulls it out it visibly bends and wobbles.

Regarding Ryder, didn't he have a "proving" promo with Bryan and Punk that he completely whiffed? It seems like Ryder's story isn't the tragedy so many burials are made out to be, he kind of half-dug the grave himself. He doesn't get much TV time at this point but afaik he's still an active low-card face on the house show circuit, getting most of his old spots in before jobbing to Ambrose or whoever.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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I imagine fake punching is much easier on an aging body (that ages harder than most) than chokeslamming dudes, at any rate.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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sticklefifer posted:

I've also been surprised that Erick Rowan of all people somehow works really well with Rey Mysterio, despite looking clumsy with nearly everyone else.
Still waiting for that feud to blow off. I still chuckle about that first Rey run in. Rowan just hates him so much and can't believe it.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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If the WWE scoffed at Ziggler at the top it's hard to imagine anyone in the current midcard going very far. Cesaro was able to super-hoss his way up but I'd call that an exception.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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MassRafTer posted:

People in the current midcard also don't go against WWE's wishes in the ring and on social media like Ziggler does.
I remember WWE brass' alleged decision that Ziggler would never draw not being connected to his various twitter-themed doghouse stints, maybe that recollection's false.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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I imagine they use kendo sticks because you can hit smack a dude with one and it sounds / looks pretty sick even if it's gimmicked. Safer than a chair, right?

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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A+ Freudian slip there

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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He also worked enough of a different style from his Dead Man gimmick that he kind of showed his limitations imo. As has been said, he had bad matches with Kurt Angle, which is challenging

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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I thought the premise was that Ric Flair injured Rhodes thus effectively putting him out of work (in kayfabe). So he's going to get what's his.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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It's pretty simple (A) I'm just like you, the working man, who is experiencing Hard Times (B) If you want to see Ric Flair get his rear end kicked, come pay to see it happen.

The ad-lib about Flair is not nearly as confusing as the man who died 10 or 12 years ago.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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According to No Mercy it's this totally intentional not-at-all-botched move https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D86u6FzuL5k

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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Luger might have had poo poo luck with booking shifts but he was always a bad promo and aside from the rack I don't remember his ringwork being too good either.

RacistGuidingLight posted:

It's unfair to compare the Attitude Era to anything else cuz the Attitude Era came at an absolute cultural dirge. There was nothing. Grunge and alternative music went as far as it would go and there was no more new Seinfeld. Nothing worth watching or talking about unless some mouth breather wants to bring up some dumb niche thing they liked at the time that no one wants to talk about. Like the Attitude Era of pro wrestling.
Nowaday, the internet is a bigger thing, and television has got some good poo poo again. Audiences have more choices, and they can watch everything they like later. On the internet.
Great abstract, where can I find the full text?

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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Adamle?

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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Ventura put over the face talent as a heel commentator, which JBL rarely does and heel Cole NEVER did. At MitB 2011 Cole just screamed NERRRRD whenever focus shifted to Bryan. Ventura would've objected to made-up unfair advantages but would also talk up ability and heart, etc etc. I was watching a steamboat/macho man bout the other day and that's basically what Ventura did, praise Steamboat while fearmongering about how unsafe his striking style was.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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sticklefifer posted:

Is Mark Henry injured yet again or is he just doing limited dates now? I feel like he could get away with the latter, or tagging with Big Show as an Attitude Era holdover Twin Towers or something.
I seem to recall Meltzer saying that a Rusev feud was in the cards at some point but who knows. Last time I remember seeing Henry (way back when the shield were still heel) he was gassed as hell not a minute into his US title challenge.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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Is there some reason that wrestlers in the 80's tended to use orchestral music in their intros, beyond the fact that they were probably cheap / free to use? I'd assume there isn't. I'd totally forgotten that Macho Man came out to "Pomp and Circumstance" and it does not make any loving sense to me.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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You gotta show the promos in the weeks leading up to it, though, particularly the one that the slaps call back to.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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I think that vastly overstates the importance of TNA at this or any point in its life. I wouldn't think it any better regarded than CZW in terms of salience to the mainstream. Most non-marks will probably be surprised TNA was still in business in 2014, if they remember it at all.

The obstacles to Vince's total supremacy are more profound and mundane than a shoestring fed filled with Kurt Angle and various over the hill ex-WWE midcarders. He has to contend with the stagnation of the mainstream business in general and his attempts to reinvigorate it through new media. The death of TNA means nothing. The smark alternative to WWE is clearly NJPW and Vince doesn't care to compete with him, nor should he. They're not in the same market.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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Reks' was basically just an inverted Attitude Adjustment, though.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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Tokyo Slutty Gal posted:

When matches can only end with finishers you need to start kicking out of them to have believable near falls. This is a problem for both WWE and NJPW right now.
I think with the right kind of pacing that can be mitigated. A creative finisher reversal into a pin, for example, protects the move while providing a good near-fall

Anyway, the protected status of a move doesn't really factor in the context of a good match as it's watched anyhow, so it matters little in general beyond a "linear championship"-style arbitrary ranking impulse

Basic Chunnel fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Aug 1, 2014

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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Pope Corky the IX posted:

What wrestler(s) did you absolutely despise as a kid that you now love and appreciate?
Kurt Angle and Triple H. Great heels

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Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

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Insane Clown Posse used to dub old Japanese deathmatches. It's how the ICP / Terry Funk story came about. Growing up in the midwest I knew a juggalo or two and I think we watched a tape once. I remember Cactus Jack was in it.

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