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LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Pie The Grand posted:

Another broken piece of Sid's body (this time, it was his heart).
I don't know if these are connected, but the interest seemed to stop right around the time he was a guest on the Law and got drunk as hell.

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LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

grody but still def posted:

loved his constant misuse of the word literally.
Every wrestling announcer in history does this and it drives me nuts. No, Mr. Schiavone. No. Nobody is actually hanging from the loving rafters.

It wouldn't drive me so nuts if it wasn't the EXACT OPPOSITE of what they meant.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

FishBulb posted:

Its not like this is limited to wrestling announcers, pretty much 80% of the population does this.
80% of the population aren't in broadcasting. It's inexcusable.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

bradzilla posted:

Ok, so this is obviously a Hogan quote, but where exactly does this come from?
The first time I think he said it was when he was talking to Horace in WCW.

"What's your name?"
"Horace Boulder."
"No. Shoot with this thing, brother!"
"Horace... Hogan!" Which is hilarious considering Hogan is a worked last name.

After that, he kept saying "And that's a shoot, brother." for emphasis in promos.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

I remember a while back, somebody posted a clip of Stephanie McMahon ripping off Sable's top in a parking garage.

This was on Smackdown, a taped show, and was a vinette, also pre-taped. How the hell did Rena Mero's boobies make it to air?

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

You also won't hear the nWo theme. They replace it with generic poo poo that sounds nothing at all like the original.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

freeranger posted:

What the hell was that all about? Typical hogan BS? Typical WCW?
RUSSO!

His first WCW pay-per-view. Happy? No? Russo, as others have said, made no less than three WCW pay-per-view matches end in screwjob victories trying to recreate Montreal.

The last time he did it he actually managed to kick Hulk Hogan off of television for the better part of three years, so I don't know if the ends justified the means, but at least some good came out of it.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

tzirean posted:

The way that book makes it possible to understand so much of WCW's booking, and the job it does explaining at least the concepts behind the un-understandable parts, makes it a miracle of modern literature.
That book is also full of glaring inaccuracies. I have old Nitros on tape that they talk about and poo poo happens very, very differently on more-than-a-few instances.

I enjoyed the read, but it's hardly a trustworthy source.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

CombineThresher posted:

Plus, as much as I hate to agree with Kevin Nash, WCW's parent company going down the shitter had way more to do with the death of WCW than anyone's booking did. Russo did make their TV unwatchable from pretty much the moment he got the book, though.
Nash says this over and over again and insists that the book blames him for killing WCW, when the book blames the only man who actually did, Jamie Kellner.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

It also had the problem where it would explain some very simple concepts of wrestling, implying it wasn't written for smarts, but then it would mention other things that even most smarks don't know about and act like they're common knowledge.

The book had no idea who it was trying to reach.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Nope. I've only read Death of WCW. As I said before, though, I loved the book. It just bugged me sometimes.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Jerusalem posted:

I will provide an alternative, though I suspect there'll be a larger than usual trainwreck audience for the PPV this month.
I'm so sorry.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Supreme Allah posted:

I remember the EMT being a fat black woman for some reason
And I remember a fat, toothless white woman.

Can ya feel yah toes?

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

KungFu Grip posted:

Wasn't Nash supposed to face someone at WM18 too but pulled the, I'm sick/injured card?
Nope. He did a run-in.

Edit: Looked it up. He was in Hall's corner, basically making it a handicap match.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

As with WCW, Vince killed the nWo and didn't let them get any heat at all and he did it almost right away.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

grody but still def posted:

how DID the nwo die in wcw?
They never did. They just stopped being around after three years the first time and after about six months the second.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Jerusalem posted:

Leaving the nWo with a lifetime victory/comeuppance ratio of 452,765 to 2.
While this is true, I don't see how it was good for business to bring in Hall, Nash and Hogan and not actually play the angle out.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Jerusalem posted:

It was a victim of circumstance, Nash got injured, Hall got drunk(er) and Hogan hit the nostalgic revitalization zone and drunk deep of those heady waters.
I maintain that the proper response is to turn them babyface and keep Hogan with them, then bring in Steiner to be the third man.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Captain Charisma posted:

Vince should just do this with every failed angle. It'd be like The Gong Show. They'd have some segment, he'd come out and just say "Alright, get out of here, you're done."
There was a time, when TNA was still awesome, when Jim Cornette did exactly this. He set up a podium and just went all, "Team Canada?" Snapped his fingers and said, "Gone."

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Jerusalem posted:

I honestly, genuinely enjoyed when Eric Bischoff would come out all exasparated on RAW and say,"What are you doing? What is this? You're boring me! You're BORING ME! I'm giving you exactly.... 3 Minutes .... to impress me."
It's incredibly frustrating to go through periods of wrestling where the folks making the decisions CLEARLY know what isn't working and change it or kill it, only to be exposed to years of ignorance after the fact.

Three minute warning needs to come back.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Ziggy Tsardust posted:

In that case, gimme a sixpack and a couple of bags of skittles.
Skittlebrau reference in my wrestling questions thread. In response to Jerusalem no less.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Magic_Ceiling_Fan posted:

Did anyone backstage hate Sting in the WCW days? I always thought of him as WCWs Undertaker. He was with them through thick and thin, and all kinds of bullshit.
A lot of people felt he'd lost his love of the business and was phoning it in. I never saw this on television, so it made absolutely no sense to me. The guy put on some fantastic matches all the way to WCW's death.

Lance Storm also said that during the period where people were giving Sting poo poo about this, on a tour in Austrailia, Sting was in the ring by himself before a show trying to work out spots. Lance asked him what was up. Sting told him he was frustrated with himself because he wasn't getting the guy he was feuding with over. (It may have been Vampiro. I don't remember.) So there he was, hours before the show, thinking up spots by himself.

Sting didn't get the credit he deserved.

Thorias posted:

And to me, the definition of a Mark is pretty much anyone who isn't knowledgable at all about stuff behind the scenes and such. So all of you in this thread claiming to be marks because of things like Shawn/Taker are wrong, since you still know its fake, just because you marked out for a little bit doesn't make you a mark.
Mark is also used as a term of appreciation. Like if Stone Cold said he was a mark for Benoit.

Marking out is different. It's sort of when you forget all about backstage crap and just enjoy the product like you did before you wised up.

Mark and Smark are used so many ways by so many people in often contradictory ways. It's an awful lot like emo or steampunk that way.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Minges posted:

Ok, I'll bite. I was a little Stinger growing up and I still want an example for every year after 1995. I don't buy it.
One example for every year? I can come pretty close. In 1996 I was a pretty heavy mark so every match with Sting seemed awesome at the time and in 1997 he only wrestled one match that was ruined by Hogan's bullshit.

1998 he had an awesome match with The Giant over control of their Tag Titles at Great American Bash, then an excellent match with Goldberg in the main-event of a Nitro that saw Sting almost ending Goldberg's streak after some really kickass back-and-forth until Hogan ran in and gave the win to Goldberg. He had a match with Bret Hart the Nitro after Hart turned heel on him that went all around the arena. Then there was the blowoff match with Hart which was also great. He was gone for the rest of the year. This is probably my most memorable year for Sting matches.

When he returned in 1999, his second match back was his awesome match with DDP where he won the title for an hour-and-a-half.

In 2000, he had a kickass with Scott Steiner.

2001 was the year of the final Flair/Sting match, so there's that.

There's more, but those are the ones I still remember off the top of my head. He was mostly used in tags and such on Nitro. Russo booking killed anybody's ability to have a good match throughout a lot of the end of 1999 and some of mid-to-late 2000. All the same, whenever he got in the ring he always entertained me and never seemed lazy or phoning it in.

The guy did a thumbtack bump two years ago, for gently caress's sake. How can people accuse him of no longer caring?

Jerusalem posted:

Amusingly, wasn't the reason for that long build-up because Sting had fulfilled his contractually obligated number of matches per year really early and they would have to pay him extra money for every match he had after that point?
I've never heard of this, but it doesn't make much sense. When was the last time Bischoff cared how much money he spent on top talent? And Sting only wrestled one match that whole year.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Magic_Ceiling_Fan posted:

On that note, I have another question about Sting. Did he wrestle at house shows during 1997?
Only near the end. With Hogan.

Like others have said, aside from the Outsiders, no big names ever made towns. Even the Outsiders didn't make them often.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Strenuous Manflurry posted:

All this WCW talk is reminding me of the story where WCW wanted to build the return of Rick Steiner on TV (forgive me if I'm thinking someone else, but I think it was Rick), and the day of the show the people in charge forgot to tell Rick to be there.
Happened with Flair, too. Then they chartered him a plane and didn't use him when he got there.

The funny thing is, they'd fly in shitloads of undercarders they never used on television every single week.

They wasted sooooooo much money.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Jesus and CM Punk discuss the finer points of transubstantiation.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Nitro set the precedent of big stars facing one-another on television to begin wtih. Before Nitro, you'd get a known star fighting a jobber on television mixed with interviews from main-eventers. This is both good and bad. It led to the most screwjob finishes in wrestling since Dusty got the book.

Then they predicated title changes on weekly television. Something the fans LOVED at the time and hate now, since fans, for some retarded reason, hate it when companies give away anything good on television. Even when it only happens twice a year.

Nothing I've said is universal, but vocal.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

jeffersonlives posted:

Changing World titles on television is generally a terrible idea and was one of the things that led to the demise of WCW, by the way.
Never changing the world titles on television sends the message to your fans that no title match not on pay-per-view matters and that there will never be surprises on television.

Nobody likes the way the WCW title was handled during Russo's runs, but to say that title changes should never happen on television is ridiculous.

jeffersonlives posted:

No sane company would have given the Luger and Goldberg title wins over Hogan away for free, and those were in a time period where they were moving around the title less than WWE does now.
Considering they were doing incredible ratings and STILL doing insane buyrates, I'd say there's some give to this statement.

There's a balance. You can have a few title changes a year on television, but you need to pick which changes very carefully. It's especially effective if a beloved babyface loses the title to a heel and actually helps build your pay-per-view.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

jeffersonlives posted:

Repeatedly giving away PPV-caliber matches and title changes on free TV makes people not buy the B-show PPVs because the PPVs are just a three-hour RAW.
You're making a straw man here. Nobody's saying it should happen repeatedly. I actually went out of my way to say it should only happen a few times a year.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Slick was a great heel ref with Steiner.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

WeaselWeaz posted:

I remember this being the reason that got leaked, that Vince doesn't want the focus off the superstars. Vince changes his mind on a daily basis, though. Remember when he wanted it more serious, with refs calling matches as a shoot?
Yeah, and then he fired a guy for doing it.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Anybody who was a prominent enough figure is eventually going to make it. They're already running out of big stars to induct. Is Rock in yet? Because he's the last huge inactive star I can think of who isn't in.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

grody but still def posted:

lemme put it this way: no
They did. Much like Medusa, Rhino, Christian and all other folks who badmouth WWE on camera, as long as you don't go out of your way to do it OFF camera, Vince doesn't seem to mind. Even then, if you ever made him a serious amount of cash, all is forgiven.

I don't like Vince McMahon, but at least he understands that reading from a script is reading from a script.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Fallon posted:

Nobody bothered to copyright it until WWE did, so it's the Dudley's own fault, they should have done it themselves.
I don't think you understand how copyright works or the difference between it and trademark.

The only reason they got away with using the gimmick in the WWF before the buyout was that Paul just didn't care. If you come up with a gimmick in any fed, it's their intellectual property.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

KungFu Grip posted:

Pretty sure the deal with WWE and ECW was when they bought out ECW they also got all their intellectual property too, that's how they were able to use the Dudley name in WWF(all 3 of them) but once they left WWE they had to go by Brother [insert name].
You're forgetting the period of a couple of years where ECW technically owned the Dudley name, but the Dudley Boyz still used it in the WWF.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

When was the last time, aside from Jericho, somebody actually followed up their heel turn with a reasonable explanation?

I remember Christian turning on Sting having a pretty good one, but other than that I can think of none.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Captain Charisma posted:

Do you guys really have that short a memory? Orton failed as a face because he was set up to fail. The smart way to have him turn would have him continue to be heel for months as HHH said he was cool with it but secretly was filled with rage and jealousy, leading to the WM main event.
It was the same deal with the nWo. Anybody who left the nWo by hitting a move on a member and turning face pretty much succeeded. (Page, Sting, Giant.) Anybody who was beaten down by the faction did not. (VK Wallstreet, The Nasty Boys, Scott Hall, Buff Bagwell.)

Evolution turned Orton face by having Evolution turn on him, which failed. They turned Batista face by having him thumbs down and powerbomb HHH. That worked.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Sting was considering going to WWE when the takeover happened. He said what finally made his decision for him was when Booker T. debuted and The Rock asked who he was an treated him like a jobber.

He didn't need the money and didn't trust Vince not to blow it. Then Vince blew it big with Nash, Goldberg and DDP and there was really no chance.

They're on friendly terms, so he'll likely get a Hall of Fame nod and a DVD when he's done with TNA.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Supreme Allah posted:

You're the WCW champion sucker?
Who in the blue hell... are you?

In any case, even if it's not true, it's what Sting said.

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LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

BITCOIN BATMAN

Jerusalem posted:

We're not talking about actual writers here, we're talking about the people who spend 20 years unemployed because they classify themselves as "writers" while the only thing they produce is a giant pile of form rejection letters.
gently caress yes. I've been writing for fifteen years and I've never once called myself a writer.

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