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opie
Nov 28, 2000
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Oh boy, another ADD thread. Goons sure do love blabbing about their ADD.

Nevvy Z posted:

The worst is when I either fall asleep in class, not because I'm tired but because I just can't focus on the rambling, or when I'm trying to read and make no progress internet or no. Caffeine on its own doesn't even help me stay awake anymore, I have to go for things like Monster Coffee.

Any insight into this would be appreciated.
For this, unless I'm on meds the only thing that works for me is multitasking. In class it's hard to find something inconspicuous to do (or I dunno does everyone use laptops during lecture now), but I'd balance my checkbook or fill out paperwork or whatever. For stuff at home, I'd pick a turn-based game like Civ on the computer where I'm forced to wait for the AI to do something, and during that time do whatever it is I'm supposed be doing. It's not the most efficient use of time, but sometimes it's the only way I can get things done.

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opie
Nov 28, 2000
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Stofoleez posted:

Is this a common thing? I did the best I could to search without the search function and I checked the FAQ.
I'm not blaming you or anything, it just seems that there's a thread every other week or so, and even if the topic is somewhat specific, like "ask me what it's like to raise a kid with ADD", people will start self-diagnosing or just telling stories about their adult ADD and all the meds they're on, which doesn't have much to do with the purpose of the thread. It's more what the thread turns into, I guess.

It's also amazing how easy it is to just make an appointment with a psychologist and actually talk to a professional, yet so many people can't figure that part out. I guess it's easier to go to a million websites and make a bunch of posts and find people to let you try their ritalin, I dunno.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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Stofoleez posted:

I think a big part of the failure to get it treated is the nature of the disorder combined with the depiction it's gotten of being simply a lack of discipline or something that can be willed away. People are embarrassed at how weak medication makes them feel as a person (with a lot of disorders, probably), or they're terrified that it will take away their person-hood. They're embarrassed to admit they have a problem that is reserved for children or to be seen as trying to make excuses for their "choice" not to properly discipline their child or, if they're the child, to work as hard as everyone else.
I would agree except that the people I'm talking about who post in these threads seem to go to great lengths to convince themselves and everyone else on the internet that they do have ADD. And a lot of them will self-medicate, so I don't think taking medication is the issue either. I know it's a huge pain in the rear end to get off the computer and drive somewhere and talk to someone, but obviously a lot of us have done it. Still, that doesn't make us qualified to do anything but say "congratulations, go to the doctor" when someone asks for validation after rattling off all their symptoms. It might not even be ADD - could be hypothyroidism, a sleep disorder, whatever, I dunno, I'm not a doctor.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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I understand that health care is expensive if you don't have health insurance, but I think it would be worth it to pay out of pocket to fix something that has such a negative affect on your life. Especially if you're self-medicating with stuff like pot which isn't exactly cheap either. Anyway that's an argument for D&D too I guess.

I was uninsured in college when I was first diagnosed, and paid out of pocket and drove 2 hours round-trip to figure out why I kept falling asleep in my classes and couldn't get any of my projects done. Failing out of school and being unable to pay back my student loans was not an option. It would've been nice not to have to pay so much, especially since I was poor at the time, but it was worth it.

opie fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Sep 20, 2009

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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drumwolf posted:

Who did you see? A specialist, general doctor or a psychiatrist?
Psychiatrist. I can't remember many details since it was a long time ago and my memory is horrible anyway, but I don't think it was more than a couple hundred dollars and I was prescribed ritalin.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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TheTarrasque posted:

Fixed for you. Psychiatric care isn't often covered or not covered as much by many health insurance plans, nevermind pre-existing condition clauses and everything else. I think I might have some sort of problem, possibly an attentional problem, but I can't go get diagnosed because A) I have no health insurance and B) I can't afford the (minimum) $100/hr that any professional capable of diagnosing ADD/ADHD would charge. Oh, and also ADD/ADHD isn't the kinda thing that's taken care of in one single-hour office visit. Are you honestly surprised that people want to first look to a free source of information (Internet) rather than choosing between rent money and mental health?
I wasn't talking about the people who research ADD, but the ones who ask strangers from the internet to confirm their diagnosis. To me, $100 isn't a lot of money to at least get a diagnosis from a professional. It's not like a $10k hospital procedure. I did it when I was incredibly broke in college - I probably had to sell or pawn some stuff. A lot of people make choices when they spend their money and, especially people who do have ADD, tend to make stupid ones.

As I've said before, the symptoms of ADD can also indicate some other medical problem, so it's pretty stupid to diagnose yourself and then self-medicate. At least after that first visit you can know, and then decide how to treat it. Some shrinks will work with you - one of mine would write triple the prescription so I wouldn't have to go in or call for three months. Then each visit was like $100, so that's $400 a year. I could easily spend that in a month on stupid poo poo when I'm feeling impulsive.

I dunno, it seems like people would rather complain about the health care system (I admit it's awful) and prove their point than just suck it up and pay the money. It's one thing when you're looking at thousands of dollars on a single doctor visit, but $100 or even $200 a month for something than can have a huge positive change in your life doesn't seem like such a horrible deal. And when you get treated, you may find that you end up with a ton of extra money anyway.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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Stofoleez posted:

Of course, the problem here is that a person with ADHD doesn't make the sorts of decisions that go into proactive medical care that you're talking about. Or, if we do, our follow-through is sporadic at best. If a person can easily apply herself, get and hold down a job that allows her to get psychiatric treatment and then pursue it with dedication, I don't think that person would need it - at least not for ADHD. Along those same lines, the sort of person who stands a chance of sucking it up and meticulously budgeting 100-200 dollars out of their monthly expenses and sticking to that budget probably doesn't have ADHD in the first place, or if they do they've learned to live with it and/or it's so mild that it doesn't interfere with their life.
Surely all of us who have been diagnosed and had treatment actually do have ADD and not just mild cases (my last shrink said I had a severe case of inattentive type). I understand it's a problem but we managed to overcome it. I'm trying to explain that it isn't as hard as it seems, and it can be done. I admit that my follow-through isn't good, but at least I know what the problem is and how to get help during the times when I really can't cope. Except when I got knocked up and couldn't take meds, and then working sucked really bad. Thankfully I'm a programmer and being lovely at my company is just par for the course.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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RightedBalance posted:

So, what would one do if they think they might have ADHD but don't have any health insurance?
Pay full price for a doctor.

Or you can read books like Driven to Distraction for coping tips.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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Hobo Tickler posted:

First of all : Hasn't anyone here had bad experiences using Adderall / whatever?
I hate Adderall because I like to sleep. It wasn't a problem with any other medication.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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hello internet posted:

My doctor tried to pawn off straterra on me when I was younger and it was literally the worst thing I have ever taken. I couldn't eat for 4 days nor could I piss.
I stopped taking straterra because I couldn't piss. It also made me feel foggy.

I also have the issue where I need too many details to get things done on time. If I have a question at work, I will do everything I can to find the answer myself before I ask, and by the time I'm done I don't want to ask because I feel like my boss will wonder what the hell I was doing in the meantime. Or if I have to answer someone, I will gather so many details that it takes forever, and cuts into the time I need to spend on other things. But in that case at least people appreciate my thoroughness, I guess. The communication at my company really sucks, so I'm always guessing at what people really mean, and always paranoid that I'm going to guess wrong and look like an idiot. I'm having a ton of trouble at work right now, like I'll estimate something, but miss some detail that ends up being huge, and instead of reporting it to my boss, I just work on my own time to make up for it. So I'm constantly scrambling. And I can't take medication right now, not that it ever had the best effect anyway.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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Haine posted:

Okay, I just want to pop in here and say something: gently caress you people and your bikes, now I want to ride bikes but it's 3:30 in the morning and raining and I don't own a bike anyway so I can't!! aaah bikes

Anyway, reading through some of this thread has made me realize that a lot of the stupid stuff I do might be more related to my ADHD than I thought. I think it may be time to look into getting back on meds, now.
I think the stupid BIKES!! and CATDRUGS!! poo poo is more of a goon thing than ADD thing. Otherwise I'm going to see doctors until one of them diagnoses me with something else. Good grief.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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Qu Appelle posted:

yet is misunderstood by the vast majority of the population.
To be honest I don't think this thread does much to challenge those misconceptions. They say that young girls often don't get diagnosed because they're not disruptive and yell about bikes all the time, but still struggle quietly with paying attention and other things. I wasn't diagnosed until I was 20 or so, and up until then I just figured this was how I was and I preferred not to discuss it much because instead of having a special disorder people would think I was just lazy. Plus there wasn't the internet such as it is back then. I had no choice but to suck it up and cope, as hard as it was.

So it seems maybe I'm a little of column B - I would prefer to take meds but can cope without them, and this thread is a lot of column C - "I did\didn't do something today and it was totally because of my meds\ADD.".

Anyway, I guess if this thread helps, great. Maybe I'm just too old to get it anymore. But if it turns out my kid has ADD she will be forbidden from saying the word "bike" because goddamn that is the worst joke.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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Tab8715 posted:

Could someone list a few of these they actually use and work?
1. Multitasking. I do this at work, but I avoid things like the forums and chatrooms and games that will distract me too much. For example, I will change some code and compile it. While it compiles, I read the local news for a minute or two.
2. Have serious motivation to not screw up really bad. The consequences of not watching the baby in the tub or losing my job would be horrible. Sometimes I have to work half the night because I couldn't get everything done.
3. Try to deal with things immediately so they don't pile up. My husband constantly gets on my case about this and while sometimes I wish he would just back off, it does keep the mail from piling up.
4. Outlook reminders.
5. Moving several times. This has helped me not want to buy anything ever again and has saved me lots of money, and helps me get rid of old poo poo because I don't want to move that test from college I got a C on for the 10th time.

The house is a mess, I look like I just rolled out of bed most of the time, and my productivity at work isn't the greatest. I have no life because I devote most of my energy just to keeping up with the kid and work. It is especially hard not being able to take meds or drink coffee or beer. But I think I'm doing pretty well, and I know it won't be forever.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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Yet you jumped on my case for being uptight because I'm sick of the Bikes! poo poo. I don't tell people I have ADD if I care about their opinion of me, because I don't want them to think I'm a spazzy goofball. Instead I try to act as normal as possible and if I do something related to my ADD, I apologize and move on. It's hard a lot of the time, but no one is perfect, mental condition or not.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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2508084 posted:

You're still uptight though
Well now you've gone and hurt my feelings.

But anyway, another reason I don't generally tell people I have ADD is that I feel like it will lower expectations, and therefore lower my motivation to get things done. The people I have told either think they also have ADD and\or want some of my meds.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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TheGopher posted:

I called you uptight because you said you were going to bar your daughter from ever making a joke about bikes, as well as disparage the people who posted in this topic and who find it therapeutic.
You seriously think I would ban her from talking about bikes? She's 19 months old and already yells "bikes!" whenever we walk past them in the garage. She is very excited about everything and I encourage that. I was just making a point that it's a seriously old joke that most people with ADD should be tired of by now. If it's really therapeutic...I guess I don't see why I should blame anyone for thinking that's how people with ADD are if that's actually how they are. While I've been told by several shrinks that I have a "severe" case of inattentive-type ADD, I personally don't want people to have that opinion of me.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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cloudstrife2993 posted:

People 'round these parts were upset because you dismissed the whole bikes thing as "HURRR ADD WANNA RIDE BIKES??!" when actually bike riding is extremely therapeutic for a large percentage of ADD individuals. It's interesting that you, as someone with ADD, would step up with such an outright and sudden statement of distaste toward the activity. It seems like you are somehow trying to be an ADD apologist, like "whoa, *I'm* not like those guys with their bikes. Gosh they are so annoying. No sir, I'm just a normal person."
I never said anything against actually going out and riding bikes. I used to be into it and even spent a ton of money on a nice bike but I have no time or energy for it now. But sitting at a computer posting "BIKES!" is not the same as riding a bike. If it was SPEED! instead of bikes, I'd feel the same way even though I know drugs are an effective treatment. It's the "Oh I am acting like I have something super important to say so here it...BIKES!" gag that I was talking about. It's just one of my pet peeves and there's no reason to feel all butthurt about it. Obviously everyone else thinks it's a great joke.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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TheBigBad posted:

Do you realize you're being really defensive and uptight. I would prescribe that you take a bike ride, immediately.
Really, because I thought most other people had a defensive and uptight reaction to what was a fairly innocuous comment. I hear people at work say stuff like "if I hear the word 'synergy' one more time I'm gonna punch someone" but no one actually believes they're going to punch anybody, or that the person is even that outraged over corporate buzzwords (although most other people agree that buzzwords like that are annoying, except senior managers I suppose). I only brought it up again today because someone else mentioned being annoyed by it and I wondered if everyone just really misunderstood what I was saying or what. Honestly I'm confused that anyone cared so much about it in the first place since I rarely post in this thread (no trips to report), but I guess it's a break from the normal discussion about caffeine and adderall so everyone jumped on it.

Also I think it's raining and my bike is broken so there will be no riding for me. I'd rather do puzzles and play games anyway. That's what I do to calm my brain and give it a focus.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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Slo-Tek posted:

I think a strong argument could be made that the educational/work system generally requires more focus than the average person can muster up unmedicated. Which is why people spend 16$ a day on caffinated beverages. Self-medication for all.
It seems like the people who drink the most caffeine also have very poor sleep habits. Or at one point they did (probably in school), and developed a dependency or tolerance to caffeine. Since I can't have any, I go to bed very early so I'll get enough, despite a huge temptation to stay up and play video games.

As for programming and math, I'm a programmer and use algebra frequently. Even without trying to solve an equation, there's a lot of logic there. I see a lot of programmers not understanding it and some really ugly code that is difficult to unravel, especially for me when I can only focus on it for minutes at a time. I don't know how they can screw up things like conditional statements so bad. The good news is that most programming is not at the level of graphics rendering or gaming (or there's already a function for that), so all the calculus and physics required for a programming degree is generally not applicable. And most programmers I've seen are lazy and not going to waste time on effeciency or big-O. Or anything resembling readable code. Basically they just plug poo poo in until it "works" even if it's broken half the system.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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There is far more to programming than math but I think it would be very difficult for someone who struggles with algebra. Data structures, grammars, digital logic, etc have far more difficult concepts in my opinion. Even the simpler languages require an understanding of objects and relationships and scope.

Anyway writing code for fun or beginner classes is much, much different than working on a large project with several other people. I'm not trying to discourage anyone since even I managed to make a career out of it and am far from a genius, but I just see so much crappy code because someone managed to learn one language and each time they do anything beyond that it's a big disaster because they don't understand any other concepts. But as bad as some of them are they do have jobs, so the hardest part is really just getting the degree.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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Some of you are so uptight.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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TheGopher posted:

You're still pretty butthurt about that comment huh?
No actually it was a joke. To lighten the mood. Because the water discussion is one of the most ridiculous things I've seen all month.

Seriously though you should lighten up. I see it's ok for you to call me uptight because I'm tired of a joke I've been hearing for years, but you can go on tirades about someone's water preference or whatever and everyone else is the antagonizer.

Personally I will do things that seem more difficult because in the short term it seems like a time-saver, or it's just easier and lets me focus on something else. Once I had to work on a something downstairs and a laptop upstairs at the same time, and instead of moving the laptop downstairs, I kept running up and down the stairs because I thought I was almost done with the problem. People do things in different ways and as long as the job is getting done and not affecting anyone else, it doesn't really matter if it's the most efficient way.

Also I drink water straight from the tap. That's my reward for living where water bills are higher than anywhere else.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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Two things.

Why do you think he would only be affected by ADD at school, but not home? Just curious because I have a kid and wonder about the behavior differences.

Why does intelligence have anything to do with ADD? Almost everyone who claims to have ADD also claims to have superior intelligence. It could just be a thing on this forum I guess, but it seems like a lot of people can't talk about their or their kid's ADD without also pointing out their genius potential. It's almost as if it's become a diagnostic criterium. While it might be a nice stereotype, it's not always true.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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Kylra posted:

This could just be because those that aren't as intelligent don't recognize it and thus never get treated for it. Also, part of ADHD is about performance variance across a diverse variety of tasks within different "spheres" (home/work/school/general social). People who are generally less intelligent are probably less likely to have as much variance imposed from ADHD impairment to be noticed for a possible diagnosis. While I wouldn't say it's a diagnostic criterion itself, it makes things more pronounced and noticeable.
So maybe it helps when considering a diagnosis, but in the cases I'm talking about the people have already been diagnosed. So qualifying the ADD diagnosis with "but I'm (or my kid is) actually brilliant" adds nothing and has nothing to do with the disorder. It doesn't help people who may not be potential nuclear physicists but still struggle with everyday tasks.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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It should go in the goon doctor forum in my opinion. The vast majority of people in this thread have it and ask specific questions about medications and stuff, and I don't see how most of it is of interest to the general community.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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Chin Strap posted:

Once again though, this is partly about general awareness of the condition rather than solely people who have been diagnosed with having it.
If I thought I had a medical or mental problem\question I probably would go into the goon doctor forum if there was some reason I couldn't ask a real doctor. The problem with ADD is that most people have at least one symptom of it at any given time. A lot of people seem to like to self-diagnose and convince themselves they have a condition before they go to the doctor, even though it could be a number of other problems.

At what point does a medical\mental condition warrant a thread in ask\tell versus the goon doctor? Should there be a thread on depression, bipolar, IBS, or allergies? In my opinion those aren't rare or interesting enough to people who don't deal with them. The pregnancy and knocked up threads would also be better in the goon doctor.

I dunno I understand that people want as many people to read their posts as possible, but there's a reason why they started making subforums, even if some of them are less popular than others.

Or you could also ask a moderator.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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I didn't know much about ADD when I was diagnosed at around age 19, so I had no opinion about it either way. I was having trouble and looked for help, rather than waiting to stumble across a random explanation. First I went to the school nurse, but she just kind of shrugged and said I have anxiety, and gave me meds that didn't help. So I went to a shrink, who said I have ADD and gave me meds that kind of helped.

I don't really care where this thread goes, I was just giving my opinion that it's more of a medical issue. Obviously I don't post in this thread nearly as much as everyone else. Today is an off day because I have to do a lot of research about manifest files in C++ projects. Ironically, if I hadn't been participating in this thread about ADD my ADD might not have gotten in the way of my progress.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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pixie delights posted:

So I'm a newcomer to this thread. I did my best to skim through all the other pages, so if this has already been brought up, I apologize.

I saw a lot of people were saying they wished they'd been diagnosed earlier in life. I kind of have the opposite wish. I wish they would have waited longer.
I was diagnosed at around 19 or so, when I was two years into college. Up until that point I could manage, although it was really hard and there were a couple of bad years in there. Ever since I was pretty young I wanted to program video games, so I did what I could to reach that goal. I knew math was important, but history, not so much. So when I could, I would take all easy classes for everything but math and science, even though technically I was qualified for the more advanced ones. I didn't know anything about ADD at that point but I knew my limitations and what I wanted to focus on.

When I started failing and dropping required college classes, I realized I had to fix the problem because my ways of coping were not enough. I couldn't afford to take meds regularly, so it was still a big struggle after I was diagnosed. Eventually I managed to graduate, and when I got a job with benefits I started seeing shrinks and getting meds.

Now that I've been off meds for 2 or 3 years, I'm grateful that I can still cope. My life is chaotic, so I just try to focus on what's the most important and let the other things go. Interestingly enough, having a kid seems to work well with ADD. I have pretty much no time for anything but her and work. It's kind of an excuse to have a messy house, look constantly disheveled, and not do stuff that will get me into trouble.

But I hate my job, and the only reason I stay is because of my impending maternity leave and inability to take meds. Somehow, between being pregnant and having ADD, I'm still one of the most competent people on my team. I really want to try out some other company, but I'm afraid of working with people smarter than me, especially unmedicated.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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My dentist pointed out the ridges on my tongue, and said I'm probably stressed and pushing it up against my teeth a lot. I also grind my teeth at night and have a mouth guard for that. I'm pretty convinced I have some kind of sleep problem that is causing my ADD symptoms, but getting a sleep study done has been inconvenient. I believe I am going straight to REM sleep and waking up before I get to the deep sleep phase. But I don't know how often that happens, just that I can have a long-seeming dream and then wake up and see that I've been asleep for 15 minutes.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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The problem I have with being a code monkey is not the actual coding, although sometimes I will skim through a bug report and make an assumption about what the problem is without having all the details. Like the other day when someone reported that the system wouldn't let them insert large records into the database. Someone else in the thread commented about how there must be a limit in the code, so I did a bunch of research and then determined the network/server must be timing out or disconnecting when they tried to insert the record. If I had read the whole item, I would've seen that the error message did indeed say that the connection was broken at some point during the insert, which would've saved me some time.

As for coding, for me that's generally the easy part. The hard part is everything else. Design docs, code reviews, updating all the related systems, database scripts, QA docs...it's very easy to mess up or forget something in the process. Seems like other people on my team have the opposite issue. Bad at coding, but they remember the other little pieces even if it's the absolute bare minimum.

It'll be interesting to see if I'm any better about it when I go back on the meds, which I'm guessing will be about a year from now. I'm generally good at doing things when I remember to do them, but it's just stressful knowing I can do an awesome job at everything else and gently caress up one thing and that's what people notice.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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I've been taking concerta for a while, and it barely keeps me awake during the day and otherwise doesn't do anything. If I don't take it, all I want to do is eat and sleep. So my doctor prescribed me provigil, and Vyvanse in case they wouldn't give me the provigil without a narcolepsy diagnosis (which has not been ruled out). Vyvanse works better than concerta but i can't sleep for the first few days of taking it even if I only take a couple days' break.
So i took the provigil today and it's doing jack and poo poo. I have so much I want to do before my vacation and was so hopeful after reading all the glowing provigil reviews but it's clearly going to be another poo poo day of barely accomplishing anything. The bullshit meetings I have to attend don't help either.
Anyway, add sucks.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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I did an overnight sleep study and ruled out sleep apnea, but they never followed up with the daytime test. It was basically "welp, you're already being treated for add and it's the same as narcolepsy so"
I got a Fitbit Alta to track my sleep and it shows very little deep sleep. My plan was to go off the stimulants while I'm on vacation and try to get a baseline but I may end up needing to work.

opie
Nov 28, 2000
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Just dump a bunch of poo poo in an instant pot. It's pretty easy to clean too.

I tried quitting Vyvanse and on the 5th day I was falling asleep at work. There is something not right and i can't simply say "burnout" and quit my job. I also take Zoloft and maybe it just works too well. I like not giving so much of a poo poo about work but I do want to give a poo poo about the better things in life. It's like all I want to do is get laid off so I can take a drat break, but something won't let me get to that point. And I fight it with meds and alcohol. You know you're hosed up when you wish you had a real disability to excuse yourself from responsibilities but you don't and you just torture yourself knowing you're wasting potential others would kill to have.

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opie
Nov 28, 2000
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Yeah, apparently my last therapist killed herself.

In other news, I was doing some testing on a very expensive AWS instance last week and apparently forgot to shut it down. I had to use my own account because work requires TFA and it has to go to my cell phone which gets no service in the office, so I tried using my VoIP phone which doesn't work at all and IT requires written permission from my manager to change it back, who was on vacation.
I don't know if it's better or worse that it's on my bill because I'd get in deep poo poo if work saw it.

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