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Macrame_God
Sep 1, 2005

The stairs lead down in both directions.



CharlesWillisMaddox posted:

Christopher Walken does a reading of Poker Face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2guQYivZ6w

It seems now that, between this and South Park, if you add the song Poker Face to anything then it immediately becomes comedy gold.

Of course the same thing can be said of Christopher Walken so maybe I'm jumping the gun here.

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A SHAMEFUL CAT
Jan 20, 2009

~*confused dog noize*~


cat doter posted:

Hell as a musician it loving ENRAGES ME on one level, but on another level I'm pretty cold to it cause it's something you have to expect because this loving industry went to hell a long time ago.

I mean, she's obviously a real musician, she can play and sing quite well. She could be quite popular without the image bullshit, but whoever is handling her PR resorts to it anyway. I admire that she's a pop star with at least some talent, but come one, the stupid image, typical pop beats and songs about poker and stuff, there's no need for it, it's like music industry trans fat. But we all know people love their fat.

I had to buy the album just to spite this "teenage Nirvana fan" school of thought.

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

A SHAMEFUL CAT posted:

I had to buy the album just to spite this "teenage Nirvana fan" school of thought.

You buy mediocre pop to spite schools of thought that don't exist(I don't even like Nirvana or grunge)? Cool man.

brand name canned soup
Aug 20, 2009

So no one told you life was gonna be this way
(clap clap clap clap)
Your job's a joke, you're broke, your love life's D.O.A.
(clap clap clap clap)

its okay I used to hate on gaga too. You'll come around

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

I don't really hate gaga or any other music for that matter, I just dislike a portion of the industry that she sort of represents.

A SHAMEFUL CAT
Jan 20, 2009

~*confused dog noize*~


cat doter posted:

You buy mediocre pop to spite schools of thought that don't exist(I don't even like Nirvana or grunge)? Cool man.

Tell me more about how pop stars should Keep It Real and not promote themselves. Ignore how Gaga's image is self-made and an important aspect of her art.

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

A SHAMEFUL CAT posted:

Tell me more about how pop stars should Keep It Real and not promote themselves. Ignore how Gaga's image is self-made and an important aspect of her art.

This making fun of things I never said shtick is already old.

A SHAMEFUL CAT
Jan 20, 2009

~*confused dog noize*~


I understand, I'd disown those opinions too.

Zombie Lincoln
Sep 7, 2006
The master of all things GRRM!

"His manhood glistened wetly..."


I expect to find better versions of this, but here is that Christopher Walken reading set to the music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGH5ygIKyT0

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



cat doter posted:

This making fun of things I never said shtick is already old.

You certainly claimed that it was her PR people that are responsible for her image and generally implied that her existence and popularity is some sort of corporate music industry conspiracy, which is basically a bunch of dumb reactionary bullshit

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

Earwicker posted:

You certainly claimed that it was her PR people that are responsible for her image and generally implied that her existence and popularity is some sort of corporate music industry conspiracy, which is basically a bunch of dumb reactionary bullshit

Wait, what? I said she'd mostly likely be popular without all the bullshit, but the PR guys feel the need to do it anyway. I'm not ragging on lady gaga, I'm just gettin' mad at the typical pop music industry crap that comes with popular artists. Hell I even said that I admire that she's talented.

Look, I get it, I'm criticising a concept rather than the performer herself, and rather than looking at my arguments on their own basis, you guys just put me under the umbrella of the Nirvana-loving-keep-it-real anti record company dude, but I'm not one of those guys. Can you guys who like lady gaga seriously tell me with a straight face that sometimes the popular music industry doesn't take this poo poo too far?

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



cat doter posted:

Wait, what? I said she'd mostly likely be popular without all the bullshit, but the PR guys feel the need to do it anyway.

Yeah exactly, what makes you think her image is the result of these anonymous "PR guys"? Her image is her own work and as the poster above mentioned, a very important part of her art. You seem to be missing that. Her image isn't what it is because of some mysterious corporate "need to do it anyway" - her image is what it is because she wants it to be, because its key to what she's doing.

quote:

Can you guys who like lady gaga seriously tell me with a straight face that sometimes the popular music industry doesn't take this poo poo too far?

That's a bit challenging when you haven't really defined what either "this poo poo" or "too far" mean

A SHAMEFUL CAT
Jan 20, 2009

~*confused dog noize*~


Becoming a Prince fan cures you of most of your illusions w/r/t the relationship between flamboyance and artistic merit. (There is no relationship.)

sethsez
Jul 13, 2006

He's soooo
dreamy...


cat doter posted:

Wait, what? I said she'd mostly likely be popular without all the bullshit, but the PR guys feel the need to do it anyway.

Like Earwicker said, she's the one doing it, not her PR people, and she's doing it because she likes the theatrical aspects of performing as much as she likes her music.

Personally, I don't see the issue. All live shows are about the visuals as much as the sounds, even ones played by a bunch of guys in jeans in a lovely little bar. What's the problem with her playing up the theatricality of her stuff?

Wandle Cax
Dec 15, 2006


cat doter posted:

You buy mediocre pop to spite schools of thought that don't exist(I don't even like Nirvana or grunge)? Cool man.

Nope, it's not mediocre pop either. She makes her own music, it's not just the product of anonymous producers. Don't like it fine, but her music is legitimate.

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

Earwicker posted:

Yeah exactly, what makes you think her image is the result of these anonymous "PR guys"? Her image is her own work and as the poster above mentioned, a very important part of her art. You seem to be missing that. Her image isn't what it is because of some mysterious corporate "need to do it anyway" - her image is what it is because she wants it to be, because its key to what she's doing.

I guess the whole gist of what I was saying is that the idea that style and image are so important to a musician makes me uncomfortable. Although I think I'm being a little too idealistic there, perhaps the image of a live performer matters a lot. I'm not going to pretend I think I've been completely in the right here but I just wanted to make it clear that style over substance in music has always made me uncomfortable. This is an entirely personal thing.


Earwicker posted:

That's a bit challenging when you haven't really defined what either "this poo poo" or "too far" mean

I was talking about the image stuff, I just thought reiterating myself constantly was pointless and just assumed you know what I meant.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



cat doter posted:

I guess the whole gist of what I was saying is that the idea that style and image are so important to a musician makes me uncomfortable.

Why? Lady Gaga's act is not purely about music, image and fashion are a huge part of it, and a ton of creativity goes into that. What exactly makes you uncomfortable about it? Furthermore why do you seem to think that fashion is not substance? In a lot of art, style is substance, and the music world is certainly no exception to that.



cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

Earwicker posted:

Why? Lady Gaga's act is not purely about music, image and fashion are a huge part of it, and a ton of creativity goes into that. What exactly makes you uncomfortable about it? Furthermore why do you seem to think that fashion is not substance? In a lot of art, style is substance, and the music world is certainly no exception to that.

Like I said, maybe I'm too idealistic. In my head, it's all about the music, everything is a very distant secondary issue. Well...I guess it's exactly this type of attitude that lead to the grunge movement. Good god I am that Nirvana kid.

Shes Not Impressed
Apr 25, 2004

When it's over I just want to be able to look in the mirror and say, 'Well, you were a half-decent player.'


cat doter posted:

Like I said, maybe I'm too idealistic. In my head, it's all about the music, everything is a very distant secondary issue. Well...I guess it's exactly this type of attitude that lead to the grunge movement. Good god I am that Nirvana kid.

Wasn't the grunge movement all about their image too? It certainly was inexpensive and you could wash all your dark's at once.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

SEXY... defines my posts and my ride


Ugh I get so mad when live music performers don't hide behind a curtain when they perform, it should be about the music instead of seeing their stupid image on a stage entertaining people. And I'm so tired of bands putting images on their album covers, why can't it be about the MUSIC?

7lip
Mar 25, 2009

Don't tell me the moon is shining; show me the glint of light on broken glass.


Cartman vs Poker face

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QwGmYWqDIQ

Nova Bizzare
Jun 2, 2006

...and it made me smile.

What's the deal with Disco Heaven? I've seen it around and it has songs I've never heard of but I can't find any info on whether or not it's legit.

7lip
Mar 25, 2009

Don't tell me the moon is shining; show me the glint of light on broken glass.


Nova Bizzare posted:

What's the deal with Disco Heaven? I've seen it around and it has songs I've never heard of but I can't find any info on whether or not it's legit.

It's a fan-made compilation of demo material.

Free Market Gravy
Sep 17, 2005



Shes Not Impressed posted:

Wasn't the grunge movement all about their image too? It certainly was inexpensive and you could wash all your dark's at once.

I agree with you, but regardless, Nirvana isn't even a good example seeing as Kurt was a reclusive basketcase who committed suicide to escape the fame he never wanted to attain.

I don't know if Grunge (or any type of music) is even a good example because image and music are always going to be intertwined. Grunge was as close to style-less (visually) as music can be, but the fans of it turned flannel shirts and trashed jeans into a fashion statement, just as any fans of any style of music will and if Kurt suddenly started wearing Kiss-style spandex bodysuits and facepaint, Nirvana fans would have poo poo bricks.

Unless your favorite band plays every show behind a curtain or with the lights off and never makes any public appearances, the idea that the music is the only thing that matters and everything is irrelevant shows a tremendous lack of perspective regarding the idea of performance.

LuckySevens
Feb 16, 2004

fear not failure, fear only the limitations of our dreams


I just think she's really contrived and a rehash of everything that's been done before mixed the current flavor of the month style production. She's trying to sell originality when she's anything but. Maybe I should just sit back and admire ambition or something.

angerbeet
Mar 23, 2004


Does he long for the bone or the embrace of dust? Tomorrow your doglobster shall be a corpse.


For me the funniest thing about that Christopher Walken reading is that he has an appearance as a dancing psychopomp in an equally cheesy Madonna video:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/L9jm0hqldAQ&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/L9jm0hqldAQ&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Malaleb
Dec 1, 2008


LuckySevens posted:

I just think she's really contrived and a rehash of everything that's been done before mixed the current flavor of the month style production. She's trying to sell originality when she's anything but. Maybe I should just sit back and admire ambition or something.

I agree with this. Her songs are fine for 80s inspired synth-pop, and I feel like there is certainly some creativity in her image, fashion, music, videos, etc, but it doesn't really seem like it is breaking any new ground. Obviously, artists don't have to be completely new and original to be good, but an outlandish image isn't very effective if you feel like you've seen it before.

ArmoredBlue
Jul 1, 2007

Furthering the gay Mexican agenda.


Malaleb posted:

I agree with this. Her songs are fine for 80s inspired synth-pop, and I feel like there is certainly some creativity in her image, fashion, music, videos, etc, but it doesn't really seem like it is breaking any new ground. Obviously, artists don't have to be completely new and original to be good, but an outlandish image isn't very effective if you feel like you've seen it before.

I think if anything she's bringing it to a new generation, because this generation (the people that don't remember/weren't around for the 80's) doesn't have a Bowie or any other performer that wants their image to be something other than skimpy clothing. The closest we had was Bjork, but she didn't captivate a Western audience as thoroughly as Lady Gaga is doing.

Of course you could pick apart her image and every photoshoot she does and find the references, but it doesn't really matter: her image is the most unique and original thing out there in pop music right now.

Now, the music itself is just good pop. That's been around for a long long time.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Malaleb posted:

I agree with this. Her songs are fine for 80s inspired synth-pop, and I feel like there is certainly some creativity in her image, fashion, music, videos, etc, but it doesn't really seem like it is breaking any new ground.

I don't think her music breaks a whole lot of new ground, I think her image is somewhat original compared to her peers in the same general genre, but it's not the most original thing in the world either. I just think it's a bit silly for anyone to get ENRAGED over it.

quote:

The closest we had was Bjork, but she didn't captivate a Western audience as thoroughly as Lady Gaga is doing.

Wait, what? Bjork is just as Western as Lady Gaga and while I don't know the exact numbers, she was pretty drat huge for quite a while in the late 90's, early 00's. Slightly different audience, but still.


A SHAMEFUL CAT
Jan 20, 2009

~*confused dog noize*~


Earwicker posted:

Wait, what? Bjork is just as Western as Lady Gaga and while I don't know the exact numbers, she was pretty drat huge for quite a while in the late 90's, early 00's. Slightly different audience, but still.

I think "pretty drat huge" is overstating her case a little bit; she was certainly active, releasing several great albums, starring in a Lars Von Trier movie and several 120 Minutes videos -- but her sphere was much smaller than Gaga. To most people, she's just the girl who wore the swan dress to the Oscars.

Nova Bizzare
Jun 2, 2006

...and it made me smile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFU7DbU9-z8

I probably shouldn't have enjoyed this but drat, it's right up there with the power metal version of I Kissed a Girl.

7lip
Mar 25, 2009

Don't tell me the moon is shining; show me the glint of light on broken glass.


Nova Bizzare posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFU7DbU9-z8

I probably shouldn't have enjoyed this but drat, it's right up there with the power metal version of I Kissed a Girl.

Holyfucksakesshityeah I love this.

Macrame_God
Sep 1, 2005

The stairs lead down in both directions.



Nova Bizzare posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFU7DbU9-z8

I probably shouldn't have enjoyed this but drat, it's right up there with the power metal version of I Kissed a Girl.

I'm looking at the related videos and there seems to be a lot of metal remixes of her work. I didn't know she had this wide an appeal.

sethsez
Jul 13, 2006

He's soooo
dreamy...


Macrame_God posted:

I'm looking at the related videos and there seems to be a lot of metal remixes of her work. I didn't know she had this wide an appeal.

Plenty of metal fans like things that are ostentatious and theatrical.

Macrame_God
Sep 1, 2005

The stairs lead down in both directions.



sethsez posted:

Plenty of metal fans like things that are ostentatious and theatrical.

Touche.

LagoonPretzel
Oct 27, 2009

Earth people.
New York & California.
Earth people.
I was boring in Jupiter.


And please remember to wear a condom:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYsr...player_embedded

(Lady Gaga - Best New Act Award - EMAs Berlin 2009)

Control Volume
Dec 31, 2008



I recently had Lady Gaga songs introduced to me and I think they're pretty catchy.

Does this make me gay?

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 26, 2007




I am actually working on a study of Lady Gaga's videography, but let me just say that anyone who can synthesize the work of Andy Warhol, the French New Wave, Hitchcock, and Kubrick is anything but shallow. The release of the "Bad Romance" video is actually going to be an "Einstein eclipse" test of my thesis, since it's directed by the same guy who directed Britney Spears in "I'm a Slave 4 U"

(also I've never anticipated a music video as much as I am right now)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjmQa18hMMU

tuckfard
Dec 8, 2003

Just chillin

I finally picked up her album and its crazy how awesome, yet very different the second half of the album is. I can't stop listening to "Summerboy" , "Again Again," and "Brown Eyes." Totally awesome.

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CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 26, 2007




cat doter posted:

I mean, she's obviously a real musician, she can play and sing quite well. She could be quite popular without the image bullshit, but whoever is handling her PR resorts to it anyway. I admire that she's a pop star with at least some talent, but come one, the stupid image, typical pop beats and songs about poker and stuff, there's no need for it, it's like music industry trans fat. But we all know people love their fat.

Lady Gaga posted:

What has been lost in pop music these days is the combination of the visual and the imagery of the artist, along with the music and both are just as important. So, even though the carefree nature of the album is something that people are latching onto right away about my stuff, I hope they will take notice of the interactive, multimedia nature of what I'm trying to do. The things I like to do and the theatrics, I like to incorporate them into the choreography. With my music, it's a party, it's a lifestyle, and it's about making the lifestyle the forefront of the music.

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