Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«82 »
  • Post
  • Reply
MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


tzirean posted:

It's also telling that if you walk up to anybody involved in the Mankind/Undertaker Hell in a Cell, Mick and 'Taker included, and start raving about the match being great, they'll look at you like you're a mental patient and maybe even start backing away slowly. The spectacle was incredible, sure, but the match, such as it was, sucked a dick. And the spectacle, as you point out, is not reproducible; it was a result of one planned spot, then a whole lot of unplanned poo poo and Mick Foley being, frankly, too loving stupid and concussed to know when he needed to stop.

I imagine if you went up to Undertaker and said that he would say "Of course, I won" then vanish in a cloud of smoke.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


LividLiquid posted:

Every wrestling announcer in history does this and it drives me nuts. No, Mr. Schiavone. No. Nobody is actually hanging from the loving rafters.

It wouldn't drive me so nuts if it wasn't the EXACT OPPOSITE of what they meant.

Sting was hanging from the rafters every week on Nitro.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Wow, PWU can't even run the Arena anymore.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


triplexpac posted:

I won an autographed Raven card from his Twitter. It was a TNA trading card

Did you win it for predicting how many times he'd use the word tremendous in a given week?

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


freeranger posted:

Can someone explain a WCW moment to me.

Halloween Havoc, not sure what year, Hogan vs Sting(c). Firstly Hogan is meant to come out first, doesn't, then they announce Sting and he comes out, so they then have to once again announce Hogan, and finally he comes out, but not in his ring gear.

Hogan gets into the ring, has words with Sting and the ref, then lays down, and let's Sting pin him. Crowd boo's the hell out of it.

What the hell was that all about? Typical hogan BS? Typical WCW?

This was the first PPV Russo booked in WCW. He was trying to do a shoot angle, because that is all he knows how to do.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Yellowjacket Hawky posted:

I thought that happened with Jeff Jarrett? You're telling me that happened TWICE with Hulk Hogan?

Yes, we are. He also re-created the Montreal Screwjob at Starrcade 99! (Vince Russo that is.)

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


I'm guessing the strange errors were parts inspired by RD rather than Alvarez who tends to have his poo poo together.

Well, his memory is his weak spot, but, how could that matter here?

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


KungFu Grip posted:

Ricky the Dragon Steamboat. From all I can remember has been face his whole career.

But lets wait and see how long it takes for me to be proven wrong.

Steamboat was turning heel in TNA in 2002, but they stopped using him before he fully turned.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Justice Grieves posted:

Oddities feuded with The Bushwhackers over and over. It was really lame because there were 4 or 5 Oddities, two bushwhackers, and the Bushwackers always lost. It was frankly boring as hell.

Am I insane, or did this never, ever happen?

Unless you are confusing the Headbangers and the Bushwhackers.

If it did happen someone please post videos, but I cannot believe it happened.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


grody but still def posted:

it took him years to realize royce = hoyce.

Royce Gracie fight once in UFC during Bruce Buffer's tenure..

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


grody but still def posted:

yeah cuz he's not a relevant figure in the history of mma at all

I don't remember seeing Bruce Buffer talk about Royce Gracie that often.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


apsouthern posted:

Weird question maybe, but for the folks that have attended WWE house shows - are they not usually in arenas.

I found this picture on a random image feed, and as far as I can see it's Ziggler vs Morrison in what appears to be a Chikara-size venue, rather than the usual WWE-size arena. Can anyone cast any light on this? I thought it might have been something like OVW or FCW but the turnbuckle pads have the WWE logo on them...



Many Smackdown house shows are run in 2-3,000 seat buildings. That is a much bigger building than the smaller CHIKARA venues.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Professor Funk posted:

This may be a really dumb question, I'm not sure, but here it goes.


Every time there is a really close two count, I find myself wondering what would happen if the ref accidentally, very noticeably, counted to three, or if a performer messed up and didn't kick up in time. Have there been any matches where something like that has happened? What was the crowd reaction like?

Edit: I'm sure this has happened, many times. I'm mainly curious what the crowd reaction is like, how they handle it, etc.

Generally the ref just doesn't count 3 unless the guy is completely out cold and there is a late kickout.

However, in ECW Heyman gave a mandate that after some non kickouts where the ref looked stupid that the refs should count pinfalls as a shoot, and a couple house show matches ended because of a late kickout.

When Vince gave the mandate that refs call matches as if they were a shoot, there were a couple of incidents on house shows where the pinfall was counted despite that not being the finish. Last year on ECW Morrison got a concussion and was pinned and the ref counted 3 despite it not being the finish, and of course despite being told to do that he was fired soon after.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


maniacripper posted:

Poor France, WWE won't even give them a women's title change

They did give them an entire gimmick... until they moved them to Quebec.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


CM Junk posted:

Here's a thought: Is Goldberg HOF material? He was a pretty big draw back in his day, and he made at least some sort of a splash in his time in WWE. On the other hand, he was the biggest self-mark this side of Bret Hart, and I'm not really sure what terms he's on with Vince nowadays.

Hall of Fame, in terms of being one of the greatest in the sport who was a long term draw, and either a great worker or promo? No. He was a "pretty big draw" for 8 months, and "very over" for about 3 years spread from 98 to 2003.

There's no criteria for the WWE Hall of Fame other than Vince's whims and what city they are in and hence who will draw a crowd, so if they run WM in Atlanta Goldberg has a shot. But there's no reason for him to be in any Hall of Fame where there's actual meaningful voting on who gets in.

As for guys like Arn, they'll get in eventually. They need to spread people out.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Judakel posted:

I am not sure how they reacted to Flair live, but on the board they were less than enthusiastic. I would say just about anyone who was seen as part of the big companies would be booed to some degree, but I don't think anyone would be booed out of the building. Let's face it, even those smug little cunts would mark for a Stone Cold Steve Austin or Hulk Hogan showing up out of nowhere and cutting a promo or doing a run-in.

Flair always got tremendous reactions at live ROH shows.

Cena, Batista and HHH would be booed out of the building.

HBK and Jericho would be loved.

Undertaker would probably get a great reaction.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


FishBulb posted:

Hes good at psychology and pacing a match but I don't know if his style would really wow ROH fans at a ring level. I mean, like I said, I like the guy but its pretty different style than they are used to.

They would still pop for him for crazy hough just because hes the loving Undertaker.

HBK vs Undertaker from WM 25 had a lot in common with big move Japanese wrestling that many ROH workers have been influenced by. He'd do fine.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Edit: poo poo, I was beaten because I didn't realize there was another page. And I so thought I was going to point out WCW 99-2000 idiocy first

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


The Croc posted:

So in assesing my post I got the wrestler name wrong and the valet wrong.

I suck

You wouldn't be wrong in thinking that a character who was around the same time as Vince Russo would have probably been named The Pianist and everyone would snicker how that sounds like penis.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Satire Forum Mom posted:

Are there any shoot interviews with Japanese wrestlers, like Kobashi/Misawa/Liger/etc? Preferably ones translated into English. I would love to hear what they have to say.

ROH did one with Liger in 2004. All of their shoots are discounted to 5 bucks pretty often. It is kind of basic, don't expect the same kind of shoot from Liger that you'd get from Joe and Punk or Cornette.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Paul Revere 3000 posted:

Final Countdown is the most overrated 80s song.

How? No one lists it as a "good" song, and Danielson picked it after he saw it on a list of "The fifty worst songs ever" list.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


PeteRoseHaircut posted:

Can we once and for all get a consensus definition of X-Pac Heat? I was browsing around some awful forum earlier and someone said that Vickie had X-Pac Heat.

X-Pac Heat: The sensation or sensations Chyna experienced during sexual intercourse with Sean Waltman.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


atamarav posted:

I was debating asking this in the ROH thread but I figure this thread is probably a better fit.

I loved the Homicide title chase storyline throughout the last half of 2006, culminating with his big emotional win at Final Battle 2006. My question is why is it that he had such a ridiculously short title reign right after?

I figured him being in TNA with the upcoming PPV deal had something to do with it, I just want to make sure. It just seems weird to devote that much time and energy to a storyline and have it peter off like that almost immediately.

The plan was supposed to be:

Homicide wins the belt, Danielson wins it back at WM Weekend 2007, so a 3 month reign. Danielson got hurt in August, so when Morishima was over Gabe got the idea to book Morishima as ROH champion instead.

The upcoming PPV deal probably didn't have a lot to do with it, since I don't think those plans developed until October of 06, and they weren't for sure until well after plans were in place. I'm sure they didn't want to keep the belt on a TNA guy for too long, but Homicide just wasn't the guy to get a long reign anyway. He had just been in ROH so long and had so many matches with all the top stars and wasn't the dynamic worker Danielson is where he can have tons of matches with everyone and have them feel fresh.

So yeah, it was about the chase, not the reign since if he held it too long he might be exposed. And considering how hyper-critical ROH marks were about his defenses, it is probably true.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Jagtpanther posted:

What did Savage do post 1997 in WCW? (Macho Madness, Keibler, Slapping women?)

What did Lex Luger do post 1997 in WCW? (super Face vs. nWo?)

Macho: Age in the Cage II vs Hogan, wearing wacky coats, bringing in Gorgeous George, and... uh..

Luger: Joined the Wolfpac, Turned on Sting, Pillmanized a bunch of arms, teamed with Buff Bagwell.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Jerusalem posted:

Oh BOY was it bad!

Let me put it this way, as a kid you might have watched the unstoppable force of The Ultimate Warrior meet the Immovable Object of Hulkamania. You may have been enthralled and wondered what would happen if they ever met again.

If you THEN thought,"I hope that they have a lovely match and use it give Hogan's boring, bald no-name brother a push that will never go anywhere because he's a useless waste of space!" then congratulations, you are WCW's Head Booker from 1998.

Horace actually got hired by WWF late in Hulk's run there. He was "The Predator" in 1993, but Hogan left soon after his debut, so Vince shipped him back to Japan to have fun in death matches.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


ColeM posted:

And it was so bad that they went on longer than originally scheduled and the satellite companies actually cut off service at the beginning of a main event match that people really wanted to see: DDP vs Goldberg for the World title.

Then WCW thought they would give away the full match for free on Nitro to appease fans. It ended up pissing them off even more and WCW had to refund millions of revenue back to them. This would continue on for what we would call the steep decline of WCW.

No, Bischoff made the call to have the PPV go longer as one of his "ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN" ideas and tried to alert the PPV companies... but some of them couldn't keep the PPV on longer. The refunds were a drop in the bucket in 1998 when they made 60 million in profit.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


PlasticSpoon posted:

Okay, what the gently caress was up with the "Yettay" At Halloween Havoc. And who was it?

Ron Reese, later of Raven's Flock fame.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Putting a guy over with a back and forth match is a really difficult thing to achieve. It happens, when Angle and Edge met at Backlash and Edge clearly wasn't at Angle's level, but coming close to beating him in a great match made Edge look like more than just a mid carder.

Recently we had TNA try to do this with Matt Morgan and WWE do this on ECW.

I think the Matt Morgan thing was an utter failure. A. He had two losses to Angle already in singles matches. But I think another factor is important:

B. He had just been in two title matches. Two title matches he really didn't earn. So, the fans aren't going to see him as a hungry young up and comer, he's more like a big goof who is getting over pushed and loses alot. You can't come down from title matches and lose in a match that is supposed to elevate you. It doesn't work that way.

Now with ECW, they've had varying success.

I think the first Christian/Ryder match helped. The second probably helped too, but the third did not. It made it clear that the story is Regal vs Christian, not Ryder vs Christian. So if Ryder is losing to Christian, he's losing to a guy who isn't really even that concerned with him, because his main nemesis seems to be Regal.

With Yoshi Tatsu, the match with Christian probably helped him a lot, because Christian had a lot of focus on him, although as more of a mentor than as a rival, which helps in this case. Because Christian built up his mentee, and said he was the worthy challenger, not Regal, and he beat Regal. Then by having a competitive match with Christian, he seems to justify what Christian is saying and he seems like the real deal.

Now, they have to follow up on this and keep giving him wins. He can't go and start losing to Zeke, Koslov and anyone else regularly. With ECW's small roster, that is going to be tough.

But the main thing with this formula is, the up and comer needs to be clearly below the other guy's level, and he can't be treated as just another guy afterwards. If you do that, he actually gets elevated.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


I have never seen the ad personally, but back in 99 WCW's lovely ad campaign was a major topic of conversation on the Prodigy BB, and something close to that ad was discussed quite a bit.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


LividLiquid posted:

I'm well aware. And I'm calling bullshit. This ad doesn't exist and never happened. Nobody's ever seen a picture of it. Nobody remembers it. The only evidence that it ever happened is not even Meltzer, but a thread full of quotes ATTRIBUTED to Meltzer. It's reached legend status and I've never seen anybody question its authenticity before.

The thing doesn't exist. It never happened.

Not unless somebody has pictures that aren't 'shopped.

In 7 years the Observer back issues will be up to 99 and we can know for sure!

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


LividLiquid posted:

It was. But take those quotes with a bowl of salt. Many of them are straight-up made-up.



Your evidence being?

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


CM Junk posted:

LL, your argument is that even though people appear to be quoting a publication that talks about a newspaper ad that was placed AT THE TIME OF SAID PUBLICATION, that it's all been made up and someone just invented this poo poo eleven years ago just because people can't seem to pull up the Observer or the ad itself?

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

Especially involving a 10 year old ad that was printed in a periodical most Attitude era fans weren't reading in a time period where far less people had scanners or digital cameras and the IWC was MUCH smaller than it is today.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Fallon posted:

I remember when Raw threads used to crash GBS, back in 2000 (I got banned in 2002 before I got this account)

The forums used to crash a lot more in 2000 and 2001 and membership here wasn't nearly what it was today. It had more to do with SA and wrestling sites having lovely servers that couldn't handle the traffic.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


It was also more segregated. You had people who just used the AOL BBs, the Prodigy BBs and stuff like that.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Supreme Allah posted:


Come on man, by the time Sept 11th happened 01 the entire country was dealing with it online. If we were talking 94-95, I'd agree, but by 99-2000, everyone had a drat PC and they were using it to discuss how overrated The Rock is.

No, they didn't.

In 1999 about 40% of American households had internet access. This jumped to 60% by 2001, and 70% by 2005.

Edit: And if you buy into the idea that wrestling fans are uneducated, keep in mind that there is a correlation between internet usage and level of education.

MassRafTer fucked around with this message at Nov 5, 2009 around 00:26

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


And we aren't talking about 99/00. We are talking specifically about the Spring of 1999 when this happened. Yes things started to explode during this period, but in early 99 the internet wrestling scene was a lot more primitive than it was today.

And more specifically, we are talking about WCW in the Spring of 99, when their fanbase made up less than one third of the total wrestling fan base.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Ktik posted:

They're talking about an ad in a magazine promoting WCW that ran once and no one can ever remember seeing it, no pictures of it exist, only a comment in a thread on another forum years later. A one time thing only one person claims to have seen that everyone else is quoting as a fact.

No, we're talking about a quote from a guy who was supposedly going through old Observers and transcribing hilarious WCW quotes. He wasn't trying to start a rumor about a loving ad, he posted hundreds of quotes. Hundreds. So if he made it up, he put it in with a bunch of legitimate quotes and put a lot of effort in.

Hell, if people want I'll loving call WOR the next time they take calls and ask Dave himself. Or hell, I'll email Scotsman and ask if he has Observers from 1999 since he bought yearly bundles of a few years. But if Dave did actually write that, there's a good chance he still has a copy of the ad since he saves hard copies of EVERYTHING printed about wrestling.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Rusty Shackelford posted:

Post proof or he didn't say that.

Should we start posting scans of old Observers now?

Dave Meltzer called Zane Bresloff the guy who promoted WWF live events while working on a story on WM 3 years later. He asked if the 93,000 figure was accurate. Bresloff said no, and that it was 78,000 with 2,000 of those being comps. He later faxed Meltzer receipts from the building. Meltzer has always been very consistent about this and cites him as the source everytime he's asked.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Rusty Shackelford posted:

You're quoting some form of the same thing that I'm quoting here.


http://www.wrestleview.com/faq/?article=wwe

That's tertiary evidence, and if you have scans of the Observers, that would probably solve several questions.

No, I am posting what Dave Meltzer says EVERY TIME someone calls into Wrestling Observer Radio and asks this question. Seriously. It has come up a lot, he answers the same thing each time. He's used Bresloff as a source on his WCW articles as well since Bresloff went on to work for WCW so he doesn't just cite him on this.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Jerusalem posted:

My question is how come Dave Meltzer and 1980s Vince McMahon are the same person?

Because Hulk Hogan taught them both everything he knows about the business.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«82 »