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RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Beer_Suitcase posted:

He fucks pigs?

Maryse is no pig, mon ami.

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RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Lone Rogue posted:

Maybe it's because I knew a backyard worker pretty well in Windsor who cut promos exactly like him and pretty much had the same physique (except he looked more like Sheamus) and the only difference is the backyard guy said more Fucks.

But to each their own. At least I have an idea why people love the guy. Thanks everyone.

If CHIKARA weren't a PG product, he probably would drop more F-Bombs, too. But either way, Kingston has one of the best promos in the business today, but what I think he does best is selling. Every single match it looks like he's in incredible pain.

Akuma vs Kingston back in 2009 was absolutely great.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Aesop Poprock posted:

I saw Eddie Kingston wrestle Arik Cannon back in '07 and I came away WAY more impressed with Arik Cannon. And saying that I bet I just lost all Wrestlehut cred ever.

Edit: Actually it was '06 in Chikara.

Cannon is one of the unsung heroes of the Independent circuit. He's been around for a long time, and is an incredible wrestler, but for one reason or another isn't getting the kind of recognition as other guys of similar size (Like Steen or Kingston) are getting.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


apsouthern posted:

I personally like Cannon, but I can almost guarantee someone will reply with two words: "trashbag pants"

He's also a ginger with a Mohawk, but that doesn't take away from his skills. Look at how successful the Kings of Wrestling are right now, and try and think back when Arik Canon was in that faction, too.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Red posted:

Who is this?:



Randy Orton, before he was Randy Orton.


Matlock posted:

Hiroshi Tanahashi

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Aesop Poprock posted:

Not a good argument. Icarus was in that group.

F.I.S.T. was just affiliated with them.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


MrBling posted:

I'm liking Icarus more and more now that he is actively embracing his horrible back tattoo and playing more to the crowd.

Icarus is the only heel in wrestling to get over just because he's so goddamn fun to make fun of. It's hard NOT to make fun of Icarus. It's just so much fun.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


MrBling posted:

He also gets bonus points for calling (one of) his finisher(s) The Blu-Ray because it is better than the Death Valley Driver (DVD).

That blew my mind, and I had no idea until Bryce pointed it out on commentary.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


CombineThresher posted:

Eh, Wrestlehut had a huge gay crush on him forever, but time has passed and he's still as boring in-ring as he ever was, and then you have WWE's stupid booking thrown on top of that. Orton has good chemistry with CM Punk and anyone else who's good enough to carry him, but that's about it.

Punk and Randy are the two "Adult" guys in the company, that appeal to the older audience. It makes sense that they had so much chemistry. I still expected much more out of that feud.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


DEAR RICHARD posted:

Randy Orton also looks like he stars in Adult Entertainment that caters to a certain community

Wrestling fans?

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


When you're one of the two most popular, over wrestlers with some of the highest merch sales, why would you take risks at all? Sometimes, fans just don't understand the business side of wrestling.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


CombineThresher posted:

You can have awesome matches without bumping all over the place if you know how to work. Randy's just boring.

He's over enough with the fans that he doesn't need to take the risk, or even impress anyone else. I don't enjoy watching him wrestle, but then again; I don't watch the WWE to be impressed by good wrestlers.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Endorph posted:

Seriously, if Chikara got a TV deal or marketing or something kids would love it.

Funny enough, HYDRA is on a children's show. It's some kind of cooking show, and it's every bit as amazing as you think it would be.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Look at this from a booking perspective. That match got Mankind over huge for being able to absorb an inhuman amount of punishment without quitting. It got Rocky over because he went above and beyond what it should have taken to put down any mortal man, and had to resort to a very heelish tactic to win the match.

Rock got over, Mankind got over. It told a fantastic story, and that was that.

It doesn't matter about the what-if's. Wrestling is scripted.

Grendels Dad posted:

I always though of I Quit-matches as being related to regular submission-matches kind of like Hell in a Cell is related to a regular cage-match. They share some basic rules and characteristics (a form of submission as humiliation and a no way out-factor, respectively), but the former is sort of an escalation of the latter, and was invented to avoid shenanigans like "can't lose via unconsciousness" or "people interfere despite cage, cage must be even cage-ier".
They're a more humiliating way of putting on a submission match. Rather than just tapping out, you're forced to vocally submit, in front of an audience of millions. Matches don't exactly have to end in a submission hold, but your have to beat an opponent so severely he cannot take anymore, or just scare him into quitting the match. The "I Quit" is to a submission match, as a Texas Death Match, is to a regular pinfall match. They're two extremes of a simple match variation.

e: Heeling. Heeling with chairs. Fixed a typo.

RealFoxy fucked around with this message at May 19, 2011 around 12:44

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Lamuella posted:

flameingblack, just so you know, reducing someone's argument to an all caps sentence filled with spelling errors doesn't make them look dumb.

I fixed it just for you, shugah.

Either way, it's a baffling argument to make in a scripted environment. I think there's a certain responsibility that referees have to make, including judgment calls on whether someone can compete or not, even in matches like I Quit. It's perfectly fine with me when a referee calls for a TKO in an MMA fight, I don't see why it's within a referee's right to do so in an I Quit match. Besides, I've seen I Quit matches end by managers throwing in the towel, so what's the big deal?

It just feels dumb to have to argue with someone over whether or not a referee should call a match before someone gets legitimate permanent damage (Even outside of Kayfabe)

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


crankdatbatman posted:

A ref really isn't able to end a match if one of the competitor's life is in danger? Is that a legitimate stipulation?

Also how in the blue hell could they pull off a spot where a guy can DDT another wrestler with his hands handcuffed behind his back?
Tommy Dreamer does it all the time, actually. But that doesn't mean that a handcuffed Mick Foley is going to be able to win an I Quit match.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


crankdatbatman posted:

Admittedly I have seen maybe two Tommy Dreamer matches my entire life, but it still boggles my mind. How could you pull that off without making it look really contrived?

He kicks them in the stomach and spends two minutes trying to wrap his arm around their head. I think he's done it to Raven at least twice.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Grendels Dad posted:

Well, in this case Rock kind of *tricked* the referee into believing that Mick Foley was still conscious.

Additionally, nobody would go the "Ask Him!"-route if they could just as well pummel their opponent into unconsciousness and win just as well. The aim is to humiliate your opponent by beating on him so much that he begs you to stop. Beating him so much that he can't say it anymore might make you look like a badass, but it goes against what the reason for the match actually is.
No, it just puts that guy over as a tough, stubborn son of a bitch. If the referee stops the match because they absolutely refuse to say I Quit, that doesn't make them lose face value at all. The way Rocky won, put them both over. It was smart booking so I'm not sure why there's any argument at all over that finish.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Grendels Dad posted:

I'm not sure either, but the ending wasn't "The Rock won because Mick Foley was unconscious". The ending was "The Rock won because he played a record while Foley was unconscious", which goes a long way in restoring some of Foley's credibility.

I think the disagreement is about whether the result would have been any different if the ref just went "Stop this match, Foley is done for, Rocky wins", and I'm saying this is the case.
If The referee had just ended the match, then Rock would have cut a different promo saying that he forced Mankind into a coma. Same result, but a slightly different promo on the RAW after.

But still, the original ending was the absolute best way to end that match. And that's what happened, I don't know why people are trying to fight over it.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Grendels Dad posted:

And Mick Foley would have reasons to demand a rematch, because he loved it so much how Rock beat him into a coma?
He would have had a reason to demand a re-match either way if he wanted to. There's two branching story outcomes with this alternative ref-stoppage ending, but they're both basically exactly the same.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Lamuella posted:

I don't think they're exactly the same. "I want a remach because I didn't really lose" is a stronger case to get behind than "I want a rematch because you beat me into unconsciousness". Of course, in both cases, as the former champ he'd get a rematch, but one has a better story behind it than the other.
That's what I mean, really. Either way, Mick Foley makes the argument that he never said "I Quit", but Rock gets over as a heel in an entirely different way, forcing him to get his heat in a promo, rather than the ending of a match.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Lamuella posted:

Has it ever been presented or implied that it would?

In the promotion for every I Quit match I've ever seen, there has been a line to the effect of "The only way to win is to make your opponent say "I Quit"". If you could also win by knocking your opponent unconscious, wouldn't they mention that?
That's generally the stipulation to a Last Man Standing/Texas Death Match. I would gander to say that a referee would be forced to stop a match in an I Quit when they go unconscious simply to save their lives.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Grendels Dad posted:

A Last Man Standing match is a match were you win by keeping your opponent down until the referee counts to ten. It doesn't matter if the opponent is unconscious, just dazed, or fixed to a ringpost with duct tape, apparently.

An I Quit match is a match where you win by making your opponent say I Quit into a microphone. Hypothetical unconsciousness to save anybody's lives do not factor into these requirements, I'm not sure why you keep insisting it does?
It doesn't matter if their unconscious, you just have to keep them down for ten seconds. Knocking them out though, would be grounds for legitimately winning a Last Man Standing match. There wouldn't be a need to continue the match any longer.

On the other hand, in an I Quit match, if it were called due to TKO, it's up to the referee's discretion, since there's never been an instance (That I recall) where the referee has ever had to make that decision, it's hypothetical. The Rock made the referee believe that Mankind was still conscious enough to scream "I Quit" which ended the match. That was what happened, there's no point in arguing these hypothetical What If's.

If the Rock was meant to win, he would have won either way. The story would have gone relatively the same. I don't know why this is a deal to anyone. Wrestling isn't real. If the WWE wanted a referee's decision to count as a legitimate win in an I Quit match, they can do whatever they please.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Lamuella posted:

I'm fairly sure that's the case for a Last Man Standing match, but an I Quit match isn't a Last Man Standing match, and has different rules and different victory conditions.

like I said before. the I Quit match is a weird one because it requires the loser to actually do something. Indeed, it's about the only match in which unconsciousness wouldn't mean your opponent could win unopposed. An unconscious guy can get pinned, can lie on the floor while his opponent escapes a cage or climbs a ladder, can be thrown over a top rope, off a scaffold, through a table, or into the gulf of Mexico, can be stripped of his/her evening gown or tuxedo or can be dressed in a weasel suit, but they can't say "I Quit". I can well understand why people think this is ridiculous, and it's one reason I don't like these kind of matches. Inventing other ways in which the match can be lost doesn't strike me as a good way of addressing the problem, though.
Bottom line is still this though, the WWE can book an I Quit match any way they want. But if they book Cena/Miz this weekend in a way that Miz beats Cena until he passes out, then it drat well better be the focal point to the feud for the next couple months.

The only reason they would book an I Quit match to go that way, is if it were part of a story. If not, then the WWE needs to fire creative.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Hirams Bitch posted:

Why would you want ways for the feud to continue for a couple months? This feud is bad and needs to be over.
I don't, I want Cena/Del Rio or Miz/Mysterio.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Bumble Bee posted:

If it matters at this point I asked the original question (has a face ever lost an I Quit match clean?) with the Rock and Mankind in my mind as the only time I can remember a face losing, and it not being a clean victory.
Gimmick matches were originally there to put the face over in a feud-ending match. Chavo beat Rey Mysterio in an I Quit match, I don't remember if it was cleanly or not. Here's a list of I Quit matches, you'll have to do a little bit of research to figure out who was the face/heel of the feud:
http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.c...on/iquit-match/

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


DEAR RICHARD posted:

Why don't Indy feds use floor mats? I can't imagine taking a bump to the outside onto a hard basketball court feeling good.
Every time someone in CHIKARA takes a dive to the floor, I wince. They usually have no padding at all, and there's almost always around eight or more dives per night.

Quack mentioned getting badly hurt while diving to the outside mid-last year, but he never mentioned why they don't bother to use pads. I do remember listening to the R&F of WCW and the reason they took away mats is because it looked "Unrealistic"

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Karmine posted:

Probably my two favorite things in the world are comedy and wrestling. Can someone point me in the direction of some of the funniest matches in wrestling history?

e: and I don't mean in a "so bad it's funny" kind of way. I mean straight up comedy wrestling.
KANA vs Kikutaro - Kikutaro is a masked comedy wrestler from Japan. He tries to grope KANA the entire match. Kana corpses. A lot. Kana. He tries to grope Kana.

Sanshiro Takagi vs Great Sasuke (DDT PRO) - Weapon's Battle Royal. Every minute, a new weapon is brought out. Ranging from chairs, to a chick with a whip, the wrestler's wives, a barrel. Great Sasuke does not disappoint, the dude is out of his loving mind.

The F1rst Family vs F.I.S.T. (CHIKARA, King of Trios 2009) - Bryce Remsburg is a boss.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


apsouthern posted:

Gavin was Louden Noxious for quite a while in CHIKARA as well, then came back one day having swapped his suit for leather trousers and changed his name to Gavin Loudspeaker and started singing songs before shows
He got electrocuted with Dasher Hatfield on a Podcast-a-go-go. Loudan reverted back to "A past personality" in Loudspeaker, Dasher was glitching out and reverted to past Create-a-Wrestler gimmicks.

It was "solved" when Player Uno blew out Create-a-Wrestler's cartridge.

So weird to remember Dasher as CAW.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Why don't they just show the regular entrance in full screen, and a smaller, picture-in-picture of the wrestling ring until the Superstar gets to the ring?

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Alex_OA posted:

Can someone give me a quick explanation of the bag making GBS threads story?
Randy Orton was being immature and poo poo in a model's bag.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Ultramantis Black is still pretty mysterious. I know of only one picture of him unmasked. It seems like he just strolls around the Philly area, in mask and character.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Manic_Misanthrope posted:

And when he doesn't his most notable trait (his tattoos) are covered up so he probably just looks like a normal guy, until he breaks out the voice. And even then he might be a voice actor so he can change his voice at whim.
The rumor mill says he was once a professional pitcher for a Baseball team, but had to retire because he had hurt his arm. We had pictures of the guy we thought was him, but at the time I hadn't uncovered the maskless UMB picture. I don't quite remember if it was the same person or not.

Regardless, UMB's secret is pretty safe. He's one of the very few guys that people love for the character. He is very handsome, though.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Lone Goat posted:

Every time I see one of his promos on youtube I think "man this guy has a GREAT set of teeth."
He goes to the same dentist as David Grohl.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Alastor_the_Stylish posted:

I believe I've seen the same one. It was a bunch of wrestlers with no masks, and figuring it out could be a bit of a chore but Mantis is definitely the cute one (after Bryce of course).
I know who every single person in the picture is, I even marked it. Then it got passed around the internet. Whoops.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


CombineThresher posted:

Relatedly, I don't think I've ever seen Super Dragon without his mask.
He had a mask vs mask match against Taru some time ago, where Taru ripped his mask almost completely off, and you could see his whole face clearly.

He is truly, the blackest man in professional wrestling.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


I bought the DVD and expected to see some awesome matches, but by the end of the first disc I was so sick of seeing Hulk Hogan I just quit watching it.

Just like the old days.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


PoO3 posted:

thats actually an ankle lock, not a full nelson heh. still funny though.
That's actually an Octopussy stretch.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


bobkatt013 posted:

I thought that Pillman was able to trick Bischoff out of his contract because he thought it was a shoot and then he started taking bids.
Pillman was able to trick Bischoff out of his contract to make people think it was legit. I'm not sure what people what people he was trying to trick though, because this was before the internet was around, and by the time it would have showed up in a magazine, it would probably have been over with anyway

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RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


Lone Rogue posted:

I remember the big press conference for the Pillman signing. Vince was in love with big press conferences at the time. There was this crazy aura to Pillman when I was a kid, I felt like he was a really big deal and I wasn't seeing even a fraction of what he was capable of. Of course, the reason I wasn't seeing that was because I never watched him in WCW and now he was a fraction of the wrestler he once was
SMASH does a press confrence every single month, which is amazing even though I don't know hardly any Japanese. Most of the time, it's Syuri drawing pictures, Tajiri pointing at pictures/loving with Kana, or Kana being smug about something.

But they're still loving great, and it makes every single SMASH event seem incredibly important.

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