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Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


One year for King of Trios, they're doing the gag where they choose a mystery partner out of a hat and the first couple aren't there. One of the names selected is Johnny Cashmere. Instead of the ref running into the back, he instead runs over to the bathroom to check for him there.

What's the story behind this joke?

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Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Ah. I was expecting that he Sid'd his pants during a match or something, but that makes more sense.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


nasboat posted:

I watched way more of that video than I'd like to admit

and just as I was ready to turn it off, dude had to wrestle both red Yokozuna and purple Yokozuna at the same time whaaaaaaaat

If you think that's crazy, you should see the endings. They include Michaels going into politics and Bam Bam Bigelow burning down the arena and killing everybody in it.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Ghostpilot posted:

Has there been a wrestler that has gone on record about hating a gimmick that has gotten them over?

Would you consider the Red Rooster "over"?

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


One of my favorite random commentary lines is from this old episode of WWF Wrestling Challenge. During a match, they show a promo by Afa that's entirely in Samoan with subtitles. Randomly, in the middle of his promo he yells, "YOY!" which is translated in the subtitles as, well, "YOY!" The commentators are Gorilla Monsoon and Randy Savage, who can't get over this.

After a moment, Savage goes, "OHHHH YOOOOOY!" and I lost it.

While people poo poo on Vince's commentary for his whatamaneuvers and onetwoHEGOTHIMnohedidn'ts, I thought he was great when paired with a comedic heel color guy because he was the perfect straight man. He and Heenan calling the Michaels/Martel match at Summerslam '92 still kills me.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


magnum_valentino posted:

Any idea where I might mind this? If you know the year I might start there.

It's hard to say. My memory appears to be off, since it couldn't have been Monsoon with Savage as according to Wiki, Monsoon was only on Challenge while Savage was only on Superstars. That would mean it would be Savage and McMahon. There was a Savage/McMahon/Lawler commentary team for a while, but since I'm pretty sure Lawler wasn't there, I guess that would put it on WWF Superstars somewhere between November 1993 and March 1994. But I could be wrong.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Bigass Moth posted:

I wasn't watching at the time, why did they push Miz to WWE Champion?

To add to what everyone else said, despite having an average workrate, Miz was a guy who did everything right up to a point. He started out as an annoying face with X-Pac heat and was able to evolve himself over the years, constantly changing and definitely improving. He was thrown into a tag team with John Morrison based on them both being failed contenders for the ECW title while tag champ Matt Hardy got injured and needed someone to drop it to. The two of them made the best of it and became insanely entertaining with a long-running internet show (which gets credit for introducing an early version of Zack Ryder's current gimmick). When they split up, Miz kept the momentum going while Morrison got hurt from having to recite some of the shittiest face promos that the writers made for him. He stayed strong via his first Cena feud (which was like the WCW Jericho/Goldberg feud with sensible booking), his involvement on the first two seasons of NXT and being both US and tag champ with Big Show.

He kept getting better in all respects and had fantastic charisma. There's even a promo he cut during an MVP feud that people here were claiming was his "Austin 3:16" moment and it really should have been. Plus I'm sure it got him credit from the smarks for pointing out how he had been hazed non-stop for being a celebrity and stuck it out to become legit. His winning Money in the Bank was emotional and his cashing in was also pretty emotional... as shown via Alex Riley breaking character on top of the ramp to tell him, "You've waited your whole life for this! Your whole loving life!" The infamous Miz Girl reaction didn't hurt either and made him look like the best heel.

Then two things pretty much happened. First, he plateaued. Outside of him dressing up as the Rock one time and his Wrestlemania entrance, Miz stopped doing anything new or impressive in a time where they just put the spotlight on him to do something new and impressive. Second, his feuds stopped being about him. He had a couple of matches against Jerry Lawler that worked okay on paper, but then it became all about Lawler vs. Michael Cole and it was INSUFFERABLE. Then his Cena feud became all about Cena and Rock badmouthing each other while Miz just hung out in the background. Once Rock was out of the picture, it got worse because the whole feud was Cena being Cena at his worst. The most Miz got out of it was that he got to kick out of the Attitude Adjustment once or twice. Otherwise, the I Quit blowoff match absolutely killed Miz's credibility.

His career got a second wind when R-Truth became a popular heel and they became an uppercard tag team, but then they were window dressing for the Cena vs. Rock feud and any remaining credibility was washed away. Especially because Cena was able to beat them both at the same time during the lead-up. Miz has been deflated and aimless ever since.

I'm not even a big Miz fan or anything, but I feel he's the only guy that you can argue had a legitimate gripe about Rock coming back. He would have been steamrolled by Cena regardless, but I'd still see where he was coming from.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Sprint posted:

Also, having watched Royal Rumble 2003 (The Night of the Belly-to-Belly), I had another question - has there ever been a Rumble where all of the contestants had been eliminated before the next person came out?

The closest would be Royal Rumble 1999. Austin chases McMahon out of the ring and neither is eliminated, but the ring is completely cleared. The ring fills up and Kane clears it before being chased off by men in white coats. The ring fills up again and Mabel clears it before being kidnapped by the Ministry. So it sort of happened, except Austin and McMahon were still part of the match.

2002 almost counts too, just for Maven eliminating Undertaker and Undertaker murdering him to the point that he couldn't compete in the match anymore.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Beef Jerky Robot posted:

2011 is nearly unwatchable thanks to the commentary.

I like that you didn't include "Royal Rumble" in your post because it's still true.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Memento posted:

Who was it that Johnny Ace fired when he coined the phrase "we wish him well in his future endeavors"? And was that the first time the term was used?

On TV, I'm pretty sure it was John Morrison. He lost a match and/or got kayfabe injured and while everyone was seeing to him on the ramp, Johnny was seen there shaking his head. Then the next week he announced with a thumbs up and a smile that he wishes Morrison well on his future endeavors.

Frankenstein Dad posted:

Who/what the hell was Carlito? I wasn't really watching when he was around. What was his gimmick? Did he get over? Was he good in the ring? Did the IWC like him?

He was a bratty Razor Ramon with a fro. He'd do the whole apple spit thing instead of the toothpick flick, which was pretty dumb after the first or second time. Like, anyone can get hit in the face with a flicked toothpick. To have Carlito spit apple into your face, you'd have to stand there and wait for him to bite into the apple, chew it and then spit.

I'm trying to remember anything memorable about him and only a few things come to mind:

- He made his wrestling debut beating Cena for the US title.
- He was once prepared to spit apple in Batista's face until Batista warned him that he'd literally sodomize him with a flag pole.
- He and Hornswoggle once did that Roadrunner gag of spraying a black hole onto the wall that only Hornswoggle could run through.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Joeslop posted:

What were the most underwhelming surprise returns, where either people had no idea who the person was, didn't remember them, or just plain didn't care, not counting Royal Rumble surprises?

Not really a surprise, but in the early 90's, Bob Backlund made a comeback after being gone for eight years. The WWF style had shifted and he was a totally bland wrestleguy in a time of colorful gimmicks. Nobody really cared about him even though they kept talking up how much of a big deal he used to be. The only time he got a big reaction was at Royal Rumble '93 where he lasted over an hour and got third place. He had a moment where he had Yokozuna on the ropes and then got eliminated to a fairly strong reaction.

They did gently caress-all with him for a while, having him get squashed by Razor Ramon at the following Wrestlemania. They finally struck insane gold when he lost a match against Bret for the title and completely snapped after the match before coming to his senses and realizing he blacked out. At first this was going to be explained as being Papa Shango's doing, but Backlund was so awesome at it that they just had him go fully crazy and that gave us MISTER Bob Backlund.

quote:

Conversely, what were the most underwhelming surprised Royal Rumble returns? Have there been any where people didn't flip out?

The early Rumbles have the worst surprise entrants. Guys like Dory Funk Jr., Carlos Colon and Dick Murdock.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


IronCladBurrito posted:

OK. So did he come back with an "I'm still the champ, I was never pinned and didn't submit" gimmick? I never knew for sure. Occasionally in the mid-late 80s one of the Apter mags would pop up with Backlund quotes about it, but IDK if those were real quotes or...?

In the beginning of his early 90's run, he didn't really bring it up. He was overly respectful to the point of shaking hands with the jobbers post-match, so it was out of character for him to whine about the past. Once he turned heel, he really got into it. When he beat Bret Hart for the belt, he insisted that he never truly lost the title to begin with.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


As a monster heel, did Kurrgan ever get fed to anyone? As bad as he was in the ring, the 98 Rumble did a great job of making him look like an impressive beast. Shortly after, I recall he started squashing people and dragging them up the ramp by palming their skull (which is how they wrote off Ahmed Johnson) and then he eventually was repackaged as part of the Oddities just because. So before that face turn, did anyone ever take him down?

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Manwithastick posted:

Has any two wrestlers just gone off script and had an amazing/horrid match on live tv?

If so what was the consequence?

Gail Kim got so fed up with WWE that during a Diva battle royal she immediately slid under the bottom rope and eliminated herself just to see if anyone would call her out on it. She was released soon after.

There's also the infamous Bob Holly/Rene Dupree match. Dupree did some poo poo that rightfully pissed off Holly something fierce (borrowed his car, got a ticket, never mentioned it and Holly had to deal with an endless stream of legal pain). Rather than take any kind of acceptable avenue in dealing with this situation, Holly instead had a match on Heat where he beat the living hell out of Dupree and chased him into the back to beat on him some more. In other words, gently caress Bob Holly.

Pope Corky the IX posted:

That's the one that goes "TATANKA! BUFFALO! TATANKA! BUFFALO! TATANKA! BUFFALO! TATANKA! BUFFALO!" followed by "I've got Native American blood in my veins and I fight! In the World Wrestling Federation!"

Repeat, repeat. And that's it.

One of my favorite things about being at King of Trios '12 was when Tatanka had a singles match and instead of his old WWF theme, he came out to his Wrestlemania: The Album song. The whole crowd chanted along with the "TATANKA! BUFFALO!" and it ruled.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


triplexpac posted:

Is there a story behind the name "Skull Crushing Finale"? It always sounds so awkward

Miz came up with the move first and then farmed out what to call it via Twitter. His only rule was that it couldn't have his name in it (ie. "the Mizaster"). That's apparently the best answer he saw.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Karma Tornado posted:

He wanted to pick The BFF (Best Fuckin' Finisher), but he wasn't allowed to. I don't know why I remember that.

Yet John Cena still has his submission finisher the Shut the gently caress.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Red posted:

Q: I feel like Fake Diesel was actually somewhat protected, whereas fake Razor looked like a total jobber out there. Fake Diesel was actually in the final five of the '97 Royal Rumble, if I remember right. Is that true, or am I mis-remembering? Jacobs got several tries at various roles until he became Kane, so maybe they really wanted Jacobs to do something. Then again, I've read a lot that suggests the only real purpose of Fake Razor and Diesel was to prove they legally had a purpose to retaining the characters of employees who'd left the company.

No, you're right. Fake Diesel actually got 3rd place in that Rumble and the storyline reason why nobody ever talked about it was that Bret eliminated him and not Austin, so he wasn't technically screwed over. Meanwhile, Fake Razor was both the first elimination and the quickest.

quote:

Q: On air, has the WWF/E ever acknowledged that Jerry Lawler and Honky Tonk Man are related? If no, does Lawler even make inside comments re: HTM when he's appeared?

Pretty much. Lawler reacted to HTM the same way he reacted to Brian Christopher matches. Complete enthusiasm with strong hints that they were family. HTM was in Royal Rumble 98 and Lawler's commentary was on point.

"AH! My cous-- The Honky Tonk Man's in trouble!"

Or when he gets eliminated, Jim Ross goes, "And there goes Cousin Honky Tonk Man."

"The Honky Tonk Man is your cousin?!"

"...."

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


sticklefifer posted:

Has a tag team or stable ever started out on good terms, shown signs of tension/breakup, then worked things out without turning on each other (and without dropping the angle due to a de-push as the plot resolution)?

I want to say Hell No, but they didn't start out as getting along. Rhodes Scholars kind of did this before splitting later for a different reason, but their initial split was amicable.

The Hardy Boyz had this in late 2001/early 2002. They were building up to Matt turning heel as he became more and more paranoid that Jeff and Lita were doing stuff behind his back. I don't think he outright attacked Jeff, but he did act like he was splitting and I recall him making Lita cry. Then a week or so later, they showed him at WWE New York during an episode of Raw. In said episode, Biker Undertaker messed with Jeff and Lita and threw both of them off the stage. It cut to Matt at the restaurant looking all, "JESUS CHRIST, WHAT THE gently caress?!" Then at the Royal Rumble, he and Jeff reunited to put the boots to Undertaker.

Rock and Sock Connection almost counts, since it was Mankind on good terms and Rock being Rock. This is actually one of my favorite character moments in wrestling. While they worked together, Rock was acting like a total jerk, constantly badmouthing Mankind because that's his thing. It started to go a little over the line and in Foley's second book he thought that it was only a matter of time before fans would start to turn on the Rock for being nothing but abusive (I started to not care for him myself at this time for the same reasons). When Foley's first book came out, he gave Rock an autographed copy. Rock didn't seem very enthusiastic about it, but took it anyway.

Later on, Mankind found the signed book in the garbage. He stormed into the dressing room and finally snapped at the Rock for being a gigantic piece of poo poo and the worst friend ever. Rock started out with his usual attitude, but was then taken aback when Mankind told him to shut up and listen to him for once. Mankind said that their partnership was over and he didn't even want to fight Rock over this. He simply wanted no part of him at all in any fashion.

Maybe two or three months later, the two crossed paths backstage and Mankind had gotten over everything. Mankind was pretty friendly and Rock gave him attitude over something he wrote about him in the book. After he was gone, Mankind realized that Rock did read his book after all. Then I think GTV revealed that Al Snow was the one who threw the book out because he was jealous of Mankind's partnership with the Rock. After that, Rock and Sock got back together.

I like to think of Foley as the soul of the Attitude Era. While everyone was a shades of gray bastard around this time, even Austin and Rock were redeemed for genuinely liking Mankind despite never admitting it.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Endorph posted:

It's 50% him creeping on divas and 25% him rambling incoherently about his 'great' ideas that were actually terrible.

And the other 25% is him hammering down on how he's the nicest man in the world. It's rather interesting when you stick it with the Funk situation. Like that part of the book is him feeling that he isn't appreciated, so he writes chapters on all the charity work he does and how Dee Snyder told him how much of a good person he is.

DeathChicken posted:

Wasn't Vince's justification for poo pooing it not the angle itself, but that Funk was too old and no one would know who he was?

I remember it being because Vince was really involved with the DX feud, which was new and fresh at the time since Triple H just turned face and there really wasn't any good reason or time for inserting Terry Funk in there.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?



The way X-Pac's laughter grows through each video to the point of absolutely losing it during the Dusty part always kills me.

That and, "Jesus Christ and myself want to know!"

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


CopywrightMMXI posted:

Quick question - did Ahmed Johnson ever have vignettes prior to his debut? I don't reacall ever seeing anything about him prior to his debut.

I recall one or two talking head interview videos of him talking about himself, maybe on WWF Mania. He was making his televised in-ring debut at Survivor Series for the Wild Card Match, so they'd regularly talk about him as this mysterious big deal. I remember Doc Hendrix losing his poo poo while describing how jacked he is, having seen him in person before the viewers ever got a good look at him.

Then I think his first true appearance was in a post-match brawl where he showed up and bodyslammed Yokozuna in a way that made Luger's bodyslam look like poo poo. Not that it didn't already.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


In terms of accidental knockouts, I recall a match from Chikara of D'Lo Brown and Glacier vs. Colin Delaney and Vin Gerard, which was supposed to be a blowoff to that terrible King of Trios match, only this time they were smart enough to not want anything to do with Al Snow. In the opening moments, D'Lo destroyed Gerard with a stiff clothesline and D'Lo seemed to realize he went a little too hard on it because when the fans chanted, "ONE MORE TIME!" he rather nervously and cartoonishly shook his head.

Gerard sat out a good chunk of the match due to being knocked out and when he got up, his face was busted open.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


MassRafTer posted:

Add to that it was coming after some bad matches with bad finishes and one more lovely finish stings that much more.

It's been a while since I've watched Wrestlemania 4 but I recall enjoying the first hour of it despite the terrible endings. And make no mistake, Bam Bam vs. One Man Gang was one of THE worst match endings I've ever seen, but with a lot of it I was still fairly entertained... plus we had Hogan's legendary swimming promo. Roberts vs. Rude isn't just a bad match with a bad ending. It absolutely kills the show and ruins any momentum it had going for it because it's just two guys killing time for 15 minutes for the sake of removing them from the tournament.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Going back to the cliche discussion, one that always bugged me, though they haven't done it in years, is the bit where a face lets go of his submission finisher because the ref is yelling at the manager. It makes total sense when he's trying to make the pin, but I could never get the logic when they did it with submissions because as long as you stay there and do your thing, the opponent can't recover.

Like for instance, Brutus Beefcake has Honky Tonk Man in a sleeper in the center of the ring. Honky's out like a light and there's no chance of him escaping. Suddenly Jimmy Hart pops up on the apron and flails around, causing the ref to yell at him. Brutus decides to let go for the sake of confronting Hart. Honky recovers and eventually wins or gets counted out or whatever.

I always wanted to see the face hold onto that submission and wait it out because he has zero reason to let go. Instead, the heel gets injured from being held in, say, the Sharpshooter for way too long and has a major falling out with his manager over it.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Having just rewatched all the Rumbles, here are the most problemantic ones:

1988: The first one which is nothing but midcarders being extremely boring. It's a match where charismatic guys like Warrior, Hillbilly Jim and Junkyard Dog would come out, enter the ring, do a big pile of nothing and then just kind of fall out of the ring to no fanfare. Only the last two minutes are worth sitting through.

1991: This was the first one I ever saw as a kid, meaning I loved it then, but revisiting it, it isn't very good. It gave us Bushwacker Luke's elimination and LOD vs. Undertaker, but whatever isn't uneventful is just a big Hogan wankfest. Considering how great they booked Hogan vs. two heel finalists the year before, it sucked that they had Hogan beat Earthquake and Knobbs via "Hulking out and then... Hulking out again."

1994: Everyone remembers this one for Diesel kicking rear end for a while and the double-winner ending, but the rest of this match is completely dire. In-between Diesel's elimination and the final two, you'll be checking your watch and comparing it to the runtime.

1999: This one stinks of Russo. It's overbooked inside and outside the ring. The ring gets cleared every ten minutes. Kane eliminates himself for a nonsense reason. Wrestlecrap just inducted it and gives it a good rundown of what was wrong, but despite its many, many problems, it's still watchable.

2012: This is the Rumble that didn't take itself seriously in any way, such as making almost a third of the roster joke/guest entries. All while deciding that they only had room for one Uso. It also has the only Royal Rumble ending where I completely disagree with the winner in terms of the booking making any sense.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


The book Death of WCW is also a good read in that respect. It focuses on the WCW side of the way, natch, but also goes into the WWF stuff that affected them.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Die Laughing posted:

What are the best Rumbles? I haven't seen 2003-2011. I want to watch those, and whatever classic ones that still hold up.

Ones that are must-watch:

1990
1992
2001
2003
2004
2004 Smackdown Rumble
2007
2008

Even the Rumbles considered bad are worth a watch.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Yeah. Benoit was on Smackdown and used the Rumble win as a loophole to challenge for Triple H's title on Raw and jump ship. On the first Smackdown after the Rumble, Heyman decided to make due by doing a 15-man Royal Rumble of just Smackdown guys where the winner would face Lesnar at No Way Out. It was a really good match and worth looking up on YouTube.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Amy Renee posted:

I'm watching my Hell in a Cell compilation DVD, and I got to UT/Stone Cold vs. Kane/Mankind, and Foley is cutting this oddly poetic promo before the match. I didn't get into wrestling until late 1999, so I missed the whole demented & tragic/corporate Mankind eras, and only knew him as the goofball with Mr. Socko. Were all of Mankind's promos poetic, or did Mankind just do whatever made him look unhinged?

Is that the one where Mankind mentions in passing that he's married, then immediately follows it up by snapping at the audience for collectively thinking, "Wait, a woman actually married that hideous freak of nature?" Because that was a great promo and I was thinking that.

The "prone position" thing was from some magazine, I think in the UK, who were given a preview copy of one of the Smackdown games with a memo not to show any screens of blood, the use of weapons or Triple H being shown in a prone or helpless position. They thought it was the stupidest thing, so their preview of the game had images of a bloody Shelton Benjamin hitting a prone Triple H with a sledgehammer and so on as well as a scan of the memo. This was around 2009 or so.

The Hogan/bald talk always makes me think of one of the most surreal promos where Kurt Angle had just lost a Hair vs. Hair Match with Edge and wore a wig to hide his shaved head. Kurt cut a promo whining about it when Hogan showed up to ask him what was so wrong about being bald. Then he talked up how Austin was another awesome bald guy, so you had Hogan both discussing his baldness AND verbally putting over Austin. Then I think this led to a match where Hogan cleanly tapped to Angle. Crazy.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


I don't expect a single person to know what I'm talking about, but by chance if anyone does, you'd be making my day.

Back in the early-to-mid 90's I recall this fake fighting thing on PPV. Not a live event or anything, but a taped series of fights that they'd show at random points in the day. For all I know there could have only been one episode. It was filmed in some kind of dark basement with no audience that I can recall. Two guys would fight inside a circle where the only ways to win were knockout or knocking them out of the circle.

The main thing I remember about it is that one of the fights had a guy named something like Ax. He was a relatively skinny rockstar guy with long hair and an electric guitar. He jobbed out hard within a minute because he tried diving at his opponent, missed and got shoved out of the circle. At the end of the show, they gave you a number to call to vote on who the best fighter was. The snarky "I can't believe I'm involved with this stupid poo poo" color commentator sarcastically joked about how you could vote for Ax.

Does anyone know what this is? Because I feel that I need to revisit its badness whenever possible.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


It was definitely not WMAC Masters. I mean, who in their right mind could forget Akeem the Machine and Bruce Lee's daughter and the original Liu Kang?

Future Fights might be it. I'll have to look it up when I get home.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


DeathChicken posted:

Man, I was watching the Saturday Night's Main Event battle royal right before Wrestlemania 3 and it struck me how loving neutered the heels are nowadays. Here you have Hogan calling out Andre, Andre not backing down a step and telling him to come get it, then in pretty short order Andre kicks his rear end and dumps him. If it happened today Andre would have teased facing Hogan, then walked away while the crowd booed.

That match was great just for, "gently caress off, Koko!"

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Unlucky7 posted:

Are there any 'forgotten' gimmick match types? Stuff that sounded like a good idea at the time, but afterwards, everyone else who watched agreed that they are never doing that again.

- Mike Adamle's Championship Scramble.
- Undertaker did a bunch of Bodybag Matches against Ultimate Warrior at house shows, a couple years before they realized that caskets would work better.
- Bret Hart lost the title to Bob Backlund in a Towel Match, which they've thankfully never done again because it's theoretically impossible for the face to win.
- Randy Savage and Crush had a variation of a Falls Count Anywhere Match where you had to pin the guy outside the ring and then he had ten seconds to make it back into the ring.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


jscolon2.0 posted:

Slightly exaggerated to say literally impossible, but is very in heel's favor. Face's cornerman is more likely to care about him and throw in the towel, than the heel's cornerman cares about him.

Right. It was Owen Hart in Bob Backlund's corner and I kept wondering why he would ever throw the towel in, since they were both heels and it was never established that they were close or anything.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Endorph posted:

As someone who just watched it: Nothing on the show was ungodly, but basically the show opens with a decent Hardyz/MNM match that goes about ten minutes too long, and then what follows is a string of god-awful matches.

Not the worst matches ever, mind, but extremely bad ones. And it never ends. A lot of lovely PPVs go bad match, good match, bad match, bad match, good match. December to Dismember just goes bad match, bad match, bad match, bad match. The sewage runoff of the 2006 WWE roster marching out there for 5-15 minutes to buy time.

And then the elimination chamber match happens. The crowd's huge on Punk and Rob Van Dam, but especially Punk.

Punk goes out first. Then Hardcore Holly. Then Rob Van Dam.

Then the crowd starts chanting TNA as Bobby Lashley, Big Show, and Test battle in the worst three-way you've ever seen.

To add insult to injury, the show was marketed as running three hours and lasted two and a half.

EDIT: Also if you want a bad pay-per-view, watch Heroes of Wrestling.

Oh wait, WWE/ECW/WCW. Uh, those british exclusive pay-per-views WWE did in the late 90s?

To add to this, they were supposed to have Sabu in the Chamber, but he got laid out backstage and replaced by Hardcore Holly. This was Sabu's fault, as he straight up didn't give a poo poo at this point, but replacing Sabu with Holly didn't win over any ECW fans.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Maxwell Lord posted:

Question that comes to mind riffing on this tweet:


Apart from that one time the Iceland volcanic event stranded part of the WWE roster in Europe, what are some notable cases of inclement weather or other delays causing major problems for wrestling events? Even assuming you have a few days to get people where they need to be, have there been cases where everybody gets snowed in and you have to rebook on the fly?

Chikara's 2011 Young Lions Cup tournament was suppposed to last the weekend as a two or three day show. Due to a blizzard it became a lengthy single-day show instead.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Mike Quackenbush just did a Reddit AMA and he and the Redditors kept namedropping Chris Masters like he completely poo poo the bed in some way when he did an AMA. What are they talking about?

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Pinstripe Hourglass posted:

Speaking of Ryder, could someone quick recap his career for me? All I know is he started in fake ECW, ended up being pushed off a stage in a wheelchair by Kane, and somewhere in the middle he had an Internet show. Apparently he was really popular at some point? That just blows my mind, because I've seen him on TV maybe twice since I started watching in July.

At first he was in the Major Brothers in the WWE ECW along with Curt Hawkins. They did nothing of note. Then they became the Edgeheads. He and Hawkins had long hair that made them look enough like Edge that they made for good decoys during Edge's title defenses. Around this time, Miz and John Morrison had a really fun internet show called the Dirt Sheet and brought the Edgeheads on because Ryder created this terrible catchphrase where he'd go "WOO WOO WEE WOO WOO!" which was a huge step up from he and Hawkins having no personality whatsoever other than really liking Edge. It was later shortened to "WOO WOO WOO!" and he got repackaged on ECW with a guido gimmick and really catchy theme song.

On ECW, he had a lot of strong matches. He also had a match against a jobber where the opponent's pants tore and his junk fell out. That was pretty funny. He feuded with Tommy Dreamer and beat him in a Loser Leaves Match, making him kind of a big deal in this small pond. With Dreamer gone, ECW was shortly changed into NXT and Ryder was thrown onto Raw where he became what Heath Slater is now, only without the stable to back him up. He was huge into Twitter back before McMahon even knew what Twitter was, which led to a Raw segment involving Ashton Kutcher via satellite that was jaw-droppingly embarrassing to watch. He also got a spot on Season 2 of NXT where he briefly mentored Titus O'Neil until Titus was kicked off the show for being entirely too unsafe in the ring.

He started his Z! True Long Island Story internet show, which was really fun and funny. He poked fun at the company for not using him well and had a ton of great running gags. He started to gain a following, but WWE still didn't do anything with him. This got a little backlash when they did a Long Island Raw and refused to bring Ryder out for anything other than Superstars tapings. Even Dolph Ziggler got pissy on Twitter about that before that was his go-to thing. It was helped that the Ryder Revolution was going on during the smark-loved Summer of Punk storyline as there felt like a bit of a concurrent wave in all of it. Either way, shows in the New York area were incredibly pro-Ryder.

Ryder started to really pick up steam and WWE started to acknowledge his show (which was NOT part of their YouTube channel at the time) as being a good thing. He had a really strong feud with Dolph Ziggler over the US title and there was a Raw guest-hosted by Hugh Jackman that really put him over. Hell, even the Rock verbally put him over huge at Survivor Series. He won the US title around the time that Bryan got the World Heavyweight Championship and Punk was in the early days of his lengthy WWE Championship reign, so for one night they played it up that these guys were the future.

Then Ryder gave a lovely promo and the main event where they won a six-man tag did a poo poo rating. It became apparent that the fans liked the idea of Ryder, but he didn't have much to support the chants once he was in the ring. His character was overly basic and his matches weren't all that great. Plus a lot of people feel that WWE resented him getting over without their consent. Ryder, who was given the spot as John Cena's sidekick, became the bitch in one of the worst feuds of the last several years. Kane started wearing his mask again and tried messing with Cena to make him HATE. His way of doing this was to terrorize Zack Ryder over and over again while Ryder looked completely inept and never got any licks in. He also lost his belt to Jack Swagger in the last instance of Ryder ever looking credible as despite being injured, it took three Doctor Bombs to take him out.

It got even worse when John Cena started making out with Eve (Ryder's would-be love interest) in front of Ryder sitting heartbroken in a wheelchair with a bouquet of flowers in his hands. WWE refused to show Cena in a negative light because of his status and they needed to get his Wrestlemania feud with the Rock in gear, so they finished off the Kane angle, ignored Ryder's gripes, had Eve turn suddenly heel and immediately had Cena slut-shame her in the middle of the ring. Cena termed her a "hoski," which Ryder co-opted and it was gross. Eve befriended Ryder again, only to predictably turn on him during a big 8-man tag at Wrestlemania. Ryder never got revenge and instead fell into obscurity.

The whole experience took the wind out of his sails and he never recovered. He started getting really bitter on Twitter and on his show (which was switched over to the WWE channel at some point), which was initially understandable. Then he kept whining more and more. Soon that was all he ever seemed to do and there was a backlash, as the usual fans stopped caring about him. He lost interest in the Z! True Long Island Story, got fat and people forget he even exists anymore.

Oh, wait. You said a "quick recap." Sorry.

Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


I'm pretty sure that was when Raw was in Long Island. It was right around the time Vince pulled his hi-larious prank where he brought out Mark Henry for a post-show dark match and kept playing different music until Henry just left.

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Gavok
Oct 10, 2005

Brock! Oh, man, I'm sorry about your...

...tooth?


Writer Cath posted:

There was also the time Kane was being taken away by an ambulance and had flashbacks.

I thought he was looking at himself in the mirror for almost two hours while having flashbacks.

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