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Yakiniku Teishoku
Mar 16, 2011

Peace On Egg


Quorum posted:

Relatedly, after working through what ADHD looks like in my head, I realized there was some other stuff up there that was different, so I went back in to get evaluated and it turns out I'm also autistic

Same about something else being up there too but for me I think itís trauma

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Dr. Red Ranger
Nov 9, 2011



Nap Ghost

Hipster_Doofus posted:

Boy and I thought I had a bad case of it. Do you at least ever experience hyperfocus?

Buddy, they won't even let me focus it.

Eh, no. I'm not sure what that would even feel like.


Edit: WAIT, no, I have misophonia, that's definitely hyperfocus, but to my detriment. I couldn't go back to school right now if I wanted to because the constant gum chewing and sniffling the other students got up to drove me into unbearable rage. I had to wear earplugs to class to graduate because we had mandatory attendance. I can't listen to NPR because the smacking, sucking sounds the hosts make as they talk make me so angry I want to drive off the road into a building. Of course, misophonia wasn't widely recognized or respected so I was just "crazy" or "too sensitive" or whatever.

Dr. Red Ranger fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Jul 22, 2020

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Dr. Red Ranger posted:

Buddy, they won't even let me focus it.

Eh, no. I'm not sure what that would even feel like.


Edit: WAIT, no, I have misophonia, that's definitely hyperfocus, but to my detriment. I couldn't go back to school right now if I wanted to because the constant gum chewing and sniffling the other students got up to drove me into unbearable rage. I had to wear earplugs to class to graduate because we had mandatory attendance. I can't listen to NPR because the smacking, sucking sounds the hosts make as they talk make me so angry I want to drive off the road into a building. Of course, misophonia wasn't widely recognized or respected so I was just "crazy" or "too sensitive" or whatever.

Misophonia is a common comorbidity with neurodevelopmental disorders, particularly ADHD and autism spectrum disorder.

The idea of hyperfocus is a complicated one where I kind of go back and forth between thinking of it as just a failure of attention prioritization due to executive functioning impairment and being it's own thing, and there is some research suggesting ADHD can affect the basal ganglia, which plays a role in regulating perseveration and obsessiveness.

Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Jul 22, 2020

Dr. Red Ranger
Nov 9, 2011



Nap Ghost

Mechafunkzilla posted:

Misophonia is a common comorbidity with neurodevelopmental disorders, particularly ADHD and autism spectrum disorder.



On one hand, that would explain a few things. On the other, knowing that I've potentially been struggling with life: hard mode well into adulthood doesn't make me feel much better about it.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Dr. Red Ranger posted:

On one hand, that would explain a few things. On the other, knowing that I've potentially been struggling with life: hard mode well into adulthood doesn't make me feel much better about it.

FWIW, you probably aren't on the spectrum. Though there is some interesting/tricky stuff around differential diagnosis for ADHD and ASD. Like with social cues for instance, people with either disorder can struggle with them, but for completely different reasons (with ASD, it's a failure of comprehension/recognition; with ADHD, the person knows perfectly well what a cue means, but their brain is bad at noticing it and bringing it to their awareness.)

knox_harrington
Feb 18, 2011

Running no point.

Dr. Red Ranger posted:

On one hand, that would explain a few things. On the other, knowing that I've potentially been struggling with life: hard mode well into adulthood doesn't make me feel much better about it.

It cuts both ways, very annoying to realise you've been playing on hard mode and could/should have been helped. On the other hand, understanding what the problem is, and more specifically the situations you struggle with is a real help.

I have misophonia as well and have had real difficulties with open plan offices. Basically my brain can't help but pay attention to noises and especially talking. I need noise cancelling / isolating headphones or earphones otherwise I really struggle to focus.

The drugs massively help, I started with Vyvanse but couldn't sleep so asked for immediate release dex and the doc had no problem with that.

I've recommended it before but there's a trick for time management in the Adult ADHD Handbook that I really like. You have an ongoing Master To-Do List which is just a list of everything you are supposed to get on with,like I guess everyone has. Each day you then write down on paper a few things off the list into a plan, and also your meetings and whatever.

The act of writing them out just seems to load them into my brain, and it requires you to make a realistic assessment of how long each thing will take. I don't set a very challenging amount of tasks every day and stay on top of my workload many times better than I did before.

BoneMonkey
Jul 25, 2008

I am happy for you.



Mechafunkzilla posted:

FWIW, you probably aren't on the spectrum. Though there is some interesting/tricky stuff around differential diagnosis for ADHD and ASD. Like with social cues for instance, people with either disorder can struggle with them, but for completely different reasons (with ASD, it's a failure of comprehension/recognition; with ADHD, the person knows perfectly well what a cue means, but their brain is bad at noticing it and bringing it to their awareness.)

This is a really good post. I was thinking about if I had ASD the other month, but yeah I totally get social queues when I stop and think about them. But in day to day life my brain thinks they are dumb and stupid (which they are) so skips right over them and lands me in hot water.

Quorum
Sep 24, 2014

REMIND ME AGAIN HOW THE LITTLE HORSE-SHAPED ONES MOVE?


Yeah, ADHD and ASD are fun because they are at the same time common misdiagnoses of each other and common comorbidities of each other. Unpicking the subtle way each can resemble the other, and the subtle ways having both can create its own different picture, is extremely complicated and is a thing the field is still working on trying to pin down. For me, what I've noticed is that my ADHD in some ways masked my ASD symptoms; it's very difficult to notice a deep-seated aversion to change or alteration to routine when your brain makes it hard to build routines and habits in the first place, for example! To make matters worse, I'd basically spent my entire young adult and adult life building coping strategies to the degree that I was getting along, but at the cost of tremendous cognitive and emotional stress.

artsy fartsy
May 9, 2014

You'll be ahead instead of behind. Hello!

Mechafunkzilla posted:

...with ADHD, the person knows perfectly well what a cue means, but their brain is bad at noticing it and bringing it to their awareness.)

Huh. Well that explains a few things.

I had to stop taking my dexmethylphenidate because I started getting severe heart palpitations. They weren't exactly painful, but really distracting--like having the hiccups all day long.

I got a new job. The 8-5 structure is really good for me (I was really struggling to get anything done as a freelancer) and there's a lot of physical work involved which helps my brain tremendously, and a lot of variety in my day-to-day tasks. I love this job, but I've loved a lot of jobs for a while and I have this always-present sense of dread gnawing away at me that the newness is going to wear off and I'm going to get burned out and horribly depressed because that's what always happens after about 2 years and I'm the only one in my household getting a paycheck right now and I can't stop obsessing over the fact that at some point I'm going to be absolutely loving miserable and the happiness I'm feeling now is fake and temporary and I feel like this is my last chance to have an actual career instead of a string of short-lived entry level jobs and I'm almost 40 and aauuuggghh

Just needed to get that out.

BoneMonkey
Jul 25, 2008

I am happy for you.



Haha oh man I know that one so well. loving blows being 35 and still at the bottom of the rung.

I have given up on the idea of ever having any kind professional career. It's real frustrating because I have a broad range of skills and talents I can draw, program, work with autistic kids and other sever disability, etc. But I'm always gonna be taking orders from someone who just focused down on one track all thier lives.

God if only I had had the meds 20 years ago. I would have a very different career now. But then everything else in my life is pretty awesome, I have a great wife, kid, I own a house have a car and my health. And with the meds basically giving me hyperfocus on command I would of 100% ended up being one of those 12 hours in the office dudes. So I think I would of probably been less happy...

Man that was a stream of consciousness, I gotta go clean snot off my kids face now.

Dr. Red Ranger
Nov 9, 2011



Nap Ghost

I just get jolted awake by vivid nightmares at 3am about how I wasted my life, will never meet any goals if I could even imagine them, and whatever potential I may have had being long gone, then have to spend the rest of my waking hours pretending that those concerns aren't ever present in the back of my mind in this failing fascist backsliding mess of a country.

Benagain
Oct 10, 2007

I WILL DERAIL ANY THREAD TO DEFEND PEOPLE WHO CHEAT ON THEIR SPOUSES BECAUSE I THINK THEY CAN DO NO WRONG. DO NOT LISTEN TO ME. I AM FUCKING STUPID.


Fun Shoe

Oh hey. That's the feeling that wakes me up at 3am, when i am sometimes able to crank out paperwork.

BoneMonkey
Jul 25, 2008

I am happy for you.



You guys need some absurdism in your lifes.

You as need to work with who you are, so in this case have a bunch of projects and goals (3 -5) and put them on a list. And when hyperfocus strikes you work on any of those goal you fancy. If you want to add a new project/goal then you must make a decision to abandon a previous project/goal and remove from the list.

The acts of abandoning and rotating between goals has really helped me stay heading in a general direction of vaguely finishing things.

I have been working on the same two projects for two years now and have made progress on both.

Also you can't (no one can) hyperfocus all the time. So must also factor in some gently caress about time into your life as well. We are burst workers. So work in bursts.

Also I think this is a thing for everyone, not just broke brains like us. But I really starting to think just like food there are unhealthy ideas. One negative news headline by itself is probably gonna be fine. But a 1000 headlines is gonna gently caress you up. I donno, but I've been much happier in life since I've been very careful about how much news and opinions I consume.

/Rambling shower post.

Hypnolobster
Apr 12, 2007

What this sausage party needs is a big dollop of ketchup! Too bad I didn't make any.


I've basically built my entire life around projects-catharsis. I'm insanely driven on projects, have dozens of hobbies (not a strong enough word) and I've built my work life to mirror that. I can't even begin to imagine how I would cope if part of that stopped working. Everything I do is in a constant state of flux and fascinated interest and I'm all over the place, and it works by design.
Took a decade to figure it out, but it works.
I also have zero availability for relationships as a result because I can't imagine sacrificing my own freedom for another person, but again, sorta designed my life around that. Maybe not a great idea but I don't have any issues with that.

e: Echoing the avoiding unhealthy ideas, which I possibly take to an unhealthy level. I have zero urge for confrontation, hate being angry or upset. I like defending ideas and working through tangible issues, but I stay far as hell from strong emotion and direct conflict with people about the usual politics/related issues. I work to avoid living in a bubble, but I know I have a hard limit and I follow it because it's just 100% bad otherwise.

Hypnolobster fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Jul 29, 2020

BoneMonkey
Jul 25, 2008

I am happy for you.



I will love my wife and kid to my dying breath, but there is a not insignificant part of me that is very jealous of your life style.

Inzombiac
Mar 19, 2007

PARTY ALL NIGHT

EAT BRAINS ALL DAY


So I finally got a new therapist but he's not able to write prescriptions.
I don't have a primary doctor since I switched insurance and no one is taking new patients.

My therapist was like, "Yeah dude you got mad ADD and anxiety plus a buncha depression all mixed up in your dumb head" and I can't get anyone to write me a prescription.

So I'm walking around, unable to focus on anything and feeling tremendous guilt about it.

BoneMonkey
Jul 25, 2008

I am happy for you.



That sucks dude.

Crosby B. Alfred
May 20, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 29 hours!


I realized today I've made a terrible ADHD mistake,

I've never thought about ADHD how impacts my relationships. Ugh.

Quorum
Sep 24, 2014

REMIND ME AGAIN HOW THE LITTLE HORSE-SHAPED ONES MOVE?


Gabriel S. posted:

I realized today I've made a terrible ADHD mistake,

I've never thought about ADHD how impacts my relationships. Ugh.

Oh boy yeah ADHD is a real hoot in the relationship game, that sucks friend.

Corte
Jun 28, 2005


I was diagnosed with "Adult ADD" in my early 20s while attending university. I have tried a number of medications throughout the intervening time which have helped but have never engaged with learning on the subject. Someone recommended the ADDitude podcast but at 300+ episodes it's a little daunting to dive into. There is A LOT of material on the subject and I honestly have no idea where to begin. I struggle with addictive behaviours and found Gabor Mate's book In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts helpful, he has one on ADD called Scattered Minds but it's 20 years-old, any read it?

Guess I'm just looking for some good starter literature, videos or whatever that won't be overwhelming. I'm easily overwhelmed.

CampingCarl
Apr 28, 2008






I have had adhd and anxiety for likely most of my life but wasn't diagnosed until after a couple years of college and it got so bad I couldn't even enter a classroom. It has been generally agreed by doctors that the problem is chemical and therapy wouldn't help much, which I agree with. However it is very likely I am resistant or hyper-metabolize a lot of the relevant drugs. It is hard to tell if anxiety meds ever have had an effect or I just got better with dealing with it and of the various adhd meds even XR feel like they last more than an hour or two and it is often hard to tell if I took it at all. It has been discovered that my family is at least resistant to painkillers (which was fun to find out in minor surgeries) and a sibling was on a high dosage for psych meds that their insurance ask for them to be tested for resistance which I understand can also be hereditary. My doctor is reluctant to go very high with stimulant dosage, for example past 54mg(I think?) concerta.

In general I am having a hard time concentrating on things, even things I really want to do. It may take me 4 hours to watch a 2 hour movie or have to stop playing a game after only 5-10m and often have to constantly switch to something else the instant my mind gets bored. Short term memory is definitely a problem but I am especially bad with names, particularly of people even ones I have known for at least a year, I can tell you everything about them but not their name. I can't spend time to learn things I want to learn to advance in my career. I don't even know if I get hyperfocus or just times when things are less bad and I get the thing I was working on done.

All this is getting increasingly frustrating and very stressful. I sometimes have trouble sleeping and find it hard to decompress when I can't do activities I enjoy and just end up pacing. I think I am stress eating and only a couple meds ever had the appetite suppression side effect come up. I know each of anxiety and adhd can sometimes cause the other and I am sure the stress contributes heavily so it is even hard to give feedback on what direction to go. Anxiety meds and adhd meds can counteract too and I don't know what a stress/sleeping med would be, regular sleeping aids don't seem to do anything. I feel like I need to ask for something different than just keep incrementing stimulant dosage and then switching when it gets high and still doesn't work but I don't know what I should be asking my doctor for.

edit: I wrote this in between other things over the course of 2-3 hours because after more than a couple of sentences I got bored.
Current adhd med is 30mg generic adderall.

CampingCarl fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Aug 27, 2020

BoneMonkey
Jul 25, 2008

I am happy for you.



I'm on 54mg of concerta, but I get 72mg which I go up to if I need it on the day. (Ie a day with a lot of work and very little social interaction.)

I'm not sure what the problem with 54mg would be unless you have a heart or blood pressure problem?

I've been on 54mg pretty much every day for about 4 years and haven't noticed any real problems. If that helps at all.

It also seems like you might be expecting to much from yourself? Like you have ADHD and you might have to build your life around that somewhat. Like except that you are probably not going to be able to watch movies straight through. Except that you are bounce between things. Just try and have a rotation of things to bounce between, rather than a conga line of projects.

Feel what you need and try and satisfiy that need in a way that builds off past needs and activities. The name thing you are just hosed with. I have the same problem, I deal with it by calling everyone dude.

You are who you are, and the meds may bring out certain more useful sides of you, but they won't fix you. I didn't get anxiety much but I did skip straight to depression ever 6 weeks or so. And that's because my expectations of myself didn't meet the reality of myself. But even after the meds, it was the expectations that had to change. I cannot be who I am when I hyperfocus, all the time. That would be impossible, for anyone.

So tell me what you actually enjoy doing moment to moment? Tell me what you want from yourself? And tell me how you can make those two thing fit together. Even if it means wanting less from yourself.

Edit: man this was real steam of consciousness here, I'm running on 5 hour sleep, I hope it makes sense!

BoneMonkey fucked around with this message at 11:04 on Aug 27, 2020

Eediot Jedi
Dec 25, 2007

This is where I begin to speculate what being a
man of my word costs me



Corte posted:

I was diagnosed with "Adult ADD" in my early 20s while attending university. I have tried a number of medications throughout the intervening time which have helped but have never engaged with learning on the subject. Someone recommended the ADDitude podcast but at 300+ episodes it's a little daunting to dive into. There is A LOT of material on the subject and I honestly have no idea where to begin. I struggle with addictive behaviours and found Gabor Mate's book In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts helpful, he has one on ADD called Scattered Minds but it's 20 years-old, any read it?

Guess I'm just looking for some good starter literature, videos or whatever that won't be overwhelming. I'm easily overwhelmed.

I liked Barkley's book Taking Charge of Adult ADHD. I wouldn't really call it starter but he also has a series of (old now) lecture videos on youtube that were pretty good. Other people swear by Delivered from Distraction by Hallowell and Ratey, but personally I thought they were good for going "ADHD is a thing! You too could have it!" but absolutely sucked for "Ok what do I need to do about it?"

I scroll through ADDitude's podcast, ignoring something like 80% and just pick based on my own interest at the time. There's a good few on shame that I find very helpful when I'm deep in it and starting to wall myself off from life again. I'd listen to anything with Drs Nigg, Dodsen, Hallowell on it regardless of the topic though.

Corte
Jun 28, 2005


Knobb Manwich posted:

I liked Barkley's book Taking Charge of Adult ADHD. I wouldn't really call it starter but he also has a series of (old now) lecture videos on youtube that were pretty good. Other people swear by Delivered from Distraction by Hallowell and Ratey, but personally I thought they were good for going "ADHD is a thing! You too could have it!" but absolutely sucked for "Ok what do I need to do about it?"

I scroll through ADDitude's podcast, ignoring something like 80% and just pick based on my own interest at the time. There's a good few on shame that I find very helpful when I'm deep in it and starting to wall myself off from life again. I'd listen to anything with Drs Nigg, Dodsen, Hallowell on it regardless of the topic though.

This is really helpful, thank you!

YggiDee
Sep 12, 2007




Fallen Rib

HEY so it turns out that consuming vitamin C or citric acid within an hour of taking your meds completely fucks them up!! Many of you might already know this but I found out only 20 minutes ago that my morning orange juice habit has been an exercise in self-sabotage???

Some info here




The rest of the sheet

BoneMonkey
Jul 25, 2008

I am happy for you.



Haha yep, I have the same problem with multivitamins.

mfcrocker
Jan 31, 2004





Hot Rope Guy

Oof glad I'm on Vyvanse, I drink a lot of soda

Ayin
Jan 6, 2010

Have a great day.


Wow, good thing mine doesn't--



gently caress

that might explain some things.

also that line in the second pic, about how vitamins are often better absorbed while asleep, is that a thing? It would be more convenient to take my magnesium at bedtime, when I'm less likely to have taken tylenol/aspirin. Man, I didn't even think of that angle before. Thanks, your post was way more helpful than I anticipated when I started this post :B

...unrelatedly, I wanted to see what site that pdf you linked was from, so I retrieved the url out of the mess that tumblr makes out of links, went to the root and was greeted by a beautiful photograph, which Page Info revealed was a stock image being stored in large size, unedited and without watermarks. hell yea, mine now

Ayin fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Oct 13, 2020

YggiDee
Sep 12, 2007




Fallen Rib

I don't know how accurate all of that information is, but it seems to check out after a cursory Google and I knew if I investigated deeper I'd never get around to posting it

Yakiniku Teishoku
Mar 16, 2011

Peace On Egg


I donít know about the specifics but my doc told me to avoid orange juice and anything acidic for like an hour before/after meds, yeah.

Ayin
Jan 6, 2010

Have a great day.


Thanks YggiDee, I certainly understand the research rabbit-hole

I'm kinda concerned about this part--

quote:

If they are present in the small bowel at the same time
-- I'm on an extended-release formula, does that mean I shouldn't have *any* soda for the duration (8 hours)?

Oh well. I guess I'll just have to be judicious about choosing my drinks vs optimal focus.

Eediot Jedi
Dec 25, 2007

This is where I begin to speculate what being a
man of my word costs me



YggiDee posted:

I don't know how accurate all of that information is, but it seems to check out after a cursory Google and I knew if I investigated deeper I'd never get around to posting it

It's from a fairly well respected Dr Dodsen. I've heard him say some of it verbatim on podcasts.

hopeandjoy
Nov 28, 2014





I don't know specifically how it interacts with ADHD meds, but "don't take x medication with grapefruit juice" is advice we are taught to give to patients in nursing school. If the issue is citric acid, I can't see how orange juice wouldn't also affect meds.

Yakiniku Teishoku
Mar 16, 2011

Peace On Egg


hopeandjoy posted:

I don't know specifically how it interacts with ADHD meds, but "don't take x medication with grapefruit juice" is advice we are taught to give to patients in nursing school. If the issue is citric acid, I can't see how orange juice wouldn't also affect meds.

iirc grapefruit has an additional mechanism that makes it interact badly with meds beyond this

Eediot Jedi
Dec 25, 2007

This is where I begin to speculate what being a
man of my word costs me



Ayin posted:

Thanks YggiDee, I certainly understand the research rabbit-hole

I'm kinda concerned about this part--

-- I'm on an extended-release formula, does that mean I shouldn't have *any* soda for the duration (8 hours)?

Oh well. I guess I'll just have to be judicious about choosing my drinks vs optimal focus.

I'm on concerta and I had noticed I was sometimes struggling after lunch more than I used to. I did not connect that to the soft drink habit I'd developed. More testing is needed.

BoneMonkey
Jul 25, 2008

I am happy for you.



Ohh yeah I wonder if this is true for me as well? Good excuse to swear of soda.

knox_harrington
Feb 18, 2011

Running no point.

Yakiniku Teishoku posted:

iirc grapefruit has an additional mechanism that makes it interact badly with meds beyond this

Yes, grapefruit inhibits an enzyme that metabolises drugs before they get into your bloodstream (CYP3A4) so it can cause the blood concentration of some drugs to increase. That's different from what might be happening here though. The medical literature doesn't really support vitamin C or stomach acidity affecting amphetamine absorption from what I read, but that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't happening.

Placeholder
Sep 24, 2008


Grapefruit interactions are interesting and cool. Here's a pretty good pop-sci article https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/grapefruit-history-and-drug-interactions.

landgrabber
Sep 12, 2015

my tony sucks ass


is this kind of a general ADHD thread? could find one when I looked around in other sun forums

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BoneMonkey
Jul 25, 2008

I am happy for you.



Yeah I think it pretty much is.

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